Looking to trade info/instruction/trips

[Pete Robbins]

I am a longtime tournament bass angler with the glitter boat and garage full of tackle to prove it. Despite the fact that I work in the fishing industry, I feared the fly rod and strategically avoided it for 30+ years. That changed on a recent trip to Montana, where my wife and I floated the Bitterroot for two days and fell in love with the sport.

While I had great mentors in the bass fishing arena, I don't know where to start when it comes to fly fishing. Would love to become reasonably proficient in time to take another trip out west next year and would appreciate any thoughts on the best way to get there, whether that be through casting lessons, a fishing club, etc. Also willing to trade bass fishing trips for trout instruction. In addition to local options, I work for an outfitter on the best bass lake in Mexico and have some flexibility to trade out trips there.

Pete Robbins

Vienna

[Jeffrey Silvan]

Hey Pete - my best suggestion would be to just search, search, and search - especially on this forum for local trout tips - but more importantly, swing by the local fly shops in the area and just chat with the staff. I'm no trout expert by any means, but I know enough to get by and catch fish, so I'd be happy to help you out sometime.

Jeff

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[Scott Stankus]

Pete - first, keep an eye out for posts from John Bilotta regarding the FREE casting sessions that he is gracious enough to offer at Fletcher's periodically. He mostly focuses on 2-handed rods, but he's happy to work with single handed rods as well. I think he also offers private lessons at a reasonable rate, but you'd have to ask him about that. 

Also, Orvis offers casting classes (the 101 is free, I think there's a cost for the 201). Some of hte Orvis guys should be able to provide more info on that. 

And, as Jeff said, search the forums and get out there and fish! 

--Scott

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Pete Robbins <fishyw...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Pete Robbins]

Thanks for the quick responses. What are some of the local shops in addition to Orvis?

[Jeffrey Silvan]

Urban Angler in Alexandria.

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Pete Robbins <fishyw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the quick responses. What are some of the local shops in addition to Orvis?

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[Scott Stankus]

Urban Angler in Alexandria. 

On Mon, Oct 5, 2015 at 10:58 AM, Pete Robbins <fishyw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the quick responses. What are some of the local shops in addition to Orvis?

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[Yambag Nelson]

Best advice is to get out and fish.  Hiring a guide can speed up the curve, but nothing beats just getting out there and doing it.  Odds are you are a fishy enough guy that you will pick it up quickly. 

[Rob Snowhite]

Stop by Orvis Tysons Corner before 2pm tomorrow or Wednesday. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 5, 2015, at 10:58 AM, Pete Robbins <fishyw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the quick responses. What are some of the local shops in addition to Orvis?

[Pete Robbins]

Unfortunately I'll be downtown Tuesday and Wednesday.

[namfos]

Unfortunately there are no fly shops downtown either. Come to the Beer Tie on Monday if you can. You'll at least get to put faces to the names here. And you'll be able to get an earful about fly fishing for other species in addition to trout.

 

Mark

[TurbineBlade]

Remember too that an important part of fishing is the trading of tips and stories about things that are extremely unlikely to have ever happened! 

Other tips for transitioning to fly fishing:

Indicators are actually bobbers

Woolly buggers are actually marabou jigs, only they weigh a little less (I tie them on jigheads now, so mine are heavy)

Clouser minnows (as tied by most people) are essentially bucktail jigs

A popper is a popper

Flies with spinners do exist, but they're ridiculously hard to cast in the larger sizes......stick with UL spin tackle for "mechanical" lures IMO

If you can put lures into the right place and you know how to work them the way fish like, you'll have no problems using fly tackle to catch fish right away.  I liked UL spin tackle and tube jigs, and working small flies was very similar to me when I started.  It's the casting you'll have to work on a bit to get good consistency doing. 

I feel like you can do things with a lure/fly with a fly rod that are more "fishy" than what you can do with spin/bait tackle, but that's just my opinion. 

Then if you venture more into "trout fishing", you'll get into where the 2 tackle types seem to diverge a lot more.....with slack line presentations, mending a drift, roll casting to keep a dry from getting wet, etc. 

Trout fishing with fly tackle is wonderful, and you can also catch a lot of other species too.  I suggest you do it all!  ;)

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

I forgot 2 handed fly rods (spey)! 

If you've ever stood at the edge of a river and thought "I'd really love casting this pipe wrench 70' into that current, I have no concerns whatever for delicacy but I will not use conventional tackle to do it!" then you may want to venture into the 2-handed world. 

[Pete Robbins]

Thanks Gene. After a couple decades of bass-obsession, I've transitioned nicely into trying to do it all -- in recent years we've taken trips to the Amazon for peacock bass (2x), Venice for redfish, now Montana for trout. 

Frankly, the trout fishing was the most fun I'd had in a long time because I was so out of my element, not worried about living up to any preconceived standards. I had no idea whether the little cutthroats we caught were good fish or not, whether the equipment I was using was high quality or not, etc. Of course, my casting is miserable -- I have a tendency to try to overpower things and to flex my wrist on the cast, and I'm unaware of much of the terminology. At the same time, as you implied, past fishing experience was a benefit in terms of reading current and playing fish. 

The best thing about this very short foray into this alien (to me) world is how nice everyone has been. All of the fly shops were very welcoming and eager to share their knowledge.

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[TurbineBlade]

We do have nice folks around here -- we're lucky in that.  Casting takes a while to learn for sure, but don't kill yourself over it.  Do a little at a time and you'll start to get muscle memory for how to smoothly apply power, etc.

Some folks use a LOT of wrist in their cast and they cast quite well, so don't assume that just because some website or book says "look your wrist into your cuff" (or something) that you're "doing it wrong".  All that really matters is what your loops look like going back and forward.  To me anyway it's all about the loops, and less about how you use your body to make the loops. 

People in the club can help a lot with this -- I'm not a certified casting instructor, I just pretend like it sometimes.  John B. helped me when I basically first picked up a fly rod and he does clinics on Sundays sometimes.  Someone maybe already said that...?  Sorry to repeat. 

Gene

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[Bryan Lanier]

Re: Wrist lock. I used to cast pretending that my wrist didn't exist. Dan helped me discover that a little wrist flip at the end of the back and forward casts actually helps. It makes the acceleration much more pronounced. My casting has greatly improved using this technique.

Bryan

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[Bryan Lanier]

Wrist "flick" not flip. Sorry.

[Rob Snowhite]

Gene I'll throw a wrench at you good 

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[TurbineBlade]

That's what this sack of wrenches if for! 

I remember that movie. 

Gene

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[James Ovelmen]

My Dad originally taught me to never break my wrist and then once I learned the basics, he taught me the "power snap", basically breaking your wrist slightly. Once you learn the rules, you can start breaking them.

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[namfos]

Gene:

I still think you should blog. But after reading this, I think you should start doing stand up comedy at gatherings of 3 or more fisherpersons (that's you, Beth and whoever's willing to stick around ;-).)

Mark

[TurbineBlade]

Casting style interests me for sure.  There have been some good articles written about it to boot. 

This is a good one of a guy demonstrating both of the most common styles (front elbow vs. side elbow) -- http://midcurrent.com/techniques/casting-the-elements-of-style/

Gary Borger has an article about wrist casting -- http://www.garyborger.com/2012/11/24/modern-casting-i-wrist-casting/

Another proficient "wrist" caster is Ian Colin James.  Watch any video of him fishing on youtube and you'll see it right away. 

I use a fair amount of wrist, as evidence by my tendency to get wrist soreness when making long "SW" casts all day with an 8-weight. 

I think many people tend to teach newbies to use little or no wrist because many newbies may have a tendency to use far too much wrist, so the instructor is trying to compensate for that.  In practice though, I don't think style is really all that important. 

I use a side-elbow style with moderate wrist, but I tend to (like many if not most people) use a much more vertical roll cast to keep from having too much fly line set on the water at anchor. 

Reading books is great, but a lot of the "experts" are flat wrong about certain aspects of casting...which is surprising since they often have had their entire lifetimes to think about it. 

Gene

[Rob Snowhite]

Beer tie open mic? I'll buy this

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[Matthew Longley]

James hits it on the nose - learn the rules so you can break them.

I saw Lefty Kreh do a demo once, and he talked about keeping your elbow on a shelf, which he somewhat bizarrely demonstrates with an actual shelf in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xak_usK0i6E

After seeing him, I took a couple of outings and tried to stick strictly to the form he outlined in the demo (and in the video), and I found it really improved my casting. Not that I still use that form, or even think about it, but spending some time keeping to that strict form made me realize a bunch of things about my cast. I'd recommend it to a starting caster as a way to cut down the variables that affect your cast so you can work on making it better.

[TurbineBlade]

That's good Matt -- it's always nice when you try something out and it works for you.  I cast strongly in the side-elbow style, but that's main because I forced stuff I read from Lefty Kreh into my form when I started.  Honeslty, I wish I hadn't done that because it probably caused more harm than good. 

The "on the shelf" idea can be great for side-elbow casters, but he's completely out-to-lunch in trying to tell everyone to cast that way to avoid tailing loops, etc.  There are front-elbow casters who raise and lower their elbow on every single cast (varying with distance) who do just fine.  Watch Steve Rajeff, Mel Krieger, or Joan Wulff to name 3. 

Also the "principles" of having to move the end of the fly line before making the cast and the fly line moving in the direction of the rod tip are both principles only in the mind of Lefty Kreh.  They're easily debunked with a roll cast and a snap cast. 

Don't trust anyone telling you something -- just your loops ;). 

Gene

[Matthew Longley]

Definitely not telling anyone how to cast. Like I said, I found it a useful exercise. Kick boards are great, but I'm not telling anyone to swim a triathlon with one.

For what it's worth I have also found it's a really useful exercise to swing the fly line around my head. You know that "shadow casting" scene in THE MOVIE? The scene "purists" gripe about? I look like a terrible version of that. You can learn a lot about how the line and rod interact, and I've actually used some pretty wackadoodle movements to cast around stuff.

[John Bilotta]

My approach has been to learn a number of concepts from good, and a few not so good casting coaches and then over time develop a personal style.

 That said initially, when I teach casting, I will tell you to do something in a specific way because as a new student you don't know enough to have a personal style.

John

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[namfos]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. ;-)

Mark

[arthur noglak]

There are so many great teachings methods and instructors in this industry many of them frequent this forum. All instructors have their own teaching style. When I teach casting I try to speak only in thruths. Example: I never say "dont use your wrist to cast it wrong". If the a student is demonstrating a particular casting fault such as ,loop is to wide on The back cast and/or forward cast, I will disscuss casting arc and its relationship with loop shapes with the student. Once they understand the arc and loop shape im looking for I dont care how they get it done. Im perfectly ok with them using heavy wrist or casting on any plane they choose.

Art

[TurbineBlade]

Well said --

Gene

On Thursday, October 8, 2015 at 2:06:27 PM UTC-4, arthur noglak wrote:

[arthur noglak]

Wide loops are caused by a concave path of the rod tip not the amount of wrist you use in your casting stroke or the plan on witch you dicide to cast on. But it is much easier to tell a new student not to use the wrist, then get all bondage em and tie their wrist to the rod with a rondom string you have in your pocket and watch them flail around feeling like and idiot ha ha ha .

Art

[arthur noglak]

Please excuse me I had a typo above.

Concave tip path = tailing loops

Causes of tailing loops are.

miss aplication of power on the forward cast.

Miss aplication of power as a result of "creep" aslo on the forward cast.

Casting arch to narrow. This is extremely rare!

Improper trajectory change.

" back cast has to be low before the forward cast is high"

It still boils down to straight line tip path.

Convex tip path = wide loops

Again it all boils down to straight line tip path.

[TurbineBlade]

Art -- I think I agree with that just about 100%, only I shorten it to "caused by anything one can do which causes the rod to take a concave tip path".  

Like I mentioned, I've read some other explanations (like the "raising and lowering of the elbow") that are so obviously wrong that I can't understand how someone could actually put it into print.  

Gene