Curve casts

[TurbineBlade]

Hi - I remember a recent article which indicated that you can throw a curve cast either by overpowering the forward cast, or by twisting the wrist at the end of the forward casting stroke.  

I think that they are easy enough to do by using a more side arm cast and overpowering it (and/or using an untapered leader), but I cannot for the life of me understand how twisting your wrist could possibly accomplish this.  It makes no sense to me....the rod still moves in the same direction, so how does the fly line read your mind and determine that you want the last few feet of it to kink into a 90 degree bend? 

Gene

[John Bilotta]

Gene,

it is a twisting or turning of the wrist  during the final acceleration phase of the forward cast.  The motion  takes the rod tip from a straight path and makes an abrupt  curved path of the tip.

The curve can be done in either direction, but is easiest to do by twisting or rotating the wrist to the inside.

I hope that helps. Remind me next time I see you.

John

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[TurbineBlade]

So you do change the tip path? -- gotcha.  I'll make that next clinic -- 

Thanks,

Gene

On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 4:05:16 PM UTC-4, John wrote:

Gene,

it is a twisting or turning of the wrist  during the final acceleration phase of the forward cast.  The motion  takes the rod tip from a straight path and makes an abrupt  curved path of the tip.

The curve can be done in either direction, but is easiest to do by twisting or rotating the wrist to the inside.

I hope that helps. Remind me next time I see you.

John

On Sep 25, 2013, at 3:48 PM, TurbineBlade wrote:

Hi - I remember a recent article which indicated that you can throw a curve cast either by overpowering the forward cast, or by twisting the wrist at the end of the forward casting stroke.  

I think that they are easy enough to do by using a more side arm cast and overpowering it (and/or using an untapered leader), but I cannot for the life of me understand how twisting your wrist could possibly accomplish this.  It makes no sense to me....the rod still moves in the same direction, so how does the fly line read your mind and determine that you want the last few feet of it to kink into a 90 degree bend? 

Gene

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[Dalton Terrell]

Gene,

Have you already tried reach mending? Unless you are casting around an obstacle, this is much easier to get correct than curving the cast. Check out this good video if you are not: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14njsZy47qg 

Dalton

[TurbineBlade]

Sure Dalton -- I use a fairly crappy reach cast sometimes with dries, but more often than not I seem to use a "drag" mend when fishing wets.  I know it is poor presentation, but usually with current I figure most fish aren't aware of the initial drag before the swing ;).  Sometimes I'm able to mend over big rocks in current without the fly moving at all, but I only nail it about 10% of the time.  Usually I jerk the fly a bit -- too heavy handed and impatient, and unskilled.  

Actually, mending is one of those things that I think most people would learn naturally without any teaching simply because it's the only way to get a natural drift in current.  What I mean is that I think most people would figure out to keep the fly line upstream of the fly (reach cast) during the actual cast just due to experience with the results of NOT doing it (obvious drag).  If that makes sense.  A caveman would be mending with no instruction in 1-2 days of fishing.  And not only the Geico ones.  

I was using a curve cast the other day to actually put beetles around this bush to reach a good spot -- so not really an instance for a reach cast so much as a true curve.  I get "okay" results with the overpowering (tuck cast) kind of curve, but not the twister kind.  

Gene

[Scott Stankus]

Gene - seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKtmlVMgWPU

--Scott

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[Eric Y.]

I use the wrist-twist method because I find that I am more accurate changing the path of the rod tip than I am applying too much power - plus, most of the banks I want a fly to swim up against are pretty tall and I got hung up A LOT and spooked a lot of fish trying to get a fly back when I was trying to curve cast by overpowering. I'm no pro at it, but it works well enough and isn't too difficult. 

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:56:02 AM UTC-4, Scott S wrote:

Gene - seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKtmlVMgWPU

--Scott

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi - I remember a recent article which indicated that you can throw a curve cast either by overpowering the forward cast, or by twisting the wrist at the end of the forward casting stroke.  

I think that they are easy enough to do by using a more side arm cast and overpowering it (and/or using an untapered leader), but I cannot for the life of me understand how twisting your wrist could possibly accomplish this.  It makes no sense to me....the rod still moves in the same direction, so how does the fly line read your mind and determine that you want the last few feet of it to kink into a 90 degree bend? 

Gene

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[TurbineBlade]

Still though -- how does it work? Does it just place the rod tip slightly to the left at the very end of hte stroke and the fly line (as a result) just whips around in a mirror image of itself?  

It seems like it still requires a bit of power to get the line to flip around.....are you sure the "twist" isn't just an illusion and that the curve is just the result of stopping the rod more abruptly?  

I need to tinker with it and I'm obviously not a great caster, but I'm willing to bet that with a fairly gentle stroke and stop, and a twist, that no curve will result.  

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

Or maybe the "twist" forces you to throw a cast more to the side than vertically at the very end, resulting in the curve?  

What about a 100% vertical cast, and you do NOT change the path of your hand?  

It feels like twisting causes your hand to clench more tightly, and your stop to be firmer, which to me sounds more like overpowering the stop is the culprit.  

Either way this is very, very important.  I'll stay up all night if I have to researching it! 

Gene

[Jeffrey Silvan]

Try putting a pen or ruler in your hand and twisting your wrist (without making the casting motion - the same thing will happen while making a casting motion, but it's not as dramatically noticable). Watch what happens to the tip of the pen when you do it naturally. Now, try to twist your wrist while keeping the pen in a straight line. It is possible, but really uncomfortable. Imagine trying to do that while you're actually casting, and you'll see why the natural wrist twist changes the motion of the rod tip.

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[Dalton Terrell]

Gene, I think I know what you are getting at. You are saying that a curve cast requires the loop to over-rotate (not sure if this is right phrase here) as it unfurls, which I think is correct. Either way, it would be worth checking out some curve casts from Bilotta to see if this has to be the case.

For what it's worth, if you watch the video that Scott linked, it looks like even the experts aren't 100% successful in making this cast go where they want it.

Dalton

[Eric Y.]

Just tie on some yarn and go cast out in the yard. You can do it very gently and still get a nice curve. You're right that the loop has to come around straight and then some if you're getting a curve from overpowering a sidearm cast. The wrist-twist isn't quite the same. Ever just played around and thrown spiral loops on your forward cast by drawing tiny circles with your rod tip as you're casting? I know that's an odd way to explain it, but everyone's tried it. The wrist twist is basically doing that, but just to 90* right at the end of the cast. Your rod tip will draw a little "C" shape in the air and your line will have to curve with it. Watch the Orvis video above - the instructor is definitely not putting much power into the wrist-twist cast and there is a very pronounced 90* turn in his wrist (look at the 2:47 mark).  I promise it works - give it a shot. 

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:58:27 AM UTC-4, Jeff Silvan wrote:

Try putting a pen or ruler in your hand and twisting your wrist (without making the casting motion - the same thing will happen while making a casting motion, but it's not as dramatically noticable). Watch what happens to the tip of the pen when you do it naturally. Now, try to twist your wrist while keeping the pen in a straight line. It is possible, but really uncomfortable. Imagine trying to do that while you're actually casting, and you'll see why the natural wrist twist changes the motion of the rod tip.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:53 AM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Still though -- how does it work? Does it just place the rod tip slightly to the left at the very end of hte stroke and the fly line (as a result) just whips around in a mirror image of itself?  

It seems like it still requires a bit of power to get the line to flip around.....are you sure the "twist" isn't just an illusion and that the curve is just the result of stopping the rod more abruptly?  

I need to tinker with it and I'm obviously not a great caster, but I'm willing to bet that with a fairly gentle stroke and stop, and a twist, that no curve will result.  

Gene

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 10:29:29 AM UTC-4, Eric Y. wrote:

I use the wrist-twist method because I find that I am more accurate changing the path of the rod tip than I am applying too much power - plus, most of the banks I want a fly to swim up against are pretty tall and I got hung up A LOT and spooked a lot of fish trying to get a fly back when I was trying to curve cast by overpowering. I'm no pro at it, but it works well enough and isn't too difficult. 

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:56:02 AM UTC-4, Scott S wrote:

Gene - seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKtmlVMgWPU

--Scott

On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 3:48 PM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi - I remember a recent article which indicated that you can throw a curve cast either by overpowering the forward cast, or by twisting the wrist at the end of the forward casting stroke.  

I think that they are easy enough to do by using a more side arm cast and overpowering it (and/or using an untapered leader), but I cannot for the life of me understand how twisting your wrist could possibly accomplish this.  It makes no sense to me....the rod still moves in the same direction, so how does the fly line read your mind and determine that you want the last few feet of it to kink into a 90 degree bend? 

Gene

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[TurbineBlade]

I watched the Orvis guy and it still kind of looks like he's essentially inverting a sideways loop to kick around to the left.  To me, there's little difference between doing that crisp twist to the left vs. doing a good stiff stop from a sideways cast.  

I guess it doesn't really matter how it happens -- it still works and serves a purpose ;).  I need to try it out more this weekend --

Obviously when you're the only one who has an idea about something and most everyone else doesn't agree, you're the nut ;).  You just have to realize it!  

They say if you're at a large family gathering and you can't spot the idiot.............it's you.  

Thanks guys -- 

Gene

[Rob Snowhite]

Pretend your cork is a jai alai basket and you are trying to throw the ball to your left and behind you then stop your hand. 

Sent from my iPhone

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