Very Slow Laptop

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Tilly

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May 5, 2020, 5:58:15 AM5/5/20
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Dear All,
Any suggestions appreciated. My son has a MacBook Pro (about 3 years old) and is using it for Googlehangouts for college work. Today it has taken about 25 minutes for him to get on to the class he is supposed to be in. I hadn't realised how ridiculously slow his laptop is - I can't see any particular reason for it. Are there some ways to speed it up? I seem to remember in the old days we had to 'Zap the Pram' - is that still something we should try? And how would we do it? Sorry if all this is pretty basic but I thought I'd reach out to you guys as I know someone will know what to do.
thanks
Tilly

Stephen Watson

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May 5, 2020, 7:24:44 AM5/5/20
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Hi Tilly,

The first thing I’d check is the amount of free space on the disk/SSD - computers need free space to manage their memory and can slow down dramatically if you’re down to less than 10GB (?).

Also, run Activity Monitor (Applications > Utilities) and see if there is anything using a lot of memory or CPU - you can sort by these columns to make them appear at the top.

Easy start points before the tech heavyweights weigh in! 😉 

Stephen

You meet your destiny on the road you take to avoid it. ~ Carl Jung

On 5 May 2020, at 10:58, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:


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John Patrick

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May 5, 2020, 7:25:53 AM5/5/20
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Hi Tilly,

Few questions I would normally ask;

1. Is it HHD (Hard Disk) or SSD (Solid State Disk)?
- I've got a 2013 MBP with an SSD and 16GB Ram and it's still lightning fast

2. How full is the hard disk?
- Often the closer to full a hard drive gets the slower it is, due to
how it allocates new things it saves and have it prevents ssd having
the same memory over used.
- For non MacOS I run SpinRite which is a HHD health check and
recovery tool and can often spring life back into a hard disk.

3. Have you tried another browser like Firefox or Chrome or Safari?
- As some websites seam faster / slower in different browsers

4. Is it setup for Timemachine backups?
- When was the last backup?
- Is it trying to do a backup, try pausing backup and retesting

5. Try speedtest https://www.speedtest.net/
- In some rooms I get dramatically different speeds and different latencies
- Lots of websites, especially video or audit don't handle high latency
- Also some websites might fail to load correctly is high latency

6. Have you tried updating to the latest macos version?
- 10.15.4 macOS Catalina is the latest version
- be aware some older programs might stop working after upgrade, so
maybe do full time machine backup beforehand so you can revert.

7. Do you have Anti Virus?
- Some are better than others
- If you do check, latest version, check it isn't doing a fully scan
but you might be shutting it down before it completes so on next
restart it will start from the beginning again.

8. When was the last restart?
- Sometimes my macbook won't be restart for 6 months

9. What is setup to automatically start at login
- System Preferences -> Users & Groups -> Select the User -> Login Items

None of the above might help, but it might aid understand what is no
slowing it down.

John

Jason Davies

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May 5, 2020, 10:14:58 AM5/5/20
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I'll throw in one more to this excellent list (and it's a very likely contender so try it sooner rather than later) - I wonder if it's low on RAM? The clumsy but easy way to find out is to quit everything but the Finder and see if it's more responsive. Looking at 'About this Mac' (under the apple menu, it will say 'Memory' then probably 4 gigs) will help work this out. If it's 4, it's probably RAM shortage.

The exact way is to fire up Activity Monitor and select the tab marked 'Memory'. If the graph below is green when these things are running, it's fine. If it's red, the machine doesn't have enough RAM and you should try quitting everything you can do without. Please note individual tabs in Safari can easily be chewing up 100 mb each so close all unused tabs too.

4 gigs is really pushing it nowadays as the OS takes so much so if it is that, I'd consider upgrading the RAM and/or getting SSD (doesn't always cure this slowness though, oddly).

good luck,
Jason

Anthony Charles Crooks

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May 5, 2020, 10:42:37 AM5/5/20
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If the existing disk drive is close to its capacity being fully used then see if you can get the contents down to 80% of disk capacity. 

Failing that I would replace the disk drive with a solid state drive (SSD). If the MacBook already has an SSD then it probably needs erasing and restoring its contents. 

Maybe if the MacBook only has 4GB of memory I’d up it to 8 GB but on the Maci’s version you mention 4GB should work. 

The latest OS, Catalina, works best with SSD drive storage. SSD/8GB works really well with Catalina for a 2013 MacBook. 


Regards,

Tony
Sent from my iPhone

On 5 May 2020, at 15:15, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group <sm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Jason Davies

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May 5, 2020, 11:08:42 AM5/5/20
to 'Anthony Charles Crooks' via Sussex Mac User Group

Absolutely agree about using SSD as a general principle but I had a Macbook Air with 4 gigs that became virtually unusable (slow) when Mojave (not Catalina) came out, unless I monitored the RAM carefully. The SSD had about 50 gigs free. Fortunately it died so work replaced it with a virtually identical machine - only difference is it has 8 gigs of RAM, and it's running fine on Catalina now.

The good news is it should be usable if you find the right workaround/fix!

cheers,
Jason



Cheers,

Jason

Tilly

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May 5, 2020, 3:49:08 PM5/5/20
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Wow! Amazing. So many great ideas to try. I'll work through them with him and tell you what seemed to work best. Thanks so much Stephen, John, Jason and Tony!! (I would love to get him an SSD to put in but not likely to be possible in the current situation, unfortunately)

Sam - MacAmbulance

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May 5, 2020, 4:06:05 PM5/5/20
to 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group
If the Mac doesn’t have an SSD it’s entirely possible to install one yourselves. Any Mac with a spinning disk drive, especially on Catalina, will be intolerably slow.
_

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On 5 May 2020, at 20:49, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:

Wow! Amazing. So many great ideas to try. I'll work through them with him and tell you what seemed to work best. Thanks so much Stephen, John, Jason and Tony!! (I would love to get him an SSD to put in but not likely to be possible in the current situation, unfortunately)

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Jason Davies

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May 5, 2020, 4:08:19 PM5/5/20
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in that case, freeing up as much space on the hard drive as possible would make a difference.

On 5 May 2020, at 20:49, Tilly wrote:

Wow! Amazing. So many great ideas to try. I'll work through them with him and tell you what seemed to work best. Thanks so much Stephen, John, Jason and Tony!! (I would love to get him an SSD to put in but not likely to be possible in the current situation, unfortunately)

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Cheers,

Jason

Anthony Charles Crooks

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May 6, 2020, 3:08:05 AM5/6/20
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How about using an external SSD? I’m using one to run a 2014 Mac mini plugged into a USB 3.0 socket. Amazingly better performance than running from the very basic internal 5400rpm hard drives Apple puts in laptops.

My external SSD is from Integral, is credit card sized, but there are many alternatives on Amazon.

 You can do it cheaper by buying an internal SSD from, say, Crucial and putting it into an external drive case from Amazon - choose a case that doesn’t require tools to fit the SSD into it - really simple to do. Bigger but will work. Can always get the SSD put into the MacBook later when normality restored. 

Depends how urgently you need a quick fix. 


Regards,

Tony
Sent from my iPhone

On 5 May 2020, at 21:08, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group <sm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Jason Davies

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May 6, 2020, 4:53:38 AM5/6/20
to 'Anthony Charles Crooks' via Sussex Mac User Group

Yes, this is something I've done a few times for people. I have a 2012 Mac mini very happily running via USB 2 with this set-up. I nearly suggested it but didn't have time to look at enclosures for a recommendation.



Cheers,

Jason

Tilly

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May 7, 2020, 12:44:46 PM5/7/20
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Thanks Sam, Yes he is running Catalina and so you might have put your finger on the problem. It sounds a bit scary to install an SSD - how feasible is using an external one? We would need to source one too but assume that won't be a problem in lockdown via the internet. Thanks again.

Sam - MacAmbulance

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May 7, 2020, 2:06:29 PM5/7/20
to 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group
What’s the serial number of the laptop?

_

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Sam Mullen

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On 7 May 2020, at 17:44, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:


Thanks Sam, Yes he is running Catalina and so you might have put your finger on the problem. It sounds a bit scary to install an SSD - how feasible is using an external one? We would need to source one too but assume that won't be a problem in lockdown via the internet. Thanks again.

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Tilly

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May 14, 2020, 4:59:57 AM5/14/20
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Hi Sam
The serial number is C1MRC3URDTY3
It turns out to be older than I thought - mid 2012 13in runnng Catalina 10.15.4 VERY slowly! (16 minutes today from turn on to log in to his hangout..) He has 4Gb RAM.
What are our options?
Tilly

Tilly

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May 14, 2020, 5:01:20 AM5/14/20
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I forgot to say that he has PLENTY of space on the computer - has only used about 30Gb of the 500 GB or so.
Tilly

A C Crooks

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May 14, 2020, 5:08:54 AM5/14/20
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I’d say replace the hard drive with an SSD. 

To see how hard/easy it is have a look at

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Jason Davies

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May 14, 2020, 5:24:47 AM5/14/20
to 'A C Crooks' via Sussex Mac User Group

Agreed that SSD is the answer, but it looks quite fiddly. Don't forget the suggestion about using an SSD in an external enclosure. That would be much simpler to set up, and there will be no risk of damaging anything. It would mean carrying the external drive around with the laptop, and the battery running out a bit quicker. On the other hand, it would make the computer usable!

Happy to give further instructions about setting this up if that's the route you want to go down.

To be honest, it's worth adding an external drive like this as a backup, so it will be money well spent. An SSD from crucial big enough to cover 30 gigs would not be expensive.

Good luck,

Jason



Cheers,

Jason

A C Crooks

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May 14, 2020, 6:27:24 AM5/14/20
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I run my Mac from an external SSD. The Integral one is credit card sized in various capacities. I use the internal hard drive as backup using SuperDuper!  Seems to work really well - speedy, quiet, takes up negligible space. 

Try


These prices seem to vary from day to day. 


Regards,

Tony
Sent from my iPad

On 14 May 2020, at 10:24, 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group <sm...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



Sam - MacAmbulance

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May 14, 2020, 8:41:27 AM5/14/20
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Installing an SSD in a 13” MacBook Pro is one of the easier ones, you’ll just need a USB SATA adapter to connect the SSD and clone all the data over, then install internally in place of the hard drive.

_

Regards
Sam Mullen

+44 (0)7747778022
in...@macambulance.com
www.macambulance.com

MacAmbulance

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Jason Davies

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May 14, 2020, 9:32:59 AM5/14/20
to 'A C Crooks' via Sussex Mac User Group

I was thinking that if they became brave/liked the responsiveness, they could crack open the enclosure and fit the disk internally in due course, but £33 to get it running smoother on an external does sound very straightforward!



Cheers,

Jason

J.Sagues

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May 14, 2020, 11:04:34 AM5/14/20
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I am going through the same process for my ancient April 2010 MacBook 13. Crucial suggest a BX500 or an MX500. Not too clear which to choose. 
What size screwdrivers will I need?

I am assuming that an external unit would not be as fast with my USB version

Regards

John

Sam - MacAmbulance

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May 14, 2020, 11:08:01 AM5/14/20
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You’re best off consulting https://www.ifixit.com, they tell you the screwdrivers you need.

External enclosures are fine with USB2 and SSDs, they’re still more responsive due to the low latency of an SSD. Internally is of course much faster as it’s over SATA

BX500 will be fine for a 2010, you wouldn’t see any difference in speed with the MX500
_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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in...@macambulance.com
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J.Sagues

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May 14, 2020, 11:11:17 AM5/14/20
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Many thanks for the lightning support.

Regards

Jean

Tilly

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Aug 13, 2020, 7:57:07 PM8/13/20
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Hi,
Update on the situation with my son's MBP - I bought an SSD and a friend of a friend installed it, no problem. We haven't tested it on Googlehangouts yet but all looks much sleeker and faster so should be miles better. Sam advised me on the phone to get a Crucial MX50 1TB - thanks again Sam and everyone!

At the same time I got the same for my own trusty MBP as it's an improvement everyone recommends, and the same person installed it for me. However now I have a problem because there were 6 Users set up on the laptop (historic - now not needed) and the passwords do not work for 5 of them (definitely the correct passwords according to the hints but each on gets the 'shaky head' effect). For one there was the option to use the Apple ID to change the password so I've done that and that one will open, but it is not the admin account and so it pretty limited. Any ideas why this has happened and what to do about it? Is this a known problem? Everything was cloned over and it's the same operating system (High Sierra 10.13.6).
Thanks
Tilly

Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 14, 2020, 7:40:22 AM8/14/20
to 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group
Sounds like the data clone wasn’t done properly

I’d go back to the person who installed it and ask them to re-clone using Carbon Copy Cloner from your original drive. Sounds like they installed the SSD then installed macOS and used the migration assistant to import the data from the old drive, which isn’t as exact as a clone.
_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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Tilly

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Aug 14, 2020, 1:37:13 PM8/14/20
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Thanks Sam,
Unfortunately I got it done in Worthing and we are now back in Rugby. I have the old hard drive though. Would a re-cloning need to open up the laptop again or could it be done another way?
Thanks,
Tilly

Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 14, 2020, 2:05:55 PM8/14/20
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With a 2.5” usb sata adapter you could re-clone quite easily, just switch the Mac on holding alt > select the external, original drive to boot up from > use Disk Utility to erase the internal drive and Carbon Copy Cloner to clone from the external drive to the internal one > when it’s finished, select the internal drive in System Preferences > Startup Disk > Restart


_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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On 14 Aug 2020, at 18:38, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:


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Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 14, 2020, 2:06:52 PM8/14/20
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Another thought. If you can log in as an admin user, you can use system Preferences to reset the password for each of the other users, just reset them to what they were before, then you should be able to log in


_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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On 14 Aug 2020, at 18:38, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:



Tilly

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Aug 14, 2020, 6:12:05 PM8/14/20
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Thanks for the heads up about the 2.5” usb sata adapter - I might have to try that. The problem is that I'm definitely sure about the admin password and it is not working on the admin account so I've no idea how to get in to it.
Cheers
Tilly

Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 15, 2020, 3:22:45 AM8/15/20
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If you have no admin access then re-cloning might be your only option 

USB 3.0 to SATA Adapter Cable for 2.5" SSD/HDD Drives - SATA to USB 3.0 External Converter and Cable,USB 3.0 - SATA III converter (SATA-USB 3.0 converter cable) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N2JIQR7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_304nFbQD4QKGP


_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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On 14 Aug 2020, at 23:13, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:


Thanks for the heads up about the 2.5” usb sata adapter - I might have to try that. The problem is that I'm definitely sure about the admin password and it is not working on the admin account so I've no idea how to get in to it.
Cheers
Tilly

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Tilly

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Aug 16, 2020, 4:16:34 PM8/16/20
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Got back to the guy who did it, and he had made an admin user and gave me that password just now - phew! (He thought he had told me but it was in a cryptic text that I did not understand...) Have changed the passwords so can now get in to all of the Users bar one (seems to be one that is automatically logged in on start up). I plan to delete them but what are the implications? Most have no files in them but one or two do have files - should I save them before deleting the user or do they stay in the computer somewhere somehow? Thanks again for your advice!

Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 16, 2020, 4:19:47 PM8/16/20
to 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group
When you delete the users you’re asked what you want to do with the users’ home folders, you can select to delete or to keep them. If you keep them, the user’s files are then available in the /Users folder.

_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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On 16 Aug 2020, at 21:16, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:

Got back to the guy who did it, and he had made an admin user and gave me that password just now - phew! (He thought he had told me but it was in a cryptic text that I did not understand...) Have changed the passwords so can now get in to all of the Users bar one (seems to be one that is automatically logged in on start up). I plan to delete them but what are the implications? Most have no files in them but one or two do have files - should I save them before deleting the user or do they stay in the computer somewhere somehow? Thanks again for your advice!

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Tilly

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Aug 16, 2020, 4:32:30 PM8/16/20
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Great - that sounds simple! Will do that and tidy up... I only need one user (me!).
Thanks
Tilly

Tilly

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Aug 17, 2020, 5:34:43 AM8/17/20
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Well, I managed to delete two users but often it made the screen freeze and nothing worked on the Users and Groups pane, so it took me a while. I got a message once saying 'There was an error in the Users and Groups' but it didn't say what. I restarted a few times in the hopes that that would help but it didn't seem to. However moving to a different admin account seemed to help and I now have only the users I want. I found a way to reset the password of my main account so now I am fully back to normal. Thanks Sam!

Sam - MacAmbulance

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Aug 17, 2020, 5:47:42 AM8/17/20
to 'Jason Davies' via Sussex Mac User Group
If there’s a lot of user data it takes System Preferences a while to delete the users, it’s not good at letting you know it’s doing something in the background but you just have to let it run its course.

_

Regards
Sam Mullen

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in...@macambulance.com
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MacAmbulance

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On 17 Aug 2020, at 10:34, Tilly <tilly.h...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:

Well, I managed to delete two users but often it made the screen freeze and nothing worked on the Users and Groups pane, so it took me a while. I got a message once saying 'There was an error in the Users and Groups' but it didn't say what. I restarted a few times in the hopes that that would help but it didn't seem to. However moving to a different admin account seemed to help and I now have only the users I want. I found a way to reset the password of my main account so now I am fully back to normal. Thanks Sam!


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