--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4c4fa15d-8034-4cfc-a778-cac0b474a21e%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Did some research. Bottom of page 12.
http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/parkmgmt/upload/REV0321_GWMP-Compendium.pdfThis has never been brought to my attention when dealing with the NPS.
Sent from my iPhone
So last night I was fishing the outgoing tide at gravelly point around 2:30 am when a park officer called me out of the water saying the park closed at 12 (I've never heard of the inlet our outflow ever being closed but left without resistance). He then asked to see my license, which I promptly gave him, and we went back to his car. I'm pretty sure he was looking for any excuse to ticket me, because he then sat in his car for about 10 minutes reading up on ordinances and rules. When he returned, he gave me back my licenses and a $130 fine for "Entering the Potomac". Umm, what? I have a court date in June and plan on fighting this. There are no signs or anything else to indicate that A) wading is illegal in the inlet and B) that the inlet is closed at 12am. Curious to hear y'all's thoughts. I've heard of people being hassled by airport police at Gravelly but this is a tad ridiculous.Thanks,Remick--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAG1ZA-sk2hx31%2BEwhOKLU5z6g%2BGyBfcZEvqahx5MS9%3D1weCFgg%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CABaYb1P86akUiw8wGwJmdv3YKjU%3DX%3D%2BHhO9XFSVQctj-T%3Do07A%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
Hi Gene. I’m a biologist that covers the NOVA area, and I’ve lived, fished and worked here most of my life. I’ve never heard of anything such as you describe, and I am inclined to suggest you disregard this bit of hearsay. There is no logical reason for a Park Police Officer (assume NPS) to tell anyone that they cannot wade in a Commonwealth stream. Even if the land is under NPS jurisdiction (perhaps along the Parkway – see http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/mvt-safety.htm), but even then; there should be no issue with wading. I agree with your assertions and will fight to make sure you can practice your hobby in your favorite stream. Please let me know if you have any issues.
PS – the NPS has recently taken a very aggressive stance with anglers and boaters in the Dyke March vicinity, and it has become apparent that some folks are not aware of appropriate rules and regulations that govern these activities. As for our ramp at Gravelly Point, I have been there numerous times; and the facility seems to be functioning as designed. Of course, this means some of what you observe, but those features do come along with a full service boat ramp on a large tidal river. The fishing can be quite good in the boat basin, as most anglers immediately jet away for distant destinations.
So I'm totally unclear -- is GP a park? I've never really paid much attention to the signs around there. What about the duck pond? Isn't that a wildlife refuge or something?
Gene
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CANiFxBxQpFUdtPPoHQt4PpoxWFGWimM9nbB6C6k9Q9f-8LTUzg%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
Just had a long talk with Carl at NPS GW Parkway headquarters up at Turkey Run.
The rule specifically states:
“(e) Swimming. Bathing, swimming or
wading in any fountain or pool except
where officially authorized is prohibited. Bathing, swimming or wading in
the Tidal Basin, the Chesapeake and
Ohio Canal, or Rock Creek, or entering
from other areas covered by this section the Potomac River, Anacostia
River, Washington Channel or Georgetown Channel, except for the purpose of
saving a drowning person, is prohibited.”
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2004-title36-vol1/pdf/CFR-2004-title36-vol1-sec7-96.pdf
That means wading at Gravelly Point is actually illegal. Whether or not you’ve been cited before is irrelevant. Also, the fact that the park was closed is also irrelevant.
Upon further talks, the Duck Pond, despite being fed by the Potomac, is still treated like an inland Virginia waterway even though it’s run by NPS as a wildlife sanctuary and you are allowed to wade fish the Duck Pond provided you have a valid Virginia fishing license.
The real problem here is finding out why you’re not allowed to wade in a navigable waterway “period”.
I suggest anyone wishing to question this regulation write to
Mr. John James, superintendent of the George Washington Memorial Parkway at NPS at the following e-mail address - gwmp_supe...@nps.gov
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Bailey
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 11:00 AM
To: tidal-potomac-fly-rodders
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
When it comes to fishing access in general I believe that law enforcement by each department with jurisdiction tend to look the other way a the majority of the time. A select few may become more strict in certain scenarios. I could see a NPS Police patrol spotting a person in the water geared up at 2:30 AM, near the end of a major airport's runway, may want to investigate and enter it into his or her daily report as a matter resolved. Another hour and a half later Remick may have been in the clear. Area lot opens at 4:00 AM
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CABaYb1Mjxw1GKJbLuYENPLmnWCh1swL1vuz_Dn-GOFRj1Obuww%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
“(e) Swimming. Bathing, swimming or
wading in any fountain or pool except
where officially authorized is prohibited. Bathing, swimming or wading in
the Tidal Basin, the Chesapeake and
Ohio Canal, or Rock Creek, or entering
from other areas covered by this section the Potomac River, Anacostia
River, Washington Channel or Georgetown Channel, except for the purpose of
saving a drowning person, is prohibited.”
To me, it reads a lot like "wading" is meant to be associated with "swimming/bathing" versus a fly fisherman wading while fishing. I seriously, highly doubt that in the 1940s (or whatever) when this was written that they even considered people would fly fish in some of these areas. I'd be curious about how a judge would interpret this given how incredibly vauge it is.
I actually can't believe the officer ticketed Remick based on this language.
So is 4MR considered a "park in the Capital Region"? If so, can you be ticketed for "entering the potomac" while wading at 4MR?
This would seriously limit some of the great places people like to fish -- not good.
Let me know -- I'm willing to help!
Gene
Perhaps someone should open an online donation collection page for legal fees? I'd certainly pay to find out if wadding is legal at one of my favorite fishing spots.... Sorry Dan if this is not allowed on the forum.-Jeff
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Richie,Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.Dalton
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
The provision that clarifies that is this part –“ or entering from other areas covered by this section the Potomac River… …except for the purpose of
saving a drowning person, is prohibited.”
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of TurbineBlade
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:34 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
I am totally willing to help out ($ or time) if Remick wants to go to court with this. I'm pretty lazy and don't really care about most things, but this really matters! And I just read the law and it is extremely poorly written:
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0ca7c91b-ea73-4a3b-b0ed-00cdcc47e42b%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
I specifically asked and he said the Duck Pond does not fall under the rule of Potomac waterway and that you could indeed wade there.
Under these specific rules also, it also means you cannot wade the Potomac anywhere along the C&O Canal where NPS oversees the park.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dalton Terrell
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:21 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Richie,
Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.
Dalton
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/51CEF43E-7F86-4E6C-8957-447D1774EC9D%40robsnowhite.com?hl=en-US.
I called Park Police and the District 2 station in Virginia.
Wading is definitely illegal in the Potomac in the National Capital region – I have to call a Sergeant in that same office later today to get the boundaries of the National Capital region clarified. It should extend all the way to the Woodrow Wilson bridge, but it may also include Montgomery Co. in MD.
The problem is NPS also oversees the C&O Canal, which would mean if Montgomery Co is included, it is illegal to wade all the way upstream to the Monocacy.
I’m making a few phone calls to see if we can get the rules cleared up so I can contact a legislator and find out why it is illegal to wade a navigable river in the nation’s capital.
Regards,
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nowak
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:25 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Perhaps someone should open an online donation collection page for legal fees? I'd certainly pay to find out if wadding is legal at one of my favorite fishing spots.... Sorry Dan if this is not allowed on the forum.
-Jeff
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAEr%2BhrQUNMQ1Ng3V8UdivKuUfDrEifs5ic2vePknRLRca6OKpg%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
I called Park Police and the District 2 station in Virginia.
Wading is definitely illegal in the Potomac in the National Capital region – I have to call a Sergeant in that same office later today to get the boundaries of the National Capital region clarified. It should extend all the way to the Woodrow Wilson bridge, but it may also include Montgomery Co. in MD.
The problem is NPS also oversees the C&O Canal, which would mean if Montgomery Co is included, it is illegal to wade all the way upstream to the Monocacy.
I’m making a few phone calls to see if we can get the rules cleared up so I can contact a legislator and find out why it is illegal to wade a navigable river in the nation’s capital.
Regards,
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rod...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nowak
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:25 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Perhaps someone should open an online donation collection page for legal fees? I'd certainly pay to find out if wadding is legal at one of my favorite fishing spots.... Sorry Dan if this is not allowed on the forum.
-Jeff
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Richie,
Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.
Dalton
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
I specifically asked and he said the Duck Pond does not fall under the rule of Potomac waterway and that you could indeed wade there.
Under these specific rules also, it also means you cannot wade the Potomac anywhere along the C&O Canal where NPS oversees the park.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 <image001.png>
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dalton Terrell
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:21 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Richie,
Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.
Dalton
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0be601ce5d5b%24f1be9810%24d53bc830%24%40com?hl=en-US.
From: Richard Farino <ric...@urbanangler.com>
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
I called Park Police and the District 2 station in Virginia.Wading is definitely illegal in the Potomac in the National Capital region – I have to call a Sergeant in that same office later today to get the boundaries of the National Capital region clarified. It should extend all the way to the Woodrow Wilson bridge, but it may also include Montgomery Co. in MD.
The problem is NPS also oversees the C&O Canal, which would mean if Montgomery Co is included, it is illegal to wade all the way upstream to the Monocacy.I’m making a few phone calls to see if we can get the rules cleared up so I can contact a legislator and find out why it is illegal to wade a navigable river in the nation’s capital.Regards,RRichard FarinoFrom: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nowak
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:25 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly PointPerhaps someone should open an online donation collection page for legal fees? I'd certainly pay to find out if wadding is legal at one of my favorite fishing spots.... Sorry Dan if this is not allowed on the forum.-Jeff
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:Richie,Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.Dalton
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rodders%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAEr%2BhrQUNMQ1Ng3V8UdivKuUfDrEifs5ic2vePknRLRca6OKpg%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0bd101ce5d5b%24882bebf0%249883c3d0%24%40com?hl=en-US.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4CBA454F-C513-4643-A00F-5426C610DC37%40robsnowhite.com?hl=en-US.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0be601ce5d5b%24f1be9810%24d53bc830%24%40com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
I called Park Police and the District 2 station in Virginia.
Wading is definitely illegal in the Potomac in the National Capital region – I have to call a Sergeant in that same office later today to get the boundaries of the National Capital region clarified. It should extend all the way to the Woodrow Wilson bridge, but it may also include Montgomery Co. in MD.
The problem is NPS also oversees the C&O Canal, which would mean if Montgomery Co is included, it is illegal to wade all the way upstream to the Monocacy.
I’m making a few phone calls to see if we can get the rules cleared up so I can contact a legislator and find out why it is illegal to wade a navigable river in the nation’s capital.
Regards,
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potomac-fly-rod...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Nowak
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:25 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Perhaps someone should open an online donation collection page for legal fees? I'd certainly pay to find out if wadding is legal at one of my favorite fishing spots.... Sorry Dan if this is not allowed on the forum.
-Jeff
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 1:20 PM, Dalton Terrell <daltonb...@gmail.com> wrote:
Richie,
Did Carl say that wading was "officially authorized" at Roaches Run? As Rob mentioned, a member of our group was told that wading there was illegal by Park Police a couple years back (see thread here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/illegal$20roaches/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4g52QdS2_u8/HV1y4WZtYIQJ). We might need a lawyer or the court in Remick's case to clarify the proper interpretation of these statutes.
Dalton
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/fa800c17-0a7e-47b2-9b8f-4a83af029092%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
But guys, 2:30am off the end of National Airport at National Park Service land that is posted to close at 10pm? Haven't they been looking the other way for the four years of increasing wade activity coming from this group? Clearly it was the hour that forced the flare up.Of course it revealed a wading law we now all have a chance to change. But when it does, they'll still give people tickets at 230am.Just sayin.--Jeff Cook
This whole thing is bad. There is also the letter of the law and the "Spirit" of the law. Clearly the "Spirit" of the law would exclude people engaged in recreational fishing. The Officer should have used some good old fashioned discretion and warned the poor guy who got the ticket.
This kind of reminds me of the mess going on in the Jackson River. http://www.potomacriverkeeper.org/updates/public-use-virginia%E2%80%99s-public-waterways-threatened
Public outcry could be the one thing that fixes this. It is something that needs to be looked into because those federal lands are for the public's use. We own this land as it is federal public land.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
I was about to say you’re fine since you’d be below the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, but see my next post.
Not good news.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of TurbineBlade
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:12 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Another question - is the Wilson bridge the official "south-most" marker where this "capital area" applies? In other words, if I wanted to wade down by riverview park (near Grist Mill) is this also illegal?
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/720da631-a1c4-4dce-b3f9-bb9c9e49dbd3%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0be601ce5d5b%24f1be9810%24d53bc830%24%40com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4CBA454F-C513-4643-A00F-5426C610DC37%40robsnowhite.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/907edb5f-3b4b-4b39-8a33-ba154bf8c463%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
So I just got off the phone with Sergeant Locasio, who coincidentally issued Remick’s citation.
His interpretation of the regulations as explained to me:
· You may not enter the Potomac anywhere along NPS property. That includes the entire GWMP all the way down to Mt. Vernon, Fort Washington, Great Falls, and the entire C&O Canal. That includes the entire 187.4 mile stretch of the C&O Canal from Georgetown to Cumberland, MD. This also includes the entire GW Memorial Parkway, Harper's Ferry, and any other national park property that provides access to our nation's navigable river.
I’ve made a few phone calls and hope to have more info later tomorrow. We’ve gotten Ducks Unlimited involved, and am waiting to hear from the NPS chief as well as a few lobbyists and Capitol Hill guys.
I’ll update everyone when we hear more and can move on things.
Weird.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
From: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of FlyTimesDC
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:37 PM
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Illegal to wade Gravelly Point
Agreed. The rules need clarification and hopefully we can implement some positive change that everyone can enjoy. As for the 2;30am...when you gotta go, you gotta go, right?
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:11:35 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:
If using the park after-hours is the issue, the ticket should not be for "entering the Potomac" or related to wading -- that's what I'm concerned with.
I get your point about being there at weird hours, but the law needs to be addressed so it's clear that it's either "okay" or "not cool" to wade at these locations everyone here uses.
Gene
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 3:56:50 PM UTC-4, Jeff Cook wrote:
But guys, 2:30am off the end of National Airport at National Park Service land that is posted to close at 10pm? Haven't they been looking the other way for the four years of increasing wade activity coming from this group? Clearly it was the hour that forced the flare up.
Of course it revealed a wading law we now all have a chance to change. But when it does, they'll still give people tickets at 230am.
Just sayin.
--
Jeff Cook
On May 30, 2013, at 1:08 PM, HeaveToo <cpd...@hotmail.com> wrote:
This whole thing is bad. There is also the letter of the law and the "Spirit" of the law. Clearly the "Spirit" of the law would exclude people engaged in recreational fishing. The Officer should have used some good old fashioned discretion and warned the poor guy who got the ticket.
This kind of reminds me of the mess going on in the Jackson River. http://www.potomacriverkeeper.org/updates/public-use-virginia%E2%80%99s-public-waterways-threatened
Public outcry could be the one thing that fixes this. It is something that needs to be looked into because those federal lands are for the public's use. We own this land as it is federal public land.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/fa800c17-0a7e-47b2-9b8f-4a83af029092%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/93d8b80a-6d9f-4953-8b89-949ff397bb2b%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/fa800c17-0a7e-47b2-9b8f-4a83af029092%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/b5dcac67-6259-4837-9780-c7f1477c8bb5%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
Fletcher's is operated by the park service guest services and is inside the c&o park so yup that's included.Great work Richie.
Sent from my iPhone
Does this also include a ban on casting at Fletcher's Cove ?
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 10:08:55 AM UTC-4, FlyTimesDC wrote:So last night I was fishing the outgoing tide at gravelly point around 2:30 am when a park officer called me out of the water saying the park closed at 12 (I've never heard of the inlet our outflow ever being closed but left without resistance). He then asked to see my license, which I promptly gave him, and we went back to his car. I'm pretty sure he was looking for any excuse to ticket me, because he then sat in his car for about 10 minutes reading up on ordinances and rules. When he returned, he gave me back my licenses and a $130 fine for "Entering the Potomac". Umm, what? I have a court date in June and plan on fighting this. There are no signs or anything else to indicate that A) wading is illegal in the inlet and B) that the inlet is closed at 12am. Curious to hear y'all's thoughts. I've heard of people being hassled by airport police at Gravelly but this is a tad ridiculous.--Thanks,Remick
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/6eb67f23-0848-4951-a90a-d3f0216f3bd6%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/WGx3J8J1eo8/unsubscribe?hl=en-US.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/72FB5866-1CA4-423A-9431-325738058B93%40comcast.net?hl=en-US.
true.
true.
Sorry to hear about your misfortune. Please, let me know if there is anything I can do. I think talking to the Park Service is a good plan. The new Secretary of the Interior also fishes; I'm sure she'd be appalled at someone being ticketed for fishing. It might be a good idea for TPFR to approach the Park Service as a group to work something out over time.
So I just got off the phone with Sergeant Locasio, who coincidentally issued Remick’s citation.
His interpretation of the regulations as explained to me:
· You may not enter the Potomac anywhere along NPS property. That includes the entire GWMP all the way down to Mt. Vernon, Fort Washington, Great Falls, and the entire C&O Canal. That includes the entire 187.4 mile stretch of the C&O Canal from Georgetown to Cumberland, MD. This also includes the entire GW Memorial Parkway, Harper's Ferry, and any other national park property that provides access to our nation's navigable river.
I’ve made a few phone calls and hope to have more info later tomorrow. We’ve gotten Ducks Unlimited involved, and am waiting to hear from the NPS chief as well as a few lobbyists and Capitol Hill guys.
I’ll update everyone when we hear more and can move on things.
Weird.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 <image001.png>
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0c9301ce5d8b%246e4424c0%244acc6e40%24%40com?hl=en-US.
Court date is August 1st. Let's bring the thunder.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/cad14404-6710-4fff-aec5-236e69773ae0%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
So, if we can find him, can we make a citizen's arrest of Lefty? Levity aside, shall I post about this contretemps on the NCC-TU Facebook page?
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/cfc4838a-e8ee-4435-bfee-567952baf184%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
Matt Smith pointed me at this thread. My input only applies to the section above Chain Bridge where the river lies in Maryland.
When I wrote my book, I saw the same loosely worded restriction on wading. I brought this up with Brad Clawson who is the (or was...not sure if he is still there) the Chief Ranger of the C&O Canal NHP and asked him to review my chapter on rules and regulations. To make a longer story short, he agreed that fishing is OK and his officers would not ticket wading anglers. In fact, this became an issue last year when a US Park Police officer issued a citation to an angler fishing in the river in the Gorge area. I connected with him again in September 2012 to obtain clarification. He wrote back and agreed to discuss this with them ("I'll let you know if there interpretation is different than mine.") After the meeting he indicated "The USPP agrees that fishing with a PFD on is allowed in the Potomac River in the Gorge" ... to match the C&O interpretation.
While I am certainly not a lawyer and relied on Mr. Clawson for confirmation that the book is correct, it is possible that the interpretation of the Maryland and Federal regulations have changed since late 2012 and, as I indicated in the book, the angler is ultimately responsible for being in compliance.
If anyone knows of a change in policy between Chain Bridge and the upper boundary of Montgomery County, please let me know (steve...@catchguide.com) so I can pull the book out of circulation.
Here is the background:
The river is in Maryland and the Park boundary is the mean high water mark (average over a year). Two things here. First, for the nitpickers the weak argument is that if the river is below the high water mark, you are entering the water from Maryland and if you look at the map, there are a number of places where you can stay on dry land and move onto an island without getting your feet wet and officially be outside the park in Maryland. The Fairfax County Park/NVRPA emphasized this to me when they related the story of "Naked Ned." Ned liked to swim/wade in his birthday suit and the NVRPA could not arrest him in the river... since he was outside of Virginia in Maryland.
Second, Maryland specifically defines fishing as a separate activity from wading as long as you are wearing a PFD. Here is the extract from my book - the text I coordinated with Mr. Clawson:
"In Maryland, the C&O Canal NHP extends the entire length of the river from Chain Bridge all the way up to and beyond Harpers Ferry.
The governing regulation can be found in 36 CFR Ch. 1 (7-1-01 edition).
You can find a current copy of this regulation on the National Park Service website (http://www.nps.gov/nama/planyourvisit/permits.htm).
Here is the section that establishes the regulatory framework for the Potomac covered in this book:
§ 7.96 National Capital Region.
(a) Applicability of regulations. This section applies to all park areas administered by National Capital Region in the District of Columbia and in Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, Prince William, and Stafford Counties and the City of Alexandria in Virginia and Prince Georges, Charles, Anne Arundel, and Montgomery Counties in Maryland and to other federal reservations in the environs of the District of Columbia, policed with the approval or concurrence of the head of the agency having jurisdiction or control over such reservations, pursuant to the provisions of the act of March 17, 1948 (62 Stat. 81).
Basically, what this says is that the regulations in subsequent paragraphs are applicable to the entire extent of the C&O Canal NHP up to the northern boundary of Montgomery County as well as to the George Washington Memorial Parkway that sits across the river in Fairfax County.
Here are the specific sections that govern your activity on federal property:
(d) Fishing. Unless otherwise designated, fishing in a manner authorized under applicable State law is allowed.
(e) Swimming. Bathing, swimming or wading in any fountain or pool except where officially authorized is prohibited. Bathing, swimming or wading in the Tidal Basin, the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal, or Rock Creek, or entering from other areas covered by this section the Potomac River, Anacostia River, Washington Channel or Georgetown Channel, except for the purpose of saving a drowning person, is prohibited.
Section 7.96(d) confirms that Maryland regulations apply to fishing in the Potomac River. Maryland does not prohibit wading while fishing. In fact, Maryland has its own view, specifically authorizing fishing/wading with a few constraints, which I discuss in the next section.
Section 7.96(e) prohibits swimming, bathing and wading and the word "or" connects those activities to entering the Potomac River from Park property. The boundary between the Park and Maryland is the mean high water mark with the river rising and falling with the weather.
The interpretation of these two sections matters because there are a number of access points that have prominent "No Wading" signs displayed. Does wading include fishing or is it separate?
I discussed this with the Chief Ranger of the C&O Canal NHP and he told me that Maryland law prevails. Since Maryland law defines fishing as a different activity than wading and section 7.96(d) defers to state law regarding fishing, the C&O Canal NHP permits anglers to wade while fishing. Since this book will be in print for years and regulations will evolve, I recommend that you take one additional step to ensure that you fall in the "fishing" category. A close read of section 7.96(e) reveals that there are three things that the Park wants to constrain; swimming, bathing, and wading. Typically, individuals engaged those activities do not do them while wearing a PFD. Therefore, if you wear a PFD, you push yourself farther into the fishing category. Besides, in the areas specifically called out with the signs, it's the prudent and safe thing to do.
Maryland State Regulations
In addition to the generic guidance from Maryland quoted in the common sense section, there are specific restrictions associated with the more dangerous areas of the Potomac. These are captured in Title 08 (Department of Natural Resources), Subtitle 06 (Recreational Water Uses), Chapter 01 (Potomac River Safety) of the Maryland code.
Specifically, section 03 establishes two special regulatory zones:
Zone A. A person may not enter the Potomac River for the purpose of recreational use in that portion of the Potomac River beginning 200 yards above the crest of Aqueduct Intake Dam (Great Falls) and extending downstream to the base of Stubblefield Falls.
Zone B. A person may not enter the Potomac River for the purpose of recreational use in that portion of the Potomac River beginning 100 yards above the crest of Dam No. 1 (Brookmont Dam) and extending downstream to the western Maryland and District of Columbia boundary line.
The law goes on to further define "recreational use" in section 08.06.01.02 and makes an exception for fishing:
(2) Recreational Use.
(a) "Recreational use" means activities on the Potomac River, including swimming, bathing, wading, diving, tubing, rafting, and other uses involving contact with the water.
(b) "Recreational use" does not include:
(i) Boating, if each person involved is wearing the U.S. Coast Guard approved flotation device required by law or regulation;
(ii) Fishing, when a U.S. Coast Guard approved personal flotation device is worn;
(iii) Life-saving efforts;
(iv) Swimming or wading as part of a training course having the prior written approval of the Department of Natural Resources or U.S. Park Service.
The bottom line is that if you fish in the two special zones, you must wear a PFD.
One final point is that the above regulation is in conflict with the quote I pulled from the Maryland DNR publication that indicated “Wading in the waters around Great Falls is prohibited.” I was unable to find that in a state law, but fully agree that it should be a law. It may exist… buried in the code somewhere.
It is this section of Maryland law, until changed or reinterpreted, that provides the opportunity for anglers to wade while fishing in compliance with the federal regulation:
(d) Fishing. Unless otherwise designated, fishing in a manner authorized under applicable State law is allowed.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/6a0c8b37-f9ab-4bbc-a09a-bd35d72abe7b%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/fa800c17-0a7e-47b2-9b8f-4a83af029092%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/5d68b1a8-d477-435d-b760-d58b8482f1f4%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
Thank you for your email noting your concerns about the regulations regarding wading in waters under the control of the National Park Service, specifically 36 CFR 7.96 (e).
The George Washington Memorial Parkway (GWMP) is patrolled by officers from the United States Park Police District 2 Station. The District 2 Station Commander is Lt. Jerry Marshall, who is currently on leave therefore I will address your email.
Before I address your questions, I must advise you that I cannot discuss the citation per se, as it was issued to another person and is pending court proceedings.
The U.S. Park Police officers that patrol the GWMP, are dedicated to providing the highest level of police service possible. They are tasked with enforcing the laws and regulations of the United States Codes, 36 Code of Federal Regulations, applicable State laws, laws of the District of Columbia and Park Compendiums. They however cannot detect every violation of the law nor cite every violator. Therefore, some violations may repeatedly occur undetected, causing some confusion with individuals believing the acts are accepted or legal. However, citizens should research and review all regulations applicable to areas they visit or engage in activities at.
36 CFR 7.96 (e), specifically states, “Bathing, swimming or wading in any fountain or pool except where officially authorized is prohibited. Bathing, swimming or wading in the Tidal Basin, the Chesapeake and Ohio Canal, or Rock Creek, or entering from other areas covered by this section the Potomac River, Anacostia River, Washington Channel or Georgetown Channel, except for the purpose of saving a drowning person, is prohibited.
You make reference to “the Duck Pond”, which I presume is actually the “Roaches Run Waterfowl Sanctuary” (RRWS), located west of the GWMP, adjacent the Roaches Run parking area. Gravelly Point lies on the east side of the GWMP across the road from this area. If so, then to answer your questions, this area (RRWS) is considered part of the Potomac River, managed and controlled by the National Park Service and has the same restrictions.
The “Applicability and Scope” of 36 CFR is outlined in 36 CFR 1.2, which in part states:
“(a) The regulations contained in this chapter apply to all persons entering, using, visiting, or otherwise within:” …
…“(3) Waters subject to the jurisdiction of the United States located within the boundaries of the National Park System, including navigable waters and areas within their ordinary reach (up to the mean high water line in places subject to the ebb and flow of the tide and up to the ordinary high water mark in other places) and without regard to the ownership of submerged lands, tidelands, or lowlands;”
These regulations are designed to promote the highest level of public safety and resource protection.
You can review these and other regulations applicable to the GWMP on their website at, http://www.nps.gov/gwmp/index.htm, under “Laws & Policies”.
I hope this answers your questions and appreciate you taking the time to provide us with your concerns.
Should you ever have an emergency or require police service, please contact the United States Park Police Communications Section at 202-610-7500. (Non-emergency: 202-610-7505)
Several days ago I emailed NPS and they just now responded to me. I read it and thanked him for his response --Contrasting with what Rich was told, this guy told me that Roaches Run is managed no differently than Gravelly Point and that it is equally illegal to wade there as well.Just thought I'd toss this out there in case anyone was still fishing RRWR -- I don't want to see anyone else getting ticketed.Hopefully we can do some "convincing" with the higher-ups and secure these spots so there isn't so much confusion about what the law is.Gene
On Monday, June 3, 2013 9:26:51 AM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:Starting a petition is an excellent idea but I would suggest having an electronic petition. Friends of the Chesapeake Bay did this in the past and it enables us to get the issue out to a larger group of people and get more attention to the issue.
Virginia outdoors men and women are environmental and conservation minded. A lot of the money from our licenses goes towards conservation. You also will see a large majority of fly fishermen practicing catch and release and safe fish handing methods. All of these factors should put good light on us as a group.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/acfe6c09-23d4-4cf0-93c0-467e574b7f54%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/d87ad.5deb786.3edf3fed%40aol.com?hl=en-US.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/WGx3J8J1eo8/unsubscribe?hl=en-US.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/CAKcSCqx1%3DacpHmdmhjciX44dpFLJ3vTihpW3Gb8Q-pLF2gznVg%40mail.gmail.com?hl=en-US.
My apartment overlooks Roaches Run and virtually every day, including yesterday, I see one or more people wading and fishing in there. Also kayakers who, presumably, have to get their feet wet (wade) when they launch.Stuart
In a message dated 6/4/2013 5:55:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, doubl...@gmail.com writes:
Several days ago I emailed NPS and they just now responded to me. I read it and thanked him for his response --Contrasting with what Rich was told, this guy told me that Roaches Run is managed no differently than Gravelly Point and that it is equally illegal to wade there as well.Just thought I'd toss this out there in case anyone was still fishing RRWR -- I don't want to see anyone else getting ticketed.Hopefully we can do some "convincing" with the higher-ups and secure these spots so there isn't so much confusion about what the law is.Gene--
On Monday, June 3, 2013 9:26:51 AM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:Starting a petition is an excellent idea but I would suggest having an electronic petition. Friends of the Chesapeake Bay did this in the past and it enables us to get the issue out to a larger group of people and get more attention to the issue.
Virginia outdoors men and women are environmental and conservation minded. A lot of the money from our licenses goes towards conservation. You also will see a large majority of fly fishermen practicing catch and release and safe fish handing methods. All of these factors should put good light on us as a group.
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/4b4b503a-a9f0-4651-9daa-1c2ca9f4764f%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
I got the same exact response.
I’m going to pen a message here in about 20 minutes letting you guys know exactly what I’m doing and where I’m at.
R
Richard Farino
Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street 2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314
(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/95beed82-4a65-4823-b22d-5452a46155cf%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0f7001ce613c%24e656e6f0%24b304b4d0%24%40com?hl=en-US.
I have been giving this matter a lot of thought lately. Looking at the language in the statute, it would seem that prohibited actions are all related to one activity, i.e. swimming. That is entering the water to Bathe, swim, or wade are all activities that can fall under the general heading of swimming. I believe that a strong argument can be made that the term "wade" relates to the swimming definition of the term, not the use we apply as fisherman. As is known in law, ambiguity in a statute goes against the drafter, I think that an argument can be made that the statute is ambiguous. Remick might want to consider arguing that he did not interpret the statute to cover wading in the fishing sense, but rather the statute only covered wading in the swimming sense. Just a thought.
Moving forward, we may want to enter into discussions with the Park Service to see how we may be able to wade safely. The purpose of the statute would seem to be safety related. The Park Service can cite to the number of fisherman that drown every year to support why wading should be prohibited. We could propose that fisherman should wear a PFD when entering the water to fish.
--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/7aa49921-10fa-4538-b2a3-4c4f60c07635%40googlegroups.com?hl=en-US.
So last night I was fishing the outgoing tide at gravelly point around 2:30 am when a park officer called me out of the water saying the park closed at 12 (I've never heard of the inlet our outflow ever being closed but left without resistance). He then asked to see my license, which I promptly gave him, and we went back to his car. I'm pretty sure he was looking for any excuse to ticket me, because he then sat in his car for about 10 minutes reading up on ordinances and rules. When he returned, he gave me back my licenses and a $130 fine for "Entering the Potomac". Umm, what? I have a court date in June and plan on fighting this. There are no signs or anything else to indicate that A) wading is illegal in the inlet and B) that the inlet is closed at 12am. Curious to hear y'all's thoughts. I've heard of people being hassled by airport police at Gravelly but this is a tad ridiculous.Thanks,Remick
One more -- based on this ticket, could you be ticketed wading 4MR for "entering the Potomac"?Gene
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:10:19 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:Also add -- anyone who fishes GP really should send at least a concerned message about this. Remick received a ticket, but it could have just as easily been me or anyone else out there.Law is law, but there's a certain unethical feeling when the officer had to look up the regulations in a book in order to determine how to craft a ticket. If NPS doesn't even understand the law well, it seems to me that a simple warning follow up with better signage at GP would suffice.Gene
On Thursday, May 30, 2013 1:03:46 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:Thanks for posting this Rich -- I just sent a quick message.Another question is this -- if wading rock creek is illegal except for the purpose of saving a drowning person, how is it that DC government (DDOE) water quality is able to electroshock 3 sections of it every year legally? Are they in violation of the law for doing this? I worked there for 2 years and never even gave a thought to whether wading was legal or not.Gene