[Next Project] Journals of Alexander Mackenzie
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 2, 2022, 5:08:07 PM1/2/22
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As I wait for the transcription of the preferred translation of the Conquest of New Spain, I thought I'd start on something else.
The first half of Volume 1 is "A General History of the Fur Trade from Canada to the Northwest". It seems like a separate publication, so I'd suggest removing it, if not for the fact that Mackenzie himself says in the preface to Volume 1 that it "will qualify the reader to pursue the succeeding voyages with superior intelligence and satisfaction." This general history includes a dictionary of common words and phrases in Chipewyan and Algonquin. Has something like that been done elsewhere?
Vince
Jan 2, 2022, 5:15:11 PM1/2/22
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Le Morte d’Arthur and three or four others have a glossary, which sounds like it might be similar.
Lukas Bystricky
Jan 3, 2022, 2:22:36 AM1/3/22
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Yes, you're right. I think that'll work nicely.
Alex Cabal
Jan 3, 2022, 5:01:46 PM1/3/22
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This looks like it's going to be extremely complicated. The maps will
have to be converted to SVG, there's a few tables, the glossaries will
be complex, there's a complex nesting/toc structure, lat/lng that will
need to be modernized, and so on. I think this will take you quite some
time and you will need to read slowly with a careful eye to detail and
things to possibly modernize. Look to Worst Journey in the World for a
possibly similar book.
I'm on the fence about keeping the preface. In general we don't want old
histories. However this one is attached to something we do want, first
hand travelogues, and maybe the history is useful in understanding the
rest. I don't really know. If you're going to read it anyway, maybe that
will help in making a decision.
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have to be converted to SVG, there's a few tables, the glossaries will
be complex, there's a complex nesting/toc structure, lat/lng that will
need to be modernized, and so on. I think this will take you quite some
time and you will need to read slowly with a careful eye to detail and
things to possibly modernize. Look to Worst Journey in the World for a
possibly similar book.
I'm on the fence about keeping the preface. In general we don't want old
histories. However this one is attached to something we do want, first
hand travelogues, and maybe the history is useful in understanding the
rest. I don't really know. If you're going to read it anyway, maybe that
will help in making a decision.
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 4, 2022, 6:48:43 AM1/4/22
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Yes, I fully agree. I'll read it and decide whether we can remove it. As for the structure, I assume we want to include both volumes in a single production. In that case would it be acceptable to renumber the chapters in the second volume? It doesn't seem like there's a logical division between Volume 1 and Volume 2. There could however be a logical division between his voyage to the Arctic and his one to the Pacific, so maybe we could separate those two voyages?
Each volume contains a table of contents that includes a short description of the chapter, for example:
I assume all of this can be cut?
Alex Cabal
Jan 4, 2022, 6:22:44 PM1/4/22
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You can remove the ToC and summaries. I don't think we should add a
division where there was none. But if the volume division is for
printing reasons then we can remove it and renumber the chapters.
On 1/4/22 5:48 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Yes, I fully agree. I'll read it and decide whether we can remove it. As
> for the structure, I assume we want to include both volumes in a single
> production. In that case would it be acceptable to renumber the chapters
> in the second volume? It doesn't seem like there's a logical division
> between Volume 1 and Volume 2. There could however be a logical division
> between his voyage to the Arctic and his one to the Pacific, so maybe we
> could separate those two voyages?
>
> Each volume contains a table of contents that includes a short
> description of the chapter, for example:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f9ae566-74d6-43cc-896e-831530c30eafn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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division where there was none. But if the volume division is for
printing reasons then we can remove it and renumber the chapters.
On 1/4/22 5:48 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Yes, I fully agree. I'll read it and decide whether we can remove it. As
> for the structure, I assume we want to include both volumes in a single
> production. In that case would it be acceptable to renumber the chapters
> in the second volume? It doesn't seem like there's a logical division
> between Volume 1 and Volume 2. There could however be a logical division
> between his voyage to the Arctic and his one to the Pacific, so maybe we
> could separate those two voyages?
>
> Each volume contains a table of contents that includes a short
> description of the chapter, for example:
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/9f9ae566-74d6-43cc-896e-831530c30eafn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
>
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 13, 2022, 4:20:38 PM1/13/22
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So I've gone through the introduction and the first journal, and I'm of the (soft) opinion that we would be fine cutting the introduction. The introduction consists of:
1) A general history of the fur trade from Canada to the north-west (139 pages): mostly exactly as it sounds, although there is some first person narrative of Mackenzie's early experience with the fur trade. On the whole, quite technical and probably not interesting for most readers (especially anyone reading for pleasure). I feel like the earlier, much shorter, introduction by Robert Waite actually does a better job of putting Mackenzie's journeys in context.
2) Accounts of the Knisteneaux and Chepeway tribes (50 pages): a (by modern standards politically incorrect) description of two of the important tribes for fur traders. Mackenzie himself did spend a lot of time with the tribes so a lot of this is based on first-hand experience. Contains glossaries which as far as I can tell are not referenced anywhere else in the text.
As I said, my opinion is to cut it, but I don't think it's necessarily a clearcut case. My main issues are that it's long (over half the first volume), mostly quite dull, and a modern reader would be inclined to skip it anyways to get to his journals. Thoughts?
Alex Cabal
Jan 14, 2022, 6:11:42 PM1/14/22
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OK, let's cut it then, as an old history outside of our collections
policy. Please make a note in the production notes. Thanks!
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policy. Please make a note in the production notes. Thanks!
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 15, 2022, 9:57:24 AM1/15/22
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Thanks Alex. I have a few more questions/concerns.
1. The full title is "Voyages from Montreal Through the Continent of North America", with the subtitle "To the Frozen and Pacific Oceans in 1789 and 1793". Keeping the main title is a bit misleading because his journals actually start in Alberta. The journey from Montreal to Alberta is covered in general terms (not specifically his journey – he did it multiple times) in the introduction to the fur trade. Would the subtitle be a better title for this work?
2. There are a few minor characters appearing in the journals who are introduced in the cut material. It's not essential to the story, but would it be worthwhile adding a small number of endnotes (perhaps quoting directly from the general introduction) to explain who these people are?
3. I know you said earlier not to separate the two journeys, but I feel like that separation wasn't needed in the print version because it had a detailed ToC that we're cutting. For what it's worth, there's no ambiguity about where to place the breaks. There's a three year gap in the journal between voyages.
4. There's some inconsistency in how dates are recorded, for instance sometimes (most of the time) the month is given at the beginning of the chapter and each entry begins with a day of the week and the date,
Sometimes however, an entire date is given at the beginning of the chapter,
In those cases, subsequent dates are given as month and date,
Is it worth standardizing this?
I know these changes require some extensive editorial changes which we're (quite rightly) reluctant to do.
Alex Cabal
Jan 15, 2022, 5:24:26 PM1/15/22
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OK. So if the title of the book depends on the intro, and there are
characters in the journal that were introduced in the intro, then
perhaps the intro should be kept after all.
I think it's only worth standardizing the dates if we can unambiguously
know at least the day and month of each entry. If not then we can leave
them as-is.
On 1/15/22 9:57 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Thanks Alex. I have a few more questions/concerns.
>
> 1. The full title is "Voyages from Montreal Through the Continent of
> North America", with the subtitle "To the Frozen and Pacific Oceans in
> 1789 and 1793". Keeping the main title is a bit misleading because his
> journals actually start in Alberta. The journey from Montreal to Alberta
> is covered in general terms (not specifically his journey – he did it
> multiple times) in the introduction to the fur trade. Would the subtitle
> be a better title for this work?
>
> 2. There are a few minor characters appearing in the journals who are
> introduced in the cut material. It's not essential to the story, but
> would it be worthwhile adding a small number of endnotes (perhaps
> quoting directly from the general introduction) to explain who these
> people are?
>
> 3. I know you said earlier not to separate the two journeys, but I feel
> like that separation wasn't needed in the print version because it had a
> detailed ToC that we're cutting. For what it's worth, there's no
> ambiguity about where to place the breaks. There's a three year gap in
> the journal between voyages.
>
> 4. There's some inconsistency in how dates are recorded, for instance
> sometimes (most of the time) the month is given at the beginning of the
> chapter and each entry begins with a day of the week and the date,
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/dd0b7a3a-17ab-488b-8294-4ba8c4896a21n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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characters in the journal that were introduced in the intro, then
perhaps the intro should be kept after all.
I think it's only worth standardizing the dates if we can unambiguously
know at least the day and month of each entry. If not then we can leave
them as-is.
On 1/15/22 9:57 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Thanks Alex. I have a few more questions/concerns.
>
> 1. The full title is "Voyages from Montreal Through the Continent of
> North America", with the subtitle "To the Frozen and Pacific Oceans in
> 1789 and 1793". Keeping the main title is a bit misleading because his
> journals actually start in Alberta. The journey from Montreal to Alberta
> is covered in general terms (not specifically his journey – he did it
> multiple times) in the introduction to the fur trade. Would the subtitle
> be a better title for this work?
>
> 2. There are a few minor characters appearing in the journals who are
> introduced in the cut material. It's not essential to the story, but
> would it be worthwhile adding a small number of endnotes (perhaps
> quoting directly from the general introduction) to explain who these
> people are?
>
> 3. I know you said earlier not to separate the two journeys, but I feel
> like that separation wasn't needed in the print version because it had a
> detailed ToC that we're cutting. For what it's worth, there's no
> ambiguity about where to place the breaks. There's a three year gap in
> the journal between voyages.
>
> 4. There's some inconsistency in how dates are recorded, for instance
> sometimes (most of the time) the month is given at the beginning of the
> chapter and each entry begins with a day of the week and the date,
> Screen Shot 2022-01-15 at 10.12.42 AM.png
> Sometimes however, an entire date is given at the beginning of the chapter,
> Sometimes however, an entire date is given at the beginning of the chapter,
> Screen Shot 2022-01-15 at 10.16.29 AM.png
> In those cases, subsequent dates are given as month and date,
> In those cases, subsequent dates are given as month and date,
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/dd0b7a3a-17ab-488b-8294-4ba8c4896a21n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
>
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 15, 2022, 7:01:36 PM1/15/22
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Yeah I guess we can add the intro back. It's a bit disappointing because most of it is not really what we want, and uninteresting on top of that. For practical purposes endnotes would actually be more useful for the reader because most of the characters are introduced in a single sentence, and it's not likely a reader would remember a single sentence from a 150 page introduction ( I certainly didn't). But yeah that would be an editorial edit.
The day and month are there in all cases, but in some cases it's listed with the day of the week, which is of course not difficult to find out but would be tedious. Should we just list everything as month/date (e.g. February 2)?
Alex Cabal
Jan 17, 2022, 5:07:31 PM1/17/22
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OK, then you can standardize on the day and the month for all of them,
and include the extra info like day of the week for an entry if it's there.
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and include the extra info like day of the week for an entry if it's there.
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 18, 2022, 3:06:23 PM1/18/22
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Regarding the introduction, is it at all relevant that more recent reprints (not out of public domain) have omitted it? For example this one omits the introduction and his voyage to the arctic (which I suppose means the editor agreed that the two voyages are stand-alone). The most popular version on Amazon has also dropped Montreal from the title as did this one and this one, although I can't tell if they actually did cut the introduction.
Alex Cabal
Jan 18, 2022, 7:01:10 PM1/18/22
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OK, so if we remove the intro what would the proposed new title be?
On 1/18/22 2:06 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Regarding the introduction, is it at all relevant that more recent
> reprints (not out of public domain) have omitted it? For example this
> one
> <https://www.google.com/books/edition/First_Man_West/bfrza-4ROJ0C?hl=en&gbpv=0> omits
> the introduction /and/ his voyage to the arctic (which I suppose means
> this one
> <https://www.amazon.com/Journal-Voyage-Pacific-Alexander-MacKenzie/dp/0486288943/ref=sr_1_12?crid=F4GXGRQ3IUSK&keywords=the+journals+of+alexander+mackenzie&qid=1642535939&sprefix=journals+of+Alexander+Mac%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-12>,
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On 1/18/22 2:06 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Regarding the introduction, is it at all relevant that more recent
> reprints (not out of public domain) have omitted it? For example this
> one
> the introduction /and/ his voyage to the arctic (which I suppose means
> the editor agreed that the two voyages are stand-alone). The most
> popular version on Amazon
> <https://www.amazon.com/Journals-Alexander-MacKenzie-Exploring-Across/dp/1589760360/ref=sr_1_1?crid=F4GXGRQ3IUSK&keywords=the+journals+of+alexander+mackenzie&qid=1642535939&sprefix=journals+of+Alexander+Mac%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-1> has
> popular version on Amazon
> also dropped Montreal from the title as did this one
> <https://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Northwest-Territory-Alexander-Mackenzies/dp/B00005VUOM/ref=sr_1_5?crid=F4GXGRQ3IUSK&keywords=the+journals+of+alexander+mackenzie&qid=1642535939&sprefix=journals+of+Alexander+Mac%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-5> and
> this one
> <https://www.amazon.com/Journal-Voyage-Pacific-Alexander-MacKenzie/dp/0486288943/ref=sr_1_12?crid=F4GXGRQ3IUSK&keywords=the+journals+of+alexander+mackenzie&qid=1642535939&sprefix=journals+of+Alexander+Mac%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-12>,
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>
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 19, 2022, 10:14:25 AM1/19/22
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I like the original subtitle, "To the Frozen and Pacific Oceans in 1789 and 1793".
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Alex Cabal
Jan 19, 2022, 4:31:28 PM1/19/22
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Let's call it "Journals" plus the original subtitle (as a subtitle).
Then you can cut the intro after all.
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Then you can cut the intro after all.
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 19, 2022, 5:02:11 PM1/19/22
to Standard Ebooks
Sure, that sounds good.
Ok to add a small number of footnotes quoting from the introduction explaining who some minor characters are? And given that at least one other edition has completely cut the Arctic journey, is it ok to separate the two expeditions?
Alex Cabal
Jan 19, 2022, 5:02:47 PM1/19/22
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Sure
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 25, 2022, 4:36:17 PM1/25/22
to Standard Ebooks
How's this for the cover image (The Solemn Land by J. E. H. MacDonald)?
PD proof: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Fine_Arts_in_Canada/k9qgAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0 (ca page 159 – this book actually contains lots of very nice paintings)
Alex Cabal
Jan 25, 2022, 5:01:36 PM1/25/22
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That works, thanks!
On 1/25/22 3:36 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> How's this for the cover image (The Solemn Land by J. E. H. MacDonald)?
>
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On 1/25/22 3:36 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> How's this for the cover image (The Solemn Land by J. E. H. MacDonald)?
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/8bd74f2b-0487-4545-8fd3-c7a2f989a660n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Lukas Bystricky
Jan 28, 2022, 11:17:35 AM1/28/22
to Standard Ebooks
I'm working on some tables now, and there's two tables as such:
[image: Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.57.45 PM.png]
that look more like glossaries to me. Is it worth it (or possible) to
treat it as a glossary structure (but keeping it as part of the body not
of backmatter), or should I leave it as a table?
[image: Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.57.45 PM.png]
that look more like glossaries to me. Is it worth it (or possible) to
treat it as a glossary structure (but keeping it as part of the body not
of backmatter), or should I leave it as a table?
Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2022, 11:35:25 AM1/28/22
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Yes, that's a glossary so you can mark it up as such. However don't
create a glossary-search-key-map.xml file because it's not actual
reference material for text in the book itself. I think lint should not
complain in this case.
Table looks good, but remove the periods from the headers (except for
am/pm of course).
Instead of the dots, use one em dash that is centered. Dot leaders are
not possible in a sane way with current HTML/CSS limitations. I would
also replace "ditto" with ldquo for readability.
Since this table looks like it groups by month (nov/dec), look in to
adding col/row semantics for accessibility. This is in the HTML spec,
not part of SE per se (as far as we proscribe requirements). See
https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/
It can get a little confusing but it's important to do this for
accessibility reasons.
On 1/28/22 10:13 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> I'm working on some tables now, and there's two tables as such:
> Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.58.56 PM.png
> which I've managed to reproduce to look like:
> Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.56.22 PM.png
> Is that close enough? This is my first SE table, so I'm wondering if
> there's some standard notation to mark empty cells for example that
> maybe I'm missing. Perhaps some thoughts on modernizing the
> punctuation/capitalization in the table would be useful too.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f81fc40b-7ec4-4859-b6c4-0d38738fdb17n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/76232226-818a-4c2e-8f96-3d014f67a8b1n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
create a glossary-search-key-map.xml file because it's not actual
reference material for text in the book itself. I think lint should not
complain in this case.
Table looks good, but remove the periods from the headers (except for
am/pm of course).
Instead of the dots, use one em dash that is centered. Dot leaders are
not possible in a sane way with current HTML/CSS limitations. I would
also replace "ditto" with ldquo for readability.
Since this table looks like it groups by month (nov/dec), look in to
adding col/row semantics for accessibility. This is in the HTML spec,
not part of SE per se (as far as we proscribe requirements). See
https://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/
It can get a little confusing but it's important to do this for
accessibility reasons.
On 1/28/22 10:13 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> I'm working on some tables now, and there's two tables as such:
> Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.57.45 PM.png
> that look more like glossaries to me. Is it worth it (or possible) to
> treat it as a glossary structure (but keeping it as part of the body not
> of backmatter), or should I leave it as a table?
>
> There's also the following table,
> that look more like glossaries to me. Is it worth it (or possible) to
> treat it as a glossary structure (but keeping it as part of the body not
> of backmatter), or should I leave it as a table?
>
> Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.58.56 PM.png
> which I've managed to reproduce to look like:
> Screen Shot 2022-01-28 at 4.56.22 PM.png
> Is that close enough? This is my first SE table, so I'm wondering if
> there's some standard notation to mark empty cells for example that
> maybe I'm missing. Perhaps some thoughts on modernizing the
> punctuation/capitalization in the table would be useful too.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f81fc40b-7ec4-4859-b6c4-0d38738fdb17n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 28, 2022, 4:46:03 PM1/28/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok great, you actually responded to my original deleted question. I'd
abandoned that as a lost cause when I couldn't embed the images ;-)
Here's the updated table, is this what you had in mind?
abandoned that as a lost cause when I couldn't embed the images ;-)
Here's the updated table, is this what you had in mind?
Alex Cabal
Jan 28, 2022, 6:03:43 PM1/28/22
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Yes, but you can do the following:
- Give cells a .5em padding to make it more readable
- Numbers should be right aligned and give them font-variant: tabular-nums
- Nov and Dec should be aligned with their first date, not centered
vertically
- The double top border isn't necessary
- Make sure to review that accessibility link I sent you to make sure
the internal structure reflects correct table logic
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- Give cells a .5em padding to make it more readable
- Numbers should be right aligned and give them font-variant: tabular-nums
- Nov and Dec should be aligned with their first date, not centered
vertically
- The double top border isn't necessary
- Make sure to review that accessibility link I sent you to make sure
the internal structure reflects correct table logic
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Lukas Bystricky
Jan 29, 2022, 5:52:03 AM1/29/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok, I've done that. A few more questions:
1. Lint complains about the ditto marks, " ” missing matching “. " I
suppose this can be ignored?
2. There's a more complicated glossary that contains two different native
languages (see attachment). Each <dd> can have multiple definitions <dt>,
but how should I indicate which language is which?
3. The maps in the scans I found were included as inserts, and not anchored
to a specific point in the text. Should I just keep them in the places that
PG put them, or perhaps include them at the beginning?
1. Lint complains about the ditto marks, " ” missing matching “. " I
suppose this can be ignored?
2. There's a more complicated glossary that contains two different native
languages (see attachment). Each <dd> can have multiple definitions <dt>,
but how should I indicate which language is which?
3. The maps in the scans I found were included as inserts, and not anchored
to a specific point in the text. Should I just keep them in the places that
PG put them, or perhaps include them at the beginning?
Alex Cabal
Jan 30, 2022, 2:35:56 PM1/30/22
to standar...@googlegroups.com
On 1/29/22 4:52 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> Ok, I've done that. A few more questions:
>
> 1. Lint complains about the ditto marks, " ” missing matching “. " I
> suppose this can be ignored?
Lint should not complain about that. There may be something going on
> Ok, I've done that. A few more questions:
>
> 1. Lint complains about the ditto marks, " ” missing matching “. " I
> suppose this can be ignored?
with the HTML. Not sure.
> 2. There's a more complicated glossary that contains two different
> native languages (see attachment). Each <dd> can have multiple
> definitions <dt>, but how should I indicate which language is which?
right now. Use a <table> instead. This might not *technically* be a
glossary, it looks like it's more of a comparison between languages
instead of an actual *glossary* per se.
> 3. The maps in the scans I found were included as inserts, and not
> anchored to a specific point in the text. Should I just keep them in the
> places that PG put them, or perhaps include them at the beginning?
that's fine. If not then you can put them in an appendix.
Lukas Bystricky
Jan 31, 2022, 2:52:13 AM1/31/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok so for the tables, Lint assumes ldquo means "ditto", (as indeed you recommended above) but in the manual (8.7.5.4) it says, "Ditto marks are set with the right double quotation mark glyph (” or U+201D)." I guess that needs to be updated.
Alex Cabal
Jan 31, 2022, 9:38:59 PM1/31/22
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No, rdquo should be correct. There may be an issue with the structure of
the table. We can look at it during the review.
On 1/31/22 1:52 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Ok so for the tables, Lint assumes ldquo means "ditto", (as indeed you
> recommended above) but in the manual (8.7.5.4
> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.6.3/single-page#8.7.5.4>) it says,
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/244be99e-b8f0-4877-9dda-beeb37849f9an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
the table. We can look at it during the review.
On 1/31/22 1:52 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Ok so for the tables, Lint assumes ldquo means "ditto", (as indeed you
> recommended above) but in the manual (8.7.5.4
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 1, 2022, 1:42:21 AM2/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Line 2236 in se_epub_lint.py says
# Remove tds in case ldquo means "ditto mark"
But actually I think you're right that the regex does look for the right quote. It is strange that lint doesn't
complain for me if I replace the right quotes with the left ones.
Here's a minimal example that doesn't work. There has to be at least two dittos on the same row, and the cells have to be formatted.
#centerdata{
text-align: center;
}
<table>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td id="centerdata">”</td>
<td id="centerdata">”</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
Lukas Bystricky
Feb 1, 2022, 2:01:45 AM2/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Just to clarify, to get Lint to not complain about the above example, I can do any or all of the following things:
1. Remove one <td>
2. Remove formatting
3. Change right quote to left quote
Emma Sweeney
Feb 1, 2022, 9:42:34 AM2/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Lint won't complain about the ditto marks if you remove the ids. This use of ids is incorrect anyways (SEMOS 5.1.2.2).
Emma
Alex Cabal
Feb 1, 2022, 10:45:23 AM2/1/22
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That's just a typo in the comment. As you can see it actually removes
rdquo. Your example doesn't work because you put ID attributes on the tds.
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rdquo. Your example doesn't work because you put ID attributes on the tds.
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 1, 2022, 3:06:40 PM2/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok, so ID attributes aren't allowed on tds? If that's the case I would suggest Lint should print out a different error.
Alex Cabal
Feb 1, 2022, 3:10:28 PM2/1/22
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Review the manual link that Emma sent: "id attributes are not used as
hooks for CSS styling."
Duplicate ID attributes will have been caught by either epubcheck or
v.nu during build because that's invalid HTML anyway.
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hooks for CSS styling."
Duplicate ID attributes will have been caught by either epubcheck or
v.nu during build because that's invalid HTML anyway.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/fdbff4e1-9ccd-40c0-beae-7d8b7cf0a662n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 1, 2022, 3:21:29 PM2/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ah whoops, I missed the link that Emma sent. Ok that all makes sense now.
Lukas Bystricky
Feb 5, 2022, 1:48:01 PM2/5/22
to Standard Ebooks
In the PD scans I'm using there's a table like this,
In a later (non PD) reprint, it's displayed as
I assume it's ok to reproduce this even though it comes from a non PD edition?
Regarding the superscripts, is it ok to use the <sup> tag, or should I just keep them as abbreviated regular font units?
Alex Cabal
Feb 5, 2022, 1:54:32 PM2/5/22
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Well you're going to want to make it look like the pd version, except
that there's no good way to do those braces so just omit them.
On 2/5/22 12:48 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> In the PD scans I'm using there's a table like this,
>
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/449f9308-6763-4f59-a43b-64f1c7ecfeban%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
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that there's no good way to do those braces so just omit them.
On 2/5/22 12:48 PM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
> In the PD scans I'm using there's a table like this,
>
> Screen Shot 2022-01-29 at 11.49.48 AM.png
>
> In a later (non PD) reprint, it's displayed as
>
> In a later (non PD) reprint, it's displayed as
> Screen Shot 2022-02-01 at 9.33.34 PM.png
>
> I assume it's ok to reproduce this even though it comes from a non PD
> edition?
>
> Regarding the superscripts, is it ok to use the <sup> tag, or should I
> just keep them as abbreviated regular font units?
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 9:21:29 PM UTC+1 Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Ah whoops, I missed the link that Emma sent. Ok that all makes sense
> now.
>
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 9:10:28 PM UTC+1 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Review the manual link that Emma sent: "id attributes are not
> used as
> hooks for CSS styling."
>
> Duplicate ID attributes will have been caught by either
> epubcheck or
> v.nu <http://v.nu> during build because that's invalid HTML anyway.
>
> I assume it's ok to reproduce this even though it comes from a non PD
> edition?
>
> Regarding the superscripts, is it ok to use the <sup> tag, or should I
> just keep them as abbreviated regular font units?
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 9:21:29 PM UTC+1 Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Ah whoops, I missed the link that Emma sent. Ok that all makes sense
> now.
>
> On Tuesday, February 1, 2022 at 9:10:28 PM UTC+1 Alex Cabal wrote:
>
> Review the manual link that Emma sent: "id attributes are not
> used as
> hooks for CSS styling."
>
> Duplicate ID attributes will have been caught by either
> epubcheck or
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/449f9308-6763-4f59-a43b-64f1c7ecfeban%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 5, 2022, 2:05:06 PM2/5/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok I don't see any reason to keep the line breaks the necessitate the braces anyways, I assume it's fine to get rid of those? And keep the superscript as is?
Alex Cabal
Feb 5, 2022, 2:05:37 PM2/5/22
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Right
> > v.nu <http://v.nu> <http://v.nu <http://v.nu>> during build
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 26, 2022, 5:39:54 AM2/26/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok, I finished my initial proofread. I have some questions:
1. The author uses "an" before all words beginning with h (e.g. an head, an hundred, an huge), as well as some other words, like "an large". Should I replace "an" with "a" in those cases?
2. There are a couple cases where the author separates sentences with a dash for no obvious reason. Can these be removed?
3. The author always capitalizes cardinal directions (North, South, East, West), including in cases such as "an Easterly wind", or "Easternmost", which look strange to me. Do we have a rule on when to do capitalize the directions, or should I just leave it as is?
4. Some suggested modernizations:
pogamagan -> pogamoggan
main land -> mainland
petrolium -> petroleum
whortle berries -> whortleberries
Manitoe -> manitou
grisly bear -> grizzly bear
how ever -> however
swadling -> swaddling
vallies -> valleys
arrow-wood -> arrowwood
bois-picant -> bois piquant (french)
journies -> journeys
halloo -> hallo
epinette -> épinette
centinel -> sentinel
encrease -> increase
strait line -> straight line
fire arms -> firearms
outard -> outardes
Chief Merde-d'our's -> Chief Merde d'Ours
Dog-Rib -> Dogrib
Red-Knife -> Red Knife
Atnah -> Ahtna
Massachusett's -> Massachusetts
Mechilimakina -> Michilimackinac
Chepewyan/Chippewayn -> Chipewyan
James-Bay -> James Bay
Hudson's-Bay Company -> Hudson's Bay Company
Copper-mine-River -> Coppermine River
gulf of St. Laurence -> Gulf of St. Lawrence
5. Some other modernizations, that are maybe a little less clear:
Hudson's Straights -> Hudson Strait
Hudson's Bay -> Hudson Bay
Behring's strait -> Bering Strait
Saskatchiwine -> Saskatchewan
Winipic -> Winnipeg
Utawas River -> Ottawa River
St. Rigest -> St Regis
Mer d'ouest -> Mer de l'Ouest
Alex Cabal
Feb 26, 2022, 12:21:38 PM2/26/22
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On 2/26/22 4:39 AM, Lukas Bystricky wrote:
>
> Ok, I finished my initial proofread. I have some questions:
> 1. The author uses "an" before all words beginning with h (e.g. an head,
> an hundred, an huge), as well as some other words, like "an large".
> Should I replace "an" with "a" in those cases?
No, read it in an English accent
>
> Ok, I finished my initial proofread. I have some questions:
> 1. The author uses "an" before all words beginning with h (e.g. an head,
> an hundred, an huge), as well as some other words, like "an large".
> Should I replace "an" with "a" in those cases?
> 2. There are a couple cases where the author separates sentences with a
> dash for no obvious reason. Can these be removed?
> 3. The author always capitalizes cardinal directions (North, South,
> East, West), including in cases such as "an Easterly wind", or
> "Easternmost", which look strange to me. Do we have a rule on when to do
> capitalize the directions, or should I just leave it as is?
> 4. Some suggested modernizations:
OK to everything in item 4 but don't apply anything in item 5
Robin Whittleton
Feb 26, 2022, 12:31:28 PM2/26/22
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Obligatory ”there is no English accent”, Alex presumably means some stereotypical Cockney accent 😉
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Alex Cabal
Feb 26, 2022, 12:32:08 PM2/26/22
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Doh, of course!
Lukas Bystricky
Feb 26, 2022, 3:20:26 PM2/26/22
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Hmm, I can't get "an large" to sound right even in my best Dick Van Dyke accent, but I'll take your word for it.
So for the directions, I should lowercase everything? Or just words like "Easternmost/Easterly"?
For item 5, how about Behring's strait -> Bering's Strait?
Lukas Bystricky
Feb 26, 2022, 7:00:36 PM2/26/22
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I think aside from those couple issues, this is finally ready for review.
Alex Cabal
Feb 28, 2022, 11:33:41 AM2/28/22
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You can lowercase all of it. "An large" you can change and any instance
of "an" not preceded by a vowel or H
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of "an" not preceded by a vowel or H
>
> >
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 28, 2022, 1:25:11 PM2/28/22
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Ok, that's all done. I think it's ready for review.
Alex Cabal
Feb 28, 2022, 2:17:05 PM2/28/22
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Great work Lukas, I've gone ahead and released it. Good eye for a lot of
that very old spelling.
Some notes for the future:
- Illustrators and writers of introductions are dc:contributor, not
dc:author. Therefore they don't appear in the SE URL. (Unless the
illustrator is a major component of the work).
- For endnotes written by you, use <cite--S.E. Editor</cite>
- Editorial commits should be limited to actual editorial decisions.
Things like fixing typos, removing transcriber insertions, or tweaking
formatting are not editorial, and it clutters up the history.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f509bc8f-b88c-7b2a-f531-02de76b265df%40standardebooks.org>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/36f4ab81-37a3-43e4-8ad1-62387dc2b09en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
that very old spelling.
Some notes for the future:
- Illustrators and writers of introductions are dc:contributor, not
dc:author. Therefore they don't appear in the SE URL. (Unless the
illustrator is a major component of the work).
- For endnotes written by you, use <cite--S.E. Editor</cite>
- Editorial commits should be limited to actual editorial decisions.
Things like fixing typos, removing transcriber insertions, or tweaking
formatting are not editorial, and it clutters up the history.
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Lukas Bystricky
Feb 28, 2022, 4:55:03 PM2/28/22
to Standard Ebooks
Thanks Alex. This was definitely more of a challenge than the first few I've done. Well worth it though!
So if I understand correctly, things like adding/removing italics, or changing the lat/long to be consistent with the SE style guide should not be put in an editorial commit?
Vince
Feb 28, 2022, 5:14:36 PM2/28/22
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Editorial commits are used when changing content, i.e. the actual text, from what is in the scans. So, modernize spelling, which changes the content, is editorial. Changing styling (italics, epub tags, etc.) is not changing the content, just the way the content looks, and therefore isn’t an editorial commit. Fixing a transcription error to match the scan isn’t changing the content, it’s just correcting the content to match what was in the scan. And so forth.
Lukas Bystricky
Mar 1, 2022, 1:03:47 AM3/1/22
to Standard Ebooks
Ok, gotcha. That makes sense.
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