We're not arguing that point, rather we want to discuss if the rule can
be refined in some way to assist producers who don't know what is or
isn't unfamiliar with readers.
On 1/10/22 5:48 PM, David Grigg wrote:
> Quote: "Italics are used for isolated words and phrases from another
> language, /especially/ if they are not listed in a standard
> English-language dictionary like Merriam-Webster's Collegiate (see 7.1)
> or /are likely to be unfamiliar to readers/." (my emphases).
>
> Says it all, really.
>
> But I'm happy to go with whatever the final consensus is.
> On 11 Jan 2022, 10:10 AM +1100, B Keith <
bois...@gmail.com>, wrote:
>> I really think we are getting a bit too off course. I think the M-W
>> rule is fine. And if we want to refine it then specify a print
>> edition of M-W.
>>
>> Merriam Webster and every other dictionary has a board and they
>> decided what words to include the logic will be idiosyncratic to the
>> board. In olden day that might mean years between editions. These days
>> they work hard to keep up online. I have a print copy of the OED
>> which was my “bible” but the last edition was printed 1989—I doubt
>> they will ever go ahead with the proposed 3rd edition… same thing with
>> the M-W which I believe was 2004 as Merriam-Webster's Collegiate
>> Dictionary.
>>
>> Watch Victoria Coren Mitchell’s Balderdash and Piffle if you wan to
>> see a light-hearted take on how meanings and words are included in a
>> dictionary (
https://youtu.be/oYFLDjmyJ-g <
https://youtu.be/oYFLDjmyJ-g>)
>>
>> Anyway this is the Chicago entry. I think it's clear enough and
>> Standard is already doing pretty good…the rest is always going to be
>> opinion:
>>
>> /
>> /
>> /Chicago/ 11.3
>>
>> *General Principles *
>> /Words and Phrases from Other Languages /
>>
>> Non-English words and phrases in an English context. Italics are
>> used for isolated words and phrases from another language,
>> especially if they are not listed in a standard English-language
>> dictionary like Merriam-Webster's Collegiate (see 7.1) or are
>> likely to be unfamiliar to readers (see also 7.54). (For proper
>> nouns, see 11.4.) If such a word or phrase becomes familiar
>> through repeated use throughout a work, it need be italicized only
>> on its first occurrence. If it appears only rarely, however,
>> italics may be retained.
>>
>> Unless the term appears in a standard English-language dictionary
>> and is being used as such, observe the capitalization conventions
>> of the original language. In the following examples, the German
>> word for computer (which is the same as the English word) is
>> capitalized because it is a noun, and the French adjective
>> franfaise is lowercase even though it would be capitalized in
>> English (as "French"). See also 11.18.
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 10, 2022, at 3:31 PM, Vince <
vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>>> <mailto:
vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> M-W tells us what the language is (in 99.99% cases), so there’s
>>> nothing to be setup. Again, the only things under discussion are
>>> foreign words/phrases that are in M-W.
>>> What you showed is the definition of “anecdotal,” which is the
>>> opposite of objective, and confusing the two leads to a whole mess of
>>> problems (see vaccination status in the US). :) It’s anecdotal
>>> because we know nothing about how M-W decides on examples and whether
>>> to include them. (Maybe they use ngrams to decide! That would be both
>>> ironic and slightly scary.)
>>>
>>> But you and I can just agree to disagree on this one and move on.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 10, 2022, at 4:15 PM, Lukas Bystricky
>>> send an email
tostandardeboo...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:
standardebook...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> <
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/ACB2B748-6BE4-41A5-B50F-B34869B0C9DC%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>
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