Gravelly Point Legal Issue?

[HeaveToo]

What ever happened to the guy who was charged with fishing at night at Gravelly Point?  Did anyone get a resolve to the legality of wading and fishing at Gravelly Point?

I am just curious because we should start seeing the stripers run in a few weeks.

[Rob Snowhite]

Stripers have been active there all summer. No need to wait for a few weeks.

[HeaveToo]

Did we ever figure out if we can wade there without being ticketed?

Is the bite on or is it slow?

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

[FlyTimesDC]

I heard he's in jail.  The rule states that you can't enter the Potomac anywhere from GWMP land which includes the inlet, that's what that vagrant got ticketed for. I haven't heard of it being enforced at all this summer outside of that incident (which was in the wee hours of the morning) so you should be OK but then again, you never know where Sargent Loccosio is lurking.....

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

Uneven application of unclear regulations = bad policy.  

Gene

[Richard Farino]

I finally heard back from legal at NPS, and they're just gathering info so they can clarify the one minor issue as to why the C&O compendium states "wading prohibited (except fishing)" and the GWMP compendium does not.

Will keep everyone up to speed once he clarifies.  This last response took 2 months and 2 extra e-mails to hound them for a response.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

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[TurbineBlade]

That's excellent Rich -- thanks for keeping up on this, I know I certainly appreciate it.  

I guess once they (NPS) actually decides what the policy is, we can then begin to try to change some opinions in a productive way.    

Gene

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 11:44:57 AM UTC-4, Richard Farino wrote:

I finally heard back from legal at NPS, and they're just gathering info so they can clarify the one minor issue as to why the C&O compendium states "wading prohibited (except fishing)" and the GWMP compendium does not.

Will keep everyone up to speed once he clarifies.  This last response took 2 months and 2 extra e-mails to hound them for a response.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:59 AM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Gravelly Point Legal Issue?

Uneven application of unclear regulations = bad policy.  

Gene

On Thursday, September 5, 2013 10:54:47 AM UTC-4, FlyTimesDC wrote:

I heard he's in jail.  The rule states that you can't enter the Potomac anywhere from GWMP land which includes the inlet, that's what that vagrant got ticketed for. I haven't heard of it being enforced at all this summer outside of that incident (which was in the wee hours of the morning) so you should be OK but then again, you never know where Sargent Loccosio is lurking.....

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

What ever happened to the guy who was charged with fishing at night at Gravelly Point?  Did anyone get a resolve to the legality of wading and fishing at Gravelly Point?

I am just curious because we should start seeing the stripers run in a few weeks.

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[McFly]

You guys have to see that this guy was fishing in an area that's closed at night next to an airport on the door step of the nations capital. It comes a time when you have to say that was a stupid thing to do and no fish is worth a run in with the US park police or homeland security. There are plenty of spots on the Potomac to fish do you really have to be in a closed area, in the water next to a runway gate at night after 9/11 just next to Washington.

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

I think this has already been spelled out many times in the other thread when you basically said the exact same thing -- but other people reading this thread might be confused about why anyone would care if Remick was indeed fishing "after hours" and received a ticket. So a quick summary:  

Remick was fishing after hours and was ticketed.  The ticket was not for "fishing/entering the park after hours" but was instead for the nebulous "entering the water/river".  Since most people who've waded Gravelly Point had no idea that there was a prohibition against wading, this ticket is troublesome to *some of the people in this club.  Given, being there after hours could have conceivably raised the hackles on the NPS officer -- and I think if Remick were indeed ticketed for entering the park after hours, no one on here would be involved with any of this (though I've met Remick and he's a nice guy -- I'm sure he wouldn't be offended by this and would probably agree).  

So it is what the ticket says that has resulted in all this back and forth.  Hopefully that helps anyone who didn't see the other thread - 

I will not respond to anything else you say because I believe your posts basically read "Remick is stupid", but man I'm glad I don't work for a shop, guide, etc. where I'd have to pretend to be polite to people like you.  

Gene

[HeaveToo]

I wouldn't have raised the question if the charge was entering the park after closing or after nightfall.  The issue is the law on the books against wading in that area.  I was wondering if anyone has heard anything more. 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

[Richard Farino]

Still working on it.  Trying to get answers from NPS is like pulling teeth, but it's coming along slowly.

As it stands, everything people have been writing is in fact law, but there is a discrepancy in several compendiums.  Right now they're checking legal documents.

Basically, there is no entering the Potomac PERIOD within the boundaries of Washington D.C.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: HeaveToo <cpd...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:39 AM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Gravelly Point Legal Issue?

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[Brendan]

sorry should have posted an update earlier. thought i had but guess not. 

asked a member of congress w/ oversight of the park service to look into and currently as the rules are written and the park service maintains that it is illegal to wade at gravelly. 

Gene - as i said in the other thread, hard to take too much from what the ticket said..maybe the officer was being nice and a ticket for wading is less $$ and less serious than entering the park after hours. who knows. 

still have never heard of anyone having a problem during hours the park is open. perhaps letting it be is the best option unless they start ticketing during the day? changing park service rules on this issue will be nearly impossible with an enforcement backlash the most likely outcome. 

A few weeks ago i got a $100 parking ticket for moving my car out of a 4pm zone at 3:59 (according to my cell) but the meter maid's device (and resulting ticket) said 4:01. i tried to argue, polite and with as much respect as i could fake, but now she's waiting by my car at 3:55 everyday. kinda think we should just let this one go and move on. 

On Monday, September 16, 2013 11:15:35 AM UTC-4, Richard Farino wrote:

Still working on it.  Trying to get answers from NPS is like pulling teeth, but it's coming along slowly.

As it stands, everything people have been writing is in fact law, but there is a discrepancy in several compendiums.  Right now they're checking legal documents.

Basically, there is no entering the Potomac PERIOD within the boundaries of Washington D.C.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: HeaveToo <cpd...@hotmail.com>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, September 16, 2013 9:39 AM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Gravelly Point Legal Issue?

I wouldn't have raised the question if the charge was entering the park after closing or after nightfall.  The issue is the law on the books against wading in that area.  I was wondering if anyone has heard anything more. 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

What ever happened to the guy who was charged with fishing at night at Gravelly Point?  Did anyone get a resolve to the legality of wading and fishing at Gravelly Point?

I am just curious because we should start seeing the stripers run in a few weeks.

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http://www.tpfr.org
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[Rob Snowhite]

We can always put ladders out there #loophole

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013 2:35:07 PM UTC-4, HeaveToo wrote:

[Richard DeafFly Lin]

haha it is so funny!!!! So it is not wading and we can do that there?