Pickerel - Seeking spots/tips

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Dear TPFR'ers,

I'm planning on doing a lot of exploring this winter in search of these toothy mini monsters.  I've done extensive research on my own, and it seems like there just aren't many places within an hour of northern VA where I live that have them.  Some places I've read about include Mattawoman Creek, Severn and Magothy Rivers (which are almost entirely private property), lower parts of the Patuxent River, and just about everywhere on the Eastern Shore.  I've only gotten around to exploring Tuckahoe Lake and Creek and have had good success there, but that's far enough to basically demand a full day trip with the short winter days.  They really hit flies with a vengeance, and I'd like to find somewhere closer to chase them.

One of the biggest problems I'm finding is accessing the places they live on foot.  I do not have a kayak or other watercraft.  Tuckahoe Creek is basically a swamp with a lot of braided channels and muck, and unless you're close to the trail crossings and other heavily fished access points, it takes a lot of effort just to find solid ground to get into casting position.  

Appreciate any help others can offer - whether it is spots to check out or just general tips on fishing for them with flies from shore.  Feel free to message me directly, I'm willing to share info I've gathered in exchange.

Here's one I caught this weekend in Tuckahoe Creek on a mud minnow pattern.

TIA,

Andrew

[Robert B]

 I used to fish the Patuxent River in the winter time and catch Pickeral, though this was on conventional rod and reel.  The skinnier woodier sections up the Western Branch in Upper Marlboro MD were pretty good.  We were always in kayaks and boats though.  Plenty of white perch, yellow perch and crappie as well.

[Lane Thurgood]

Andrew, I am a chainsides addict between now and late March.  And it seems there aren't very many of us.  I love their torpedolike explosions from the side and V-wakes when on the chase.  Took 4 of them like this one this weekend.  Quantico ponds are loaded with them and here is info on fishing Quantico.  https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/waterbody/quantico-mcb-ponds-lakes/  I have also seen them caught from Burke Lake but not by me.  (And yes, I'm sure they were chain pickerel.)

Tactics:  I use a floating line.  Although when I started targeting them years ago, I initially did fine with 6 and 8 pound mono (I got lucky) because all fish were hooked in the corner of the mouth like yours.  After my first "sliceoff," I went to 20-lb wire.  Used wire for a few years and then somebody told me to use 20-pound fluoro because I'd scare less fish and I'd be fine.  Although 20-pound fluoro has generally worked, I have had a few biteoffs/sliceoffs.  Two weeks ago, I was using 20-pound fluoro, stripping the fly, saw the v-wake coming in, kept stripping, saw the explosion and strip-struck to nothing.  My 20-pound fluoro had been sliced (from thick to threadlike).  I never even felt the strike on the strip.  So, I immediately grabbed my bag and saw that I only had 30-lb wire.  It worked that day and then again this last weekend.  I tie the fly on with a "jam knot."  Way too easy.  And it has never failed me.

As for flies, I started with clousers and half-and-halfs years ago.  As you can imagine, bucktail and feathers generally last for exactly one fish.  I have experimented with various flies and now really only use one.  A bunny-strip fly.  I generally have a 2-inch white or yellow section as a tail, add some flash if I feel like it (and I have felt like it lately using red flash), and I then palmer a chartreuse strip up the shank.  I generally use 1/0 but I've taken pickerel on 6s up to 2/0. And I always mash that barb down.

In colder weather, look for shallow weedy bays protected from the wind. 

I have caught them on topwater, but generally fish a non-weighted bunny strip fly a foot or so under the surface.  In deeper places, I will at times resort to dumbbell eyes.

[tperkins]

I am a fan of Pickerel as well, and have been having similar issues as Andrew. So pretty interested in the answers. Going to be in the Baltimore area over Christmas, so going to check out Loch Raven for them. 

[namfos]

FWIW: there's some good info about the Patuxent to be found at http://patuxentwatertrail.org/ and http://paxriverkeeper.org/watershed-map/

Mark

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 4:21:18 PM UTC-5, Robert B wrote:

 I used to fish the Patuxent River in the winter time...

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Robert,

Thanks for the tip on Western Branch - I turned up some stream survey data that indicated pickerel are present in a few of the tributaries, but I wasn't sure about the main creek.  That seems to be the closest option for me by far, so I will surely get out and do some exploring.

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 4:21:18 PM UTC-5, Robert B wrote:

[Bobby Davis]

Perhaps a post outing report would be in order...

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Lane,

Great advice on flies!!  I haven't had any flies get destroyed yet, but it's easy to imagine.  For tippet, I've been using 22-lb hard mono, but this weekend I had a very small fish inhale the fly and probably shredded about halfway through that tippet - and that wasn't even a 12" fish.  I landed that one and re-tied but I'd hate to be setting myself up to lose a big one if I hook one so I'll probably get some tie-able wire.

Quantico is definitely within my preferred travel range.  Based on online info I was only able to confirm that they are in Lunga which is a massive lake, so it's good to hear they are spread around that area.  Where do you go to get the base fishing permit?

Really nice fish btw.

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 4:24:26 PM UTC-5, Lane Thurgood wrote:

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Certainly!

[tperkins]

I just called Quantico MCB and they said just bring $10.00 to the Quantico Game Check Station on base and you can get the permit. I assume there will be some paperwork to fill out too. But seems easy!

Thomas

[Morgan Cosgrove]

I second this post. I caught my first pickerel on the fly in NY this past may, and have been looking for places in the MD/VA to target these toothy creatures. Any suggestions for not terribly secret locations that are accessible by foot would be greatly appreciated. 

[Andrew Sarcinello]

I did some exploring on Mattawoman Creek today. I parked near the rte 225 and 224 intersection and fished up probably a half mile or so. There's a YouTube video of someone catching a pickerel right at that bridge, which is in the middle of a long, deep pool.

I was curious about upstream from that big pool and initially it looked good but around the power line crossing and upstream most of the pools seemed too shallow and fast moving. I didn't move any fish. Farther up it may turn back into more of a swamp and that would be a good thing but I didn't get far enough to confirm.

Talked to some guys back at the lot who said they catch a ton of pickerel there, so it may have been an off day or a poor angler effort on my part. They started talking about other places they catch pickerel and from what I can tell, they are in most ponds and all Potomac tributaries from Mattawoman south.

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Adding to the above, they pointed me to a pond just down the road and in the short time I had left before dark I was able to catch one 16-17" pickerel.

I found some old data (1970's) that claims Piscataway Creek has redfin and chain pickerel. But there has been a lot of development since then, and more recent reports about that stream all talk about how degraded it is. It would be great if pickerel are still there, as that is very close to DC and has numerous access points.

[namfos]

I haven't fished there, but you may have been pointed to this place: http://dnr.maryland.gov/wildlife/Pages/publiclands/southern/myrtlegrove.aspx

Mark

[Andrew Sarcinello]

That would be it! Thanks for the link.  That map is good.

[ALarge]

Myrtle Grove is an interesting little gem. I run my bird dog there from time to time and he's pointed some VERY rare wild Maryland quail and we even bagged a pair of timberdoodles on their migration a few years back. Lots of game and wildlife out there for being so in-the-middle-of-it-all. I once spooked a massive 8-point buck bedding down for a nap one afternoon. 

They stock the pond in the fall and spring with trout, which brings out the bait chuckers to line the banks. I've even seen guys in belly boats out there before. Perhaps there are chain pickerel big enough to make a meal out of MD stockers. 

The main draw to Myrtle Grove, however, is the gun and archery ranges. I'm fairly certain it's the closest public outdoor range to DC. Again, a nice little gem if you're in the LaPlata/Fort Washington area. 

[namfos]

No problem. We get a "warm" day on a weekend soon and I may take my kayak there for some fishing.

Mark

[namfos]

I asked MD DNR about boats and received this: 

"At Myrtle Grove Wildlife Management Area, you are permitted to use electric motors and paddles for watercraft (just no gas motors). There is a small concrete ramp at the 23-acre lake, however, the 10-acre pond is about a mile long walk to get to and there is no ramp. If you have any additional questions please call the Myrtle Grove WMA office at 301-743-5161."

[Misha Gill]

So I was lucky enough to get out for pickerel twice this month, once with Andrew and once with Thomas. I seem to have carried some pox that applied only to my fishing partners, for while I caught fish  both times they caught none. Not that the action was all that frenzied, but I managed to get three, one on the outing with Andrew and two with Thomas. Not sure what I'm trying to say but I hope to shake the pox when Scott and I go out Saturday for Musky... he's got a hot hand right now having caught TWO when he went out with Blane Chocklett two weeks ago!

For the first trip, Andrew and I headed across the Potomac to southern MD. It was very cold. We tried Myrtle Grove first but it was almost entirely frozen. So we moved on and tried a tidal tributary next with no luck. When that spot didn't pan out we headed to St. Mary's lake and there I finally managed a fish. I was wading along the bank towards the bottom of the lake near the dam. There was a log coming out 90 degrees from the shoreline without any protruding sticks, just a bare log about the thickness of my thigh. I had made multiple casts at the log, but didn't see the fish until I was straddling it and had made a roll cast straight out from the bank parallel to the log. The snakey-looking pickerel followed my fly right to the tip of my rod, and then as I turned the fly horizontal to me and the bank in an attempt to lengthen the retrieve. I tried to figure eight in front of it but spooked it by bring the fly back towards it. Well I was excited and paused to send Andrew a text. A few moments pass, I roll cast again, strip-strip and the fish inhales it less than 15' from the bank. Saw the gills flare. 10 seconds later I had my first pickerel to hand! ("Pickerel 1"). Probably about 14-15". 

Thomas and I headed to Loch Raven on Christmas Eve since we were both in Baltimore for the holiday. Thomas arrived before me and got about five minutes of fishing in before I caught up to him. He had started fishing on a rocky point with a big log extending from shore. A fishy spot to be sure, but also an obvious one right at the trailhead. I crept into the water across the small bay from him and started fan casting. On about my fifth cast I saw the gill flare and set the hook on a better fish. ("Pickerel 2"). Probably about 18". This fish was sitting in only about 2-3' of water over a dirty bottom. There was plenty of wood in the bay but I wasn't able to see exactly what sort of lie he was sitting in. I was so pleased, my day was made!

Thomas and I set off in opposite directions along the bank. The reservoir was down a good four or five feet and that left plenty of firm lake edge to walk along without too many obstacles. That detail was very helpful for getting around. We fished alone for another two hours without any more sightings or bites. A couple hours later Thomas and I reunited and had lunch. Having gotten a fish I thought I would be gracious and let him fish the new structure ahead. We had come across a rather fishing looking bank. It was one side of a bay that extended for about 100-150 yards and fell off into some deepish water - definitely over 5' and probably about 6-7', although that's just speculation. I was just fan casting from a rock about thirty feet away from Thomas and was surprised by the fish. Thomas had already put in a good 20 casts around the spot I was fishing. I thought I'd hooked a deep branch because I didn't see the gill flare through the glare, but then lo it turned out to be a fish! This was my best one yet, a trophy that came to about 21". Luckily I had Thomas on hand and he got a good picture ("Pickerel 3"). 

All three of my fish took the red and white clouser/half and half you can see clearly in the second picture. It's good that the fly survived so I can replicate it. I was glad to have tied a leader with 40 lb rio bite tippet, which is a monofilament covered wire. The third fish in particular took the fly in such a way that the line was subject to toothy abrasion. I had to pry its mouth open to re-orient the fly for removal.  My leader was about 36" of 30 lb flouro to about 24" of bite tippet. I fished a six weight rod and that was about right. 

So here are the things I would postulate so far from my experiences fishing for Pickerel. I'll phrase them as assertions but I really just mean them as theories. 1) they are extremely wood oriented right now. I imagine they are very weed oriented in the summer/spring. Big wood that they can sit next to and imitate is better then twiggy or small wood. 2) red and white is a good color combo. 3) Fly path, position, or placement is very important. I think they may be far far more selective in what they will chase than bass. I got the impression they don't move as far for the fly, because it seemed like it needed to be moving in just the right path for them to want to be willing to give chase.

It's always the best when you can get out there with fellow TPFR'ers like Andrew and Thomas! Thanks guys for the inspiration, this has been a really fun December. Happy holidays everyone. 

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Great summary, Misha!  Funny how each fish got progressively larger.

I'll add that we ended up at St Mary's because of a combination of frozen water and posted property between Myrtle Grove and various other rivers we drove past.  Misha's one fish also outfished a kayak angler at the lake, who covered much more ground than we did on foot.

I'm not sure I agree with your #3, but I need more data points...I haven't caught one since we entered the real winter weather about two weeks ago, and you have.  Before that, they seemed intent on destroying anything in sight *when I found them*.

This deep cold is going to freeze all standing water, if it hasn't already.  If anyone wants to get out in the next few weeks, I wouldn't bother driving to any ponds to look for open water.  Tidal creeks and other flowing streams that have them will be the only game in town.

[Tom Moran]

Hello folks, I just stumbled onto this forum and this thread caught my eye.  As a lifelong resident of the area who has lucked into a few "jacks" over the years, thought I'd chip in my two cents.

As noted elsewhere the eastern shore is really good, and a step above this side of the bay for pickerel.  The Pocomoke is loaded with big ones, it's not unusual to catch 24" jacks there.  BUT, like nearly all tidal rivers, shoreline access is VERY limited.  Andrew, you would expand your possibilities 100 fold by investing in a modest canoe or kayak.  This would open up every single tidal creek to you, and the Md creeks in particular are real gems for this region.

With respect to spots closer to DC, every Md tributary has pickerel, and as a rule they are much more readily found in the upper stream reaches, much more so than mid-stream or near the mouth of the Potomac.  Port Tobacco, Nanjemoy, Mattawoman, Piscataway all have decent populations of fish.  Of these, Mattawoman and Piscataway offer some shoreline access - Piscataway where 210 crosses, and Mattawoman at the Route 225 crossing, where there is a nice privately owned kayak launch (free and open to the public) but lots of trails along both banks.  (and poison ivy everywhere!).  These two sites are close together so you could try both in the same day.  Both also feature herring, yellow perch, and perhaps some shad in the late Feb to March time frame.  And plenty of bass.

Once famous among DC anglers for its yellow perch run, Allens Fresh is another opportunity.  There is public parking at the 234 crossing (actually in between two crossings), with a trail through the woods to a public spot.  It's been years since I fished there, but my dad and I caught our first pickerel ever there in the upper stretches.  I believe that there are likely trails all the way upstream from here, but it is densely forested.  Look however at Google satellite map of the area - you'll see a few exposed bars, if sand you can step out into this open space in just a few places (as long as the tide is out).  A mile or so further up Budd's Creek road is another stream crossing.  Again I haven't been there in decades, in 1971 it was a channelized culvert with rip rap thrown about, but it did contain fish (bass, perch, sunfish) and looking at the map now it appears that mature trees have overgrown the edges.  There is almost certainly good cover (fallen trees) now and the low flow in places presented opportunity to step out into stream center onto sand bars exposed, and get unobstructed casts.  Call that a guess rather than a promise.   

Good luck with your efforts!

Tom

[Misha Gill]

Tom,

Thank you for your generosity in sharing your knowledge of the MD pickerel populations! Could I impose upon you a little further: I'm wondering what sort of structure to look for in the tidal portion of the MD Chesapeake tributaries. Andrew and I fished Tuckahoe Creek below Rte 404 and didn't get into any, although that might have been because the water was really cold. We tried casting at the bank along deeper water, eddies, creek inlets, wood structure... nada. Not even a flash. Again, maybe just a cold day, but if they tend to school up or congregate in certain spots differently in tidal creeks that would be useful information. Thanks again!

Misha

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Many thanks, Tom! 

I second Misha's comment - frankly I felt a bit lost out there on a fairly large tidal river. 

I was also wondering about this quote:

"With respect to spots closer to DC, every Md tributary has pickerel, and as a rule they are much more readily found in the upper stream reaches, much more so than mid-stream or near the mouth of the Potomac.  Port Tobacco, Nanjemoy, Mattawoman, Piscataway all have decent populations of fish.  Of these, Mattawoman and Piscataway offer some shoreline access - Piscataway where 210 crosses, and Mattawoman at the Route 225 crossing"

Could you clarify what you mean by the upper reaches?  To me, with the mindset of a trout fisherman who considers the place where a stream becomes large enough to support a 4" trout as the "upper reaches", those road crossings mentioned would be at the lower reaches.  Perhaps you are thinking upper and lower in terms of where it is big enough to float?

[Tom Moran]

Andrew - most of my most frequented creeks - Nanjemoy, Mattawoman, Allens Fresh (which is really the upper reaches of the western shore Wicomico, not to be confused with the Eastern Shore Wicomico) - there is a place where the marsh seems to end, and you enter a much narrower stream with wooded banks.  This is where I have consistently found pickerel in these particular places.  The bass fishing is poor up here, but in season perch and shad might be found.  Look at Allens Fresh - the public trail (I'm assuming you can launch a car top boat there) would mark the starting point of what I would consider the upper reaches.

Misha - excellent question.  In all candor, I never target pickerel, I target bass and jacks find me!  Generally, they orient to cover as do bass, but with some significant differences.  In these quiet upper reaches I just described, I have reliably found them in stream center, because we're talking a creek width of maybe only 20 feet or even less in places.  So really, they can be anywhere, and they will move a substantial distance if they like the look/sound of a bait.

Let me use the Pocomoke as a different example - LOADED with large pickerel, but loaded means you might catch 3 in a day along with the bass.  They are hefty, though.  Honestly, I'm usually spin fishing on that river, and I have found them at the base of cypress trees, sometimes tight to shorelines but they will also follow a bait all the way back to a boat and hit just as you are ready to lift your bait from the water - a stunner!  Duck blinds can be productive, they seem to love hiding in a bunch of sticks and racing out to savagely attack a bait.  Unlike bass, they rarely can be found deep.  I might fish 6-10 feet at a drop off and can be assured of not catching a jack.  But throw into a pad field and all bets are off.  And unlike bass, they can even be found in thinner pad fields, whereas bass orient better to densely vegetated areas.   If flyfishing the Pocomoke, first of all I'd use large streamers of bright colors - pickerel like flash, chartreuse and fluorescent orange.  A 4" streamer, allowed to sink 1-2 feet would be about right.  If you come across a blind, cast parallel to the wooded sides, even flip one inside if you can.  Try pad fields, again flipping into the edges as deep as you can without getting hung up.  Consider using a weed guard.  

Somebody mentioned Myrtle Grove - that's near Mattawoman.  I'd skip the lake and head back to the two large canal/ponds in the far reaches.  This presents a great opportunity for casts parallel to the shores.  That place used to have a reputation for a lot of pickerel.  It might be fun to hike through the woods to Mattawoman Creek itself (WAY upper reaches) and see if you see anything in there.  I bet they get yellow perch runs end of Feb and into March.  Mickey Finn will take perch readily.

I took this picture of my friend Bill in Nassawango Creek, a trib of the Pocomoke.  There is a really nice campground (Shad Landing State Park) and for anyone who's never been there I can't recommend it enough.  Beautiful cypress, as pretty as a tidal river can get.  But 3 hours from DC.

​

 IMG_20180213_0001.jpg

​

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[Tom Moran]

Misha, a couple of other comments in addition to my lengthy reply - in my experience pickerel don't school or concentrate at all - they are solitary, rogue predators.  Go bass fishing, but use brighter (saltwater, perhaps) flies and they will come when you least expect it.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

Tom, thanks for the clarification, that makes sense to me.

One thing about our Tuckahoe float, given the mid winter cold conditions, aquatic vegetation was non-existent. As Misha said, we focused on woody cover and eddies mostly. Not so much on the channel until the very end, so maybe that was a mistake. Have you caught many in winter, and if so do you think their habits change? I've heard some say they don't really change where they like to hold, but one of my best fishing friends, who has far more experience than I do, insists they will stack up in deep water during extreme cold.

[tperkins]

Tom, thank you as well. So much awesome information here! 

[Tom Moran]

I don't really fish in the very cold winter anymore, but would draw some inferences - all fish move slower in colder water, so I would fish slower and deeper, and focus on upper creek holes out of the current.  Fish cannot hold in current when they are needing to conserve calories and feeding only sparsely.  I do think however, that we're about to start getting warmer and within the next week to two the water temps will get things moving a bit.  Above I mentioned yellow perch because they are about to begin their runs, they will be pushing up into prime pickerel waters and they are eminently catchable.  Like pickerel they are a beautiful fish to behold and unlike pickerel, they make superb eating (though scales are like iron).  You could go out for pickerel but if you want to be assured of catching something, switch to smaller streamers and drop them into some outer creek bends (holes) and almost certainly get something.  With a 9 foot flyrod you could hardly call it casting, just flip into the hole and let it sink to near bottom and give it a motion.  Here's an old article from Angus Phillips on catching perch in exactly the spot I was referring to in Allens Fresh.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031700941.html

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[Rex Moore]

 "There had to be a time -- maybe 200, maybe 2,000, maybe 10,000 years ago -- when humans were doing the same thing, following signs of the season to get where they needed to go to survive. Maybe that's why we like this, because it reminds us of that."

I miss Angus Phillips.

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:45 AM Tom Moran <twmo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't really fish in the very cold winter anymore, but would draw some inferences - all fish move slower in colder water, so I would fish slower and deeper, and focus on upper creek holes out of the current.  Fish cannot hold in current when they are needing to conserve calories and feeding only sparsely.  I do think however, that we're about to start getting warmer and within the next week to two the water temps will get things moving a bit.  Above I mentioned yellow perch because they are about to begin their runs, they will be pushing up into prime pickerel waters and they are eminently catchable.  Like pickerel they are a beautiful fish to behold and unlike pickerel, they make superb eating (though scales are like iron).  You could go out for pickerel but if you want to be assured of catching something, switch to smaller streamers and drop them into some outer creek bends (holes) and almost certainly get something.  With a 9 foot flyrod you could hardly call it casting, just flip into the hole and let it sink to near bottom and give it a motion.  Here's an old article from Angus Phillips on catching perch in exactly the spot I was referring to in Allens Fresh.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031700941.html

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:08 AM, tperkins <thomas....@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom, thank you as well. So much awesome information here! 

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 9:02:29 AM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

Tom, thanks for the clarification, that makes sense to me.

One thing about our Tuckahoe float, given the mid winter cold conditions, aquatic vegetation was non-existent. As Misha said, we focused on woody cover and eddies mostly. Not so much on the channel until the very end, so maybe that was a mistake. Have you caught many in winter, and if so do you think their habits change? I've heard some say they don't really change where they like to hold, but one of my best fishing friends, who has far more experience than I do, insists they will stack up in deep water during extreme cold.

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[Tom Moran]

Rex, I miss pretty much all of our former outdoors writers.  Does any local "paper" still cover fishing?  Not to my knowledge.   Angus was not really very experienced at outdoors activities when he got the job but he plunged in wholeheartedly.   Before Angus, there was C. Boyd Pfeiffer.  Pfeiffer wrote a slew of books (25?) but when I met him and tried to talk to him once at a show he was cold and aloof.  In this thread I mentioned throwing a Mickey Finn streamer for yellow perch - it may have been Pfeiffer that made that recommendation a long time ago, it stuck with me but damned if I can find it online anywhere. 

Gene Mueller wrote for a LONG time, first for the Evening Star, then when that paper folded he wrote for the Post for a while, but the paper's political slant grated on him and he ended up at the W. Times when it was created.  I think Mueller was the most relentlessly out there hitting streams, working contacts, relaying news on fishing of all of them, though he could be cranky at times.  He's really getting up there but has a facebook page and still posts fish pictures, he's down in SC I believe.  

There was also Pete Toreock   ( I know I'm butchering his last name spelling, help appreciated!) who wrote for the long defunct Journal newspapers for a while.  I fished in a local bass tournament circuit for a couple of years in the early 80's and he competed also.  I caught 2 big bass at Lake Anna in miserable rainy conditions, and edged him to win by just a couple of ounces.  He was very gracious, especially since he thought he had won because I was the last to weigh in.  But the very next tournament, on the Potomac, he cleaned up jigging some metal spoons along pilings in Aquia creek, and I was thrilled to be among the first to congratulate him.  Class act, good fisherman with passion for writing too.  I have no idea what happened to him, maybe if I remembered how to spell his last name I could find him.  

But lest I digress from the thread topic, I don't recall any of these guys writing about catching jacks on the fly.  Though there are other things I don't remember so well anymore....   

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:28 PM, Rex Moore <rexm...@gmail.com> wrote:

 "There had to be a time -- maybe 200, maybe 2,000, maybe 10,000 years ago -- when humans were doing the same thing, following signs of the season to get where they needed to go to survive. Maybe that's why we like this, because it reminds us of that."

I miss Angus Phillips.

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:45 AM Tom Moran <twmo...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't really fish in the very cold winter anymore, but would draw some inferences - all fish move slower in colder water, so I would fish slower and deeper, and focus on upper creek holes out of the current.  Fish cannot hold in current when they are needing to conserve calories and feeding only sparsely.  I do think however, that we're about to start getting warmer and within the next week to two the water temps will get things moving a bit.  Above I mentioned yellow perch because they are about to begin their runs, they will be pushing up into prime pickerel waters and they are eminently catchable.  Like pickerel they are a beautiful fish to behold and unlike pickerel, they make superb eating (though scales are like iron).  You could go out for pickerel but if you want to be assured of catching something, switch to smaller streamers and drop them into some outer creek bends (holes) and almost certainly get something.  With a 9 foot flyrod you could hardly call it casting, just flip into the hole and let it sink to near bottom and give it a motion.  Here's an old article from Angus Phillips on catching perch in exactly the spot I was referring to in Allens Fresh.  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031700941.html

On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 9:08 AM, tperkins <thomas....@gmail.com> wrote:

Tom, thank you as well. So much awesome information here! 

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018 at 9:02:29 AM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

Tom, thanks for the clarification, that makes sense to me.

One thing about our Tuckahoe float, given the mid winter cold conditions, aquatic vegetation was non-existent. As Misha said, we focused on woody cover and eddies mostly. Not so much on the channel until the very end, so maybe that was a mistake. Have you caught many in winter, and if so do you think their habits change? I've heard some say they don't really change where they like to hold, but one of my best fishing friends, who has far more experience than I do, insists they will stack up in deep water during extreme cold.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

Dropping an update while I'm thinking about it - summary of my attempts the past few weeks.

Went back to the ponds at Myrtle Grove where I tangled with two pickerel in an hour one day last fall. Got skunked.

Fished both canals in the back, away from the lakes.  Got skunked.

Fished a pond in the Piscataway drainage that looked good.  Got skunked.

Fished several locations in Mattaponi WMA, which is located south of Fredericksburg.  Found a really awesome looking oxbow pond, which VDGIF webpage claims has pickerel, bass, and bowfin.  Got skunked yet again.

Very discouraging thus far.

[Andrew Sarcinello]

Discouraging because not only am I not catching any pickerel, I'm not seeing them either.  I saw absolutely not one pickerel on any of the trips mentioned below. I don't feel like I'm learning anything when I'm not getting any response whatsoever from my target........

[Richard Farino]

It’s the beginning of March.  Water is still cold.  Let it warm a little and don’t get discouraged.

 

R

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[Carl Z.]

Have you ever gone hunting Snipe?

Carl

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[Tom Moran]

Agreed, the weather has been wild lately.  I was hoping to get down to Allens Fresh for the last several weekends but we had a lot of rain, and it makes its way down Zekiah Swamp very slowly so I knew the conditions in the Fresh were going to be high and murky, opposite of what I want.  At least you got out and worked on your casting form.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 6:28 PM, Richard Farino <rfa...@gmail.com> wrote:

It’s the beginning of March.  Water is still cold.  Let it warm a little and don’t get discouraged.

 

R

 

From: <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:46 PM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potomac-fly-rodders@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Pickerel - Seeking spots/tips

 

Discouraging because not only am I not catching any pickerel, I'm not seeing them either.  I saw absolutely not one pickerel on any of the trips mentioned below. I don't feel like I'm learning anything when I'm not getting any response whatsoever from my target........

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

Dropping an update while I'm thinking about it - summary of my attempts the past few weeks.

 

Went back to the ponds at Myrtle Grove where I tangled with two pickerel in an hour one day last fall. Got skunked.

 

Fished both canals in the back, away from the lakes.  Got skunked.

 

Fished a pond in the Piscataway drainage that looked good.  Got skunked.

 

Fished several locations in Mattaponi WMA, which is located south of Fredericksburg.  Found a really awesome looking oxbow pond, which VDGIF webpage claims has pickerel, bass, and bowfin.  Got skunked yet again.

 

Very discouraging thus far.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

Appreciate it.

There's a lot of hype out there about them being aggressive, easy to catch, and a great winter fish to target.  So far I haven't found that to be true at all.  If the water can in fact get too cold for them, how in the world does that make them a better winter target than any other fish??

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 6:28:22 PM UTC-5, Richard Farino wrote:

It’s the beginning of March.  Water is still cold.  Let it warm a little and don’t get discouraged.

 

R

 

From: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:46 PM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Pickerel - Seeking spots/tips

 

Discouraging because not only am I not catching any pickerel, I'm not seeing them either.  I saw absolutely not one pickerel on any of the trips mentioned below. I don't feel like I'm learning anything when I'm not getting any response whatsoever from my target........

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

Dropping an update while I'm thinking about it - summary of my attempts the past few weeks.

 

Went back to the ponds at Myrtle Grove where I tangled with two pickerel in an hour one day last fall. Got skunked.

 

Fished both canals in the back, away from the lakes.  Got skunked.

 

Fished a pond in the Piscataway drainage that looked good.  Got skunked.

 

Fished several locations in Mattaponi WMA, which is located south of Fredericksburg.  Found a really awesome looking oxbow pond, which VDGIF webpage claims has pickerel, bass, and bowfin.  Got skunked yet again.

 

Very discouraging thus far.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

I'm probably gonna stick with trout next winter unless I hit the "jack"pot somewhere this weekend.  100% not worth the effort since December.  Lot of gas $$ spent for zero return - should have just gone for muskies instead...!

[Tom Moran]

"There's a lot of hype out there about them being aggressive, easy to catch, and a great winter fish to target.  So far I haven't found that to be true at all.  If the water can in fact get too cold for them, how in the world does that make them a better winter target than any other fish?? "

They are damned aggressive, thrilling when they strike near the surface!  They are more active than many other fish in the winter, so it's reasonable to target them, but they become MORE active as the weather warms, and there aren't all that many of them so expecting to be successful any given trip might be overly optimistic, unless you go to Eastern Shore haunts.  They are loners so you're rarely going to find a concentration of them, you're just going to luck into the odd one here or there.  One can target bass and catch 5, 10 or more in a day if you figure out the pattern.  You'll never do that with pickerel.   

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 10:51 AM, Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Appreciate it.

There's a lot of hype out there about them being aggressive, easy to catch, and a great winter fish to target.  So far I haven't found that to be true at all.  If the water can in fact get too cold for them, how in the world does that make them a better winter target than any other fish??

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 6:28:22 PM UTC-5, Richard Farino wrote:

It’s the beginning of March.  Water is still cold.  Let it warm a little and don’t get discouraged.

 

R

 

From: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Andrew Sarcinello <andy...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:46 PM
To: Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Pickerel - Seeking spots/tips

 

Discouraging because not only am I not catching any pickerel, I'm not seeing them either.  I saw absolutely not one pickerel on any of the trips mentioned below. I don't feel like I'm learning anything when I'm not getting any response whatsoever from my target........

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote:

Dropping an update while I'm thinking about it - summary of my attempts the past few weeks.

 

Went back to the ponds at Myrtle Grove where I tangled with two pickerel in an hour one day last fall. Got skunked.

 

Fished both canals in the back, away from the lakes.  Got skunked.

 

Fished a pond in the Piscataway drainage that looked good.  Got skunked.

 

Fished several locations in Mattaponi WMA, which is located south of Fredericksburg.  Found a really awesome looking oxbow pond, which VDGIF webpage claims has pickerel, bass, and bowfin.  Got skunked yet again.

 

Very discouraging thus far.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

Yeah I guess based on a lot of what I had read, I was under the impression that fishing for them actually improves in winter compared to other seasons.  But from what you're saying it might be more like they slow down, but just less so than other fish.

In the fall I certainly was able to luck into a few and found it pretty easy to move a couple every time.  Then it got cold and I couldn't even find one, when I was expecting to find more in those conditions, not less.  Then we had warm spells in February and I still couldn't find them.  Just feel like there's a lot of misleading info out there (not from you or anyone else here - just in general) and after getting my butt handed to me repeatedly, I'll have different expectations going forward.  Soon it will be time for shad, and pickerel will be an afterthought for a while anyway.

Appreciate it.

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[Andrew Sarcinello]

Made it over to Myrtle Grove for 2 hours on Saturday afternoon - got the monkey off the back and managed to land one 16" pickerel.  When I arrived it was cloudy but the clouds quickly moved out.  Water was mid 40s and warmed quickly in the direct sun - but I think that may have triggered an algal bloom as after an hour of the sunlight, the water became discolored.  It was pretty clear when I arrived though, and I didn't move any fish after the change in clarity happened.

On Monday, March 5, 2018 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-5, Andrew Sarcinello wrote: