Beer Tie

[MikeV]

Enjoyed meeting Vo (spelling?), Brian, John, Ron, and Mark this evening at the Beer Tie.  Produced 4 snowhite damsels and had a Yuengling to finish off the evening.

Will attend others.

What wt rod and line is recommended for Shad?  I understand a sinking tip or full sinking line is best to use.

Later, Mike

[Evan D]

I have used an 8wt for the last few years. This year I have a new 6wt with a fighting butt that I will throw into the mix. An 8wt allows you to really haul casts out into the center of the river if fishing from the bank. It also prepares you if you hook into a bigger striper or catfish. Otherwise, for shad only, a 6,7, or 8 should do.

[Ernie]

Sinking line highly recommended.....

[Greggory DiSalvo]

I use a 6 and 7 weight.  6 is great for shad from a boat as casting a heavy grain line can be...difficult and ugly.  The 7 weight throws the line better and is a quicker fight, but I tend to throw deceivers on this for striper.  

[alexjmc...@gmail.com]

Rob Snowhite, who teaches the beginner's table at the beer ties, did a podcast last night w/ his recommendations on what to use for Shad.  I don't think it's posted yet.  Lots of good info in his podcast archive: 

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/fly-fishing-consultant-podcast/id354129193

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 11:40:10 PM UTC-4, MikeV wrote:

[MikeV]

Was not able to get the podcast, must not be uploaded yet.  i have one question, Does anyone use the Rio Versileader set up to convert a floating line into a sink tip line for Shad? If so, your pros and cons for it?

[Bob Smith]

Limits you to hickories on or near the surface. You'll get the occasional American when tides, light and fish movement are right. But big hickories and Americans are generally deeper than you'll reach.

[Evan D]

I've used a versileader or similar sink tip for the last 3 years. I've caught tons of hickory shad from shore, but along the lines of what Bob said, I've never caught an American shad on a versileader. This year I've got a reel set up with a versileader and another with full sink. Looking forward to switching between both.

[Rob Snowhite]

Mike, 

New podcast is up. I'll be ready for some weekday adventures once things dry up a bit. 

Off to the USMC Museum. Hope to see some of you there. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2017, at 11:34 PM, 'MikeV' via Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Was not able to get the podcast, must not be uploaded yet.  i have one question, Does anyone use the Rio Versileader set up to convert a floating line into a sink tip line for Shad? If so, your pros and cons for it?

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[MikeV]

Thanks for the input. I think I'll use my 7wt TFO Lefty Kreh medium fast rod that I bought for smallmouth bass. What would be a good inexpensive full sinking line g or it. I will add Robs recommended 20#, 10#, 8# leader to it.

I'm ready when you are Rob. Listened to your pod cast. I have most of what you recommended.

MikeV

[TurbineBlade]

For shad?  Don't go with a 20-10-8 or any other tapered leader for a shad, full-sink set up.  The benefit of a tapered leader is completely trumped by the manner in which a full sinking line is laid out (at least to me, anyway).  You also don't want to use a long leader.  Just buy a depth charge type line and loop 12 inches of straight 8 pound mono to the end and you're set. 

For a floating line, the "Rob" style leader works very well.  

Gene 

[Bob Smith]

4' 10 or 8 lb test, looped at both ends. 2' 8 or 6 lb test for an easily changed tippet.

[Bob Smith]

You can shorten those lengths depending on water conditions.

[TurbineBlade]

If 4' of leader is looped at both ends, how do you get the fly on?  ;)

No, Bob's method ^^ works great too and most people recommend a slightly longer leader than I do for sinking lines.  

Gene

[Scott Stankus]

I'm with Gene. I use about 3' of level leader with my Depth Charge line. 12-pound, if I recall correctly. 

--Scott

Sent from my iPhone

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[Bob Smith]

Tippet to the 4' section, fly to the tippet. The section lengths can vary. 4,/2' a good average. Again it depends on flows, water levels, clarity. I target Americans specifically. For hickories a 4' length of 6 lb test is fine. But with the two section leader with a loop on the butt you can change out the tippet when it gets to short.

[MikeV]

Well...well.... lol... I forgot...the one thing you don't want to do is recommend a specific leader/tippet set up... unless one wants some controversy... lol...

yes, there is value in every recommendation above...

It's fascinating how many combinations are possible in fly fishing..

Yes, Rob does indicate there is no need for a tapered leader when using a full sinking line in his podcast, as I understand him.  I think the tapered leader was for a sinking tip line... I think, which Rob recommends for inexperienced anglers due to the difficulty of pulling up a full sinking line before roll casting... or any casting..  I can appreciate that...as I am a perpetual novice.. Lots of gear.. little experience..

I have a 8/9 wt rigged for steel head that I tried to bag in eastern NY a couple years ago..to no avail... I've thought about using it... a big gun for those monsters lurking in the depths.. has a shooting/sinking head on it too... goes like a rocket.... not sure about that... I may bring it along to back up my 7wt..

I have hip wadders Rob, with rubber soles and studs as well.. no wellingtons,but similar.

I am the best equipped rookie in Virginia I think... lol..

Later folks,

Mike Vance

[Richard Farino]

The point about sinking heads/lines and short leaders is all about the sinking portion bringing the fly quickly down to the strike zone, instead of a long leader slowly making it’s way to the depths.  The shooting heads that work well have intermediate running lines so the head gets down quickly as well, and don’t pull the heads up the surface during the swing.

Throw a 26-33’ 300gr shooting head with an intermediate running line on your 8wt if you want to catch big American’s as well as use it for striped bass in the Bay and on the Potomac.

Just so you know, we’re throwing 10wt’s with 400-500gr heads to get down for the big stripers.

Regards,

Richard

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[Bob Smith]

Richie gives a clear breakdown. I sent my post fast and could have been clearer. My formula is 2 to 1. Using fluorocarbon to cut through the water when fishing deep I'll go 2' butt 1' tippet.

When conditions call for going shallower or around the rock gardens I'll switch to Maxima and up to 4' butt 1' tippet for a slower drop.

Using a looped tippet wastes less material (snags, breakoffs ,fly changes) than just using a straight section of leader.

[MikeV]

Interesting and informative leader/tippet design comments... thanks much.