[Next project] Riceyman Steps
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John Rambow
Apr 29, 2022, 7:52:09 AM4/29/22
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Hi there,
I'd like to do another Bennett, "Riceyman Steps," about miserly booksellers.
Here's the PG transcription:
Transcription:
https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/58666
And here are scans:
https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/38/mode/2up
Alex Cabal
Apr 29, 2022, 11:19:15 AM4/29/22
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OK! Looks like the big work here will be converting book names from
quotes to italics.
> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/38/mode/2up>
>
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quotes to italics.
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John Rambow
May 6, 2022, 11:13:17 AM5/6/22
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John Rambow
May 19, 2022, 5:12:18 PM5/19/22
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I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter. In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I should remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway there already . . .
Vince
May 19, 2022, 5:23:04 PM5/19/22
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It definitely should be a blockquote, but since it’s being read out loud (thus making it dialogue), the quotes stay.
(I would be tempted to remove the inner single quotes, but I suspect Alex would disagree.)
On May 19, 2022, at 4:12 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter. In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I should remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway there already . . .
<image.png>
John Rambow
May 23, 2022, 5:55:12 PM5/23/22
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Keeping both sets of quotes in a blockquote/extract would make for three levels of quotation, though. But it's just two.
I agree with you-- one set of quotes seems like enough here, if we do want to keep a set inside the blockquote to make it crystal-clear that it's still part of the dialogue.
--
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Vince
May 23, 2022, 6:14:26 PM5/23/22
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The blockquote is not a level of quotation with respect to quotemarks—a blockquote can be a lot of things other than spoken dialog. This is why I like to differentiate between a letter read out loud (with quotes) and one that isn’t (without quotes).
The inner quotes are an editorial decision—a letter is being read, so the outer quotes are for the person speaking, and the inner quotes are for the person who wrote the letter. While I consider the inner quotes unnecessary, and in most cases other (book) editors agree since they are rarely used, there are isolated cases like this where we see the inner quotes. I don’t know Alex’s position on them, as I don’t remember it coming up here before.
Alex Cabal
May 24, 2022, 12:53:02 PM5/24/22
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I think it's fine - because it's a matter of style and varies across
books we generally don't adjust quotation marks in blockquotes.
On 5/23/22 5:14 PM, Vince wrote:
> The blockquote is not a level of quotation with respect to quotemarks—a
> blockquote can be a lot of things other than spoken dialog. This is why
> I like to differentiate between a letter read out loud (with quotes) and
> one that isn’t (without quotes).
>
> The inner quotes are an editorial decision—a letter is being read, so
> the outer quotes are for the person speaking, and the inner quotes are
> for the person who wrote the letter. While /I /consider the inner quotes
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/0E4F1AFB-A72E-458F-845B-BC1781D9ADAE%40letterboxes.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
books we generally don't adjust quotation marks in blockquotes.
On 5/23/22 5:14 PM, Vince wrote:
> The blockquote is not a level of quotation with respect to quotemarks—a
> blockquote can be a lot of things other than spoken dialog. This is why
> I like to differentiate between a letter read out loud (with quotes) and
> one that isn’t (without quotes).
>
> The inner quotes are an editorial decision—a letter is being read, so
> the outer quotes are for the person speaking, and the inner quotes are
> unnecessary, and in most cases other (book) editors agree since they are
> rarely used, there are isolated cases like this where we see the inner
> quotes. I don’t know Alex’s position on them, as I don’t remember it
> coming up here before.
>
>
>> On May 23, 2022, at 4:54 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
> rarely used, there are isolated cases like this where we see the inner
> quotes. I don’t know Alex’s position on them, as I don’t remember it
> coming up here before.
>
>
>> On May 23, 2022, at 4:54 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Keeping both sets of quotes in a blockquote/extract would make for
>> three levels of quotation, though. But it's just two.
>>
>> I agree with you-- one set of quotes seems like enough here, if we do
>> want to keep a set inside the blockquote to make it crystal-clear that
>> it's still part of the dialogue.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 5:23 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>
>> It definitely should be a blockquote, but since it’s being read
>> out loud (thus making it dialogue), the quotes stay.
>>
>> (I would be tempted to remove the inner single quotes, but I
>> suspect Alex would disagree.)
>>
>>> On May 19, 2022, at 4:12 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>>
>> Keeping both sets of quotes in a blockquote/extract would make for
>> three levels of quotation, though. But it's just two.
>>
>> I agree with you-- one set of quotes seems like enough here, if we do
>> want to keep a set inside the blockquote to make it crystal-clear that
>> it's still part of the dialogue.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 5:23 PM Vince <vr_se...@letterboxes.org
>> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>> wrote:
>>
>> It definitely should be a blockquote, but since it’s being read
>> out loud (thus making it dialogue), the quotes stay.
>>
>> (I would be tempted to remove the inner single quotes, but I
>> suspect Alex would disagree.)
>>
>>> On May 19, 2022, at 4:12 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter.
>>> In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one
>>> character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I should
>>> remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway
>>> there already . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up
>>>
>>> I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter.
>>> In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one
>>> character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I should
>>> remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway
>>> there already . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up
>>> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up>
>>>
>>> <image.png>
>
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>>> <image.png>
>
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John Rambow
May 29, 2022, 9:35:16 AM5/29/22
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OK, I left alone those quotes inside the blockquotes.
Here's a potential cover using "Suspense," by Walter Sickert. It's intended to show the bookseller's servant, who's a major character in the book.
PD proof: (page 23)
The scan had to be enlarged by about 10% to reach a height of 2100 pixels. It looks OK, IMHO, but I wanted to mention.
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Alex Cabal
May 29, 2022, 10:33:21 PM5/29/22
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Looks good, thanks!
On 5/29/22 8:35 AM, John Rambow wrote:
> OK, I left alone those quotes inside the blockquotes.
>
> Here's a potential cover using "Suspense," by Walter Sickert
> <https://www.nmni.com/collections/art/paintings/belumu490>. It's
> > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/55794b78-8b57-a6ee-1e77-ccb7316399df%40standardebooks.org>.
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On 5/29/22 8:35 AM, John Rambow wrote:
> OK, I left alone those quotes inside the blockquotes.
>
> Here's a potential cover using "Suspense," by Walter Sickert
> intended to show the bookseller's servant, who's a major character in
> the book.
>
> PD proof: (page 23)
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_International_Studio/w8MzAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=suspense%20sickert
> <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_International_Studio/w8MzAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=suspense%20sickert>
>
> The scan had to be enlarged by about 10% to reach a height of 2100
> pixels. It looks OK, IMHO, but I wanted to mention.
>
>
>
> the book.
>
> PD proof: (page 23)
>
> https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_International_Studio/w8MzAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=suspense%20sickert
> <https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_International_Studio/w8MzAQAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=suspense%20sickert>
>
> The scan had to be enlarged by about 10% to reach a height of 2100
> pixels. It looks OK, IMHO, but I wanted to mention.
>
>
>
> >> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Keeping both sets of quotes in a blockquote/extract would make for
> >> three levels of quotation, though. But it's just two.
> >>
> >> I agree with you-- one set of quotes seems like enough here, if
> we do
> >> want to keep a set inside the blockquote to make it
> crystal-clear that
> >> it's still part of the dialogue.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 5:23 PM Vince
> <vr_se...@letterboxes.org <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>
> >> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org
> >>
> >> Keeping both sets of quotes in a blockquote/extract would make for
> >> three levels of quotation, though. But it's just two.
> >>
> >> I agree with you-- one set of quotes seems like enough here, if
> we do
> >> want to keep a set inside the blockquote to make it
> crystal-clear that
> >> it's still part of the dialogue.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 19, 2022 at 5:23 PM Vince
> <vr_se...@letterboxes.org <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>
> <mailto:vr_se...@letterboxes.org>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> It definitely should be a blockquote, but since it’s being read
> >> out loud (thus making it dialogue), the quotes stay.
> >>
> >> (I would be tempted to remove the inner single quotes, but I
> >> suspect Alex would disagree.)
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2022, at 4:12 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>
> >>
> >> It definitely should be a blockquote, but since it’s being read
> >> out loud (thus making it dialogue), the quotes stay.
> >>
> >> (I would be tempted to remove the inner single quotes, but I
> >> suspect Alex would disagree.)
> >>
> >>> On May 19, 2022, at 4:12 PM, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>
> >>> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter.
> >>> In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one
> >>> character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I
> should
> >>> remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway
> >>> there already . . .
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up
> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up>
> >>>
> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up>>
> >>>
> >>> <image.png>
> >
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> >>>
> >>> I'm moving along with this, and have a question about a letter.
> >>> In the scans, it's set as dialogue, with quotes, since one
> >>> character is reading the letter to another. I'm assuming I
> should
> >>> remove quotes and do it as a blockquote, right? It's halfway
> >>> there already . . .
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up
> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up>
> >>>
> <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up <https://archive.org/details/riceymansteps0000unse/page/248/mode/2up>>
> >>>
> >>> <image.png>
> >
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John Rambow
May 31, 2022, 10:22:53 AM5/31/22
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Alex Cabal
May 31, 2022, 12:41:57 PM5/31/22
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Robin, do you have time to review this?
> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org
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Robin Whittleton
May 31, 2022, 1:55:22 PM5/31/22
to Standard Ebooks
Sure.
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Robin Whittleton
May 31, 2022, 4:26:19 PM5/31/22
to Standard Ebooks
Great production, well done. I’ve logged a few simple issues to Github, but nothing non-trivial.
One thing that’s worth querying: there’s quite a lot of editorial spelling changes after the default modernize-spelling. I don’t disagree with any of them particularly, but how are you deciding on these?
-Robin
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAFu_-g8UCqygwPT0k9CQUqGN_C%2BBLN-epx%2BFKHekKDR%2BtN5jiw%40mail.gmail.com.
John Rambow
Jun 1, 2022, 5:32:48 PM6/1/22
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Super, thanks for your help, Robin.
For the Chamber of Horrors sign, I was a little unsure about changing it to <q>. It seemed as if it should be treated like the want ad text, in that they are both in quotes and in italics, but not thoughts. So I left the sign for <i> for now, but obvs. can easily fix it.
As far as the editorial spelling changes go, I concentrated on words that appeared up a lot in the book, and esp. those that actually have entries in Merriam-Webster, like drawing room and front door and backyard.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/EB430F24-B0D8-4CA6-B905-48CE8F29843B%40reala.net.
Robin Whittleton
Jun 2, 2022, 1:26:06 PM6/2/22
to Standard Ebooks
OK! Over to you then Alex.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAFu_-g-WgSZXNK4sfbb-ufd5N%3D%3DiaRMP9jVnwNU01updtz55FQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Alex Cabal
Jun 2, 2022, 3:40:27 PM6/2/22
to standar...@googlegroups.com
Great work John, everything looks good. I've gone ahead and released it,
thanks!
On 6/2/22 12:26 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> OK! Over to you then Alex.
>
>> On 1 Jun 2022, at 23:32, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>>> > <mailto:al...@standardebooks.org
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>.
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/6ec198f2-7668-bfef-8ec8-0571641ff8f3%40standardebooks.org>.
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAFu_-g8UCqygwPT0k9CQUqGN_C%2BBLN-epx%2BFKHekKDR%2BtN5jiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/EB430F24-B0D8-4CA6-B905-48CE8F29843B%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/CAFu_-g-WgSZXNK4sfbb-ufd5N%3D%3DiaRMP9jVnwNU01updtz55FQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/standardebooks/106CA09F-5346-4BC5-8598-41F505977172%40reala.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
thanks!
On 6/2/22 12:26 PM, Robin Whittleton wrote:
> OK! Over to you then Alex.
>
>> On 1 Jun 2022, at 23:32, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:ram...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Super, thanks for your help, Robin.
>>
>> For the Chamber of Horrors sign, I was a little unsure about changing
>> it to <q>. It seemed as if it should be treated like the want ad text,
>> in that they are both in quotes and in italics, but not thoughts. So I
>> left the sign for <i> for now, but obvs. can easily fix it.
>>
>> As far as the editorial spelling changes go, I concentrated on words
>> that appeared up a lot in the book, and esp. those that actually have
>> entries in Merriam-Webster, like drawing room and front door and backyard.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 4:26 PM Robin Whittleton <ro...@reala.net
>> <mailto:ro...@reala.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Great production, well done. I’ve logged a few simple issues to
>> Github, but nothing non-trivial.
>>
>> One thing that’s worth querying: there’s quite a lot of editorial
>> spelling changes after the default modernize-spelling. I don’t
>> disagree with any of them particularly, but how are you deciding
>> on these?
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>>> On 31 May 2022, at 16:22, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>>
>> Super, thanks for your help, Robin.
>>
>> For the Chamber of Horrors sign, I was a little unsure about changing
>> it to <q>. It seemed as if it should be treated like the want ad text,
>> in that they are both in quotes and in italics, but not thoughts. So I
>> left the sign for <i> for now, but obvs. can easily fix it.
>>
>> As far as the editorial spelling changes go, I concentrated on words
>> that appeared up a lot in the book, and esp. those that actually have
>> entries in Merriam-Webster, like drawing room and front door and backyard.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 4:26 PM Robin Whittleton <ro...@reala.net
>> <mailto:ro...@reala.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Great production, well done. I’ve logged a few simple issues to
>> Github, but nothing non-trivial.
>>
>> One thing that’s worth querying: there’s quite a lot of editorial
>> spelling changes after the default modernize-spelling. I don’t
>> disagree with any of them particularly, but how are you deciding
>> on these?
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>>> On 31 May 2022, at 16:22, John Rambow <ram...@gmail.com
>>> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>>.
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%252Buns...@googlegroups.com>>
>>> > > <mailto:standardebook...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>
>>> > <mailto:standardebooks%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com
>>> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> > >
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