[New-ish project] Māori Mythology compiled by George Grey

[Asher Smith]

A few years ago, I foolishly started producing Polynesian Mythology and got way over my head. In the intervening years, I've done enough other productions that I now believe that I am capable of doing this. In particular, having done music transcription before, I'm capable of doing that.

Page scans: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/mode/2up

https://archive.org/details/polynesianmytho00greygoog/mode/2up

Transcription: https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GrePoly.html

Proposed cover image: https://www.aucklandartgallery.com/explore-art-and-ideas/artwork/289

PD proof for image:https://archive.org/details/newzealandwarshi01cowa/page/230/mode/1up

Given the production history, I wanted to check in before creating a new repository and getting restarted. I think the following things will apply:

1. There's a question in my mind about authorship I'd want to get sorted before I create the new draft project. Basically, George Grey was the British governor of New Zealand at the time and is credited as the author widely. However, the book was largely put together by a Māori man named Te Rangikāheke (this encyclopedia says he contributed at least a quarter of it but was never acknowledged).
   I would definitely want to add him to metadata as a contributor, but I would also consider adding him as a formal co-author. There's certainly a 
2. The title is also in question in my mind. The original title of the collection of mythology was Nga Mahi a nga Tupuna (The Deeds of the Ancestors), but the title in translation is Polynesian Mythology and Ancient Traditional History of the New Zealand Race, As Furnished by their Priests and Chiefs, and it's listed as Polynesian Mythology on Archive.org etc.
   I don't like the title Polynesian Mythology for a couple reasons. First and foremost, it's not actually accurate: it's only a compilation of Māori mythology. I don't know what the best title is, though I would suggest that a direct title of the original title would be appropriate, and we can list the other titles in the metadata.
3. There's two prefaces, so it will need a halftitle page.
4. The 3 tags in the LOC entry are "|a Mythology, Polynesian. [from old catalog] |a Legends |z New Zealand." The problem I'm having is that while the first two have LCSH entries, "New Zealand" does not have a LCSH to itself. The archive.org entry seems to deal with this by omitting "New Zealand" as a subject, so I imagine I'll do that as well.
   
5. The appendix has quite a lot of music in it, but I can just use the process I wrote previously for that. I've already transcribed it, so it's just a case of the preparation steps. One of the songs is sufficiently long that it won't fit on one ereader page (and it didn't fit on one physical page in the printed book), so I'd propose to split it into two SVGs, but only list it as one illustration in the list of illustrations.
6. Chapters have subtitles that will require the new <hgroup> structure.
7. There was an 1855 and an 1885 edition. The transcription I have found from Victoria University is of the 1885 one, and I would propose using that.
8. There are tables of figures in the preface to the second edition. I've worked with tables before in the context of plays, and can search the corpus for other examples.

Does this all make sense? Anything else I should be keeping in mind?

[Alex Cabal]

Re. authorship, I think we should leave the author as it was originally
printed. 1/4 of a contribution is not "largely", and even that much is
historical speculation at this point in time. Plus that article states
the two had a warm and close relationship, and Te had a large corpus of
writing in his own name, so presumably the choice of authorship for this
work was not controversial at the time.

I also think we should also leave the title as-is. Only in very rare
cases do we use different titles than what the translator selected. This
book I don't think is well-known enough to be able to be discovered
under an alternate title - someone searching for this specific book
would think the search results were in error if a different title that
we had picked appeared.

Everything else sounds fine.

On 7/26/23 6:20 PM, Asher Smith wrote:
> A few years ago, I foolishly started producing /Polynesian Mythology/

> and got way over my head. In the intervening years, I've done enough
> other productions that I now believe that I am capable of doing this. In
> particular, having done music transcription before, I'm capable of doing
> that.
>
> Page scans: https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/mode/2up
> https://archive.org/details/polynesianmytho00greygoog/mode/2up
> Transcription: https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GrePoly.html
> Proposed cover
> image: https://www.aucklandartgallery.com/explore-art-and-ideas/artwork/289
> PD proof for
> image:https://archive.org/details/newzealandwarshi01cowa/page/230/mode/1up
>
> Given the production history, I wanted to check in before creating a new
> repository and getting restarted. I think the following things will apply:
>

> 1. There's a question in my mind about authorship I'd want to get

> sorted before I create the new draft project. Basically, George Grey
> was the British governor of New Zealand at the time and is credited
> as the author widely. However, the book was largely put together by
> a Māori man named Te Rangikāheke (this encyclopedia

> <https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t66/te-rangikaheke-wiremu-maihi> says he contributed at least a quarter of it but was never acknowledged).

> I would definitely want to add him to metadata as a contributor, but
> I would also consider adding him as a formal co-author. There's
> certainly a

> 2. The title is also in question in my mind. The original title of the
> collection of mythology was /Nga Mahi a nga Tupuna/ (The Deeds of
> the Ancestors), but the title in translation is /Polynesian

> Mythology and Ancient Traditional History of the New Zealand Race,

> As Furnished by their Priests and Chiefs/, and it's listed as
> /Polynesian Mythology/ on Archive.org etc.
> I don't like the title /Polynesian Mythology/ for a couple reasons.

> First and foremost, it's not actually accurate: it's only a
> compilation of Māori mythology. I don't know what the best title is,
> though I would suggest that a direct title of the original title
> would be appropriate, and we can list the other titles in the metadata.

> 3. There's two prefaces, so it will need a halftitle page.
> 4. The 3 tags in the LOC entry <https://lccn.loc.gov/04006852> are
> "|*a* Mythology, Polynesian. [from old catalog]
> |*a* Legends |*z* New Zealand." The problem I'm having is that while

> the first two have LCSH entries, "New Zealand" does not have a LCSH

> to itself. The archive.org <http://archive.org/> entry seems to deal

> with this by omitting "New Zealand" as a subject, so I imagine I'll
> do that as well.

> 5. The appendix has quite a lot of music in it, but I can just use the
> process I wrote
> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-scores> previously for that. I've already transcribed it, so it's just a case of the preparation steps. One of the songs is sufficiently long that it won't fit on one ereader page (and it didn't fit on one physical page in the printed book), so I'd propose to split it into two SVGs, but only list it as one illustration in the list of illustrations.
> 6. Chapters have subtitles that will require the new <hgroup> structure.
> 7. There was an 1855 and an 1885 edition. The transcription I have

> found from Victoria University is of the 1885 one, and I would
> propose using that.

> 8. There are tables of figures in the preface to the second edition.

> I've worked with tables before in the context of plays, and can
> search the corpus for other examples.
>
> Does this all make sense? Anything else I should be keeping in mind?
>

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[Asher Smith]

OK, that sounds all good to me. I've added the original Māori title as an alternative one in the metadata. Can I add Te Rangikāheke as a contributor in the metadata? If not with a coathor role, then a contributor one.

Here's the restarted repo:

https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology

[Asher Smith]

An initial question: in a table like the below that has sums halfway down as well as the bottom, do I use multiple <tfoot> elements? Or is it only the grand total that is put in a <tfoot>?

My initial guess at formatting is:

<p>Description of books, Māori Language.</p>

<table>

<thead>

<tr>

<th>I. Publications.</th>

<th>Books.</th>

<th>Leaves.</th>

</tr>

</thead>

<tbody>

<tr>

<td>Folio</td>

<td>132</td>

<td>264</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Quarto</td>

<td>17</td>

<td>308</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Octavo</td>

<td>79</td>

<td>4,737</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Duodecimo</td>

<td>57</td>

<td>1,956</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Sedecimo and smaller</td>

<td>16</td>

<td>906</td>

</tr>

</tbody>

<tfoot>

<tr>

<td>Total of Publications</td>

<td>301</td>

<td>8,171</td>

</tr>

</tfoot>

<thead>

<tr>

<th>II. Manuscripts.</th>

<th>—</th>

<th>—</th>

</tr>

</thead>

<tbody>

<tr>

<td>Folio</td>

<td>174</td>

<td>3,564</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Quarto</td>

<td>44</td>

<td>990</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Octavo</td>

<td>5</td>

<td>491</td>

</tr>

</tbody>

<tfoot>

<tr>

<td>Total of Manuscripts</td>

<td>223</td>

<td>5,045</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Total of Maori Books</td>

<td>524</td>

<td>13,216</td>

</tr>

</tfoot>

</table>

Another note: I'm going to be restoring proper accents throughout the book; basically "Maori" becomes "Māori" everywhere.

[Alex Cabal]

Sure. Contributor is fine. Lukas can you manage this with Emma reviewing?

> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/mode/2up>
> > https://archive.org/details/polynesianmytho00greygoog/mode/2up

> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmytho00greygoog/mode/2up>
> > Transcription:
> https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GrePoly.html
> <https://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GrePoly.html>
> > Proposed cover
> > image:
> https://www.aucklandartgallery.com/explore-art-and-ideas/artwork/289
> <https://www.aucklandartgallery.com/explore-art-and-ideas/artwork/289>
> > PD proof for
> >

> image:https://archive.org/details/newzealandwarshi01cowa/page/230/mode/1up <https://archive.org/details/newzealandwarshi01cowa/page/230/mode/1up>

> >
> > Given the production history, I wanted to check in before
> creating a new
> > repository and getting restarted. I think the following things
> will apply:
> >
> > 1. There's a question in my mind about authorship I'd want to get
> > sorted before I create the new draft project. Basically, George Grey
> > was the British governor of New Zealand at the time and is credited
> > as the author widely. However, the book was largely put together by
> > a Māori man named Te Rangikāheke (this encyclopedia
> >

> <https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t66/te-rangikaheke-wiremu-maihi <https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t66/te-rangikaheke-wiremu-maihi>> says he contributed at least a quarter of it but was never acknowledged).

> > I would definitely want to add him to metadata as a contributor, but
> > I would also consider adding him as a formal co-author. There's
> > certainly a
> > 2. The title is also in question in my mind. The original title
> of the
> > collection of mythology was /Nga Mahi a nga Tupuna/ (The Deeds of
> > the Ancestors), but the title in translation is /Polynesian
> > Mythology and Ancient Traditional History of the New Zealand Race,
> > As Furnished by their Priests and Chiefs/, and it's listed as
> > /Polynesian Mythology/ on Archive.org etc.
> > I don't like the title /Polynesian Mythology/ for a couple reasons.
> > First and foremost, it's not actually accurate: it's only a
> > compilation of Māori mythology. I don't know what the best title is,
> > though I would suggest that a direct title of the original title
> > would be appropriate, and we can list the other titles in the
> metadata.
> > 3. There's two prefaces, so it will need a halftitle page.
> > 4. The 3 tags in the LOC entry <https://lccn.loc.gov/04006852
> <https://lccn.loc.gov/04006852>> are
> > "|*a* Mythology, Polynesian. [from old catalog]
> > |*a* Legends |*z* New Zealand." The problem I'm having is that while
> > the first two have LCSH entries, "New Zealand" does not have a LCSH
> > to itself. The archive.org <http://archive.org>

> <http://archive.org/ <http://archive.org/>> entry seems to deal

> > with this by omitting "New Zealand" as a subject, so I imagine I'll
> > do that as well.
> > 5. The appendix has quite a lot of music in it, but I can just
> use the
> > process I wrote
> >

> <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-scores <https://standardebooks.org/contribute/how-tos/how-to-create-figures-for-music-scores>> previously for that. I've already transcribed it, so it's just a case of the preparation steps. One of the songs is sufficiently long that it won't fit on one ereader page (and it didn't fit on one physical page in the printed book), so I'd propose to split it into two SVGs, but only list it as one illustration in the list of illustrations.

> > 6. Chapters have subtitles that will require the new <hgroup>
> structure.
> > 7. There was an 1855 and an 1885 edition. The transcription I have
> > found from Victoria University is of the 1885 one, and I would
> > propose using that.
> > 8. There are tables of figures in the preface to the second edition.
> > I've worked with tables before in the context of plays, and can
> > search the corpus for other examples.
> >
> > Does this all make sense? Anything else I should be keeping in mind?
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6ed8c4e0-0c7e-4d7a-bd4f-3a6729f87f53n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6ed8c4e0-0c7e-4d7a-bd4f-3a6729f87f53n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6ed8c4e0-0c7e-4d7a-bd4f-3a6729f87f53n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6ed8c4e0-0c7e-4d7a-bd4f-3a6729f87f53n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
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[Lukas Bystricky]

Sure, I can manage. One caveat is that I'll be on vacation from August 5th - 20th, so I may be a bit slow at responding (this may be more relevant for the projects I'm reviewing).

I don't think you can have more than one tfoot/thead child inside a table (see here), so I guess you can just treat those sub-totals as regular data, using CSS to format as appropriate. Also see here for an example of a table with headers in the middle of the table body.

[Asher Smith]

Something like this?

<table>

<thead>

<th colspan="3" scope="rowgroup">Description of books, Maori Language.</th>

</thead>

<tbody>

<tr>

<th scope="row"><span epub:type="z3998:roman">I</span>. Publications.</th>

<th>Books.</th>

<th>Leaves.</th>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Total of Publications</td>

<td>301</td>

<td>8,171</td>

</tr>

</tbody>

<tbody>

<tr>

<th><span epub:type="z3998:roman">II</span>. Manuscripts.</th>

<th>—</th>

<th>—</th>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Folio</td>

<td>174</td>

<td>3,564</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Quarto</td>

<td>44</td>

<td>990</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Octavo</td>

<td>5</td>

<td>491</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td>Total of Manuscripts</td>

<td>223</td>

<td>5,045</td>

</tr>

</tbody>

<tfoot>

<tr>

<th scope="row">Total of Maori Books</th>

<td>524</td>

<td>13,216</td>

</tr>

</tfoot>

</table>

With this in the css

/*Preface 2 table formatting*/

#preface-2 tbody tr:last-child{

line-height: 2;

text-indent; 1em;

}

#preface-2 tfoot{

line-height: 2;

}

#preface-2 table td:last-child,

#preface-2 table td:nth-last-child(2){

font-variant-numeric: tabular-nums;

text-align: right;

}

/*End preface 2 table formatting*/

Naturally this works in the online css test tool I was using, but not when I add it to the real files, but oh well, I'll figure that out eventually.

[Asher Smith]

Could you remind me of the standard way to deal with when an endnote links to somewhere else in the book? I know we don't use page numbers or chapter numbers, but I can't find it in the manual.

[Emma Sweeney]

I'll review.

Emma

[Lukas Bystricky]

The table looks ok on my online validator too,  although you may want to consider replicating the borders.

The manual does have an example of this here, although maybe it's not easy to find if you don't know what to look for. It's ok to write whatever you think is best to introduce the reference, I think "see here" is more standard than "see this paragraph". 

When you're creating the links for the first time don't worry so much about the numbering, just make sure they're unique. For example what I do is use the page number, e.g. id="chapter-1-p-18" for a reference to page 18. After you've created all the links you can run "se build-ids", and that will create the proper numbering for you and fix all the links automatically.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Of course my second paragraph is answering your question about linking to a specific place in the book in case that's not clear. 

[Asher Smith]

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks. I'll have a look at replicating the borders of that table, too.

Here's some fun, niche questions about archaic music notation that were the things that stopped me taking this up last year. Grey says the following:

This is, of course, crazy, and not at all what modern notation is.

• The x symbol he's using for half sharp is basically the , which is now used for double sharp. The modern symbol for half sharp is 
• The symbol he's using for three quarter sharp looks a lot like the modern symbol for triple sharp. The modern symbol for three quarter sharp is 
• The symbol he's using for half flat looks like one commonly used in Turkish classical music. The modern symbol for half flat is 
• The symbol he's using for three quarter flat looks like a Turkish classical music symbol; the modern symbol is 

Of course, because this notation is not super common, there are alternatives; I have listed above the most common ones (the ones found on Wikipedia and that I have actually seen in music notation), but there are other options:

I would argue that this is fundamentally a spelling issue, and should be treated the same as all spelling modernisation, and would propose the following course of action:

• Replace all archaic symbols with their modern equivalents in all of the music notation
• In an [Editorial] commit, update the paragraph above to reflect that. Remove the phrase "St. Andrew's cross or saltier x" but otherwise just change the symbols that are present.
• Put a comment about that in the production notes.

See below an example from the page scans of what the titles of those pieces originally looked like. Here are the decisions I'm making about that:

• Treat the titles of the piece like figure captions, which is to say do them in the xhtml rather than in the svg
• Remove the references to page number. I don't want to have to have an endnote in the music, and I don't think I could make the linking work at all.

In a miscellaneous note, it seems like the standard for MusicXML files has changed in the years since I last produced a book with music in it; it is now .mxl rather than .xml or .musicxml. I'm going to save it as the modern file type, especially given that MuseScore handles that well.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Regarding the musical notation, I think we'll need Alex's input on that.

I think it makes sense to do the titles in the xhtml instead of inside the svg. You should leave the page number and the endnote though. There shouldn't be any problems linking endnotes to the title if it's in the xhtml. 

[Asher Smith]

The one problem with that is that the other text immediately above the staves (e.g. “Reduced by James Davies”) is being attached to the staves in the SVG because in other staves that’s where instructions like “Largo” or “Solo” go (see below). It could be put in an endnote attached to the title?

There is one place where I was proposing to put a footnote actually in the sheet music, because it needs to be visible to the musician on the same page.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, I think I see now. Yeah you could still put the page number as an endnote attached to the title. It's a little bit like an implicit op.cit. which should be expanded, so I'd propose including the name of the song collection as well as the page number in each endnote.

I think the above situation is probably one the few cases where a footnote makes sense. Alex may override that however. 

[Asher Smith]

Would you say that I should need the “No.1” headers for those songs, or can I get rid of them and just have the text titles of them?

Additionally, it’s looking like I’m going to need to use inline SVGs for the half and three quarter sharp and flat symbols. I’m assuming I just use the alt text of the name of the symbol and don’t include them in the LOI. There is a unicode symbol for half sharp and half flat, but it doesn’t render in my browser at all.

I’m also assuming that I should change the formatting of the Appendix titles to match the standard formatting for all chapters as outlined in SEMOS 8.1.4, right?

You can see in my GitHub repo the current state of the appendix. As with Man and Superman, it’s always the weird little appendices that have a lot of weird formatting and seem to take the most time.

[Lukas Bystricky]

What's the rationale for removing the headers for those songs?

For the symbols, that sounds like a reasonable solution. It's surprising (to me at least) that the unicode characters aren't supported.

The link to your repo isn't working for me, is it maybe private? I may be missing something, but I don't really see any particular challenges with the appendix in this case. It'll just be one "chapter" (Appendix: On the Native Songs of New Zealand) with some sub-chapters (System, Intervals etc). 

[Asher Smith]

Whoops, it was private. That should be fixed now.

It’s not that the appendix has any wild sectioning, it’s just that the rest of the chapters have nothing crazier than xml:lang and block quotes for verse. Meanwhile, there’s 20 different images in the appendix, and they’re put in in 3 different ways.

The reasoning for changing the headers to the songs is that it made more sense for the title of the song to be in the <h4> element, rather than just the number. I think I can fix the CSS to make the title clump together more, though, and that will do much the same thing.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Are you sure those need to be <h4> though? We only use h elements for things we want to appear in the table of contents. I'm not sure that is the case here. I think they should show up in the LOI only. SEMOS 7.10.2.8 shows how to include titles that don't show up in the ToC. I would leave the numbers as in the scans for now, but we can revisit that later. 

[Asher Smith]

Oh, perfect, that’s exactly what I need. I would also wonder about the sections in the appendix - at least half of the appendix is not in any section at all, so I’m not convinced it makes sense to include them at all.

[Asher Smith]

Also, some other things

• The appendices are currently titled “Appendix No. 1.” and I’m going to change that to “Appendix I” as outlined in SEMOS 8.1.4
• The appendix italicises names, like Plutarch, which I think should be removed. It also inconsistently italicises quotes from some people, and I think that should also be removed (except for those that are italicised because they’re in Latin)
• When I include a <figure> inside a <p>, I can’t make the image be centred. Should I wrap it in a <div> to do so, or should I split the <p> element into one before and one after, giving the second one a “continued” class?

And regarding the title of the appendix:

• Should I be replicating the way it’s split into different levels of subtitles?
• There’s some greek that is not rendered in small caps in the original scans. Should I put this in a <span> and target it to avoid small caps?

[Robin Whittleton]

Not sure why you’d need inline SVGs? Musescroe will happily do three-quarter flats, double sharps, etc. E.g.:

It’s not exactly the same notation, but I’d say that we’d use modern engraving standards.

-Robin

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[Asher Smith]

That is more or less what I’m doing, with modern notation in place of the non-standard notation Grey used. I need inline SVGs because there doesn’t seem to be a unicode character for the three-quarter flat and sharp symbols and Grey uses them in the middle of prose to explain what he’s doing, so I’ve saved the symbol MuseScore uses as a small SVG and have put it inline in the text. You can see that on line 81 here.

[Asher Smith]

That renders to look like this in context:

[Robin Whittleton]

Aha, makes more sense now, thanks.

On 30 Jul 2023, at 14:37, Asher Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com> wrote:

That renders to look like this in context:

<PastedGraphic-3.png>

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[Asher Smith]

In addition to those questions, what do we do about compound fractions? I can’t find anything in either the manual or the discussion board about that.

On 30 Jul 2023, at 12:59, Asher Smith <ForLackOfA...@gmail.com> wrote:

Also, some other things

• The appendices are currently titled “Appendix No. 1.” and I’m going to change that to “Appendix I” as outlined in SEMOS 8.1.4
• The appendix italicises names, like Plutarch, which I think should be removed. It also inconsistently italicises quotes from some people, and I think that should also be removed (except for those that are italicised because they’re in Latin)
• When I include a <figure> inside a <p>, I can’t make the image be centred. Should I wrap it in a <div> to do so, or should I split the <p> element into one before and one after, giving the second one a “continued” class?

And regarding the title of the appendix:

<PastedGraphic-2.png>

[Weijia Cheng]

There's an example of a compound fraction in chapter 4 of memoir 1 of What Is Property? CTRL-F "3,000×100"

[Asher Smith]

Thanks for pointing that out. Lukas, does this mean that I should be doing the rest of the fractions in that section in the same way? That goes against SEMOS 8.8.6.2, but I don’t see another way to get consistency.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Thanks Robin and Weijia.

For the appendix, I would still treat those heading as separate sections. It's not uncommon for the first part of a chapter to be independent of any sub-chapter. 

Agreed that you should replace arabic with roman numerals in the appendix titles. Likewise removing italics and adding quotes where appropriate (editorial commit). 

We should avoid divs wherever possible, so another solution to the centering problem would be preferred. Can you not use a span for example?

I'd need to see some examples of the fractions in question. If they're describing fundamentally different things than the compound fractions, then I don't think you need to be consistent. 

[Asher Smith]

No such luck with fractions, I’m afraid. They’re mixed in with the non-compound ones in the same line.

Still can’t figure out the centring issue; I’ve taken them out of the <p> elements and am targeting them for other things, but can’t seem to make it display the SVG in the middle of the block. I’ll keep poking at it.

OK, I’ll keep looking at section headings. I seem to have done something quite significantly wrong for the chapter headings, too, so will have to look at what’s going on there more broadly.

Any call on the subtitles?

[Lukas Bystricky]

Sorry I missed that one! In general we use titlecase for all titles, so nothing there should be in caps (large or small) anyways. In this particular case, the second subtitle looks more like a kind of bridgehead to me, see SEMOS 7.2.11.

[Lukas Bystricky]

For the fractions, might it not be better to put everything as a ratio? That would be the simplest way of doing it and it would fit with the other ratios in that paragraph.

If that doesn't make sense for some reason, then I think your first instinct is correct to make all the fractions look the same. 

[Asher Smith]

Happy to make them all ratios. That makes the most sense to me.

Also happy to do a bridgehead for that, though I have a similar question for the full subtitle for inclusion on the half title page:

I’m assuming I can cut the description of the author there, but the first part of the subtitle (and ancient traditional history of the New Zealand race,) and the second part (as furnished by their priests and chiefs) feel like the should be separated out. The toolset complains if I try to include the comma in the title, too.

In another issue, there’s one chapter that has an alternative version of the story following the primary version set as a note with smaller type:

This continues for several pages, which makes me think that converting it to an endnote would be inappropriate. Is this a block quote that I should style as such? Or should I add a <hr> and treat it like normal text?

[Lukas Bystricky]

Progress and Poverty is an example of a book with two subtitles. You can copy what was done there in both the halftitle page and the content.opf. Remove the comma from the main title.

Yeah that formatting of the alternate version of the story is a little strange. I would just have it as regular text. Since it's not a direct quote of anything as far as I can tell, it shouldn't go in a blockquote, and I don't think an <hr> is needed either. If this is a change from the existing transcription formatting, mark it as an editorial change. 

[Lukas Bystricky]

Alternatively, if you think it really should be an endnote you can move it there. There have been some long endnotes in other productions (see here for instance).

[Asher Smith]

I think I prefer it as normal text.

By the way, is this what you mean about giving the songs header elements?

<section id="appendix-1-music-2">

<header>

<h3><span epub:type="label"><abbr>No.</abbr></span> 2.</h3>

<p epub:type="title">A Lamentation<a href="endnotes.xhtml#note-47" id="noteref-47" epub:type="noteref">47</a></p>

</header>

<figure class="full-page" id="music-13">

<img alt="13 bars of music for voice." src="../images/music-13.svg" epub:type="z3998:illustration se:image.color-depth.black-on-transparent"/>

</figure>

</section>

This feels wrong to me, but also it gives an error if there's a header element without a section or if there is a header element without a title. I think I want all the subsections of the appendix excluded from the table of contents, but I don’t have a good explanation for why that makes sense other than that they’re really short and it doesn’t make sense to me stylistically.

I’m also running into an issue with the inline SVGs:

<img alt="three-quarter sharp symbol" class="inline" src="../images/three-quarter-sharp.svg" epub:type="z3998:illustration se:image.color-depth.black-on-transparent"/>

alt attribute does not appear to end with punctuation. alt attributes

must be composed of complete sentences ending in appropriate

punctuation.  

The problem I have with this is that it’s just a symbol, and if someone is replacing the image with the alt text, that will make sense in the sentence.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Not exactly. You should follow what's done in 7.2.10.8 for the headers. In particular no <h> element, and target <header> with the appropriate CSS given there.

SEMOS 7.8.2.2 talks about alt text. The actual rule should be re-written, but the important thing is that the alt text doesn't have to be a complete sentence. Fragments are explicitly allowed if appropriate, but there needs to be an ending punctuation. In your case could a comma work? If not, then I think it would be ok to add a lint ignore here.

[Asher Smith]

I think what I’ve changed the headers to now makes sense, thanks. I think my problem came down to mixing up what some lint messages meant. 7.8.2.2 was why I hadn’t put it punctuation, so I’ve added a lint-ignore to deal with that. Almost all of my lint errors now are manual review items I’m dealing with as I proofread.

In an unrelated request, has anybody ever had experience running a production through spell-check? I want to generate a list of the unique words that are not in the MW corpus as a way of double checking the placement of hyphens and macrons in the Māori names. I’m sure I can bodge together something that opens all the xhtml files, copies the words into a text file, and then makes a unique list, but I can’t think of how I would go about screening that list through MW.

[Vince]

Not M-W, but I’ve done something similar with aspell when I’ve done transcriptions.

I have a one line script called “words” that contains:

cat "$1" | tr -cs A-Za-z '\n' | tr A-Z a-z | sort | uniq | sort

So, e.g. “words *.xhtml” will give you a list of all the unique words in the book. I pipe the output to aspell list using the appropriate dictionary (GB or US), which yields a list of words aspell didn’t find. Usually lots of false positives, but the errors usually stand out.

(The one-liner is from a Dr Drang post of over a decade ago, and he in turn got it from Doug McIlroy in a book where McIlroy critiqued a Donald Knuth program.)

[David at Standard Ebooks]

The magic of the Unix command line!

I do some similar things with BBedit on the Mac: getting lists of various kinds, sorting them, removing duplicates. It's a great time-saver.

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[Asher Smith]

Brilliant - that’s a perfect starting point, and it’s particularly useful to then find differences in spellings. As an aside, replacing the second of those parts with sed 's/[^[:alpha:]-]/\n/g' has the ability to find a broader range of letter characters, which was particularly necessary for Māori.

On that note, I have a question about xml:lang tags for the Māori. There are places where the words are italicised and the text is considering it another language, and in those cases it’s easy to know what to do with them. There are cases where the word is the name of a species (e.g. kiwi) and is widely used in modern NZ English, and in those cases it’s easy to know what to do with them. My question is about the in-between cases.

For example, the word ‘pounamu’ is given in parentheses to define it, and then is mentioned twice without any italicisation; I would consider this a fairly common word in modern NZ parlance. My instinct is to leave it as it is, neither italicising nor giving it an xml:lang tag, but I don’t think there’s any good hard and fast line to divide those things. Opinions would be appreciated.

[Vince]

Well, as I (re-)discovered when doing some comparisons just now, I already solved that problem, I just didn’t remember doing so. I had a separate script file in my bin directory containing the one-liner, which is what I sent you, but some time back I added a function to a file I source in my bash profile, and the function uses tr -cs [:alpha:] ‘\n', for the reasons you state. I was doing a/b testing on the script file and not getting different results; it finally occurred to me to do a type words instead of which words. Sigh.

Memory’s the second thing to go…

[Asher Smith]

Despite copying some volumes from the corpus, I seem to have a couple lint errors I can't get rid of easily. One is m-045: Heading Appendix I found, but not present for that file in the ToC. It looks to me like that heading is in the ToC, so I'd appreciate another set of eyes there.

Also, I've been getting an error about n-dashes in the long description in content.opf. Basically, they're not converted to &ndash; by typogrify, so I tried to do that manually, but then I got an error that lint couldn't run on it. Am I missing something here?

This project has been slowed down by needing to basically spellcheck the entire thing to check all the Māori names for hyphenation and macrons, but I'm now down to fewer than 600 names left to check. I'll get there eventually.

[Emma Sweeney]

Your Appendix I title isn't formatted correctly. Look at SEMOS 7.2.10.6. After that is fixed, re-run `se build-title .` and `se build-toc .`

Remove the spaces around the en dashes and re-run `se typogrify .`

Emma

[Asher Smith]

Previously, Alex has said that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, but he has also said that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

[Lukas Bystricky]

My interpretation is that "hallo" and "hollo" are sound-alikes with each other, so they can be standardized. I don't think that applies to "hollo" and "holloa". 

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[Asher Smith]

I think that "hollo" and "holloa" are sound-alikes, too, actually. I think it's a posh British accent thing, so I'd argue for aligning them.

I'd also like to discuss a more significant editorial change. If you look on the scans of page 118, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, see this wikipedia page I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, I don't have a very strong opinion on "hollo" vs "halloa". If you think they're sound-alikes you can modernize them. As long as it's in a separate commit, Alex or the reviewer can revisit later. 

Reordering parts of the text is not something we normally do, but of course there's always exceptions. Do you know if this has been done in later editions?

[Asher Smith]

This 1970 edition takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

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[Asher Smith]

Perhaps interestingly, this edition also adds some clarifying footnotes, such as the below:

On 14 Oct 2023, at 14:09, Asher Smith <ForLackOfA...@gmail.com> wrote:

This 1970 edition takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

<PastedGraphic-12.png>

[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, if other editors also thought that passage was out of place you can move it to wherever you see fit (editorial change of course). I think a production note suffices, no need for a new footnote. 

Those other footnotes may be interesting, but if they're not in the PD edition we can't use them unfortunately. 

[Asher Smith]

Yes, agreed about the footnotes; just interesting to note, and it’s one of the few times that I regret that the addition of that sort of note is not within our remit.

OK, so then the options for that section are to

1. Leave it where it is
2. Move it to the end of the chapter that it is a different version of, and keep the introductory note there exactly as-is
3. Make it a new chapter as the more modern edition does, either removing the introductory note or making it an endnote.

I prefer option 2, so will go ahead and do that in an editorial commit as soon as I’ve finished updating all of the spellings.

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok, that sounds reasonable to me. 

And yeah, I've come across this a few times where there's an introduction or some interesting footnotes that either an editor or the author themself added many years later. You can always add those endnotes in 2065. Make sure to mark it in your calendar. ;-)

[Asher Smith]

OK, I'm finally through the spelling modernising; I had to go through a list of several thousand Māori words one by one and check them in a dictionary to see if they should have macrons in/on them. Hard to motivate myself to work on this when it's going to be just hours and hours of that (never mind the craziness in my personal life). That thankfully done, I'm about halfway through the proofreading for everything else so this may someday be completed.

[Asher Smith]

I've just discovered that two chapters are actually subchapters of the same chapter and need to be combined. When I have done so, I need to rename all of the later files. Is there any particular way I should do this that preserves the commit history better? Simply renaming them and then committing changes the content of the chapter rather than the name of the file, and I'm not sure that this can be done differently.

[Asher Smith]

I've undone that and am changing the titles in github directly as that seems to preserve the history. This works, but is slow. What should I do in the future?

[Alex Cabal]

No way around renaming files, whatever Git does is fine.

> 1. Leave it where it is
> 2. Move it to the end of the chapter that it is a

> different version of, and keep the introductory note
> there exactly as-is

> 3. Make it a new chapter as the more modern edition

> does, either removing the introductory note or
> making it an endnote.
>
> I prefer option 2, so will go ahead and do that in an
> editorial commit as soon as I’ve finished updating all
> of the spellings.
>
>> On 14 Oct 2023, at 16:20, Lukas Bystricky
>> <lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ok, if other editors also thought that passage was out
>> of place you can move it to wherever you see fit
>> (editorial change of course). I think a production
>> note suffices, no need for a new footnote.
>>
>> Those other footnotes may be interesting, but if
>> they're not in the PD edition we can't use them
>> unfortunately.
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 3:11:46 PM UTC+2
>> Asher Smith wrote:
>>
>> Perhaps interestingly, this edition also adds some
>> clarifying footnotes, such as the below:
>>
>>
>>

>>> On 14 Oct 2023, at 14:09, Asher Smith
>>> <ForLackOfA...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This 1970 edition

>>> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

>>>
>>> <PastedGraphic-12.png>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 14 Oct 2023, at 06:37, Lukas Bystricky
>>>> <lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ok, I don't have a very strong opinion on
>>>> "hollo" vs "halloa". If you think they're
>>>> sound-alikes you can modernize them. As long as
>>>> it's in a separate commit, Alex or the reviewer
>>>> can revisit later.
>>>>
>>>> Reordering parts of the text is not something we
>>>> normally do, but of course there's always
>>>> exceptions. Do you know if this has been done in
>>>> later editions?
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:15:05 AM
>>>> UTC+2 Asher Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think that "hollo" and "holloa" are
>>>> sound-alikes, too, actually. I think it's a
>>>> posh British accent thing, so I'd argue for
>>>> aligning them.
>>>>
>>>> I'd also like to discuss a more significant
>>>> editorial change. If you look on the scansof
>>>> page 118

>>>> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:57:23 PM
>>>> UTC+1lukasby...@gmail.comwrote:
>>>>
>>>> My interpretation is that "hallo" and
>>>> "hollo" are sound-alikes with each
>>>> other, so they can be standardized. I
>>>> don't think that applies to "hollo" and
>>>> "holloa".
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 2:33 PM Asher
>>>> Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Previously,Alex has said

>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, August 26, 2023 at
>>>> 10:17:29 PM UTC+1 Emma Sweeney wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Your Appendix I title isn't
>>>> formatted correctly. Look
>>>> atSEMOS 7.2.10.6

>>>> <https://standardebooks.org/manual/1.7.3/single-page#7.2.10.6>. After that is fixed, re-run `se build-title .` and `se build-toc .`

>>>> function usestr -cs

>>>> [:alpha:] ‘\n', for the
>>>> reasons you state. I was
>>>> doing a/b testing on the
>>>> script file and not
>>>> getting different
>>>> results; it finally
>>>> occurred to me to do
>>>> atype wordsinstead

>>>> ofwhich words. Sigh.

>>>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>.

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>>>> topics, send an email
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>>>> To view this discussion on the web

>>>> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>>>
>>
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>
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[Asher Smith]

What is the SE position on using an [editorial] commit to divide up dialogue into modern spacing? The edition I'm looking at will group an entire conversation of back and forth dialogue into one paragraph, and I'm wondering if I should split that into moden spacing with one speaker per paragraph.

[Asher Smith]

I'm also unable to find a double space in one file as indicated by a lint comment:

> Double spacing found. Sentences should be single-spaced. (Note that double spaces might include Unicode no-break spaces!)

Any suggestions on how to find it if a regex search isn't working?

@Lukas - are you still managing this project? If so, could I ask you to take a look at the repository for me (https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology)? I have left a number of <!--comments--> where I would appreciate some advice.

This project was significantly slowed by trying to write a wikipedia page for the book as I did the reviewing, but that is now done and I think this is more or less in the home stretch. At long last.

[Alex Cabal]

Editorial is fine for that. If it aids in readability then you can break
it up.

> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

> >>>
> >>> <PastedGraphic-12.png>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 14 Oct 2023, at 06:37, Lukas Bystricky
> >>>> <lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, I don't have a very strong opinion on
> >>>> "hollo" vs "halloa". If you think they're
> >>>> sound-alikes you can modernize them. As long as
> >>>> it's in a separate commit, Alex or the reviewer
> >>>> can revisit later.
> >>>>
> >>>> Reordering parts of the text is not something we
> >>>> normally do, but of course there's always
> >>>> exceptions. Do you know if this has been done in
> >>>> later editions?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:15:05 AM
> >>>> UTC+2 Asher Smith wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that "hollo" and "holloa" are
> >>>> sound-alikes, too, actually. I think it's a
> >>>> posh British accent thing, so I'd argue for
> >>>> aligning them.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd also like to discuss a more significant
> >>>> editorial change. If you look on the scansof
> >>>> page 118
> >>>>

> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

> >>>>
> >>>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:57:23 PM
> >>>> UTC+1lukasby...@gmail.comwrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My interpretation is that "hallo" and
> >>>> "hollo" are sound-alikes with each
> >>>> other, so they can be standardized. I
> >>>> don't think that applies to "hollo" and
> >>>> "holloa".
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 2:33 PM Asher
> >>>> Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Previously,Alex has said
> >>>>

> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Alex Cabal]

Try \s\s+

> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

> >>>
> >>> <PastedGraphic-12.png>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 14 Oct 2023, at 06:37, Lukas Bystricky
> >>>> <lukasby...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Ok, I don't have a very strong opinion on
> >>>> "hollo" vs "halloa". If you think they're
> >>>> sound-alikes you can modernize them. As long as
> >>>> it's in a separate commit, Alex or the reviewer
> >>>> can revisit later.
> >>>>
> >>>> Reordering parts of the text is not something we
> >>>> normally do, but of course there's always
> >>>> exceptions. Do you know if this has been done in
> >>>> later editions?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 2:15:05 AM
> >>>> UTC+2 Asher Smith wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that "hollo" and "holloa" are
> >>>> sound-alikes, too, actually. I think it's a
> >>>> posh British accent thing, so I'd argue for
> >>>> aligning them.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd also like to discuss a more significant
> >>>> editorial change. If you look on the scansof
> >>>> page 118
> >>>>

> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

> >>>>
> >>>> On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:57:23 PM
> >>>> UTC+1lukasby...@gmail.comwrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> My interpretation is that "hallo" and
> >>>> "hollo" are sound-alikes with each
> >>>> other, so they can be standardized. I
> >>>> don't think that applies to "hollo" and
> >>>> "holloa".
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Sep 24, 2023 at 2:33 PM Asher
> >>>> Smith <forlackofa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Previously,Alex has said
> >>>>

> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Yes, I'm still available for managing. I can take a look in the next few days.

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[Asher Smith]

\s\s+ only turns up newline spaces, so I still don’t know what that’s about.

Thanks, Lukas. I’ll try to get it in a position so that the comments are the only things outstanding by then.

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[Asher Smith]

Here is a thing that doesn't matter very much: "halloa" appears 4 times, "holloa" appears 3 times, and "hollo" appears 8 times. I am assuming that they are all the same word and standardising them all to "hollo" as that appears most frequently, but I'm wondering if I can actually modernise them to "hello" as that makes sense in context.

[Lukas Bystricky]

I think we agreed above (messages starting 9/24/2023) that it's ok to standardize them, but not modernize to hello as that was something Alex had objected to in the past.

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[Asher Smith]

Thanks - this is what I get for letting this lie fallow for months at a time 😬

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[Asher Smith]

OK, once those remaining comments have been answered, I hope this will be ready for review.

[Lukas Bystricky]

Sorry, I've been a bit busy lately. I'll look at those issues later today or tomorrow.

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Ok Asher, I added some comments on your GitHub repo since your questions were embedded in the code. If you have any followup questions or comments feel free to post them here. 

[Asher Smith]

I’ve addressed almost all of them; two remain:

• I’m not converting the square brackets to endnotes, but I wonder if they should be modernised into parentheses?
• I have converted the preface-2 block quote into an <ul>, but that’s added some bullet points. That doesn’t match the page scans (which I know isn’t the only thing we’re aiming for) and looks a little odd to me; should I target that with CSS to remove, or just leave as-is?

Thanks!

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[Lukas Bystricky]

1. I'd say not. Both those cases are asides by the author embedded in a quotation of someone else. It's still quite standard to use square brackets there. 

2. You can remove the bullets with CSS.

[Asher Smith]

OK, done. The only thing remaining in the lint errors is that the conversion of a block quote to a footer has lead to a: 

<footer> element followed by non-sectioning element. 

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[Lukas Bystricky]

Yeah it's a bit of a strange case in the scans. I think you add a lint ignore. An alternative would be to wrap everything up the end of the footer in a blockquote or a div, but I'm not sure that's very semantically meaningful. 

[Asher Smith]

OK, in that case I think it's over to you, Emma, for review.

[Emma Sweeney]

Great work! I filed some issues in your repository.

Emma

[Asher Smith]

Addressed; one outstanding question about figure headings. Thanks for the review!

[Emma Sweeney]

I've reviewed again and filed some more issues.

Emma

[Emma Sweeney]

Alex, this is ready for you.

Emma

[Asher Smith]

Sorry to make such a late change - I was rereading the early messages in the thread to ensure I hadn't missed anything and realised that I had. I've added Te Rāngikaheke as a contributor to the content.opf and the colophon, cleaned and linted, and I think it's now done (coming on for four years after I first attempted to start it).

[Alex Cabal]

This cover art is not in the database, can you add it with PD proof so I
can review it?

>> * I’m not converting the square

>> brackets to endnotes, but I wonder
>> if they should be modernised into
>> parentheses?

>> * I have converted the preface-2

>>>> (https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology <https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology>)? I have

>>>>  <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up><https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>>> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

>>>>  <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up><https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>>>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>>>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

>>>>  <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>>>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>>> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

>>>>  visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com><http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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[Alex Cabal]

In the short description you mention "Te Awara" but I don't know what
that is. Can you rewrite the short description so that it's obvious
what's being referred to without using proper names?

On 9/9/24 2:25 PM, Asher Smith wrote:

>> * I’m not converting the square

>> brackets to endnotes, but I wonder
>> if they should be modernised into
>> parentheses?

>> * I have converted the preface-2

>>>> (https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology <https://github.com/ACBSmith/george-grey_polynesian-mythology>)? I have

>>>>  <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up><https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>>> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

>>>>  <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up><https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>>>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>>>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

>>>>  <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>>>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>>> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

>>>>  visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com><http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

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[Asher Smith]

Short description has been rewritten and artwork submitted to the database. As an aside, the artwork database doesn't recognise "ā" as a letter.

[Alex Cabal]

I don't see it in the database. Are you sure you submitted it?

>  <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>><https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/polynesianmythol00grey_1/page/92/mode/2up>>>> takes the decision to split it into it's own chapter under the title Whakatau and Hine-i-te-iwaiwa with a footnote explaining that it wasn’t originally so.

>  <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>><https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up> <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.219427/page/n139/mode/2up>>>>, you can see that there's an alternative version of a myth set in smaller text. The issue is that the myth that this is an alternative version of is the previous chapter; I'd like to move it back to the end of the previous chapter where I think it makes more sense. For more context, seethis wikipedia page <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ACB_Smith/sandbox/Polynesian_Mythology_(book)>>>>I'm writing about the book as I go - this is about the legends of Tūwhakararo and Rātā. It is effectively a different version of the tale of Tūwhakararo, and it's not entirely clear what it's doing where it is.

>  <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/v_Ftc9Tz4cA/m/13zfkNGxBAAJ>>>>that "hallo" and "hollo" should not be modernised to "hello" as they are not sound-alike substitutions, buthe has also said <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>><https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ> <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ <https://groups.google.com/g/standardebooks/c/ZGJWH443VQw/m/YON-c3RVBgAJ>>>> that where multiple versions exist in the same text, they should be standardised. I have a few instances of "hollo" and "holloa" in this text, and I'm wondering if they should be changed, and if so in what direction. Any thoughts here?

>  visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com>><http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55388cef-1a94-424b-8f07-5df9e5c7e584n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>>.

> >>>> >
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> >>>> >
> >>>>

>  visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com>><http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com> <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cd61f562-f5fe-446a-a4e8-aacecf807ca5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>>.

> >>>> >
> >>>>   >>>
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >>
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> --
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> You
> >>>> received
> >>>> this
> >>>> message
> >>>> because
> >>>> you are
> >>>> subscribed
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> to
> >>>> a topic
> >>>> in the
> >>>> Google
> >>>> Groups
> >>>> "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> To
> >>>> unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >>
> >>>> >
> >>>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>><https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>><https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>>>.

> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> To
> >>>> unsubscribe from this group and all its topics,
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >>
> >>>> send an
> >>>> email
> >>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >> To
> >>>> view
> >>>> this
> >>>> discussion on the web visit
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >>
> >>>> >
> >>>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/e8233b78-0e42-44ce-a625-a5b9f83ab990n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>>.

> >>>> >          >
> >>>> >
> >>>>   > --
> >>>> >
> >>>>   > You
> >>>> received
> >>>> this
> >>>> message
> >>>> because
> >>>> you are
> >>>> subscribed to the
> >>>> >
> >>>>  Google
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >
> >>>> Groups
> >>>> "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >>>> >
> >>>>   > To
> >>>> unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> >>>> >
> >>>>  it, send
> >>>> >
> >>>>   > an
> >>>> email
> >>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com
> >>>> >
> >>>>   >
> >>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> >>>> >
> >>>>   > To
> >>>> view
> >>>> this
> >>>> discussion on the web visit
> >>>> >          >
> >>>> >
> >>>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/d6d25e92-7e3b-458e-a87a-d3530249e168n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>>.

> >>>> >
> >>>> > --
> >>>> > You
> >>>> received
> >>>> this
> >>>> message
> >>>> because
> >>>> you are
> >>>> subscribed to the Google
> >>>> > Groups
> >>>> "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >>>> > To
> >>>> unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> >>>> > an
> >>>> email
> >>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com
> >>>> >
> >>>> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> >>>> > To
> >>>> view
> >>>> this
> >>>> discussion on the web visit
> >>>>

> >https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com>><https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/597d00d0-209e-40d7-9a21-42c81deb11e7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.

> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You
> >>>> received
> >>>> this
> >>>> message
> >>>> because
> >>>> you are
> >>>> subscribed to the Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >>>> To
> >>>> unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To view
> >>>> this
> >>>> discussion on the web

> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cdb78212-9b8d-4bc8-8576-62f587b011b5%40standardebooks.org <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cdb78212-9b8d-4bc8-8576-62f587b011b5%40standardebooks.org> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cdb78212-9b8d-4bc8-8576-62f587b011b5%40standardebooks.org <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/cdb78212-9b8d-4bc8-8576-62f587b011b5%40standardebooks.org>>.

> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received
> >>>> this message
> >>>> because you
> >>>> are
> >>>> subscribed
> >>>> to a topic
> >>>> in the
> >>>> Google
> >>>> Groups
> >>>> "Standard
> >>>> Ebooks" group.
> >>>> To
> >>>> unsubscribe
> >>>> from this
> >>>> topic,
> >>>>

> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <http://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>.

> >>>>
> >>>> To
> >>>> unsubscribe
> >>>> from this
> >>>> group and
> >>>> all its
> >>>> topics, send
> >>>> an email
> >>>> tostandardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>> To view this
> >>>> discussion
> >>>> on the web
> >>>>

> visithttps://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UezUYSKNvJbsBo1dJGG6su1onRtV8-7g6xLEQuh89AZnQ%40mail.gmail.com <http://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UezUYSKNvJbsBo1dJGG6su1onRtV8-7g6xLEQuh89AZnQ%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UezUYSKNvJbsBo1dJGG6su1onRtV8-7g6xLEQuh89AZnQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UezUYSKNvJbsBo1dJGG6su1onRtV8-7g6xLEQuh89AZnQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this
> >>> message because
> >>> you are
> >>> subscribed to the
> >>> Google Groups
> >>> "Standard Ebooks"
> >>> group.
> >>> To unsubscribe
> >>> from this group
> >>> and stop
> >>> receiving emails
> >>> from it, send an
> >>> email to
> >>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this
> >>> discussion on the
> >>> web visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0be80a0b-b4e2-4de2-baee-0ab4449b5183n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0be80a0b-b4e2-4de2-baee-0ab4449b5183n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0be80a0b-b4e2-4de2-baee-0ab4449b5183n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0be80a0b-b4e2-4de2-baee-0ab4449b5183n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this
> >>> message because you
> >>> are subscribed to a
> >>> topic in the Google
> >>> Groups "Standard
> >>> Ebooks" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from
> >>> this topic, visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>.

> >>> To unsubscribe from
> >>> this group and all
> >>> its topics, send an
> >>> email to
> >>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>
> >>> To view this
> >>> discussion on the web
> >>> visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UeYNQuzC3nk7gm50aMabnntf5KHoLZMbP6o4LuEDfcj0w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UeYNQuzC3nk7gm50aMabnntf5KHoLZMbP6o4LuEDfcj0w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UeYNQuzC3nk7gm50aMabnntf5KHoLZMbP6o4LuEDfcj0w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAEAH2UeYNQuzC3nk7gm50aMabnntf5KHoLZMbP6o4LuEDfcj0w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message
> >>> because you are subscribed to
> >>> the Google Groups "Standard
> >>> Ebooks" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this
> >>> group and stop receiving
> >>> emails from it, send an email
> >>> to
> >>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>>
> >>> To view this discussion on
> >>> the web visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f99fbd84-29c2-4797-b4e2-9a55df2c2690n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f99fbd84-29c2-4797-b4e2-9a55df2c2690n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f99fbd84-29c2-4797-b4e2-9a55df2c2690n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/f99fbd84-29c2-4797-b4e2-9a55df2c2690n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> You received this message because you
> >>> are subscribed to a topic in the
> >>> Google Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>.

> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and
> >>> all its topics, send an email to
> >>> standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >>> To view this discussion on the web
> >>> visit
> >>>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a65d141a-d3ef-44a7-8a6e-b36c0d5ce7ddn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a65d141a-d3ef-44a7-8a6e-b36c0d5ce7ddn%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a65d141a-d3ef-44a7-8a6e-b36c0d5ce7ddn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a65d141a-d3ef-44a7-8a6e-b36c0d5ce7ddn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are
> >> subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups
> >> "Standard Ebooks" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> >>

> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/standardebooks/rhEHFsRY1Fs/unsubscribe>>.

> >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its
> >> topics, send an email to
> >> standardebook...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/1750aad5-b970-4905-b5e9-e11e3d8fa4d8n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/1750aad5-b970-4905-b5e9-e11e3d8fa4d8n%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/1750aad5-b970-4905-b5e9-e11e3d8fa4d8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/1750aad5-b970-4905-b5e9-e11e3d8fa4d8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send
> > an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a5167c28-2368-435f-b29a-fa254fd77e8en%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a5167c28-2368-435f-b29a-fa254fd77e8en%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a5167c28-2368-435f-b29a-fa254fd77e8en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/a5167c28-2368-435f-b29a-fa254fd77e8en%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Standard Ebooks" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/efdbb0ce-d8ca-4bcb-b2c6-b3b87f14f018n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/efdbb0ce-d8ca-4bcb-b2c6-b3b87f14f018n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Asher Smith]

https://standardebooks.org/artworks/gottfried-lindauer/tawhiao-matutaera-potatau-te-wherowhero

It might not match a search query because of the macron issue? In the colophon, the painting title is Tāwhiao Matutaera Pōtatau Te Wherowhero.

[Asher Smith]

Thank you to everybody who has helped in this production, especially Lukas and Emma for their thoughtful answers and Alex for his patience. It's been a long road getting here; producing this book is what first got me interested in SE years ago, and I'm glad that I have been finally able to do it what I hope is the justice it deserves.