Do you believe in popper action during the winter?

[TAEHWAN KIM]

I fished the out going tide at 4MR today with small popper.

I caught a bluegill on the fourteenth consecutive cast. I must have gotten more than fifty bluegill on the popper and with a bonus, the hefty crappie and bass. As I was leaving the area, a TPFR member, Josh hooked up with a nice sucker on a #6 or 8 clouser.  Way to go Josh!!!!

The 3~4 weight rod with small popper will produce action all day !!!!!!

 

Tight Lines,

 

Todd

 

 

[TurbineBlade]

Nice pumpkinseed -- they're probably my favorite sunfish around here ;).  

Gene

[Josh Cohn]

Nice pic of my Sucker can't believe he took a clouser, you sure were killin it!

[BruceC2C]

On recent podcast, FF'er frm either Montana or Colorado said every New Year's Day he catches at least one trout on Dry Hopper. 

We are the beneficiaries of piscatorial conditioning and reaction strikes. 

Don't overthink. Have some fun. Go for it

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:19:48 PM UTC-5, TAEHWAN KIM wrote:

[alexjmc...@gmail.com]

Wow.  Thanks for sharing.   Do you mind sharing where you were fishing?  What was the temp outside?   I don't know area well and so far have only fished turkey run, but without much success.   thanks!   

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:19:48 PM UTC-5, TAEHWAN KIM wrote:

[Dave Marcus]

Great pictures. I'm always impressed by your images. Can you share a bit more about how you get such nice quality pics when fishing alone? Do you use an app on a cell phone to touch up the edges of the bass pictures? Are you using a camera, if so, what settings? In particular the bass picture and the third pumpkin seed image are very nicely composed. Great winter shots.

David

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:19:48 PM UTC-5, TAEHWAN KIM wrote:

[TAEHWAN KIM]

Thanks Dave.

 

I always look for the good spots for the photo session, before I catch fish.

When I catch fish, I usually get them to pose right away and take many shots, and then later on,

I sort them out from my PC.

The camera I'm using is a Canon A640, this great little camera, I payed $350.00 for when it came out. Now you could get one from e-bay for under $150.00. This camera takes four AA batteries, so you don't have to worry about the recharging batteries going bad.

I also use the old CS2 photoshop for my photos, so I can only do minimum stuff with it like, cropping the image, making it dark or lighter, contrasting the image, and coloring. 

 I hope this helps you a bit.

 

Todd,

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[Nate Gabig]

Todd, thanks for posting and sharing some fishing therapy for those of us that are stuck indoors with whatever flu-bug this is now going around the DMV.

I wonder just how deep the hibernaculum is that the 4MR outflow resident water snakes must use to survive these brutal winter temps...

Nate

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:19:48 PM UTC-5, TAEHWAN KIM wrote:

[TAEHWAN KIM]

Nate,

Don't know if he is still out there.

I saw this guy with Rob Snowhite on 01/17/2010 at Four Mile Run.

watch out!!!!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: "Nate Gabig"<nate...@gmail.com>
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>;
Cc: "TAEHWAN KIM"<tod...@naver.com>; <tod...@naver.com>;
Sent: 2014-01-04 (토) 09:01:20
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Do you believe in popper action during the winter?
 

Todd, thanks for posting and sharing some fishing therapy for those of us that are stuck indoors with whatever flu-bug this is now going around the DMV.

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[TurbineBlade]

Nice! Don't worry about aquatic snakes in our region. They're harmless and beneficial to have around. That's a pretty one actually!
Gene

[Matthew Longley]

Hey Gene, can we get a quick bio lesson on that snake?

[TurbineBlade]

Most (all I think?) of the Nerodia (formerly Natrix) are harmless, aquatic colubrid (most colubrids are non-venomous, but some are *slightly to moderately venomous) snakes.  That Karl Schmidt guy died from a boomslang -- a venomous colubrid snake, but that's an exception to the rule.  I know the Missouri species pretty well, and out here there are some species/subspecies variations, etc. but for general purposes they fill the same role in the ecosystem.  Most of the ones I've worked with are primarily fish eaters, but also amphibians and some other odd items reported on occasion.  I've heard they'll eat mice/rats, but given that they don't tend to 'constrict' like many other colubrids (the ones in the lab and the ones I've seen eating fish in the field just sort of latch on and swallow), I'm not sure eating rodents is a reliable option (rodents can cause serious and/or fatal injury to snakes during feeding, particularly if they aren't subdued with constriction or venom).  Venom is actually really useful in "cleaning up" a lot of the microbes (gut flora) present in mammal (primarily rodent) prey that could otherwise harm the snake.  That's one of the lesser-known purposes of venom that may also help explain the "why is X snake so venomous when it only needs a little amount of venom to kill a prey item?" question (quick kill and quick relocation is another). Constriction kills via cardiac failure -- not suffocation BTW.  Good trivia question that one.  A human could potentially hold his/her breath for quite a long time, but he'll die in a fraction of that time if constricted by a large python, etc.  

Anyway -- they (Nerodia) also provide food for a lot of larger mammal predators and birds, including raptors and at least one owl (barred owls eat the crud out of snakes -- I've seen it a few times and other people commonly report it).  

If you grab one they pretty much immediately bite you (I've never once not been bitten by one that wasn't dead when I grabbed it), but all you'll likely suffer is several little teeth punctures in a "V" pattern on your hand or arm.  No biggie.  If it's cold enough they'll try to bite but probably miss and be pretty slow about it.  They like to musk too, and their musk is pretty foul-smelling. Better than a garter snake IMO, but way worse than Cottonmouth musk.  Actually, Cottonmouth musk isn't really bad at all -- it's got a kind of craft-store vibe to it.  Garter snakes (and the other Thamnophis species) reek!  I hate that stuff. 

One of the grad students at Missouri State found that "overhead sweeping movements" of the arms elicited the strongest defensive behavior responses in one of the Nerodia species (Northern Watersnake I think it was...).  They don't like that -- don't do it.  Probably because avian predators act similarly.  Oddly though, all our lab Nerodia would eat readily after grasping them, sweeping overhead, etc. even though you'd think they would be totally stressed out and would refuse food.  No, they eat just fine.  So what do I know?  Cottonmouths not so much.  You tinker with those guys and you might as well forget getting them to eat for another 7-14 days.  

I hope I never grow out of catching snakes.  

Oh! -- my only point was that no water snakes around here are harmful to humans and all are important to some other animal and the system as a whole.  They're good to see and are fairly interesting, grouchy creatures who are probably fishing better than you are.  Especially if you're using a fly rod.  

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

One more thing about Karl Schmidt:  He apparently was a great scientist until the very end!  He actually was bitten but still recorded on paper his symptoms all up until he wrote "I think I'm going to die" at some point.  With type II diabetes and heart problems, I'm not sure he didn't pick the better way honestly ;).  

Gene

[namfos]

That's a fabulous pic of the snake. I may "borrow" that for wallpaper on my home iMac. I know it will keep my wife off the computer. ;-)  She won't even go in the reptile house at the zoo.

[Leon]

Whoa, for a second I thought that was a copperhead!

I found this from the Virginia Herpetology Society, though: "however the pattern on the northern watersnake is always narrow on the sides and wide near the backbone. This is completely opposite of the pattern found on the copperhead (wide on the sides and narrow near the back bone). "

http://www.virginiaherpetologicalsociety.com/reptiles/snakes/northern-copperhead/northern_copperhead.htm

On Saturday, December 14, 2013 4:19:48 PM UTC-5, TAEHWAN KIM wrote:

[TurbineBlade]

Here are some good keys - and this is from MDNR:

non-venomous snake

1. Round pupils

2. No sensing pit

3. Head slightly wider than neck

4. Divided anal plate

5. Double row of scales on the underside of the tail

venomous snake

1. Elliptical pupils

2. Sensing pit between eye and nostril

3. Head much wider than neck

4. Single anal plate

5. Single scales on the underside of the tail

Pattern, head shape, body size, etc. are very unreliable for most people (myself included -- sometimes it's hard to see) in attempting to identify venomous snakes.  

The Copperhead is one of my favorites -- it's hard to find a more beautiful snake around here -- they're also very, very easy to work with in the lab like most other pit vipers (pit vipers are very energy-conservative animals, think Homer Simpson).  In the field it really is true that if left alone, they are unlikely to even move, let alone wasting energy trying to bite something that isn't prey.  Most bites are from people attempting to handle them (usually while drunk according to the statistics), and from people accidentally stepping on them while doing something near a heavily wooded area.  A buddy of mine working at the Springfield Conservation Nature Center in Springfield, MO was bitten while assisting someone in the field, but it was his own fault by his admission.  Other  than swelling and pain, not much else typically happens.  

Gene

[TurbineBlade]

Also -- if the snake is in water it is VERY unlikely to be a Copperhead (they like very heavily wooded areas and eat almost nothing but rodents as adults, and therefore don't associate much with water).   

[Rob Snowhite]

I don't think I've seen a live copperhead in over 20 years. We used to see them all the time on the beaver dams in Reston growing up. One thing about snakes that angers me is how I hear almost on a weekly basis about someone spotting a cottonmouth/water moccasin up here. I've given up informing these adamant people that their geographic distribution does not expand up here/they don't live up here but apparently to them I'm always wrong. 

If you ever want to get a good look at snakes go out with Miles. He once pulled a friggin huge water snake into the drift boat, almost gave Trent a heart attack. Miles has a keen sense of where to find them. Its impressive.

 

Rob Snowhite

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From: TurbineBlade <doubl...@gmail.com>
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Cc: tod...@naver.com
Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 12:51 PM

Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Do you believe in popper action during the winter?

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[TurbineBlade]

Agreed Rob -- I hear it all the time too....everywhere I've been.  Something that might contribute to it is the fact that a lot of people use the term "moccasin" to describe any water snake, not just Cottonmouths.  

Also, it's common for people to be nervous around snakes which probably tends to "trump up" encounter stories.  Having a Northern water snake pop-up on you in the stream doesn't sound as exciting ;).  What's odd, is the Cottonmouth population I worked with in Crane Co. Missouri was localized very near water (along Crane Creek) but the animals seldom entered the water for any purpose, and analyzing dozens and dozens of gut contents revealed almost nothing but rodents as prey (Cottonouths are known for eating a VERY large diversity of food items, and the name Agkistrodon piscivorus makes it clear that fish are a big item on the list).....so just like fly fishing "rules" for you to follow, not everything adheres to generalizations and everything seems to be very site-specific.  

"It depends" ;) 

Gene

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[John Smith]

Interesting topic. I have been scrambling around fishing and hiking in NOVA for 50 years (minus 3 years in Wyoming) and have encountered 1 poisonous snake. A huge copperhead laying across the C&O towpath at Widewater. It was a very cool sight. However, not too far away my brother and I encountered a cottonmouth while fishing on Back Bay quite a few years ago- that was an aggressive snake. We were lucky to be in a high sided wooden boat with oars! I am not an alarmist by any means but one thing you have to think about these days is introductions of species into areas outside their range especially since there are warmwater discharges available to provide refuges. We have people living around here with houses full of venomous snakes. Exotics get introduced all the time. I saw a 3 foot iguana running across Hunter Mill Road a few years back. So, its always a good idea to inform oneself. But I agree with you guys, I have spent a lot of time pleading with my neighbors not to cut the heads off the rat snakes, hognose snakes, garter snakes, etc. that still manage to live around here.

[Davis Walker]

Thanks guys you now have me freaked out to fish 4mr!

I just joined the google group and was looking forward to checking out 4mr too!

[TurbineBlade]

No undue fear of snakes is permitted on the forum ;).  

Keep in mind that snakes are not intelligent animals and are no capable of planning an attack on a person wearing a rubber suit and fly vest.  

Also, I will personally volunteer to be bitten by any non-venomous snake native to the region to demonstrate how irrational this fear really is.  Snakes have very little musculature in their head due to the need for a lot of movement involved in subduing and swallowing prey (i.e. they don't really "bite" like a mammal or something -- they lack the muscles to do so).  They have well-developed muscles for launching their head in a direction, but they essentially just "gum" you with an open mouth.  Their teeth are quite sharp and will sometimes break the skin, but I could attack you with a stapler and cause more damage than most species around here.  

So far I've been bitten by:

Eastern Gartersnake

Western Ribbon

Eastern Coachwhip

Black Rat Snake

Mississippi Green Watersnake (Beth took a picture of that one)

Northern Watersnake

Yellow-bellied racer ("blue" racer to the locals)

Speckled Kingsnake

Eastern Mudsnake

Bullsnake (biggest one of them all)

Cornsnakes, Yellow ratsnakes, Ball pythons, Red-tailed boas (small ones) and numerous other exotics when I worked at a pet store as a teenager.  I had to care for the herp lab at MSU for 2 years and the resident non-venomous snakes were mostly mellow, but a few loved to bite.  Beth hated going in there.   

Those are the ones I can remember -- none were a problem, and I'd sooner get hit by each one again than another of those darn sugar-gliders we had at that pet shop.  Or that Lory, parrot, thing (whatever it was).  That hurt much worse.

For 4MR, be more mindful of sewage spills and rusty chunks of scrap metal you might step on.  

Gene

[Bruce Mathews]

Gene,

Question for a snake guy - I have heard that a snake can strike only about as far as half the length of their body - i.e. 5 foot snake means you would need to be within 2-1/2 feet to get hit.  What's the real truth?

Bruce Mathews
703.772.7167

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[Rob Snowhite]

Snakes don't come with a yard stick on their backs so I vote for Gene to answer that one. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[TurbineBlade]

HI Bruce -- that sound about right.  To be honest, I'm not sure the exact rule for a given snake (or family).  

I recall that pit vipers are among the very fastest strikers in terms of speed, whereas cobras and other elapids are significantly slower.  This seems almost counterintuitive given how lazy the pit vipers tend to be, but I imagine it's related to the need to "be darned sure" to get a good strike for a sit-and-wait foraging style common to pit vipers (vs. most elapids, which often chase down prey).  

Gene

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