Fwd: How are mobile carriers/Google/Apple helping track Covid19? Hey South Korea!

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Steven Clift

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Mar 13, 2020, 10:44:09 AM3/13/20
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---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Steven Clift <cl...@e-democracy.org>
Date: Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 9:38 AM
Subject: How are mobile carriers/Google/Apple helping track Covid19? Hey South Korea!
To: poplus <pop...@googlegroups.com>


I've read that South Korea has used tech to track down possible contacts between those testing positive and those who may have been exposed.

I haven't heard if this being used in Italy, the UK, US, etc. Is it?

Is there a detailed article about this anywhere? (Any language.)

Does anyone here know more about this?

One article:

"Thousands of miles away in South Korea, authorities have a different response to a similar-sized outbreak. They are testing hundreds of thousands of people for infections and tracking potential carriers like detectives, using cell phone and satellite technology."



My related post on Facebook:


Thanks,
Steven Clift

Doreen...@gov.scot

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Mar 13, 2020, 10:50:06 AM3/13/20
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I see the value in this instance; but would worry about the implications on what is increasingly a surveillance society

D

Doreen Grove | Head of Open Government
Scottish Government | 3-F North Victoria Quay | EH6 6QQ
m| 07767343230 T|01312443276 e| doreen...@gov.scot

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Steven Clift

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Mar 13, 2020, 11:17:20 AM3/13/20
to Doreen...@gov.scot, mySociety public, general purpose discussion list, democra...@googlegroups.com, TICTeC
That's a legit concern. I am trying to find out what SK is doing and who is helping them.

I saw plenty of scary videos for people being forced into quarantine vans from China.

But if Facebook and Google already know what devices were in close proximity, I could imagine a scenario where a newly tested positive person could put in the date they think they were exposed or first showed symptoms and at least be given a list of "friends" they were likely with to then send a note with an option for the recipient to also install the app and do the same with the right language ... I have not shown symptoms but I was exposed just before I saw you ...

Here is the deal - this kind of smarter self-isolation promoting tech could save hundreds of thousands of lives globally. Ideas like this could extend deep into countries without strong public health infrastructures.

Steve

Steven Clift

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Mar 13, 2020, 11:30:38 AM3/13/20
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Róbert Bjarnason

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Mar 13, 2020, 11:47:43 AM3/13/20
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Hi Steven,

I agree with Doreen that the surveillance aspect is worrying especially to implement this in a state of an emergency and as contact tracing is becoming less effective in many countries. Iceland has now done 1.188 tests, with 128 infections and 951 in quarantine (https://www.covid.is/data) - per capita US numbers would be 1.8m tests, 128k people infected and 951k in quarantine. The government is now close to becoming overwhelmed with contact tracing and is moving to the next stage of an over 100 people assembly ban and school closures.

Regarding using commercial tech to track contacts, it is probably best to start planning now for the next pandemic, make the process it into laws and regulations and make sure to mitigate the surveillance issues in the safest possible way.

Best,
Robert


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Michael Meyer

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Mar 13, 2020, 1:30:03 PM3/13/20
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As we are beyond isolation and more into containment and flattening the curve, I guess contract-tracing becomes less relevant. Still I wonder if not more could be done even in democracies with good data protecton if people voluntarily share their data for specific purposes of tracking.

Michael (Meyer-Resende)

Gil Pradeau

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Mar 13, 2020, 1:41:22 PM3/13/20
to Michael Meyer, Róbert Bjarnason, Steven Clift, democra...@googlegroups.com, TICTeC, newswire
I am not sure I want my neighbours, colleagues and family know about the last love hotel I went, neither with who. It is curious that none of shameful reactions that happened in Corea (stigmatisation) were mentioned in the previous articles. Breach of privacy has a cost and I would prefer to see rich countries spending more money on public healthcare in order to mitigate future overwhelming crisis.

Gilles Pradeau

Doctoral Researcher
University of Westminster
32-38 Wells Street, London, W1T 3UW, United Kingdom

Website Academia.edu Twitter



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Christiana Mauro

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Mar 13, 2020, 5:49:36 PM3/13/20
to Gil Pradeau, Michael Meyer, "Róbert Bjarnason", Steven Clift, democra...@googlegroups.com, TICTeC, newswire
Yes, attention to social spending priorities would be preferable to this scheme. Emergency powers invite much more serious societal problems than stigmatization.
 
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 at 6:41 PM
From: "Gil Pradeau" <g.pr...@my.westminster.ac.uk>
To: "Michael Meyer" <mock...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Róbert Bjarnason" <rob...@citizens.is>, "Steven Clift" <cl...@e-democracy.org>, democra...@googlegroups.com, TICTeC <tictecby...@googlegroups.com>, newswire <news...@groups.dowire.org>
Subject: Re: How are mobile carriers/Google/Apple helping track Covid19? Hey South Korea!

Steven Clift

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Mar 13, 2020, 6:02:40 PM3/13/20
to Christiana Mauro, Gil Pradeau, Michael Meyer, Róbert Bjarnason, democra...@googlegroups.com, TICTeC, newswire
I definitely appreciate the concerns about state abuse that is why I mentioned it up front and posted it here.

But I do wonder what we are morally obligated to do that is legal with the technology tools before us to help people self-isolate or the state enforce necessary quarantines. With a mother in her upper 70s and a grandmother at 95 in assisted living, this feels very real to me - they and potentially millions others around the world could die unnecessarily if the spread is not more effectively slowed.  

In my home state, I have various political connections and I would love to be able to document and say, this is what South Korea did (with some detail beyond the phrase in the article that says, " racking potential carriers like detectives, using cell phone and satellite technology.") I heard Trump mention today that Google was helping with a website and had 1000+ engineers on it (that seems like a lot) to help people figure out if they should be tested and where to test. Taking that the next step and saying, "you tested positive ... do you want help identifying and letting those we think (and you verify) you've been very near for X days know" seems like a logical extension. 

Steve
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