Difficult Run

[AChew]

Hey Guys,

I went hiking last week around Difficult Run and Great Falls. Does
anyone know if there are fish in the stream during warmer weather? I
parked in the Difficult Run parking lot off of Georgetown Pike less
than a mile SE of Old Dominion Drive. I hiked upstream a bit and it
looked like it could be promising once the water warms up.

Thanks,
Allen

[Rich]

Hello all; I thought it was time to stop lurking and jump in even
while the water's cold. Allen, I don't have a direct answer to your
question, and hope I'm not hijacking your thread but I just thought
I'd mention that when we moved here 4 years ago, my wife and I went to
the Great Falls National Park and I spoke with several Park Rangers.
I asked them if there were any fish in the waters either near the
falls, above the falls or below the falls and every one of them "spoke
with authority" when they said, "No ... nothing worth catching ...
just carp ..." For 2.5 years I rode my bicycle, up and down the
Potomac commuting between Alexandria and Rosslyn, seeing folks fishing
from the banks (some of them looked like they were dependent upon what
they caught so they could eat), but I never saw anyone catch anything
and I always thought there weren't any fish in the river. Imagine my
surprise when we met Dan and Bert at the Orvis store... I still don't
know if the Park Rangers were just clueless, or if they felt like they
were keeping a secret about something great. All this said, I'm
looking forward to responses to your question.

Regards,
Rich

[Dan Davala - Founder]

My favorite part of this whole thing is "Nothing worth catching, just
carp". Carp are one of the greatest game fish swimming in fresh water
for the fly rodder. Maybe they just want to discourage fishing around
the falls due to the obvious dangers and the number of drownings
they've experienced there. Use your discretion, be smart, be careful,
catch some fish!

Dan

[obassociates]

As we move into Spring, it might be a good idea for our ever growing group
to look at what might be some of the angling ethics and etiquette issues we
might encounter on the river.

Think about some of the good and not so good behavior we have seen out
there fishing or guiding. What are some of the things that we as a group can
try and instill along the river and what are some of the things we hope to
try and prevent?

I know there are pretty big crowds at times at Fletchers that can be
challenging. Also I am sure some anglers have experienced tight quarters in
other places along the river and other areas nearby.

If anyone is interested in learning more, a great read on the subject of
angling ethics is Rhea Toppings book, "Rod Rage."

The following is a shortened version of the FFF Code of Angling Ethics:

Fly anglers understand and obey laws and regulations associated with the
fishery.
Fly anglers believe fly fishing is a privilege and a responsibility.
Fly anglers conserve fisheries by limiting their catch.
Fly anglers do not judge fellow anglers and treat them as they would expect
to be treated.
Fly anglers respect the waters occupied by other anglers so that fish are
not disturbed
When fishing from a watercraft, fly anglers do not crowd other anglers or
craft or unnecessarily disturb the water.
Fly anglers respect other angling methods and promote this Code of Angling
Ethics to all anglers.
C Copyright by the Federation of Fly Fishers, Inc. 2002

John Bilotta
FFF CCI

[Scott S]

I just got back from a hike along Difficult Run as well (the Cross County Trail from Colvin Mill Rd to 193) and I was wondering about the fishing the whole time as well, so I thought I'd check the archives and I came across this old post. 

Allen - did you even get an answer to your question - either on here or through personal experience?

Anyone else have any experience fishing Difficult Run? If nothing else, it seems like it would provide an enjoyable and peaceful morning/afternoon of fishing!

--Scott

[Daniel R]

I used to go there until the trail was closed due to flooding...  I almost always went down to the outlet to the potomac and nearly always caught a catfish or two.  There are some surprising sized panfish in some of the pools in the creek though

--Scott

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[Rob Snowhite]

I grew up fishing it off hunter mill rd near Reston. Chilly water. Use to have brookies. It's a long and beautiful stream. Used to fish off birdshot in Reston. 

Sent from my iPod

--

[Charlie Gloeckner]

As I kid we used to get dropped off at georgetown pike bridge and fish our way to the potomac We would catch the small red eyed bass and catfish on spinning gear.  That was in the 1980 timeframe.  It was fun! 

--Scott

--

[Brendan]

Have heard rumors of trout in certain sections a long time ago.
Fairfax county put out a pretty thorough watershed study at one point
which might also be a good resource to check.

Not sure of the area Rob is talking about but the reproducing brown
trout population that once was rumored to inhabit the mid/lower
sections appears to have died off about 10 years ago. Curious why
they don't try turning it into a urban special reg/DH water. Looks
like it would be perfect for that and there's decent public access.

[John Riccio]

I fished Difficult Run last Summer/ Autumn with a friend.  We parked off of Rt7 near Carper's Farm Way/ Route 743 intersection and hiked up the trail about 1 mile.   We caught 2 or 3 small LMB and a ton of Bluegill on small poppers and wooly buggers.  Looks like there are deep pools that could hold larger fish.  I will likely make a longer hike to fish further upstream this spring.

-John

[Tom Moran]

Is a thread last posted in 6 years too long ago to be worth resurrecting?

Last Sunday I just had to get out so I grabbed my ultralight spinning rod and drove to where Vale Road crosses Difficult Run (5 minutes from home), and hiked downstream.  I probably fished for a total of 20 minutes (but walked over an hour round trip) but caught 11 fish in all.  7 redbreast sunnies, 1 green sunny, 1 largemouth bass, 1 river chub and a very courageous shiner of specific species unknown.  There were some fish in most pools though population for a stream of that size is fair at best.  The redbreast and bass were all around 5-6".  I had one bass about 12" chase the Panther Martin spinner and bump it but wasn't hooked.  

Next weekend I'm going to try to get out either Friday afternoon or Saturday morning with my 3 wt 6.5' flyrod and explore the Tamarack Park area, which is between the W&OD trail and the Dulles Toll Road.  It's a beefy park with a lot of public land and I'm looking forward to floating dries over the many roots and stick piles in most bends.  I also keep native fish in aquaria and the 5 species were fun to catch and see.  The river chub was really pretty.  I may throw a really small bead head fly to see if I can find more shiner species.  Satinfins exist in the stream and are gorgeous when in spawning tumescence (is that the right word?)

Has anyone tried that section before?  

[Andrew Sarcinello]

I'll be "that guy" and say the fish pictured is a creek chub, not river chub, but interesting post regardless.  I haven't fished the area you are thinking about trying, but a lot of the streams around there - especially Colvin Run below the lake - are absolutely loaded with sunnies.  Actually caught a warmouth there once, which was a species I'd never caught before - these little creeks can be a lot of fun.  I tried the part of Difficult Run once where it goes down the gorge to the river.  Didn't fish too much of that section but I didn't find many fish of any kind, so it's good to hear that fish are doing well upstream.

Interesting side note:  I recently read somewhere that one of the headwater branches of Difficult Run was the last place in Fairfax County to hold a self-sustaining population of brook trout.  I think they disappeared permanently sometime in the 1970's or 80s.

[Andrew Sarcinello]

To further clarify, creek chubs have a spot at the base of the dorsal fin like the one in the picture, river chubs do not.

[Tom Moran]

Andrew, I have no problem being corrected when needed!   I was basing the ID on a Fish of Fairfax County poster I stumbled upon, it just seemed a closer fit:   https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/publicworks/sites/publicworks/files/assets/documents/pdf/fishes-of-fairfax.pdf

I keep hearing anecdotes of warmouth but can't say for sure I've ever seen one.  I grew up in southern PG and caught some amazing and unique sunfish out of Henson Creek in the vicinity of Tucker Road Pond;  they had striking color bands and were thicker in the body than any other local known variety.  A classmate of mine who now guides on the Potomac said he stocked warmouth in the creek that he'd collected down south.  So who knows?  Hybrids?

Some years ago I found fish survey results for sections of Difficult Run, that would provide a baseline of known species and prevalence.   I could not find it Sunday after an hour of searching.  I was happy with 5 species in 20 minutes of casting last Sunday, ready to do more.

Odd you mention brook trout - I live on a small way upper tributary and ran into an older couple hiking in two weeks back, and the guy mentioned the rumored existence of brook trout there.  I'd previously never heard this said of Difficult Run.  I have seined a number of times and never saw one. I did discover a wonderful population of rosyside dace, a rare (in this area) brightly colored minnow, along with the very common blacknose dace, tessellated darter, and small creek chubs.  The upper stretches are fairly degraded from erosion, not sure they hold water cool enough in the summer for brookies.   I wish we had sustaining beaver populations as I think the streams would run fuller year round as beaver ponds replenish ground water.  

Here's a pic of the unidentified shiner.  

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[Tom Moran]

"To further clarify, creek chubs have a spot at the base of the dorsal fin like the one in the picture, river chubs do not. "

Gotcha.  The dorsal of the creek chub in the Fairfax poster is laying down so it was not helpful..  The fish is washed out looking too.  I went to Google images after reading your comment and now see what you are talking about - all the creek chub examples had the spot, the river chubs do not, so agreed that mine was a creek chub.

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[Jonathan Sondej]

For what it's worth, saw some sizable carp, including one Typhoon-class bruiser, in the C&O Canal stretch between Fletcher's and Little Falls on Saturday up where it starts to take on a little depth. Didn't throw for them as I was out for shad, but I also saw an honest 3lb largemouth cruising in inches along the bank, and a snapping turtle like a mossy sewer cap. 

In prior weeks that stretch had looked completely lifeless. I was surprised at it all.

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Can't see the pic of the shiner.

I found some info on the lost brook trout population (do a "CTRL-f" and search the page for "trout" to find the relevant story):

http://www.dof.virginia.gov/manage/riparian/diff-run-study.htm

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[John Smith]

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

[Tom Moran]

John, would love to see that pic!  Were you near the place noted in the article Andrew linked - near cloverleaf of 66 and 50?  

Andrew, I can see that shiner picture fine, no idea why it isn't working.  I used a link instead of an upload for expediency while at work.  Here it is again.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:14 PM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

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[Tom Moran]

Andrew, I found a reference to brook trout sampled in Difficult Run as late as 1976.  I live really close to the location noted in your find so now am interested in trying to hike over to there.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/publicworks/sites/publicworks/files/assets/documents/watersheds/difficult-run-watershed-chapter-2.pdf

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[John Smith]

Kinda of crummy resolution but hey it was from August 1982. This fish was not caught near the cloverleaf. It was in one of the tribs in the upper part of the drainage though. I was just getting into fly fishing at the time but this one was caught on a small spinner. It was released. 

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 9:05:34 PM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

John, would love to see that pic!  Were you near the place noted in the article Andrew linked - near cloverleaf of 66 and 50?  

Andrew, I can see that shiner picture fine, no idea why it isn't working.  I used a link instead of an upload for expediency while at work.  Here it is again.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:14 PM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

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[Tom Moran]

Very nice John, thanks for posting that.  I'm definitely going to explore (with a rod this time) some of the nearby upper tributaries.  Looking downstream of the 66/50 interchange, the stream goes under Valley Road a short distance away.  I bike through there all the time, and there is a pool below the bridge that holds quite an array of species.  I've seen bass up to maybe 11", and some large suckers (fallfish?) plus sunfish and shiners.  Downstream from there is public access through to Waples Mill Road so that would be easy to check out.  5 year ago there were two small beaver dams in that stretch but they disappeared.  Coyotes?  Trappers?  Beaver haters?

If I thought there was a 10% chance of trout holdouts in that area I'd search hard. 

But this weekend I'm targeting Tamarock Park area.  

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:34 AM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kinda of crummy resolution but hey it was from August 1982. This fish was not caught near the cloverleaf. It was in one of the tribs in the upper part of the drainage though. I was just getting into fly fishing at the time but this one was caught on a small spinner. It was released. 

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 9:05:34 PM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

John, would love to see that pic!  Were you near the place noted in the article Andrew linked - near cloverleaf of 66 and 50?  

Andrew, I can see that shiner picture fine, no idea why it isn't working.  I used a link instead of an upload for expediency while at work.  Here it is again.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:14 PM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

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[James M.]

Hi all,

I'm a longtime lurker on here, but this thread made me finally pull the trigger and introduce myself - figured a fish story would make an appropriate first post.  I actually live in Fairfax right by the place noted in Andrew's article, and there's a retention pond near there that I fish in all the time for LMB and bluegill.  There are signs posted there that indicate it's a part of the Difficult Run watershed.  One day maybe a year ago I was fishing for some gills at this pond, and I saw a weird looking little fish about 10 feet away kind of hovering in some running water where another pond drains into that pond, right at a small dropoff.  It definitely wasn't a sunfish, and it 100% wasn't a member of the bass family - it was tubular, about 5 inches long, kind of dark, and had white leading edges on pectoral and pelvic fins. 

I thought to myself, there's no way that's a brook trout in this water - it's just too warm, and it was the perfect size for a bass snack.  I wrote it off as a creek chub or fallfish or some other member of the sucker family, but not one I'd ever seen before - maybe it was an aquarium specimen someone had dumped there.  I cast my little panfish popper to it, but it wasn't interested - it didn't spook and it didn't move, but just kind of ignored my offering.  This thread has me wondering if whatever it was maybe - just maybe - could be a holdover from the old native brookie population.  I've done some research, but I can't find any other native fish that have white leading edges on their fins.  I'm sure it was something uninteresting, but a guy can dream I suppose.  I'm out there pretty much every day there's good weather, so I'll be sure to post if I see something like it again.

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 9:06:16 AM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

Very nice John, thanks for posting that.  I'm definitely going to explore (with a rod this time) some of the nearby upper tributaries.  Looking downstream of the 66/50 interchange, the stream goes under Valley Road a short distance away.  I bike through there all the time, and there is a pool below the bridge that holds quite an array of species.  I've seen bass up to maybe 11", and some large suckers (fallfish?) plus sunfish and shiners.  Downstream from there is public access through to Waples Mill Road so that would be easy to check out.  5 year ago there were two small beaver dams in that stretch but they disappeared.  Coyotes?  Trappers?  Beaver haters?

If I thought there was a 10% chance of trout holdouts in that area I'd search hard. 

But this weekend I'm targeting Tamarock Park area.  

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:34 AM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kinda of crummy resolution but hey it was from August 1982. This fish was not caught near the cloverleaf. It was in one of the tribs in the upper part of the drainage though. I was just getting into fly fishing at the time but this one was caught on a small spinner. It was released. 

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 9:05:34 PM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

John, would love to see that pic!  Were you near the place noted in the article Andrew linked - near cloverleaf of 66 and 50?  

Andrew, I can see that shiner picture fine, no idea why it isn't working.  I used a link instead of an upload for expediency while at work.  Here it is again.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:14 PM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

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[Tom Moran]

Hi James, great story!  It makes me wish for some sort of earth view note system, where if you see a pond (or stream) on say a Google Earth view, you can see anglers' notes on what they found in that body of water.  Maybe it wouldn't work because too many folks want to keep their spots secret, but if every place were noted the pressure would be dispersed.

Examples of info I'd be happy to share - there is a VERY shallow long, narrow pond perhaps 100 yards from Difficult Run, on public land and very close to the intersection noted - Waples Mill, Fox Mill and Oakton roads.  I have hiked all around this (though haven't fished it yet) and it has modest numbers of sunnies in it, likely bluegill.  I've yet to see a bass.  This pond appears to be spring fed but is filling in, it won't be able to sustain fish for very much longer IMO.   The deepest spot can scarcely be 3 feet deep.

There's really small pond by Fair Oaks Hospital at the corner of Alder Woods and Joseph Siewick.  This pond is fairly deep by comparison and has solid numbers of bass and sunfish in it, and turtles that are obviously fed because they converge on you when you fish, looking for handouts.  

Wouldn't it be nice to explore a satellite view and be able to see notes on what might be found to catch in a place?  But I digress.  Maybe it's about time to become a kid again and explore.

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 10:35 AM, James M. <jmcc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

I'm a longtime lurker on here, but this thread made me finally pull the trigger and introduce myself - figured a fish story would make an appropriate first post.  I actually live in Fairfax right by the place noted in Andrew's article, and there's a retention pond near there that I fish in all the time for LMB and bluegill.  There are signs posted there that indicate it's a part of the Difficult Run watershed.  One day maybe a year ago I was fishing for some gills at this pond, and I saw a weird looking little fish about 10 feet away kind of hovering in some running water where another pond drains into that pond, right at a small dropoff.  It definitely wasn't a sunfish, and it 100% wasn't a member of the bass family - it was tubular, about 5 inches long, kind of dark, and had white leading edges on pectoral and pelvic fins. 

I thought to myself, there's no way that's a brook trout in this water - it's just too warm, and it was the perfect size for a bass snack.  I wrote it off as a creek chub or fallfish or some other member of the sucker family, but not one I'd ever seen before - maybe it was an aquarium specimen someone had dumped there.  I cast my little panfish popper to it, but it wasn't interested - it didn't spook and it didn't move, but just kind of ignored my offering.  This thread has me wondering if whatever it was maybe - just maybe - could be a holdover from the old native brookie population.  I've done some research, but I can't find any other native fish that have white leading edges on their fins.  I'm sure it was something uninteresting, but a guy can dream I suppose.  I'm out there pretty much every day there's good weather, so I'll be sure to post if I see something like it again.

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 9:06:16 AM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

Very nice John, thanks for posting that.  I'm definitely going to explore (with a rod this time) some of the nearby upper tributaries.  Looking downstream of the 66/50 interchange, the stream goes under Valley Road a short distance away.  I bike through there all the time, and there is a pool below the bridge that holds quite an array of species.  I've seen bass up to maybe 11", and some large suckers (fallfish?) plus sunfish and shiners.  Downstream from there is public access through to Waples Mill Road so that would be easy to check out.  5 year ago there were two small beaver dams in that stretch but they disappeared.  Coyotes?  Trappers?  Beaver haters?

If I thought there was a 10% chance of trout holdouts in that area I'd search hard. 

But this weekend I'm targeting Tamarock Park area.  

On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 5:34 AM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

Kinda of crummy resolution but hey it was from August 1982. This fish was not caught near the cloverleaf. It was in one of the tribs in the upper part of the drainage though. I was just getting into fly fishing at the time but this one was caught on a small spinner. It was released. 

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 9:05:34 PM UTC-4, Tom Moran wrote:

John, would love to see that pic!  Were you near the place noted in the article Andrew linked - near cloverleaf of 66 and 50?  

Andrew, I can see that shiner picture fine, no idea why it isn't working.  I used a link instead of an upload for expediency while at work.  Here it is again.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:14 PM, John Smith <nati...@gmail.com> wrote:

I’ll take a pic of a pic of a 10-11 inch Brookie I caught in a Difficult tributary back in my high school days when I get home tonight. It’s a shame they’re likely gone. I use to run into Dr. Kelso’s students when they were sampling. I remember seeing some decent sized fish in one particular reach.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

John, that is so cool that you actually have a picture of one of those brookies! Thanks for sharing! I can imagine it was at one time a pretty productive stream. All those tributaries would have made for a healthier population. But a highway interchange built right on the headwaters is about the worst thing imaginable for a brook trout stream.

As for the fish in the pond, the description sure sounds like a brook trout, and they have been known to survive in very low densities for long after the majority of the population is depleted. Many Gunpowder tributaries are a good example of this. There is a stream near my parent's house in PA where every few years I will randomly see a lone brook trout even though it is a very good brown trout stream and electrofishing surveys have never turned up a brook trout. They are quite good at finding a way to barely hang on, and I actually don't think road crossing themselves are a death sentence to these fish because the deep culvert pools can provide refuge when stormwater impacts have wrecked literally every other potential hiding spot on the stream.

Interestingly, the USGS gage on lower difficult run has a water temp reading. Last year it peaked around 80. While that is harmful to brook trout reproductive health it is not definitively lethal, though it's close for sure. Imagine that the headwaters and tribs are a couple degrees cooler and now you're talking about something they can certainly survive, though with a lot of stress. Now, whether there is suitable spawning substrate and in stream cover for them to sustain a population... doubtful.

I wouldn't say it's totally impossible for there to still be a few brook trout hidden in there somewhere, but I do think it's extremely unlikely. If the fish seen in the pond was indeed a brook trout, there's always the possibility it was brought in by bucket from some mountain stream. And, of course, maybe it wasn't a brook trout at all.

[Tom Moran]

Folks, I exchanged a few emails with John Odenkirk (VDGIF fisheries biologist) generally on the topic of brook trout in the Difficult Run watershed, and here are his comments in italics below:

First, with respect to my misidentification of the creek chub I caught last weekend as a river chub:

The fish in the pic is definitely a creek chub (vs. several other sympatric Semotilus species) - you know for sure by the black spot at the base of the dorsal fin on the anterior portion.

On when trout were last found in surveys, and if they were believed to be indigenous:

I think I shocked the last brook trout in the Diff. Run system - would have been about 1990 or so.  It was a large adult.  Depending on your definition of "indigenous" - I am not sure they inhabited that system for more than a decade or so based on anecdotal evidence I have heard and the complete lack of any historical sampling data supporting a viable population in eastern counties documenting wild BKT - believe me - many have looked hard for that evidence.  We found them (and the Browns we subsequently stocked) in Little Diff. Run and S. Fork Diff. Run - never in the mainstem.  We have not been back in decades, but the FX Co. stream team has - they've done a great job sampling and quantifying aquatic resources in the county.  They're part of the stormwater group - you should be able to get some reports if you have not already done so.  I've got some old field sheets in filing cabinet in the office, and there's probably some data in HQ BOVA (Biota of VA - central database).  

On stocking vs indigenous:

From what I have heard they were stocked in the 1970s by a person(s)/club but was unauthorized.  Apparently, there was some natural reproduction, but build-out of the Government Center (ironic, yes?) and associated commercial area off I-66 around Fair Oaks sealed the fate (e.g., habitat crushed by warmer water and sediment).  We tried browns for three years following BKT extirpation in mid 90s, but even they could not hang.  Each year class sequentially disappeared the following year in almost the exact same declining linear trend based on quarterly sampling. 

As to if there were ever indigenous trout in Difficult Run, I located a couple of papers that refer to an 1899 study that found them, and another 1915 one.  His comments below:

ASPECTS OF THE ECOLOGY OF AN ISOLATED POPULATION OF BROOK TROUT (Salvelinus fontinalis) IN FAIRFAX COUNTY, VIRGINIA

JEFFREY E. LOVICH

Journal of the Pennsylvania Academy of Science

Vol. 65, No. 3 (March, 1992), pp. 107-111

http://www.jstor.org/stable/44149067?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 I have seen that 1915 reference before, but I think it's a bit sketchy.  I have seen Lovich pub, but it's been a while.  My guess is that if the report of their existence around the turn of the century was correct (and, it probably was), they didn't last long and were extirpated once only to be restocked later (and extirpated again, or maybe for the third (or fourth) time.  Probably each incident resulted in limited (short-term) natural reproduction.  Just a guess...

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[John Smith]

Couple more anecdotes. I actually went back to the same area in the early 90s and caught a couple brown trout (unfortunately no pics of these) so I know there were trout of some kind as late as the early nineties.

In the past, water temps in the reaches above the Hunter Mill Road crossing were very cool in the summer. We had a swimming hole up that way and I can attest to the temps being way below 80. There are considerably more housing developments now with various water retention ponds which help with runoff and sedimentation, but not temps, especially the wet ponds. They just warm things up. The upper tribs actually had very few game fish to speak of. We never caught bass of any kind or redbreast sunfish. There were bluegill, green sunfish, and a hybrid of those two in the mainstem, but we never caught them in the upper tribs. When I last fished Difficult just upstream of Tamarack, there were bass and redbreast in there. 

I seriously doubt any trout are still around, but I agree with Andrew that small populations of rare species are very hard to keep track of. One example I remember is the brook trout in Severn Run near Annapolis. They may be gone now too, but they eluded folks for years.  I haven't researched what the master plan for the basin is, but if development has stabilized there might be some potential for reintroduction to a couple of the headwaters that have the lowest amount of impervious surfaces.  Wish my commute took me past there, I would collect some temp data for a season to see for myself.

[Bobby Davis]

As an aside, has anyone fished the water body labeled black pond near the mouth of Difficult Run?

[Fly Fish]

I have caught a few LM bass in Black Pond on a single visit.  My daughter was at a volleyball clinic hosted at Madiera which overlooks the river. I walked down from there and fished for an hour.  I think it is Madiera property but not 100% sure.  It's at rivers edge so if you are drifting the river you could stop easily. 

Charlie. 

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[Tom Moran]

There's actually a second, smaller pond a little further down the hill that would also be promising.  I've never fished either, didn't know they existed until now.  As I commented above it would be great if you could append notes  to map features and share with restricted groups (like this one).

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[Bobby Davis]

Tom, such a map exists.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?cd=1&split=0&hl=en&t=h&f=q&geocode=FcZ9TgIdWjln-w&msa=0&z=11&source=s_q&ie=UTF8&mid=1lVB3Sa9E3YllctK3E3WMqWTNqTg&ll=38.928137825032536%2C-77.28078800000003

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[Tom Moran]

Awesome Bobby, thanks!

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[Scott Stankus]

There used to be one (linked from here: http://tpfr.org/links.htm), but it looks like it got "moved to the trash" !!

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=38.92376,-77.109947&spn=0.032252,0.076303&msa=0&mit=n&mid=1_MYcrE7DNg8jcBXPp_Gi49sTWhQ

--Scott

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[Scott Stankus]

Thanks, Bobby!

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[Tom Moran]

Bobby, do I need a permission to be granted in order to add comments to the map?  I can't figure out how to do so.

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[Bobby Davis]

Some don't have detailed comments I think

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[Tom Moran]

What I mean is, I would like to be able to add places with comments to the map but don't see how to do it.  I think I must need someone to add me to a group that can post edits.  There are quite a few comments out there that SOMEBODY must be adding.  I think it would be fun and useful to be able to post results from trips or other assessments of angling potential for spots that I have been to in the past, recently in particular.  And hey, if it motivates me to get out more, all the better!

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

There are various apps out there that do this but they are only as reliable as the people entering data. I keep quite a few maps on Google myself that keep track of locations I've caught fish of interest - it works very well for this purpose. And yes - you have to be added as an editor to a Google map before you can do anything.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

AWESOME info! Thanks for reaching out to him!

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

John,

I am a stormwater engineer and am quite familiar with the county's stormwater management practices and facilities. I have inspected hundreds of detention ponds in the past few years. Unfortunately the downstream fish communities are seldom considered when these are designed, especially older facilities, although the reduction in runoff and erosion is quite significant which certainly helps. You are spot on with the observation about temps. The only exception is some much larger ponds have the outflow pipe openings on the bottom of the concrete box riser structure to help release cooler water. But in a 10-20 ft deep pond there's only so much that setup can do, unfortunately.

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 8:53:54 AM UTC-4, John Smith wrote:

[Tom Moran]

As an alternative to angling or stream observation in the quixotic quest for extinct brookies, one could stick a GoPro under every cut bank or exposed root structure and watch the video carefully on a rainy day.   If I find a new darter do I get to name it?

Etheostoma route66i  doesn't really sing, does it?

Andrew, I see you've done a bit of GoPro on a stick.  I've snorkeled the Cacapon a few times when it was clear and generated some nice spotfin shiner and redbreast videos, with the occasional smallmouth wandering by looking for something to eat.  Darters too, including greenside.  I haven't tried to plunge one under a bank yet, might be revealing.  Last weekend when I fished below the Vale Rd crossing I saw very few fish but there were a lot there.  Would have been a nice option to see what I was missing.

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[tguf...@verizon.net]

From my time as a Director of the Northern Virgina Trout Unlimited in the 80s it was known that there were Brook Trout in Difficult Run. There was a Professor from George Mason University along with graduate students who were studying these trout. From my discussion with them the last residual population disappeared when the Dulles toll road was constructed over Difficult Run.

Below is the Abstract from an article published in 1992 in the Journal of the Pennsylvania Academy of Science by Jeffrey E Jovich entitled “Aspects of the Ecology of an Isolated Population of Brook Trout (Salvelinus Fontinalis) in Fairfax County, Virginia”.

Abstract
An isolated population of brook trout (Salvelinus fontinalis) appears to have survived in the headwaters of Difficult Run, Fairfax County, Virginia since at least 1899 when they were first reported. The presence of brook trout in Difficult Run is unusual for two reasons: 1) Difficult Run is the only stream in the area known to have been inhabitated by brook trout for so long, and 2) they are apparently the only potentially self-sustaining population of native trout in Virginia's Piedmont Province. Brook trout were sampled from 1979 to 1981 with electroshocking gear. The sex ratio was not significantly different from unity. Juveniles accounted for 38 percent of the sample. The modal size class was between 115-135 mm total length. Mean total length and weight of males and females was not significantly different. A multiplicative function suggests that weight increases at significantly less than the cube of total length, unlike most other brook trout populations. The population in a 410 meter section of stream was estimated at 65 fish. Gut contents consisted primarily of plecopterans and coleopterans. Movements of marked fish ranged from 20-150 meters between capture intervals of 7-128 days. Spawning probably occurs in November. The brook trout of Difficult Run may be a relic of a previously more widespread distribution of native trout.

[Tom Moran]

Hi Tom, thanks for dropping in.  Your name really sounds familiar to me, and I've never been a member of TU.  Potomac River Smallmouth Club perhaps?  

Some of the comments in the thread indicate brook trout were found upstream from the Dulles Toll road.  John Odenkirk thought that the death knell for those small and isolated populations was the Government Center complex just upstream from Fair Oaks Mall, which itself must have been a significant impact to the watershed.  It sounds like you were also aware of a downstream population.  

Best,

Tom

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[Tom Moran]

Tom - I figured it out - Troop 1983.

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[tguf...@verizon.net]

Tom, Bingo. I was Troop Committee Chair for 10 years. What was your involvement?