Guide etiquette dilemma

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Miles

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Sep 29, 2014, 4:59:29 PM9/29/14
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I've just returned from a tropical paradise, where I booked a guide to take me bonefishing. I don't have a lot of experience with fishing guides, so I'm not really sure what to make of that experience. Question to follow:

I was fishing with the #2 guy in the organization, and though we had a good time, I wouldn't recommend him to anybody. First, when he picked me up he smelled strongly of mary jane -- maybe not baked at the time, but definitely spent a lot of time in the oven recently. I'm not anti-cannabis, but it just seemed unprofessional.

Second, at one point we spent about 45 minutes wading directly towards the sun. After that we went to another flat and finally found fish, I had zero depth perception and couldn't cast accurately to save my life. It wasn't jitters: it was blindness. Super frustrating.

Third, the guide smoked at least three times as many cigarettes as we saw fish. I'm not strictly anti-tobacco, but he always seemed to be directly upwind of me, blowing cigarette smoke in my face. The guide also answered his cell phone about a half dozen times while we were fishing. At one point I was watching a sea turtle swim, and he stopped talking on the phone long enough to tell me, "That's a pufferfish." No, bro, it's a turtle. "Oh, yeah." 

Fourth, in a discussion about what tide we were fishing, he told me: "You can't trust tide charts." Which to me is a weird thing for a fishing guide to say. I know there are reasons why tides vary somewhat for a given location, but the basic mechanics of moon, earth, and ocean have been pretty well established for a billion years or so. I was waiting for him to explain, but that was all he said.

Going back to number 1, I'm still not prepared to say the guide was high, but it would make a lot of sense in retrospect. It could also be that he's just a crappy guide. He did eventually find fish, which I did not catch, and I had an adequate amount of fun -- but still.

So my question is: What should I do about this? Is it appropriate to write an email to the head guide and say, 'I had fun, I am not asking for a refund, but I wouldn't recommend this to my friends because 1, 2, 3, 4..."? I think so, but I don't know if this would seem like ordinary non-fish-catching-customer complaints, or whether the head guide would take it seriously. Are these legit problems, or just "This is fishing" type nuisances? I know what counts as professionalism for fishing guides is a bit more lax than other jobs, but it seemed like this guy was still not quite there.

thanks,

Miles
 





Richard Farino

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Sep 29, 2014, 5:15:25 PM9/29/14
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Miles,

If that’s the #2 guy, that needs to be a 1-man operation.  People can argue about other folks nitpicking at everything someone does wrong on a trip, but you sometimes need to speak up.  He should know what he’s doing… but if the cigarette smoke bothers you, mention it so he can get downwind.

Were the phone calls to other guides about conditions?  Fishing reports?  Sun in your eyes – did you ask him how he’s able to see fish with the glare/sun in front?

Lastly, you work(ed?) for the big O in Clarendon.  Don’t be afraid to let the guide know you can’t recommend his outfit for those reasons.  You’re not pulling a trump card, you’re just being honest.

The mary jane is a fact of life.  You’re fishing with an island guy in a tropical location and people are laid back and do whatever.  You have to understand the vibe, man…  


R




Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 Google_Maps_Marker

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313ric...@urbanangler.com  urban-signature-facebook  urban-signature-twitter



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Jeffrey Silvan

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Sep 29, 2014, 6:02:33 PM9/29/14
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I have hired guides all over this half of the country and have found a couple bad ones, but this seems like an extra-bad experience. I've had guides answer the phone before, but it's typically only been to get/share intel on fishing conditions. Personal conversations shouldn't be happening while he's on the clock for you. With the wading, I'm not sure exactly how the trip was set up, but if you needed to get from point A to point B, going directly into the sun may have been the only option. A good guide would do his best to minimize the impact of poor conditions, though. I would definitely send a note to the head guide and let him know about your experience. For many outfits, word of mouth is the most important source of business. A poor experience doesn't bode well for a guide service. Luckily for them, you didn't post the name, but many would have.

Lastly, with the tide charts... there's some really weird anomalies going on right now, particularly in the Gulf. I just got off the water a couple hours ago from a 3-day trip for redfish in Louisiana (well, one and a half days due to terrible weather), and no one can understand what's going on with the water conditions. The tides are generally around the times predicted, but have been off by about an hour or two depending on the day. Additionally, the water levels are just WAY off predicted, and again, have been all month despite no storms or significant sources of wind pushing the water up. Heck, there was a north wind today which should have blown water out of the marsh, but the tides were still three feet over predicted heights.

Bob Smith

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Sep 29, 2014, 8:07:11 PM9/29/14
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Sorry, but you need to harsh that guy's mellow. Smoking permission should have been asked. The potential "smoking" isn't a problem with me as long as it doesn't affect the guides ability. Sounds like his was affected.

I would definitely send a letter/email to the guide service.

TurbineBlade

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Sep 29, 2014, 8:56:02 PM9/29/14
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Fish or not, in my opinion you should always feel that a guide is working as hard as possible to provide the best experience for you. I'd go with your gut on this one.

Miles

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Sep 29, 2014, 9:55:37 PM9/29/14
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Thanks, everybody. Even just writing it out, I felt like I needed to get in touch with the head guide. I kept remembering new stupid stuff my guy did. I'll drop him a note.

MDT

Yambag Nelson

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Sep 29, 2014, 11:37:17 PM9/29/14
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i would write and express your concerns but the rules in some places are quite a bit different than what we expect in the U.S.  I have fished with guides in South America who were literally spending their off days learning to fish.  They were nice guys but were virtually useless beyond taking me to fishing spots.  That's just how it is.

Miles

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Sep 30, 2014, 8:00:45 AM9/30/14
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I sent an email late last night, and the head guy emailed me back almost right away to apologize. He said he never gets much feedback about the #2 guy's guiding, so he thanked me and offered to take me out the next time I'm down, no charge.

Miles

Cary Pugh

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Sep 30, 2014, 9:24:47 AM9/30/14
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Like others I have been with a wide range of guides in various countries.  Agree the standards are different for different countries but you should feel the guide is working hard for you and is controlling the few variables that he/she can (your comfort -- within reason -- and his intrusions and distractions being the two main ones as he can't control the weather or the fish).  On smoking I speak up if I want to avoid the smoke (it bothers me but its cultural so I won't tell folks they cannot smoke).  I am guessing you did not think the phone calls related to his guiding business but rather were personal and distracting and that is why they stood out (I imagine most all of us would understand a guide getting calls about booking trips and not wanting to blow off prospective or upcoming business but we expect the guide to handle that quickly and ask if he/she could return the call at a better time, when he is not with a client).  I am less excited about the mary jane.  It is a fact of life but if you are in a boat or riding with him you should not be wondering about how baked he is (or how recently baked). 

I am glad (as a potential client of this outfit -- you never know) that you are bringing to the head guide's attention.  I have not hesitated when I have found exceptional service (either good or bad) to make this known to the outfitters.  Whether they act on it or not is their issue.  And as your post just now shows most folks don't take the time.  Thanks again for doing so.


On Monday, September 29, 2014 4:59:29 PM UTC-4, Miles wrote:

D. Walker

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Sep 30, 2014, 9:40:47 AM9/30/14
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as I read your post, I am imagining your guide to be like Captain Ron....

Rob Snowhite

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Sep 30, 2014, 10:05:01 AM9/30/14
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Guide horror stories - we had a guy take us out at Harkers Island. 

He had spent the night before out on the water as he got lost in the fog. He got sea sick. I hooked an albie and he backed up the boat into the anchor line of the only boat around and the fish swam around the line and broke me off. 

He wanted to go in early for 420 time and trade a fried chicken for cocaine with his booty call source. 

He gave us fliers and cards for the local fly shops. They didn't make it off the dock. Straight into the trash. 



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TurbineBlade

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Sep 30, 2014, 10:05:23 AM9/30/14
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I was thinking -- 

Jeff Ford

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Oct 8, 2014, 8:43:21 PM10/8/14
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My experience is that all island guides suck. I have done 3 trips in various islands. All bad experiences. About 10 freshwater trout and salmon trips and 9'were good, great, or flat out amazing. I only had 1 bad trout trip because he was a young college kid who didn't know much. I think the island life makes them less oriented to hard work, customer service, etc. and once you are there they have you so to speak. A guy guiding a western md river has a lot more to lose if the local fishing population starts to talk about him poorly.

Yambag Nelson

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Oct 9, 2014, 11:49:12 AM10/9/14
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The difference is probably that all of those freshwater guides have been flyfishing  their whole life or at least a good chunk of it.  They have fished with plenty of guides, know what the expectations, and should be very good fly fishermen themselves.   Most of them truly love their work.  Most of the guides in different parts of the world know very little about fly fishing, and only learned what they do know because it was a job opportunity.  You just can't hold them to the same standard as you do guides here, especially if you are finding random independent guides on the islands.  At the better lodges they do a better job screening and training guides but that is not the case everywhere.

Matthew Longley

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Oct 9, 2014, 12:02:34 PM10/9/14
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Yea I gotta disagree.  I went down to El Pescador this past June and was amazed by the guides there. Some of them have been guiding for 30 plus years.  Our guide learned from his dad and older brother. He realized what we were looking for - to learn, have fun, and drink beer - and adjusted accordingly, and we had a blast.  But even when we were joking around, if he thought he saw fish out in the distance it was all business.  Couldn't recommend that lodge more, those guys really want to get you on fish.

Rob Snowhite

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Oct 9, 2014, 12:19:12 PM10/9/14
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Long read sent from friend last night.


Sent from my iPhone

Subject: trout story...

I’m pretty sure my fishing guide was stoned. His bloodshot eyes had that vacant, “You can knock on the door all you want, but nobody’s home.” look, and he smelled, in fact he reeked, of marijuana. Yeah, ol’ Homer Jones, who I’d known for less than an hour, seemed to have started off the morning with a good buzz on.

“Shit.” I thought to myself. “Just what I need. A one man party rowing the boat.”

My buddy Mack, who was responsible for booking the trip, looked over, caught my troubled expression, and said, “Relax, amigo. Mellow out. He’ll have his act together by the time we’re out on the water.”

“Right.” I said. “You’re absolutely right. No problem. It’s gonna be a great day.”

A few minutes later we walked over to Homer’s rig, which was sitting in the fly shop’s parking lot with a beat-up fiberglass drift boat hitched on behind. Homer was driving an old Land Cruiser with a rusted electric winch bolted to the front bumper, and there was some seriously loud reggae music blasting from the cab.

“I shot the sheriff, but I didn’t shoot no deputy. Oh, no-ooo. I shot the sheriff, but I didn’t shoot the deputy ...”

It was the original Bob Marley, too, not the more popular Clapton version, and Homer turned and gave me a big, toothy grin.

“All around in my home town, they’re trying to track me down. They say they want to bring me in guilty, for the killing of a deputy ...”

“Are you into Bob Marley, man?”

I nodded.

“Cool, maybe we can smoke a bone or two on the river. Get us in the right frame of mind.”

“Mmmmm ...”

“Cool!”

My half wasted, totally oblivious guide walked back to his boat and began fiddling with his anchor rope. Mack just laughed and shrugged his shoulders.

“Sheriff John Brown always hated me. For what, I don’t know. Every time I plant a seed, he say ‘Kill it before it grow.’ He say ‘kill them before they grow.’ And so …”

The top of the Box (“the Box” being local slang for the Box Canyon on the Henry’s Fork) was crowded. There were at least a dozen guides waiting to launch their boats and the whole place was buzzing with the electric combination of excitement and anticipation that usually marks the beginning of a day on the river. Mack and I pulled on our waders and rigged up while Homer unstrapped his boat and stowed his cooler, and I made sure to test my tippet knots a couple extra times. The salmon flies were out, cruising through the clear air above our heads like little remote-control helicopters, and I’d already made up my mind to fish the big bugs. Consequently, the last thing I wanted was for a huge Henry’s Fork ‘bow to snap my leader like a piece of rotten string simply because one of my blood knots wasn’t up to snuff.

I was just finishing up when Homer walked over and asked, “Can I help you with that, man?”

I thought about his offer for a second.

“Thanks, buddy,” I told him, “but I’m all set.”

“Cool!”

He walked back to the boat, opened his cooler, and popped the top on a can of Bud. I looked at my watch. It was 8:43 a.m.

I turned to Mack.

“Ol’ Homer is a prince among guides.”

Mack just nodded, the first inkling of a pained expression creeping over his face, while in the background Mr. Marley crooned from the inside of the Land Cruiser.

“No woman, no cry. No woman, no cry. Say, say, say I remember when we used to sing ...”

I walked up to Mack and put my arm around his shoulder.

“A prince ...”

“Everything’s gonna be all right, everything’s gonna be all right ...”

“among guides.”

I would never have pegged Homer as the impatient sort - most of the stoners I knew back in the 70s were pretty laid back - but apparently his early morning buzz was already winding down and the day’s first beer hadn’t kicked in yet. When we were about ready to launch, he looked around, saw the long line of rigs waiting to drop their boats, and rolled his eyes, the whites of which had achieved the distinctive color of a smoky western sunset.

“What a bone, dude.” he said, although it was unclear whether he was addressing me, Mack, or some unknown patron saint of fly fishing guides. “A total bone.”

Then an idea seemed to pop into his head, and he brightened right up.

“Check it out, gentlemen. I’m gonna circumvent this massive traffic jam.”

Homer seemed pretty pleased with himself. Not knowing him well, I honestly wasn’t sure if he experienced much in the way of regular ideas. Based on the evidence at hand, though, it appeared that even a relatively simple thought might be cause for a certain amount of celebration. So Mack and I stepped away from the rig while Homer fired the Cruiser up, swung it around, and proceeded to back his boat down to the river right next to the Handicapped Fishing Platform.

It was an original concept, all right, the kind of “outside the box” thinking that’s been in vogue for the last few years, and the only real problem I could see with Homer’s idea was the complete and utter lack of a boat ramp anywhere in the vicinity. Hard-packed dirt fed straight into monster chunks of bankside riprap, and the Henry’s Fork started where the riprap left off. Give or take a few inches, that particular section of river was about three feet deep.

Things might have still turned out all right if one of Homer’s trailer tires hadn’t caught in the space between two big boulders. He tried to ease the trailer back, but with the tire hung up it wouldn’t budge.

When his initial approach didn’t work, Homer threw caution to the wind, jammed the Cruiser into 4 wheel drive, and gunned it. Tires smoked on rock, his rig seemed to compress like a mountain lion gathering itself for a leap, and then the entire trailer went hurtling into the river..... to be followed almost immediately by Homer and his truck.

Mack and I were instantly joined by a number of fishermen who’d been watching Homer’s attempt with both awe and a fair amount of incredulity, and the prevailing opinion seemed to be that neither Homer nor his rig would be going anywhere in the near future. Homer’s problem, or at least the first of several, was that his Cruiser was situated at right angles to the current, and the entire force of the river was pushing against the driver’s side door, making it impossible to open. He eventually levered himself out the window, at which point a resounding cheer went up from the crowd of onlookers gathered at the water edge.

I’m not sure if anyone else noticed it, but as we stood there staring, reggae music was still wafting from his partially submerged vehicle.

“Don’t worry about a thing. Cause every little thing’s gonna be all right. Don’t worry bout a thing. Cause every little thing’s gonna be all right …”

Mack and I waited around for Homer to struggle out of the water with his waders more or less full and his hat askew, and after giving him a second to catch his breath and inquiring about his health - he said that he was, “Fine. I’m fine, guys.” - we asked him what he thought might happen next.

Homer, though, had apparently exhausted his supply of ideas on his way into the river. Nothing much came to mind for getting back out.

Mack, who’s usually a practical sort, pointed at the front of the Cruiser, where we could just make out the electric winch beneath the swirling currents.

“What about hooking up your cable to another truck, Homer, and then winching yourself out?”

“Nahhh, man, the cable is shot and the spool is so rusted it won’t even turn. It’s useless. I’m going to have to hitch a ride back to Last Chance and call a tow truck. We’re pretty much screwed.”

I have to admit that Homer’s assessment of the situation was dead on. He’d be dealing with his predicament for at least the next four or five hours, and as far as floating the Canyon, Mack and I were both shit out of luck.

Then an idea popped into my head, and I tapped Mack on his shoulder.

“Oh please don’t you rock my boat. Cause I don’t want my boat to be rockin. Oh please, don’t you rock my boat. Cause I don’t want my boat to be rockin ...”

“Hey,” I told him, “we’re standing here with our fly rods in our hands and we’re approximately ten feet from one of the best stretches of river in the world. Why don’t we go fishing?”

Mack looked at me, and what had been a pained expression, the beginnings of what our guide might have referred to as “a real bone of a look,” slid from his face and was replaced by a glimmer of cautious optimism. In fact, I could see the tension start to drain from his body as if he’d just chugged a couple of Homer’s beers.

“That sounds like a plan. Lead on, my friend.” he said, “Lead on.”

I looked downstream toward the boat launch, upstream at the water racing out from Island Park dam, and then across the river, where a midstream gravel bar gave relatively easy access to the far bank, a bank with half a dozen partially submerged logs and a few large boulders. We only had to cross the channel in between, just upstream from Homer’s truck, and we’d be able to fish up along either side of the gravel bar as well as the entire far side of the river.

An added, and rather substantial, benefit was that since we were upstream from the boat launch, we’d have the water to ourselves. All the guides were loading their clients and heading straight down into the canyon. Nobody was bothering to row upstream to fish the couple hundred yards between the launch and Island Park Dam.

So Mack and I climbed down over the riprap, linked arms for a little extra stability in the fast, deep current, and paused for just a second before we waded out into the river. We were only about ten yards upstream from Homer’s rig at that point, and amazingly, Bob Marley was still cranking out of the open window.

“Exodus, all right, movement of the people. Oh yeah. Exodus, movement of the people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Open your eyes ...”

I turned to Mack, a wisecrack poised on the tip of my tongue, but he was already singing along with Homer’s tape.

“Open you eyes. Look within. Are you satisfied with the life you’re living?”

“I will be,” I told him, “when I’m casting my five weight instead of holding your damn hand.”

We stepped out into the water, and for a moment or two the heavy flow threatened to wash us downstream. I had the brief but uncomfortable feeling that my plan was going to turn out more like Homer’s than I cared to admit. Fortunately, we were able to maintain our balance and fight our way across the current, and we eventually made it over to the gravel bar in the center of the river.

“That was a little hairy.” Mack said when I let go of his arm. “We might want to find someplace else to cross on the way back.”

I wasn’t in the mood for complaints. “Stop moaning. We’ll worry about getting back after we’ve caught some of the trout that are supposed to be stacked in here like cordwood.” I looked around for a second. “Where do you want to try?”

“I’m going to work those boulders and logs on the far bank. I’ll catch up with you a little later.” Then he smiled, gave me a thumbs up salute, and started over towards the other side of the river. Which left me all the water upstream toward the dam.

I paused for just a second, giving thanks to the man upstairs that Homer’s disaster hadn’t completely ruined the day, and then I started walking up along the gravel bar, looking for a likely spot to float a big bushy dry fly. One particular area caught my attention while I was still thirty yards downstream. There was a riffle that dropped off into a deep, fast run and the current in the transition zone was broken by an underwater rock the size of a Labrador retriever. I’d have bet a week’s paycheck that there was a nice fish on that submerged boulder, so I snuck up from below, worked out a little line, and dropped my first cast of the day five feet in front of the rock.

The fly landed, twisted just a bit in the current, and then rode the broken surface as if it was a salmon fly fluttering to free itself from the current. Which it must have seemed to the Nose below.

The Nose.

For that’s what appeared, at least for the moment I saw it. Some sort of monstrous, Durante-like beak, the kind that was surely attached to a fish weighing well into the double digits.

The Nose rose up, water sliding to either side of the great proboscis as if Moses was parting the Red Sea, and then my fly was gone. Not taken. Just gone.

I set the hook more by instinct than conscious thought and held on for dear life as the fish of my dreams swam slowly upstream against the current. For those first few moments, everything else ceased to exist. My wife, my kids and my job disappeared. Mack could have been in a different state. Homer, our recently baptized fishing guide, was erased from my mind so completely that he might never have been born at all.

It was almost Biblical, the strength of my attachment to that fish. I was connected by both my fly line and the Grace of God to a trout big enough to eat ducks, and I swore to myself that I was going to bring him to hand and thank him before I let him go. I was going to bring him to hand or ... no, anything else was too horrible to contemplate. I had to land that fish. There was no other alternative; I would accept no other possibility.

So I put the wood to him. I was fishing a brand new 3x tippet, a super material that had supposedly tested out at almost 10 lbs., and I decided right then and there that it was going to be a short, nasty fight - no babying this huge fish, no letting him rest or relax. He was in a heap of trouble, even if he didn’t know it yet.

Of course it turned out that I was the one in a heap of trouble. I started out with my five weight bent in a big U and that damn fish just kept making the bend tighter and tighter until I was sure the rod was going to snap in half. I eventually had to stop palming the reel and let him run. Which he did. Indeed, he did.

He went upstream twenty yards or so, the strong current seemingly no impediment at all, and then he curved back downstream, roaring past me like some guided cruise missile of a fish. At which point his innate radar system took over and he headed across the current in the general direction of the Handicapped Fishing Platform, where a number of anglers had gathered to watch my battle.
And, unfortunately, towards Homer’s truck.

I can’t tell you what I said when I realized that my fish, quite possibly the biggest trout in a river known for producing leviathans, was swimming right at Homer’s rig. You can use your imagination, though, and you’ll end up with a pretty good idea of the stuff I was spouting.

Of course the fish didn’t care. He may never have seen Homer’s truck before, but he sure knew a nice, safe looking snag when he saw one. And the Cruiser certainly fit the bill.

So I found myself in a difficult situation. If I didn’t do anything, my trout was going to wedge himself into some crevice of Homer’s rig and break me off. If I tried to stop him, he’d probably snap either the tippet or my rod. Still, the latter option, poor as it was, offered the most potential, so I hauled back, using every ounce of my strength and putting a bend in that rod like it had never seen before.

It was one of those pregnant moments, one of those hushed, anticipatory moments when time seems, if not to stand still, at least to slow down to the point where each and every minor detail catches and holds your eye.

Those details shattered, though, when instead of breaking off, my fish decided to jump. He came out of the water like ... hell, I don’t know what he was like, it was a damn explosion, this impossibly huge, impossibly bright rainbow, bigger than any steelhead I’d ever hooked, blowing up out of the water right next to Homer’s truck like some sort of piscatorial detonation, and he was twisting, shaking, quivering; trying to throw that big orange fly from the corner of his mouth.

And in that moment I knew the true meaning of amazement.

For, incredible as it seems, he jumped right through the Land Cruiser’s open window.

There was a hush, a second or two when neither the anglers on the bank nor the river itself seemed to make a sound, and then I realized what I’d originally thought was the pounding of my heart was in fact a rock steady bass. It was coming from the truck.

“I want to love you, and treat you right. I want to love you, every day and every night. We’ll be together...”

I don’t remember much after that. I crossed over, certainly, but how or where I’m not sure. All I can say is that the world had suddenly been reduced to the size of Homer’s Land Cruiser, and I didn’t have eyes for anything else.

I eventually made it to the window, the same one from which Homer had effected his escape, and looked in. There was water everywhere, the surface littered with the shaggy, sodden remnants of my erstwhile guide’s life. Flies large and small floated in a riot of shapes and colors, soggy rolling papers had washed up on a unopened bag of sour cream and onion potato chips, what looked to be a half eaten Snickers Bar bobbed up and down like a ..... well, you get the idea.

It took me a moment to get my bearings, to see past the detritus and down into the bottom of the truck. He was there, of course, his head by the clutch pedal, his tail extending all the way over to the passenger’s side. May lightning strike me dead if I’m lying. And for a few seconds it seemed, it really seemed, as if his tail was sweeping back and forth to Bob crooning:

“Is this love, is this love, is this love, is this love that I’m feeling? Is this love, is this love, is this love, is this love that I’m feeling?”

There’s no doubt in my mind. It was love. Rastaman Vibration Huge Trout Love.


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Bryan Lanier

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Oct 9, 2014, 3:31:33 PM10/9/14
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I'll have some of what he was smoking. Great Story!

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