SQLLine project governance
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Julian Hyde
Oct 22, 2021, 1:18:47 PM10/22/21
to sqlline-dev
An announcement and a question.
I have asked Sergey Nuyanzin to become PMC chair of SQLLine and he has
accepted. Sergey has been doing excellent work on SQLLine for several
years, including fixing a majority of the bugs, and reviewing others'
contributions. It is high time we recognized his contributions to the
project. Congratulations!
I have been running SQLLine as a "single maintainer" project and due
to Sergey's involvement this model is (thankfully) no longer
appropriate. I am not stepping down - I will continue to be actively
involved, and the project will work as a partnership.
How do I see the future of SQLLine?
I would love to move to an Apache-style governance model, with a PMC
of 3 or more active contributors, all of them with an equal vote, and
a community of many other contributors. But right now, with only two
regular contributors, that model is not possible.
One possibility is to move the project into its own GitHub project
(say SQLLineOrg), so that my name doesn't appear in the URL. That will
counter the perception that this is my project. (For the record, I did
not create SQLLine; I just forked it from its original location [1]
and started making releases when the original contributors drifted
away. As far as I can tell, the original contributors approve of what
I have been doing with the project.)
We could enter Apache as an incubator project, with a goal of being a
top-level project. I don't think this will succeed, because Apache
requires 3 active members to make a PMC. (See above.)
Another possibility is to join Apache as a sub-project. In general
Apache doesn't like sub-projects, but the DB project [2] is already
structured into sub-projects in this way, and as a popular Java-based
tool for interacting with databases, SQLLine seems to me to be a very
good fit.
Congratulations again to Sergey, and I encourage everyone to share
their thoughts on SQLLine's future.
Julian
[1] http://sqlline.sourceforge.net
[2] https://db.apache.org
I have asked Sergey Nuyanzin to become PMC chair of SQLLine and he has
accepted. Sergey has been doing excellent work on SQLLine for several
years, including fixing a majority of the bugs, and reviewing others'
contributions. It is high time we recognized his contributions to the
project. Congratulations!
I have been running SQLLine as a "single maintainer" project and due
to Sergey's involvement this model is (thankfully) no longer
appropriate. I am not stepping down - I will continue to be actively
involved, and the project will work as a partnership.
How do I see the future of SQLLine?
I would love to move to an Apache-style governance model, with a PMC
of 3 or more active contributors, all of them with an equal vote, and
a community of many other contributors. But right now, with only two
regular contributors, that model is not possible.
One possibility is to move the project into its own GitHub project
(say SQLLineOrg), so that my name doesn't appear in the URL. That will
counter the perception that this is my project. (For the record, I did
not create SQLLine; I just forked it from its original location [1]
and started making releases when the original contributors drifted
away. As far as I can tell, the original contributors approve of what
I have been doing with the project.)
We could enter Apache as an incubator project, with a goal of being a
top-level project. I don't think this will succeed, because Apache
requires 3 active members to make a PMC. (See above.)
Another possibility is to join Apache as a sub-project. In general
Apache doesn't like sub-projects, but the DB project [2] is already
structured into sub-projects in this way, and as a popular Java-based
tool for interacting with databases, SQLLine seems to me to be a very
good fit.
Congratulations again to Sergey, and I encourage everyone to share
their thoughts on SQLLine's future.
Julian
[1] http://sqlline.sourceforge.net
[2] https://db.apache.org
Sergey Nuyanzin
Oct 28, 2021, 5:41:14 AM10/28/21
to Julian Hyde, sqlline-dev
Thank you very much Julian.
I'm proud of being involved in this project.
I think it worth also mentioning that you have done excellent work to keep SQLLine growing.
And that's great that you are not stepping away from the project.
From one side I completely agree that it would be great to go to the Apache-style governance model.
As you have also mentioned, currently we are in a lack of active contributors.
I like your suggestion to have a try with DB project.
And, if for whatever reason we fail here, we can move to its own GitHub project.
I'm proud of being involved in this project.
I think it worth also mentioning that you have done excellent work to keep SQLLine growing.
And that's great that you are not stepping away from the project.
From one side I completely agree that it would be great to go to the Apache-style governance model.
As you have also mentioned, currently we are in a lack of active contributors.
I like your suggestion to have a try with DB project.
And, if for whatever reason we fail here, we can move to its own GitHub project.
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Best regards,
Sergey
Sergey
Julian Hyde
Oct 28, 2021, 9:28:06 PM10/28/21
to Sergey Nuyanzin, sqlline-dev
OK, I'll start a conversation with the Apache DB project.
Anyone who wants to join or follow the discussion should subscribe to
gen...@db.apache.org [1]
Julian
[1] https://db.apache.org/mail.html
Anyone who wants to join or follow the discussion should subscribe to
gen...@db.apache.org [1]
Julian
[1] https://db.apache.org/mail.html
Jacques Nadeau
Oct 28, 2021, 9:39:01 PM10/28/21
to Julian Hyde, Sergey Nuyanzin, sqlline-dev
I was going to ask if you have any particular perspective to why so few maintainers?
I'll definitely admit that in the past it didn't feel like a community being under a person's name on github. That could be just me.
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Julian Hyde
Oct 28, 2021, 9:59:58 PM10/28/21
to sqlline-dev
There are quite a few contributors (11 in the last 2 years). But very few make more than one or two contributions, or stick around to help with the admin tasks.
It’s a mature project, not much exciting stuff to be done, and it takes altruism to give up your evenings/weekends working on something your boss didn’t ask you to work on.
Julian
Julian Hyde
Oct 28, 2021, 11:51:51 PM10/28/21
to sqlline-dev
James Turton
Oct 30, 2021, 4:49:18 AM10/30/21
to sqlline-dev
+1 for an Apache DB subproject and thank you Julian and Sergey for all
of your contributions to this tool.
Charles Givre
Oct 30, 2021, 7:25:21 PM10/30/21
to sqlline-dev
+1 (non binding) from me as well.
Charles Givre
Founder, CEO DataDistillr
Email:
Phone:
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Julian Hyde
Nov 11, 2021, 6:37:50 PM11/11/21
to sqlline-dev
My post to gen...@db.apache.org didn't generate the interest that I'd hoped for. Rick Hillegas (who maintains Apache Derby) was friendly and enthusiastic, but otherwise pretty much crickets. A couple of people (one of whom is an Apache board member) pointed me to Apache processes. No reply from the PMC chair.
So, I don't think that SQLLine as a sub-project of DB is going to happen.
Nor am I enthusiastic about going through Apache's Incubation process if there isn't a willing sponsor/champion for us.
What options should we look at next?
Julian
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Charles Givre
Nov 11, 2021, 11:25:33 PM11/11/21
to Julian Hyde, sqlline-dev
Hi Julian,
I am the Drill PMC and while I don’t know if Drill is the right place for SQLLine as a subproject, but I’ll offer it up as an option.
Best,
— C
| Charles Givre • Founder, CEO DataDistillr |
| cha...@datadistillr.com • 443-762-3286 linkedIn | github Schedule a meeting: 30 min |.60 min |
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Sergey Nuyanzin
Nov 12, 2021, 4:28:24 PM11/12/21
to Charles Givre, Julian Hyde, sqlline-dev
Hi Julian,
thanks for what you are doing in this direction.
Yes, probably db.apache.org is not an option...
Well, the second option is to move forward to its own GitHub project.
Something like SqlLineShell (same as twitter account), SQLLineOrg or similar
Charles,
Thank you very much for your offer.
The doubts I have here is that.
From one side SQLLine is a database independent app from the other
being a part of Drill it could invoke some wrong associations that it works only with Drill.
Also as far as I remember the idea was to be as a subproject at db.apache.org with its own release cycle
I don't know how it is happening in Drill however I assume there could be some limitations
thanks for what you are doing in this direction.
Yes, probably db.apache.org is not an option...
Well, the second option is to move forward to its own GitHub project.
Something like SqlLineShell (same as twitter account), SQLLineOrg or similar
Charles,
Thank you very much for your offer.
The doubts I have here is that.
From one side SQLLine is a database independent app from the other
being a part of Drill it could invoke some wrong associations that it works only with Drill.
Also as far as I remember the idea was to be as a subproject at db.apache.org with its own release cycle
I don't know how it is happening in Drill however I assume there could be some limitations
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sqlline-dev/7FD8C253-3043-4909-BFE6-6FE2448243BB%40datadistillr.com.
--
Best regards,
Sergey
Sergey
Kenneth Knowles
Nov 15, 2021, 4:50:07 PM11/15/21
to sqlline-dev
I may be wildly off base, and likely forgetting a thread, but was Calcite considered? (feel free to be blunt as you like in response, since I am really just commenting from the peanut gallery)
Kenn
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Julian Hyde
Nov 15, 2021, 5:54:44 PM11/15/21
to sqlline-dev
Moving to Calcite hasn't been explicitly considered in public discussions, but I've certainly considered it in private. I don't think it's ideal, because SQLLine needs to be, and to be perceived to be, independent of any particular database.
A few years ago I publicly chewed out the Hive folks for forking SQLLine into Hive and calling it Beeline [1]. I don't want to make the same mistake and "fork SQLLine into Calcite".
Applying Apache's "community over code" principle, I don't think SQLLine belongs in Calcite because I don't think that SQLLine's community should be a subset of Calcite's community.
Julian
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Kenneth Knowles
Nov 15, 2021, 6:25:15 PM11/15/21
to Julian Hyde, sqlline-dev
Makes sense!
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