Is there any point to killing snakehead caught rod-n-reel anymore?

[TurbineBlade]

Hi -- I managed to catch another (small) NSH yesterday which I dispatched immediately upon landing.  After doing so, I couldn't help but think that this is really just a knee-jerk reaction vs. an actual management tool.  I've seen more NSH this year than I ever have before and I doubt they're going anywhere.  

So, is everyone just doing this because it seemed like a good idea when the problem was first recognized, or is there any good reason to continue going out of our way to kill these things vs. just turning them loose?  

Gene

[Jeffrey Silvan]

I don't know much about the NSH from an environmental impact perspective, but when you consider many of the fish we target and populate our waters now are technically invasive species, it makes me wonder if we really NEED to worry about it. Granted, there's typically an evolutionary* reason certain fish/species aren't found in certain areas, but I'm not sure what makes NSH much different than smallmouth and largemouth bass that were introduced to a large portion of our country.

*except in the state of Kansas

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[Bob R]

I don't think the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries have any hope of eradicating NSH, their goal now is just population control.  I read somewhere in the past couple of weeks that they were encouraged by recent electro shock surveys that the population have leveled out.  If that is a natural leveling on what the waterways will support or from the heavy pressure of culling due to catch and kill requirement, it's hard to tell.  I know the bow fishermen are putting a hurting on them.  Personally I would rather just release them, but will continue with removal as long as the state asks me to.

Bob

[Richard Farino]

As per John Odenkirk, last year Little Hunting Creek, the river where they do most of their electroshock studies and data collection, had an estimated 1200 fish.  This year it’s looking like there are about 600 in the creek.  They’re thinking the harvesting regulations and tournaments has been making an impact.

They cannot make informed decisions until they have at least 10-12 years of data to analyze.  I think next year is the last year before they can make suggestions to the state.

Right now NSH are labeled as invasive because most everything isn’t known about them, like where they winter, how many times a year they spawn, whether or not they’re having a positive, neutral, or negative impact on the watersheds they now inhabit.

It’s looking like they might be labeled as an exotic or non-indigenous species at some point based on what people have been saying and what we’re hearing.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

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[TurbineBlade]

Interesting input -- and an interesting observation on Little Hunting Creek -- I wonder what we'll be saying in another 10 years or so.  NSH don't (personally) bother me aside from the hassle of having to kill them upon capture, but I certainly can't resist casting to them and watching how they respond.  On that fact, I'm getting pretty convinced that if you get one to "follow" (which for me is usually a super-slow creep up to nose the fly) you should just let the fly sit and resist the urge to move it.  Sometimes (often, actually) they'll move away from it, but it seems like twitching it when they nose it is even worse.  I don't know if anyone else has found this or not, and I might be totally wrong.  

Of course, I'd trade 10 shots at NSH for 1 shot at a carp.  

I just thought it might be interesting to discuss and think about -- 

Gene

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[Ernie]

No need to kill them unless you want to eat them. Here are the rules:

It is against Maryland, Virginia, and federal laws to possess, import, or transport live Northern Snakehead.

If you catch a snakehead and want to keep it, you must immediately kill the fish by removing its head, gutting it or removing its gill arches. The capture and possession of dead snakeheads is not subject to any season, creel limit or size limit.

Please note the work "IF". You can release them alive. From experience, they are an incredible target. And they are tasty.

Ernie

[Richard Farino]

After discussions with DC Park Police, VA & MD fish & game enforcement officers, the key word in the regulations is “possession”.  It is a loosely defined word, but all 3 agencies consider possession to fall under the intent once a NSH is caught.  Simply holding a fish up for a photo is not possession.  Placing the fish on any part of what you are fishing from DOES equate to possession though…  so that means if you release it in the water you’re fine, but if you put it on the deck of your boat or kayak or haul it up on the bank, it’s considered in your possession and no NSH may be in your possession alive.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: Ernie <ernie...@verizon.net>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, July 28, 2014 at 9:05 PM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Is there any point to killing snakehead caught rod-n-reel anymore?

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[D. Walker]

interesting time for this topic for me. After fishing in the Snakehead Tournament with the Urban Angler team (thanks be to Richard!!) I am now 'addicted' to trying to catch one on the fly. This weekend I will be hitting up some of the local NSH supposed hotspots sat/sun and plan on throwing dahlbergs/ deerhair poppers/ frog patterns.

does anyone have any other pattern suggestions that have been successful for catching a NSH?

My father is coming into town and after me telling him all about the snakehead he's done a lot of reading on them and he's hooked on the idea of catching one as well. (pun intended)

Davis

On Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:36:16 AM UTC-4, Richard Farino wrote:

After discussions with DC Park Police, VA & MD fish & game enforcement officers, the key word in the regulations is “possession”.  It is a loosely defined word, but all 3 agencies consider possession to fall under the intent once a NSH is caught.  Simply holding a fish up for a photo is not possession.  Placing the fish on any part of what you are fishing from DOES equate to possession though…  so that means if you release it in the water you’re fine, but if you put it on the deck of your boat or kayak or haul it up on the bank, it’s considered in your possession and no NSH may be in your possession alive.

R

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com    

From: Ernie <ernie...@verizon.net>
Reply-To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, July 28, 2014 at 9:05 PM
To: <tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Is there any point to killing snakehead caught rod-n-reel anymore?

No need to kill them unless you want to eat them. Here are the rules:

It is against Maryland, Virginia, and federal laws to possess, import, or transport live Northern Snakehead.

If you catch a snakehead and want to keep it, you must immediately kill the fish by removing its head, gutting it or removing its gill arches. The capture and possession of dead snakeheads is not subject to any season, creel limit or size limit.

Please note the work "IF". You can release them alive. From experience, they are an incredible target. And they are tasty.

Ernie

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[TurbineBlade]

Everyone has an opinion on it, but I think fly pattern makes almost, but not entirely, no difference whatsoever.  Any small-medium streamer works best for me -- just keep a few of various weights so you can get down quickly or not if you need to.    

To me, the bigger challenge is keeping the fish from knowing you're there (sneak up in a kayak, or do like I do at Mossy Creek and wear a cowsuit) and then finding one that is actually feeding and not just loafing around like an idiot.  I'd bet my life that those 2 things are 98% of it.  Once they see you, you're pretty much out of luck.  

Gene

[Rob Snowhite]

Make sure you throw weedless. Most of the spots are choked out with milfoil/hydrilla right now. And on the possession bit, DNR stated at the above mentioned tourney that the fine for possessing a live snakehead is $250,000.00

 

Rob Snowhite

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From: D. Walker <williamda...@gmail.com>
To: tidal-potoma...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: {Tidal Potomac Fly Rodders} Re: Is there any point to killing snakehead caught rod-n-reel anymore?

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[D. Walker]

Yea that is a pretty steep fine!

but that lets the public know their serious and hopefully will prevent the spread of the NSH to other waters

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[TurbineBlade]

I know this is true and that we are just discussing the facts, but $250,000?  What was calculated that led to this amount?

The maximum penalty for driving drunk in VA is $300 minus court-ordered restitution -- http://www.dmv.org/va-virginia/automotive-law/dui.php

(Disclaimer:  I am not interested in possessing a live NSH for any reason whatsoever)

Gene

On Monday, July 28, 2014 1:33:06 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote:

[Rob Snowhite]

Lacy Act trumps state regs http://www.fws.gov/international/laws-treaties-agreements/us-conservation-laws/lacey-act.html

Sent from my iPhone

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[Lucas Rudd]

so where do you get those things, i havent caught one since 2011

On Monday, July 28, 2014 1:33:06 PM UTC-4, TurbineBlade wrote: