Homing vs park

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Moi Toi

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May 4, 2020, 6:10:57 PM5/4/20
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Hi

Is there a correct way for do what i need ?

using latest edge build + reprap mode

After homing my machine is X min 0, Y max 0, Z max 0,

The usable coordinates are X 0 to 205, Y 0 to -240, Z 0 to -115

Imo this is the best position for this machine and this is my endstop position after retract and this allow to have the bed near the operator.

Trying to add a bl touch and leveling strategy cause a lot of problem.

The whole things wanted is :

homing machine
Bed leveling (only for printing)
return to home position without doing homing
Z probe (and XY if needed for cnc mill)
return to machine home position without doing homing
start milling/printing or other laser using work position set after probe
after stop or after suspend go to home position without doing homing
after resume return at the good position using XY first and at the end Z

I have read and read and try many things without good result, but this is not the first time i fight with that...

My setup is not standard but ???

I like to have a sharing config from 4axis mill + printer, before that i use the cnc build with difficult but "better result".

I'm lost i don't understand many things this is right but i'm not a 100% newbee i also use and do some change in linuxcnc/machinekit...

I suspect with printer build G53 is not managed ?
I'm unsure about what does G10 L20 P0 do with printer build.
I don't understand why i can't setup bl touch and "leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.initial_height"  with this config.
I don't understand why M504 g92 inside on_boot_gcode make the interface freeze with fresh build or leveling strategy.

How to do a G28.1 automatically after homing ? i think this is a solution !

I hope someone can help

Br


wolfmanjm

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May 4, 2020, 6:18:37 PM5/4/20
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I don't think you can do what you want. CNC and 3d printing are totally different things. Trying to do both is not going to work.

Just keep two sdcards, one for CNC and one for 3d printing. Swap the sdcard you want for the operation you are going to do, then boot.

FWIW having one machine that does both means you will actually have a really bad CNC and a really bad 3d printer in my opinion.

Moi Toi

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May 4, 2020, 6:33:35 PM5/4/20
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Arthur says to me that is possible to share a config for both usage without swapping anything.

I plan to use a standalone extruder with built in temperature management, so the setup need only to add a extruder for use as E axis.

The problem is now mostly the way smoothie use home position + the difference between grbl/reprap does not help

The goal is only having a home position different to the working position and the possibility to ask machine to go to this position when needed (pause/stop/filament-out)

The printer "up plus 2" work like this. 
Home with bed nearest operator
Ask Bed leveling from this position
Z probe
return to home position
start print
pause/stop go to home position

Moi Toi

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May 4, 2020, 6:33:58 PM5/4/20
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And sorry i miss to thanks !

Moi Toi

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May 4, 2020, 6:35:51 PM5/4/20
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conf file attached
config.txt

Moi Toi

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May 4, 2020, 10:09:03 PM5/4/20
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Well

I start to have something working but i need to remove soft endstop for Z

Using :
gamma_homing_direction                       home_to_max
gamma_min  0
gamma_max 115.3

and inside macro and other like G32 M374 G53 G0Z115 G0X0Y0 
This is no really what i want but this work



If try to setup like this i can't make leveling strategy working because of the heigh settings...
gamma_homing_direction                       home_to_max
gamma_min  -115
gamma_max 0.3


Also it hink this one does not work great (output file attached)
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.human_readable       true

Br



cartesian.grid

Arthur Wolf

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May 5, 2020, 4:47:28 AM5/5/20
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:33 AM Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Arthur says to me that is possible to share a config for both usage without swapping anything.

I mean, you can use a 3D printer firmware for CNC milling, but you are going to have to make some compromises to make that happen.
It's just not the same set of Gcodes, you have to use one or the other, and adapt things around that.

I plan to use a standalone extruder with built in temperature management, so the setup need only to add a extruder for use as E axis.

The problem is now mostly the way smoothie use home position + the difference between grbl/reprap does not help

The goal is only having a home position different to the working position and the possibility to ask machine to go to this position when needed (pause/stop/filament-out)

The printer "up plus 2" work like this. 
Home with bed nearest operator
Ask Bed leveling from this position
Z probe
return to home position
start print
pause/stop go to home position

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Moi Toi

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May 5, 2020, 6:46:18 AM5/5/20
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Hello

Yes i have understand that, but nobody seem to know what is the real Gcode difference inside smoothieware, but this is not the subject


Soft endstop is not supported with reprap and leveling strategy ?

In theory with my initial Z negative min value after Zprobe the Z is now 0 and this is the bed position, but the leveling seem to continue to use MCS in place of WCS.

Thanks for reply


Arthur Wolf

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May 5, 2020, 7:22:32 AM5/5/20
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On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:46 PM Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello

Yes i have understand that, but nobody seem to know what is the real Gcode difference inside smoothieware, but this is not the subject

I'm not sure what you mean, the differences are very clear, the 3D printer firmware follows the Reprap Gcode standard, and the CNC firmware follows the NIST Gcode standard.


Soft endstop is not supported with reprap and leveling strategy ?

In theory with my initial Z negative min value after Zprobe the Z is now 0 and this is the bed position, but the leveling seem to continue to use MCS in place of WCS.

Thanks for reply


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Moi Toi

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May 5, 2020, 9:29:01 AM5/5/20
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With these setting

The first probe point ic checked 3 time before going to other.
After homing MCS WCS are +115 so this is ok
after G32 M374 from smoopi MCS WCS are allways +115 where is the  probe offset and adjustment ?

## Z-probe
zprobe.enable                true             # Set to true to enable a zprobe
zprobe.probe_pin             0.27!^  #interrupt capable needed # Pin probe NO is attached to a interrupt capable, if NC remove the !
zprobe.fast_feedrate         300              # Move feedrate mm/sec
zprobe.slow_feedrate         5                # Mm/sec probe feed rate
zprobe.debounce_ms           1                # Set if noisy
zprobe.probe_height          20               # How much above bed to start probe
#zprobe.return_feedrate       0                # feedrate after a probe, default 0 is double of slow_feedrate (mm/s)
#zprobe.max_z                 200              # maximum default travel for the probe command, will use gamma_max if not defined
#gamma_min_endstop             1.28!^   # normally 1.28. Change to nc to prevent conflict and keep this one free for use a relay board


## Bed Leveling
# Switch module for Bltouch control
switch.bltouch.enable                        true          # Activate this new module
switch.bltouch.input_on_command              M280          # Command to set PWM value
switch.bltouch.input_off_command             M281          # Command to turn off switch
switch.bltouch.output_pin                    1.23          # This must be a PWM pin, see smoothieware.org/pinout  DOT NOT USE OR ADD THIRD BIG MOSFET
switch.bltouch.output_type                   hwpwm         # Hardware PWM, as software PWM is not adequate for servo/bltouch
switch.bltouch.pwm_period_ms                 20            # 20ms period, or 50Hz
switch.bltouch.failsafe_set_to               0             # in case of a crash or HALT condition

## Levelling strategy
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.enable               true
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.x_size               105
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.y_size               -140
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.size                 2
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.human_readable       true
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.do_home              true
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.probe_offsets        0,0,32
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.save                 true
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.initial_height       20
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.before_probe_gcode   M280
leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.after_probe_gcode    M281
#leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.dampening_start  0.5 # algorithm will be applied less and less from this height onwards
#leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.height_limit     1   # algorithm will stop applying compensation from this point onwards

Golfo

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May 5, 2020, 9:38:55 AM5/5/20
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I’m damned with these board and firmware 

Setting a home position automatically and ask to move at this position automatically after some pause/stop/finish/probe is something like impossible

That is possible I’m stupid 100% but always something fail 

I have problem with ena5 that work not really fine
I have problem with these stupid home position 
I have problem with leveling offset and other MCS/WCS that many time fail in the endstop for unknown reason

Golfo

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May 5, 2020, 10:02:22 AM5/5/20
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For remember I try with my wife to help for covid we make this firstly for a CHU and now also for near school all for free.

The goal is doing more and the result is loose all my time and energy for make a correct machine config, I’m saad and sleep less...
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Golfo

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May 5, 2020, 10:05:10 AM5/5/20
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image1.jpeg

image2.jpeg

image3.jpeg


Le 5 mai 2020 à 15:29, Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> a écrit :

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Arthur Wolf

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May 5, 2020, 10:43:27 AM5/5/20
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what's your homing/beginning sequence ( where you use G30, M306, etc ) ?

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Moi Toi

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May 5, 2020, 12:01:52 PM5/5/20
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At start i call directly Bed leveling from smoopi macro
G32
M374 
M375

i have for now put a fixed offset leveling-strategy.rectangular-grid.probe_offsets        0,0,33

so in my head after doing the leveling with built in homing + offset = MCS is adjusted (and off course is not exactly = as WCS)

When i call G32 the first point is checked 3 time it is normal ?


Moi Toi

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May 5, 2020, 12:41:29 PM5/5/20
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I appologize to all that found my attitude is bad, i fully understand that !

I'm not the first one and not the last one imo...

I have also share some work with comunity, i'm not here only for me own use so sorry for all my incomprehension about basic stuff.

Br

Moi Toi

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May 6, 2020, 9:40:38 AM5/6/20
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I start to have something usable and repeatable i think this is not compliant with doc but i can't have for now something logic (and working) for me using exemple.

The machine have different Z height available with spindle (89mm) or 3D head (approximately 115mm without bed and) and i like to keep the shortest setting for MCS for CNC consistency.

using this script for Z0 + bed leveling 
$H
G91
G38.2 Z-115 F300
G0 Z1
G38.2 Z-1.1 F10
G10 L20 P0 Z5
G0 Z5
G90
G32
M374
G53 G0Z89
G4 P1
G53 G0X0Y0

and this for only Z0, 
G91
G38.2 Z-115 F100
G0 Z1
G38.2 Z-1.1 F10
G10 L20 P0 Z5
G90
G4P1
G53 G0Z89
G4P1
G53 G0X0Y0

This allow me to have a repeatable and fixed home position both for milling and printing. (for now using printer fw + grbl false)

When want to do cnc, do homing and call only autoz macro with a touch plate (but need to be exactly the same height than probe offset for 3D use)

When want to printing first time after milling or changing bed, use Bedlevel macro that do all the job and load the grid
When want to printing later without changing something on the machine, do homing and call autoz macro


Now the simple questions :

It is something logic for you ?


Br





Moi Toi

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May 6, 2020, 10:28:17 AM5/6/20
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Another question sorry.

It is normal that the first G32 point is checked 3 times ?

first and second time with initial heigh with same feedrate, third time with zprobe height

Arthur Wolf

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May 7, 2020, 4:41:38 AM5/7/20
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On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 4:28 PM Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Another question sorry.

It is normal that the first G32 point is checked 3 times ?

Yes, it's checking if it's repeatable/accurate before probing. If your probe is broken in some way it'll detect that and tell you.

About your other message, glad you got it to work the way you wanted.
I'm not sure why you did it this way instead of following the documentation, G30 and M306 is what the documentation says to use, and thousands of users get it working that way, you should really stick to the documentation as much as possible, not doing so makes it more difficult to help you.

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Moi Toi

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May 7, 2020, 1:42:49 PM5/7/20
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Thanks a lot for feedback !

I will retry later to use G30 M306, i need to betterly understand what append.


Today the printer head was delivered, so i try now to make the motor turn without success.

The controler use a ULN2803A for input DIR/STEP i think the 3.3v 4ma from smoothie is not enough, is someone can confirm ?


Br

wolfmanjm

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May 7, 2020, 5:24:23 PM5/7/20
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Probing is ALWAYS in MCS for obvious (IMO) reasons.
Z probe offset is ignored (this is documented) only XY probe offsets are useful and used.

Golfo

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May 7, 2020, 5:40:13 PM5/7/20
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Hi

Oh yes this is what I have see and that does not help me lol 

+ finishing in the end stop using some G30 M306 and trying to return to some park position after that.

If my solution is not fully bad, they do the job approximately like wanting.

Br
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Moi Toi

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May 7, 2020, 7:40:06 PM5/7/20
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Well


I have a possible firmware issue with pin ena5 4.29

Smoothieboard 1.0 4xc, but used with all external driver the 5th axis is the extruder with built-in driver, i have tested swapping connector from other driver buth the proble is allways located to the pin ena5 4.29


I have now found how to reproduce the issue (with smoopi).

start machine
do not do homing !
try to extrude something from panel = motor does not move


start machine
do homing from jog button
try to extrude something from panel = motor does not move
now kill the machine
clear alarm
try to extrude something from panel = motor move

now kill the machine
clear alarm
do homing from jog button
try to extrude something from panel = motor does not move
now kill the machine
clear alarm
do homing from jog button
try to extrude something from panel = motor does not move

now kill the machine
clear alarm
try to extrude something from panel = motor move
now kill the machine
clear alarm
try to extrude something from panel = motor move

I'm unsure about what is the problem, try M17/M18/84 does not help.

Br

Moi Toi

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May 7, 2020, 7:42:12 PM5/7/20
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Sorry mistake here in the last message :

start machine
do not do homing !
try to extrude something from panel = motor move great

Golfo

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May 8, 2020, 6:11:02 AM5/8/20
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Motor work ! So this is ok with 3.3v and uln2803a the problem is the lack of internal supply not connected to internal driver supply.

Regards

Le 7 mai 2020 à 23:24, wolfmanjm <wolf...@gmail.com> a écrit :

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wolfmanjm

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May 8, 2020, 6:57:20 AM5/8/20
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P4.29 is a special pin and as documented cannot be used in open drain, and probably has less sink/source power look at the LPC1769 data sheet.



On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 11:11:02 AM UTC+1, Golfo wrote:
Motor work ! So this is ok with 3.3v and uln2803a the problem is the lack of internal supply not connected to internal driver supply.

Regards

Le 7 mai 2020 à 23:24, wolfmanjm <wolf...@gmail.com> a écrit :

Probing is ALWAYS in MCS for obvious (IMO) reasons.
Z probe offset is ignored (this is documented) only XY probe offsets are useful and used.

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 6:42:49 PM UTC+1, Moi Toi wrote:
Thanks a lot for feedback !

I will retry later to use G30 M306, i need to betterly understand what append.


Today the printer head was delivered, so i try now to make the motor turn without success.

The controler use a ULN2803A for input DIR/STEP i think the 3.3v 4ma from smoothie is not enough, is someone can confirm ?


Br

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Golfo

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May 8, 2020, 8:45:55 AM5/8/20
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With old driver you are right I try to use as open drain, but the extruder controler need to use as reversing only so this is not open drain.
(4.29!) (I can seen 0v and ~3.3v on this pin)

I have do a tweak for use other pin.


Thanks for reply 
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Golfo

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May 10, 2020, 12:47:31 PM5/10/20
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Hi 

Happy this is first print 

Vidéo.MOV

Arthur Wolf

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May 10, 2020, 3:30:28 PM5/10/20
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Glad you got it working!

On Sun, May 10, 2020 at 6:47 PM Golfo <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi 

Happy this is first print 

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Le 8 mai 2020 à 12:57, wolfmanjm <wolf...@gmail.com> a écrit :

P4.29 is a special pin and as documented cannot be used in open drain, and probably has less sink/source power look at the LPC1769 data sheet.

http://smoothieware.org/lpc1769-pin-usage

On Friday, May 8, 2020 at 11:11:02 AM UTC+1, Golfo wrote:
Motor work ! So this is ok with 3.3v and uln2803a the problem is the lack of internal supply not connected to internal driver supply.

Regards

Le 7 mai 2020 à 23:24, wolfmanjm <wolf...@gmail.com> a écrit :

Probing is ALWAYS in MCS for obvious (IMO) reasons.
Z probe offset is ignored (this is documented) only XY probe offsets are useful and used.

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 6:42:49 PM UTC+1, Moi Toi wrote:
Thanks a lot for feedback !

I will retry later to use G30 M306, i need to betterly understand what append.


Today the printer head was delivered, so i try now to make the motor turn without success.

The controler use a ULN2803A for input DIR/STEP i think the 3.3v 4ma from smoothie is not enough, is someone can confirm ?


Br

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Moi Toi

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May 10, 2020, 8:55:10 PM5/10/20
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Yeah i'm happy but now i need to learn for fine tuning the extruder + using slic3r.

I have see using Bltouch that the signal is inverted vs basic touch plate (NO).

Did you know a way for make both working ? (using separate pin, or changing pin direction from Gcode ?)
Or no other choice than order a real touchplate NC ?

I can't make soft endstop working with G32 (soft endstop Z was exceeded) i have try to make big limit without success.

Br
config.txt
g32-and-park.g

Arthur Wolf

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May 11, 2020, 4:00:43 AM5/11/20
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On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 2:55 AM Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah i'm happy but now i need to learn for fine tuning the extruder + using slic3r.

I have see using Bltouch that the signal is inverted vs basic touch plate (NO).

Did you know a way for make both working ? (using separate pin, or changing pin direction from Gcode ?)
Or no other choice than order a real touchplate NC ?

 Use an inverter logic gate to reverse the signal, and an AND gate to read both signals from a single pin?

I can't make soft endstop working with G32 (soft endstop Z was exceeded) i have try to make big limit without success.

You probably should just disable soft endstops for Z, realy.

Br

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Golfo

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May 17, 2020, 6:54:33 AM5/17/20
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Hi

I have some trouble finding the solution for invert Touch plate to gnd logic. Mostly because 3D Touch is not like a switch and send only the signal for some uS.


 But I have another question, please did you see a way for wait a signal 0/1 before start print ? 

The goal is to use the standalone controler led signal for start printing when temperature is ok. 

Blue led when cold, red led when hot but these led toggle frequently according to internal pid and temperature.

If print is started I need this signal does nothing anymore (I have think about a simple resume switch but if I do this and I ask a pause when the signal toggle pause is resumed automatically and this is not wanted.

Something like a one shot signal.

Br

wolfmanjm

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May 17, 2020, 7:34:42 AM5/17/20
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Sorry there is no way to do this, it is not exactly a common issue people face.


On Sunday, May 17, 2020 at 11:54:33 AM UTC+1, Golfo wrote:
Hi

I have some trouble finding the solution for invert Touch plate to gnd logic. Mostly because 3D Touch is not like a switch and send only the signal for some uS.


 But I have another question, please did you see a way for wait a signal 0/1 before start print ? 

The goal is to use the standalone controler led signal for start printing when temperature is ok. 

Blue led when cold, red led when hot but these led toggle frequently according to internal pid and temperature.

If print is started I need this signal does nothing anymore (I have think about a simple resume switch but if I do this and I ask a pause when the signal toggle pause is resumed automatically and this is not wanted.

Something like a one shot signal.

Br








Le 11 mai 2020 à 10:00, Arthur Wolf <wolf....@gmail.com> a écrit :

On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 2:55 AM Moi Toi <golf...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah i'm happy but now i need to learn for fine tuning the extruder + using slic3r.

I have see using Bltouch that the signal is inverted vs basic touch plate (NO).

Did you know a way for make both working ? (using separate pin, or changing pin direction from Gcode ?)
Or no other choice than order a real touchplate NC ?

 Use an inverter logic gate to reverse the signal, and an AND gate to read both signals from a single pin?

I can't make soft endstop working with G32 (soft endstop Z was exceeded) i have try to make big limit without success.

You probably should just disable soft endstops for Z, realy.

Br

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勇気とユーモア

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Golfo

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May 17, 2020, 8:00:20 AM5/17/20
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Ok saad but yes i understand this is really not common !

Have a nice day 
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Arthur Wolf

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May 17, 2020, 4:26:50 PM5/17/20
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You could use the ( experimental ) Motor module ( see the corresponding branch ). It has a feature to wait until a pin is turned on before continuing.

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Golfo

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May 17, 2020, 9:16:03 PM5/17/20
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Thanks a lot for suggestion (I have check your code)

For confirmation this is not ready to use for my project but is usefull to learn for make my own modul ?

Br

Golfo

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May 18, 2020, 6:14:32 PM5/18/20
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I have take some time for play with M306 M500 M565 G30 G92 and config override

This is effectively great for save some override value and restore them at start 

My goal is a little different due to my strange machine settings for have something like a repeatable parking position after homing using the G53 coordinates, maybee also because I share the config both for mill and printer.

I think I miss something from the start regarding to the home/park position.

After taking some time using the machine it appears for me that the most usefull things I need is a way to store offset from nozzle to probe that can be using each time I use macro for find the Bed using the bltouch without editing all the script.

Imh I need to probe the bed each time after machine is homed because endstop are not perfect but maybe this is really not usefull I’m really unsure.

Imh and on this machine the offset from nozzle from probe does not change except removing the 3D head (for use as millh but the bed height  can change for several reasons. For have a fixed park position I can’t use M306 because this setting change the MCS.

M565 Zsomething seem to have no effect (same as mentioned in the wiki config reference) 

Well at the end I’m a little lost and I don’t understand how to do something like store only the probe from nozzle offset in override conf and use this automatically without changing macro 

G10 L20 P0 Z0 I like if this type of command can use some stored value in config override for offset.

I apologize for ask always for not comon stuff.

Br

Moi Toi

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May 18, 2020, 6:20:17 PM5/18/20
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Attached config + macro
g32-and-park.g
autoz3d.g
autozcnc.g
config.txt

wolfmanjm

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May 19, 2020, 4:45:24 AM5/19/20
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you can save G10 values in config override with M500 if you set save_g54 true in config

On Monday, May 18, 2020 at 11:20:17 PM UTC+1, Moi Toi wrote:
Attached config + macro

Golfo

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May 19, 2020, 9:11:18 PM5/19/20
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Thank but I’m not sure ?

I like to store offset only from nozzle to probe so I don’t’ understand why save G10 can help 

In my macro I need to write other G10 L20 P0 Zsomething (Z something is measured distance from probe to nozzle) so if the offset change (replacing nozzle for exemple) I need to edit all macro

The goal is to use some command like M565 for store only this offset.

I think this topic is related to what I like to do.

Maybee i test not correctly but it seems for me that save M565 Z does not work with smoothie.

Br

Moi Toi

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May 19, 2020, 9:31:03 PM5/19/20
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I think this is exactly what i like :
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