trout beads vs egg flies

[Danny Barrett]

I know this could be a controversial topic...I apologize

 

So I've seen some articles about using trout beads and a hook 2 inches behind the bead.  These articles claim its legal and is less likely to hook a steelhead in a way that might harm it.  Wanted to see what the groups opinion on these were?  I have not bought any yet, but it seems like a good idea and they are a lot cheaper then egg flies.  Regardless of what type of egg style people use more, what sizes or colors work best up in the lake Erie tribs?

Thanks,

 

Danny

dannyt...@gmail.com

(540)-222-8064

[TurbineBlade]

.....given that the surest way to "not harm" any fish is to simply not fish for it right?  Then you avoid the task of having to rationalize the use of a sharpened piece of steel to feel a fish struggling for its life on the end of your line, only to (bizarre to the caveman) release it afterward....and argue with everyone about why you do it more ethically, etc.  *end devil's advocate ;)  

I don't fish for steelhead and don't know enough about the regs (in NY, or Ohio, or wherever people go)  to have an opinion on this particular technique (fly?) -- I'm interested in hearing others though.  Fly fishing attracts a very, very wide array of opinions on things like this.  Mine are very clear at this point, so I won't add anything more.  

Gene ("Poor and lonely")

[Rob Snowhite]

I've never fished beads on a peg above a hook so no experienced info from my end. However, Evan from The Open Fly Podcast has mentioned that egg flies tend to cause more damage as more often they go deeper in the fish's throat. Pegged beads as Evan stated do not get swallowed. I'll try and get him to chime in. 

Sent from my iPhone

--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/d430e658-c736-4167-8f17-05186309de93%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Carl Smolka]

Been fishing beads for chromers on the Erie tribs for a couple of years with moderate success. Go-to colors are peach roe and glow roe in size 8mm on 06 bead hooks.  I have never pegged the bead, opting for using the bead knot. Recommend checking out www.troutbeads.com for rigging instructions and testimonials. I have never foul hooked a fish using the bead setup with the bead about 2” above the hook.

Tight lines,

Carl

 

 

Dr. Carl M. Smolka

Project Healing Waters at Fort Meade

www.facebook.com/groups/105267782931371/

 

(h) 301 929 1365

(m) 240 994 0093

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/0E12213C-5450-4AFC-96AC-45F9F5D4B263%40robsnowhite.com.

[Yambag Nelson]

Most of the guys using egg patterns are lining fish anyway and I'd imagine beads are doing pretty much the same thing. 

 

If you are going to fish beads, you might as well just get a meat chucker and start throwing skein because neither are really fly fishing.

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:38:28 PM UTC-4, Danny Barrett wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

Yes!!  Now my evening will be complete!  I've been writing my first book for the last several months titled "The 7 Do's and 54,000 do not do's of fly fishing".  Oh baby, that bead lining thing is going in there once I get home!  

Gene

[Andy Thomas]

The only time I've ever used them was with a guide on the Colorado River in Lees Ferry, AZ.  The fishery there (at least when fly fishing) is predominantly nymphing and about 98% rainbow trout.  He had some in his box that we tried a little.  He said he had about the same luck with the troutbeads as will regular egg patterns.  Ultimately the trout were keyed in on midges that day. 

 

Anyhow, to be honest, I've never fished for steelhead so I can't comment as to how they may be foul hooked any different than trout, but I thought the trout beads appeared to be about as effective as a regular egg pattern.  Despite the hook being below the actual egg, the fish is hooked exactly the same--you raise the rod tip and it pulls the hook into the flesh of the mouth of the fish.  Now, theoretically, I think the troutbead rig could actually induce hooksets outside of the fish's mouth given that the hook is about 2" away from the bead.  For example, if the fish takes the bead but the hook remains outside of the mouth and you raise your rod tip, you will likely hook the fish outside of the mouth (on the lip, gills, eye, etc.), if you even hook the fish at all.  That's just me theorizing...

 

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:38:28 PM UTC-4, Danny Barrett wrote:

[Misha Gill]

Hahah nice I was hoping you would respond Gene...

[Danny Barrett]

Thank you all for the input and advice. I finally got a hold of PA boat and fish. As of now it's legal method of fishing. Not sure if I'll try them or not.

Dan Barrett
540-222-8064

--

http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/79a1b37b-e6b2-4766-a97e-f554b5238b8f%40googlegroups.com.

[Smalliefly]

Yambag,

  Posts like yours do nothing to help anyone and simply fuel the stereotype that "you" fly fishers are pompous jerks.  Have to say "you" because I probably do not count as a fly fisher in your book.  Guess that is my gain.  Assume that you only fish a dry after you have seen a fish rise and such…

  The egg fisher stereotype was not terrible (but still an overgeneralizing stereotype), but the follow on about meat chucker and skein does absolutely no help to anyone, especially the original poster trying to figure out a new way to catch a fish (and check for peoples experiences, if it is legal, if it reduces foul hookups, etc).  And since he read it in a "fly fishing" magazine, that magazine must not be worthy of your version of "true" fly fishing. 

  Oh, wait, don't I recall you posting about fishing a woolly bugger and a Clouser?  You may as well get a spinning rod and throw some marabou jigs and bucktail jigs because you surely were not fly fishing.

Have a good evening!

 

[Yambag Nelson]

It was not a stereotype, it is a fact.  I don't know how much time you have spent on the great lakes tribs, but it is a fact that a lot of the guys fishing egg patterns are unintentionally (or in many cases intentionally) lining fish.  So I did answer his question regarding foul hookups.  It happens a lot more than people would like to admit.  Also, nowhere did he mention reading it in a flyfishing magazine so you make want to work on your reading comprehension.  I'm guessing he read it on the internet and not in flyfishing magazine but who knows.  I would cancel my subscription if that was the kind of crap they were writing about.   

You seem very sensitive on this topic.  I honestly don't care how people fish as long as it is legal/ethical but this is a flyfishing forum last I checked.   Not sure why we are discussing other techniques here, surely there is a more appropriate forum somewhere.

Your last point is just retarded. 

[TurbineBlade]

[Matthew Longley]

Everyone wanna calm down?

Danny I've heard the argument too, and I've also heard that you're more likely with a bead to hook a fish straight in the eye.  I honestly have no idea.

I've hooked a bunch of steelhead on egg patterns, and they've all been clean lip hooks.  So not sure about steelhead swallowing flies either.

As for colors, everyone up there will tell you whats hot.  Whether you believe them or not is up to you.  I've heard blue, orange, yellow, pink, etc.  Never really caught a fish on blue.  My go-to (where it's legal) is a pink lead fly (generally flashier) followed by a more muted orange or yellow or yellow/green.

On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 2:38:28 PM UTC-4, Danny Barrett wrote:

[Uncle Keith]

Actually, any presentation - other than a presentation that incorporates a float - would appear to be an attempt at lining/flossing/lifting/snagging... so, one can either opt for fishing with an indicator, or skip the fly gear and fish with a float fishing set up to avoid the appearance of attempting to snag fish.

Keep in mind that the lifting/flossing/lining/snagging contingent use fly rods & reels for their "style of fishing". They fish during low-flow conditions, in fast water, where the fish tend to aggregate. (I chalk up this Poor Behavior to an Impulse Control Personality Deficiency.)

[TurbineBlade]

Well, in any case -- we certainly wouldn't want to state the regulations and just go with that.  That would be stupid!  

Instead, I think we should continue bashing what might be legal fishing methods (and according to Rob, if anything, potentially beneficial) based upon our feelings.  

Because with fly fishing! -- following the law just isn't good enough.  It's an elite brotherhood!  This book is writing itself!  

[Scott Stankus]

Gene - is that a portrait of you?

--Scott

--

http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/a8d51124-6d44-4b54-89a9-1ea34b24ad0f%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

================================================

"There are 10 types of people in this world, those who know binary, and those who don't"

[TurbineBlade]

Actually I'm the guy getting drenched outside -- as a crofter, I wasn't accepted into the upper fly fishing circles and I couldn't afford an umbrella that would cover my back.  

Gene

On Friday, September 12, 2014 10:52:40 AM UTC-4, Scott S wrote:

Gene - is that a portrait of you?

--Scott

On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 10:47 AM, TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well, in any case -- we certainly wouldn't want to state the regulations and just go with that.  That would be stupid!  

Instead, I think we should continue bashing what might be legal fishing methods (and according to Rob, if anything, potentially beneficial) based upon our feelings.  

Because with fly fishing! -- following the law just isn't good enough.  It's an elite brotherhood!  This book is writing itself!  

On Friday, September 12, 2014 10:03:51 AM UTC-4, Uncle Keith wrote:

Actually, any presentation - other than a presentation that incorporates a float - would appear to be an attempt at lining/flossing/lifting/snagging... so, one can either opt for fishing with an indicator, or skip the fly gear and fish with a float fishing set up to avoid the appearance of attempting to snag fish.

Keep in mind that the lifting/flossing/lining/snagging contingent use fly rods & reels for their "style of fishing". They fish during low-flow conditions, in fast water, where the fish tend to aggregate. (I chalk up this Poor Behavior to an Impulse Control Personality Deficiency.)

--
http://www.tpfr.org
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tidal-potomac-fly-rodders+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

To post to this group, send email to tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tidal-potomac-fly-rodders/a8d51124-6d44-4b54-89a9-1ea34b24ad0f%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Brendan]

never even heard about this bead fishing technique...  don't really understand why it's that controversial. not terribly impressed by the gamesmanship of it, but same with fishing stocked streams using pink flashy flies - which i occasionally do. I also cast a spin rod w/ my dad, girlfriend or friends kids, which isn't quite the same challenge as twerkin a clouser but there's still something amazing about seeing a bass smash a rapala.... in terms of fishing egg patterns, fished them occasionally going after coastal cutts/steelhead out west and never noticed anymore of a problem w/ unhooking than nymph fishing.  only holy grail i have is protecting native/wild fish from herds/hotspotting and poaching.... i don't see the point in judging purity of legal approaches.  

[Yambag Nelson]

Its controversial partly because you would typically "pin" the bead a couple inches above the hook. So if the fish eats the bead, there is a good chance that the fish will be hooked somewhere outside of the mouth.

Other than that, many people (apparently not all) struggle to see a bead as a fly.  When combined with the fact that it is usually used in conjunction with a chuck and duck casting technique, you can see why many flyfisherman don't consider bead fishing actually flyfishing.  Some people don't care, others do.  My uncle used to fish salted minnows on an orvis split bamboo fly rod that is worth a couple grand today. Similar thing.

[TurbineBlade]

I read a "Vegan fishing" article recently where this guy was saying that he doesn't understand why people need to hook and play a fish to get enjoyment out of the sport of fishing.  He then went on to say "why not just feed the fish you see at the stream?"  You could then say "Man, I just fed a 3-pound rainbow" vs. "I caught a 3-pound rainbow."  I guess he was using bread or something.  

Some fly fishermen aren't too far from this sentiment on the spectrum between Vegan and T-Nugent.  I think it's worth considering how very arbitrary the thought process can get when discussing stuff like this.  

For the record -- when someone catches more fish than I do, that's when I start inspecting his/her tackle and technique to determine whether he/she is "really fishing" or not.  If Beth catches more brook trout in the SNP than I do, it's because she cheats...or because I was "busy chasing a lizard" or something stupid like that.  

Gene

[Jeff Ford]

I've used them on occasion with mixed results. For salmon and steel I found them similar to eggs and estaz. However, 1 time I took a guided trip in idaho and landed over 50 trout in 8'hours mostly using beads. That is about 3 times my previous best day ever! All but 2 fish were hooked right in the front of the mouth/jaw but it was usually on the outside as stated previously. I've accidentally foul hooked a fish by nymphing before so I didn't notice an increase in true foul hooking of fish. I personally don't see a difference in hooking the outside jaw or inside jaw with a sharp hook and dragging a fish away from its home. But to each their own. Many of these fish are purposely stocked for the purpose of catching, generating tourism income, gear purchases, etc. I realize this truth even though I have never kept a fish in my life.