Re: WHO Doesn't Have Bees, and wants them? What cities are you in? What prevents you from chasing swarms?

[Robert L Mathews]

This discussion was overwhelming the swarm list, which is not intended to be used for discussion. Please continue any further discussion here in the Bee Talk group (I've put a block on more such messages to the swarm list so they won't bother anyone).

Anyway:

On May 4, 2025, at 9:03 PM, Nick Ashwa via swarm-list <swarm...@alamedabees.org> wrote:

The email notifications are usually too late for me as someone already would’ve claimed them before the email even rings on my phone. Not sure how folks respond within minutes of an email being sent(any inputs). 

You're right that this happens, but I do want to point out that it definitely doesn't always happen. Just in the last few days, for example....

This beautiful swarm sat for almost two hours before anyone responded:

https://lists.alamedabees.org/pipermail/swarm-list/msg03607.html

This one waited about an hour with no response:

https://lists.alamedabees.org/pipermail/swarm-list/msg03680.html

Someone quickly said they could get this one, but also said they were willing to let anyone who was beeless claim it; nobody did for over an hour:

https://lists.alamedabees.org/pipermail/swarm-list/msg03678.html

This one sat for two days and needed to be reposted, and even then nobody claimed it for two hours:

https://lists.alamedabees.org/pipermail/swarm-list/msg03706.html

And this one, on a Saturday at 3 in the afternoon in Piedmont, got no takers except someone who volunteered to take a look much later in the day if nobody else was interested:

https://lists.alamedabees.org/pipermail/swarm-list/msg03709.html

I know it's frustrating for anyone to miss a swarm they would have liked, but the simple reason most get claimed so quickly is that there are almost 300 people on the list, so there will be always be a large number of people who see the notifications pretty much instantly, whether they're sent by email or another method. The fact that any swarm sits unclaimed for even a few minutes is only because "the usual suspects" among those 300 people already do wait at least 20 minutes before replying to give other people a chance.

If I can make a psychological observation, people tend to remember the one they wanted and wish they were notified three minutes earlier about that one... but usually not so badly that they're willing to receive 2,000 other immediate, life-interrupting notifications over the course of the year. (If you're willing to receive an urgent notification for every message, there are several services that can do that for you.)

If we're seeing repeated names claiming them after 20 minutes goes by, keep in mind that in most of those cases, nobody else would have claimed them at all. The "I really wanted that swarm but I was a minute too late in replying" phenomenon happens (and is frustrating!), but the majority of them aren't like that. Even with 300 people on the swarm list, it's sometimes hard to find people to collect them.

I'll let Jerry (the swarm list coordinator) comment more on some suggestions, but switching the system to a list of people that the swarm list volunteers need to contact and ask if they are interested, one by one, doesn't seem practical. Handling swarm calls already takes up a great deal of volunteers' time. I doubt that asking them to increase that by reaching out to people individually is an option.

There are actually several "swarm collecting" apps that try to automate a system like that. They send out a text message or similar notification to people who have listed themselves, in some sort of sequence, giving each of them 90 seconds to respond. I've talked to some people who use those, and it doesn't seem any better. The end result is often an hour or more of delays and nobody claiming a swarm at all. People just tune them out, thinking "I'm just one of many people, someone else will handle it."

And the automation of it eliminates a lot of useful discussion and transparency that happens on our email list. Whatever drawbacks it has, at least everyone can see exactly what's going on.

Are there are ways we can improve things? Definitely. For example, many people want to only collect them swarms in their area, so it would be nice if you could sign up to say "I only want ones in Hayward and San Leandro". (People might be more willing to turn on urgent notifications on their phone if they only got notifications that applied to them.)

I have thoughts about some other possible tweaks, but they're all improvements to the current system of "a bunch of interested people get notified at once and then we hope someone claims it", rather than something where we ask people one by one if they'd be interested.

Further discussion is welcome, but I think that in general, the current swarm list system works well, given how many people are involved, and I've thought about it a lot. Improvements would need to take all these into account (just to head off some suggestions that come up every year):

• It can't delay how long it takes swarms to be collected. The primary purpose of the swarm list is to mitigate public nuisances; it's not primarily a "free bees" system, although that's a pleasant side effect.
• It can't increase the workload on the swarm list volunteers, which is already high. They don't want to have to track who wants to get notified, and they need to minimize their time by notifying everyone at once, not people individually.
• The claim process needs to be easily usable by any club member with a phone or computer. We can't switch to Slack, Discord or another messaging app most people don't already have. Some of our members aren't comfortable with systems other than email or SMS.
• It needs to be transparent. In clubs where the swarm awarding process is not transparent, there are often allegations of favoritism. (The email list is great for transparency.)
• It needs to have a beekeeper discussion component. People on the swarm list chat to make connections and give each other guidance.
• People need to be able to report swarms by phone (or at the most, text message or web page). We don't want to make them download an app. We've spent a great deal of effort over the years publicizing the phone number, and a big reason we handle more swarms than any other club in the US (that I know of) is that anyone can call that number, whether they have an app or not. It's not reasonable to expect people who see a swarm to choose and download one of the many apps for this purpose to report it; many would give up.

I have more thoughts, but I'll send this now to encourage the discussion to take place on the Bee Talk group...

-- 

Robert L Mathews

[Gerald Przybylski]

Hey all,
300 swarm list members is just a little generous. 
The last time I checked it there are about 260 swarm list members out of a club membership of ~460.  So not far off.

Thanks for reviewing some of the history, Rob, and pointing out the cases where the responses lagged.
The problem seems to be that some members have too narrow a window when they ARE available and it lines up with everyone else.
Another potential problem is unwillingness to travel far for a swarm, or tackle something out of their comfort zone.  (Unicorn problem)

Anyone interested in ALSO participating in a nation-wide or region-wide swarm-alert-system that's orthogonal to the ACBA
is welcome to do so.  I'm sure their program or AI is glad to take "reports," and distribute alerts to subscribers in the county (and adjoining counties).
I don't know how they handle the incidence of pile-up of multiple beekeepers on a single report. 
I don't know how good their technology is at sorting out the YJ, wasp, bumblebee, extraction reports from the simple swarms.  
That being said, the calls we the  ACBA swarm-list volunteers don't hear about are ones we don't have to handle,
and that's a work-load reduction.
The model ACBA is using now seems to serve the east-bay community, and most of the membersof the email group pretty well,  so we will continue utilize it. 
(It looks like about 2% of the swarm list members are having serious problems with it. The root causes  don't seem have a common/easy solution.)
Thank you Jonathan Zamick for crafting it about 10 years ago.  It's been pretty good at handling the load without needing many tweaks.

Weighing the pros and cons, in some cases a purchase of a Nuc colony can be a viable alternative to competing for a swarm.
Please try to buy local stock if you do.   that's my local-bee bias showing through.

Cheers

jerry

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Alameda County Beekeepers Association" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to the-alameda-county-beekeep...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/326F372E-A1FB-41A7-A221-380B287CB2E2%40tigertech.com.

[Paula Breen]

Dear all,

It pains me that this issue comes up around this time EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. But here we are again, and as an active swarm list participant, I feel compelled to comment.

The prime objective of the swarm list is community service, not to provide club members with free bees. While it is a nice perk of membership, no one is owed or entitled to anything. Everyone understands the challenges some of us face with work and family commitments which conflict with quick responses, but that is something beyond the control of the volunteers. They are doing their best to get situations handled quickly and efficiently so they can go on with the rest of their day, while talking down homeowners in full panic mode about the thousands of stinging insects in their front yards. I am sure most of us are oblivious to the amount of time and energy each call takes. That the volunteers do it at all is a HUGE GIFT, for which they get nothing in return, and the backlash from folks who think the system is unfair is one more layer of aggravation that they have to deal with. It isn't cool people. I humbly suggest some of you step up to volunteer. You get to claim one swarm for yourself! And you will get some perspective on the amount of work your beekeeping colleagues are doing for the East Bay. 

For those who think the volunteers don't wait long enough, I must disagree as I see them put the brakes on to try and give others a chance all the time. For those who say waiting a little longer doesn't matter, tell that to the homeowner who has to shell out hundreds of dollars to get the bees out of their wall. This is about them, not us. For those who say that some of the swarm collectors aren't waiting long enough, I have personally collected several swarms this year that sat unclaimed for 30, 60, 90 minutes, and I have seen other do the same, most notably Robin, Sung, Mimi, and Jeff. Sorry if I am overlooking some of you. You know who you are. And for those who wonder what the volunteers collecting lots of swarms do with them, well frankly, it is none of our business. They are giving their time, money, and expertise to the community. And FWIW, I happen to know that most, and I suspect all of us, give away MANY of these swarms, even if we don't circle back to the swarm list and tell everyone about it so the whole club knows how great we are.

If you haven't been able to make the stars align with swarm notifications and your real life obligations, I sincerely hope you at minimum have out one bait hive. More ups your odds. Buy a package. Buy a nuc. If you don't have the finances, well, this isn't a cheap hobby. Something to consider. Or perhaps you could offer some of your time to other beekeepers in the group in exchange for a nuc or something. There are other options than catching a swarm. Give something back. 

This system is incredibly efficient at carrying out it's goal of meeting the needs of our neighbors and is not in need of a fix, although I REALLY APPRECIATE those who came forward with actual suggestions and not just grousing about being treated unfairly.

Let's all refocus on the purpose of this club, which is support for each other and service to the community. An attitude of gratitude would go a long way here.

In friendship,

Paula

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/5349dfa8-20ca-4453-9d3c-092040e59fc0%40gmail.com.

[Nha Toi]

As a past swarm chaser and now a hotline volunteer, I can only speak for myself.

When I was swarm chasing, looking at my email notifications was one of my priorities.  That's because I know that rescuing a swarm is WAY cheaper than buying a nuc.  I bought 2 nucs, so I know the costs. Claiming a swarm was almost like winning an Ebay bid that a lot of people were bidding for, it was that exciting for me.  As a swarm chaser back then, I thought, how hard could it be to just be a hotline volunteer?  They just post the swarms, and people like me claim it, right?  

As a hotline volunteer, I know now how totally wrong my impressions were of the hotline volunteers.  When picking up a call, I just don't know who's on the other line.  I have to be as courteous and helpful as I can be to the caller because they are the ones who are facing the stress of suddenly having a "bee hive at my front door", "I think bees are in my house somewhere because I see dead bees inside my house", "Can you please help, I'm allergic to bees....." , "I think they are bees because they're yellow." I hear these calls for help every year.  I have to empathize with the caller, but also need to calm them down, and take down all the necessary info.  If the call is too long, because I don't like to rush people. I asked the caller to wait a bit so I could call them back on my own phone.  Our hotline phone # is not a free line.

After the call, I also waited for the caller to send me a picture of the swarm if they had it.  Then on to posting the swarm.  I feel I hit the jackpot if a swarm rescuer responded quickly to my email post on the swarm list.  It means I didn't have to wait a long time for a response.  I burnt my dinner several times by waiting for someone to respond.  

I wanted to quit volunteering several times due to certain factors, and also because I had to spend too much time waiting for a response.  To be honest, my time is also precious to my family.  So to ask me to wait for 15min to half an hour after spending a lot of time with the caller already for someone who, for some reason, can't respond as fast, I just honestly can't see myself doing that.  I am a giving person, but I am not that generous.  I also am NOT willing to spend extra time to notify people on some list because they don't have bees yet.  I'm sorry, it's just not me.

This is just my perspective as a hotline volunteer. --- Gina

[real...@aol.com]

Thank you, it is also my point of view , 

Too often we consider the club as a business with all the politic involved . And there is a lot of! 

     in reality the club purpose is to gather together people with a common interest .

  it has nothing to do with finances either .

I seriousely doubt with the income from the membership anyone can treat themselves with anything else but the merchandise from gooodwill . Everyone at the club from the President to swarm list are volonteer do it at gheir own time for free , unlike Civil servant , beside nothing lead anyone at the Club to higher political position . 

    Is the system perfect No , i am not nor anyone reading this post is ! 

Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS (blame them for autocorrection) 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/6fb6cdb7-8f23-45a5-9e6c-f08bca18a222n%40googlegroups.com

.

[Arif Obaid]

Alameda County Club stands out as one of the most active, largely thanks to its dedicated volunteers and members. It's the tireless effort of these volunteers that maintains its vibrant status. Their efforts are greatly appreciated.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/CAMCjtw%3D4zwiKoNynAHisx_BruUUc16D4Zpgs8TzCjW4VjeO_Og%40mail.gmail.com.

[Philip von Furstenberg]

Thank you to all of the swarm list volunteers!  

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/CA%2BSP87cQV%2BEyOA8Q%2Byc9BaoEyV0q8hNZykNM%2B6nKF99hV6OTyw%40mail.gmail.com.

[sandy fong]

Thank you all ACBA volunteers who have contributed to this amazing community. We appreciate you all.

Bee Happy

Sandy

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/CAOBZ-fzWn8G9ow---UNir9iLvoRx4%2Bt7KA76pYtmM1h4xxB3iQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Mimi]

Thank you Paula for reminding us the purpose of swarm list.  ACBA still have by far the best system for swarms - Santa Clara and Mt Diablo has a list of beekeepers for homeowners to contact individually.  Marin has a form to fill out - not certain how swarm report is distributed or how quickly they respond but I estimate 95% or more of our swarms are checked on same day, many within hours.

Thank you volunteers for managing swarm hotlines.

Mimi 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 5, 2025, at 9:23 PM, Paula Breen <paulae...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/the-alameda-county-beekeepers-association/CAMCjtw%3D4zwiKoNynAHisx_BruUUc16D4Zpgs8TzCjW4VjeO_Og%40mail.gmail.com.