Another Noob

[MVTangles]

Hi,

As I embark on my own built DC generator for our 37' boat, I just would like someone to clear up some basic concepts for me. Firstly, 'Tangles' is an old game fishing boat with twin 300HP motors, so it's clearly evident that running a 300HP motor to charge the house battery bank of 4x 150AH AGM;s is a tad wasteful, so I wanted to use a spare (Valeo 65A) alternator and a Chinese 10HP diesel to accomplish the task. The aim is to provide ample 12V power to run the deck floodlights, bait tank saltwater pumps, inverter for the microwave, the jug for coffee and, of course depth sounder etc while the main motors are off. The Chinese motor will also double to run the refrigeration compressor.

The Valeo alternator has an inbuilt regulator. 

1. Does the arduino control the inbuilt Valeo regulator? I'm unclear whether I have to remove this before installing the Arduino. If so, am I better off purchasing a Prestolite from eBay? (what size?)

2. Would you suggest a battery oriented install, OR, a alternator centric install?

Finally, although I do make my own PCB's for other projects (the latest being removing both the helm and cabin steering wheels and replacing them with joysticks (works a treat!), I would prefer to purchase a completed v3. Are there any still available?

Thanks for any advice and help

-Pete-

[Rick Bell]

Hey Pete, I went down this path a couple of years ago myself.

Some food for thought.

1) make sure you engine is water cooled.  It will make it MUCH quieter and allow for installation in a confined space.

2) having pulleys made can be expensive.  Dont underestimate this when costing it out.  Most alternators like to run above 6,000 RPM so you need to figure out pulley ratios too. 

3) Bills unit is the equivalent of a normal external regulator on steroids.  He has built some combined units and may have the code to control the engine as well.  It includes several profiles as well as comms to N2K/CAN and Signal K(an up and coming boat open protocol) so you can remotely monitor it.

4) Select an alternator that uses an external regulator if possible.  Some units can be converted with a bit of ingenuity.

5) When sizing your engine/alt you want to make sure there is a good load on the engine.  I typically allow for 3-400 watts of useable alternator output per horsepower.  If you want to go bigger that is fine too, as his Regulator can limit the output.  Bigger alternators running at lower capacity will typically last longer in a high current environment.  Important with LiFePo4 batteries that can take higher charges longer.  Your 65 Amp unit will only draw about 1 + HP at 12 Volts and not be much load for your engine.  Your refrig will likely add another 3-4 HP when in use.  I would suggest a decent flywheel too, as you are going to need its kinetic energy when cycling your refrig compressor. If you want to really load it up, you could always create an Off delay timer on the alt. field that unloads the Alt during compressor start.  This unit is ideal for that type of situation.

6) go with serpentine belts if possible.  Much less rubber dust and easier to get than matched v belts these days.

There are several units on the market that are similar to your thinking. You may want to have google look for some ideas for you.

Cheers,

Rick

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[Al Thomason]

Pete,

 

Hello – welcome to the group!  I have two questions for you: 

How often do you see yourself using this DC generator? 

And would you be using it to do finishing (full acceptance charging until batteries are truly fully charged)?

 

I ask, because of this is just used every once and a while – and you will not be looking to it to do a full SOC charge, the simplest approach is leave the existing regulator installed and run the alternator perhaps at a 2:1 ratio  (What speed is the 10Hp china diesel?)  You will not likely get a full SOC out of it, and it will be rather fuel inefficient.  But it will be simple.

 

However, if you are indeed looking to use it often – and/or you want to use it to get full SOC, here are some thoughts.   These are based largely off of our DC generator: A Kubota EA300 which drives an alternator and is also used for the HP pump on our RO water-maker.   We use our DC generator a lot, mostly in the Spring and the late Fall when the Solar panels do not carry things completely -- and our energy use increased to run the hydronic heating system.  I also use it mid-season every once in a while to assure the house batteries (FLAs) get a proper full SOC on them, which has the generator running for several hours at increasing slower RPMs as the demand decreases.  I am using an integrated engine controller + alternator regulator (this :  http://smartdcgenerator.blogspot.com   ) which was the predecessor for the Alternator Regulator.  FWIW, I am hoping to do a refresh on the integrated DC controller this winter – brining its design up to the level of the current regulator (CAN, simpler profiles, etc).

 

Another thought: If fuel efficiency is a consideration – you might consider upgrading to a larger alternator and spinning it slow.  Turns out alternators are more efficient at lower RPMs  (Example profile: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gUgVDevkPFY/VVug9P8CKnI/AAAAAAAAM8g/7LHWRa96g0I/s400/Alternator%2BEfficency%2Bvs%2BRPMs.png ).  I started with a medium frame 135A alternator and drove it at a 2:1 ratio.  It worked well.   But then I  ‘upgraded’ to a large frame alternator (Leece Neville 4800 series) and am now driving with a 1:1 ratio  (Around 2,800 RPMs during full output).  By doing this we picked up around 7% in fuel efficiency. 

 

Will you be running your engine at a fixes speed (due to the refrigerator compressor)?  If not, you can slow down the engine as the battery gets towards full charge, again picking up efficiency  – and lessening the noise.

 

Battery centric vs. Alternator centric:  I would go for battery centric.  Given your 10Hp engine is much larger then you will need for the alternator you have there is no risk of overloading the engine.  Better to let the regulator pay attention to the battery and treat it right.

 

Valeo alternators:  I was able to look at their site, and they have a large number of models available.  I am not sure how hard it is to convert one to an external regulator, but in general any alternator which has an internal regulator will need to be converted – the Arduino regulator replaces the internal regulator**.  But to me, this really comes back to the 1^st question:  How often do you envision using this?

 

I do have some Gen 3 regulators left – let me know if you are interested.  We are in port and have ready access to the post office (err, more like on-port, am finishing up a haul out.  I tell you, it is VERY unnerving to be on this boat when it is rock solid on land and does not move…)

 

-al-

 

** I get asked every once and a while about running in parallel with a built-in regulator – the idea being a fall-back.  DEPENDING on the internal regulator design it may be possible.  But I think doing so also prevents the Arduino regulator from doing its job – specifically, if we have decided the battery is truly fully charged and needs to go into float, most internal regulators will prevent that from happening.  My suggestion:   Do not attempt to run in parallel, and if you need a backup – carry a spare fixed voltage external regulator, or a 2^nd Arduino regulator, or even better:  A complete alternator with a fixed built in regulator - but do not try to parallel the smart regulator with the fixed voltage internal one…   Would be kind of myself running a three-legged rate with an Olympic class sprinter – I would just gum things up..

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

[Rick Bell]

Al, just a thought, but what about adding a pulse counter input to the next gen board so we can hook up an inline flow meter.  With this data we can calculate our energy costs per kwh.  It would be very interesting to see what the rpm vs efficiency curve looked like.  For those of us doing a lot of charging, we could fine tune our systems to squeeze out as many kwh as possible per gallon/litre of fuel.

Are there any free pins on the v3 boards that could be utilized?  Maybe the feature IN?

Cheers,

Rick

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[Al Thomason]

An idea – I have been using EGT to assess the load on my engine and match that with published fuel curves.  On the DC Generator controller I also actively regulator EGT – it lets me get the most out of the engine w/o overloading it, shortening my charging time (during Bulk), and also self-adjusts for changing environment conditions.

 

One could use the Feature-in for a fuel counter, or there is a kind of ‘hidden’ I2C port (used for the bed-of-nails test jig) that could be tapped for external hardware.   I think the bigger issue would be the cost of those fuel flow sensors, and even bigger:  There is only 400 bytes of code space left in the ATmega64M1 CPU!!!!  (400 bytes which I am guarding very very carefully : - )

 

Perhaps a stand-alone fuel flow sensor which pushes details to the CAN bus for all to use?

 

FWIW – future direction, I am looking to use the STM32F072 for the redesign of the DC generator board.   It has 128KB of code space, and is a little lower overall cost.  Making progress on a small battery-monitor board right now, but am not so pleased with the difficulty of setting up the IDEs.  (Arduino is so simple), so that area needs more effort I think – perhaps creating a new ‘board type’ and allow the Arduino IDE to be used.  (Presently using Keil uVision + STM32 hardware programmer). 

 

 

-al-

 

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

From: smar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:smar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MVTangles
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 12:54 PM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator
Subject: [smart-alt] Another Noob

 

Hi,

As I embark on my own built DC generator for our 37' boat, I just would like someone to clear up some basic concepts for me. Firstly, 'Tangles' is an old game fishing boat with twin 300HP motors, so it's clearly evident that running a 300HP motor to charge the house battery bank of 4x 150AH AGM;s is a tad wasteful, so I wanted to use a spare (Valeo 65A) alternator and a Chinese 10HP diesel to accomplish the task. The aim is to provide ample 12V power to run the deck floodlights, bait tank saltwater pumps, inverter for the microwave, the jug for coffee and, of course depth sounder etc while the main motors are off. The Chinese motor will also double to run the refrigeration compressor.

 

The Valeo alternator has an inbuilt regulator. 

1. Does the arduino control the inbuilt Valeo regulator? I'm unclear whether I have to remove this before installing the Arduino. If so, am I better off purchasing a Prestolite from eBay? (what size?)

 

2. Would you suggest a battery oriented install, OR, a alternator centric install?

 

 

Finally, although I do make my own PCB's for other projects (the latest being removing both the helm and cabin steering wheels and replacing them with joysticks (works a treat!), I would prefer to purchase a completed v3. Are there any still available?

 

Thanks for any advice and help

 

-Pete-

 

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[Frank Wells]

I wonder if you could hack an off the shelf Mass Airflow Sensor to determine engine load. It seems that measuring the mass of air in the engine would give you a fairly direct indicator of load (and linear).

---

From: smar...@googlegroups.com <smar...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Al Thomason <thoma...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 3:41 PM
To: 'Rick Bell'

Cc: 'MVTangles'; 'Smart Alternator Regulator'

Subject: RE: [smart-alt] Another Noob

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/smart-alt/594007c0.d009240a.1cc03.a2b2%40mx.google.com.

[Rick Bell]

Interesting idea Al.  Are you bringing the EGT TC straight in or doing external cold junction compensation?

And it shouldn't be too hard to find a 1/4" hall effect pulse meter that is WOG rated.  Lots of cheap plastic ones out there for $10 but I would be careful before using one of those.

Thanks for the update on the Battery monitor.  My vote is still for one standard processor system wide.  I will gladly pay a few extra bucks for a processor to standardize on one IDE !!

PS  Glad the rib job went well !

Cheers

Rick

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[Al Thomason]

Not sure that would work for Diesels, as the airflow is dependent on RPMs and largely unaffected by engine load  (for a NA one, a turbo obviously pushed more air in as load /boost increases). 

 

I do know for Diesels, and perhaps gas as well, EGT combined with RPMs is a known direct indicator of engine load.

 

-al-

 

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

[Al Thomason]

EGT:  I am simply using the low-voltage measurement capability of an INA226  (same as used on the shunt).  It has worked well, but without any cold-joint reference there is some level of non-liner error as I get away from the 800-900f range.  For my use it has worked well and very very low cost.

 

Pulse sensors, perhaps a fuel-flow project?  Do you have an example in mind?

 

CPU:  More I like the same IDE – I selected the Arduino purely because it was KISS to use, and I still like that.  Hence my thought of doing an Arduino port for future projects to support the STM32F0 CPU  (there is precedence for this already, so thinking it will be achievable).  One + I see to this approach is we can keep the KISS of the Arduino IDE (Simple download a new board-type, just like you are doing today for the ATm64M1 CPU), but it also opens up a full IDE with – DEBUGGER!  So nice to halt the CPU, set break points, poke around for values and registers..  Much more productive in the actually development phase.  But yes, for the, if you will, ‘maintaince’ phase I see very much the value of the Arduino IDE – which is why I have not given up on it.

 

Thank for the wishes on the Rib, it did go OK.  Mostly though we have fought rain – messing up our painting and sealing drying times.  Oh well, maybe do August next time out!

From: smar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:smar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MVTangles
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 12:54 PM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator
Subject: [smart-alt] Another Noob

 

Hi,

As I embark on my own built DC generator for our 37' boat, I just would like someone to clear up some basic concepts for me. Firstly, 'Tangles' is an old game fishing boat with twin 300HP motors, so it's clearly evident that running a 300HP motor to charge the house battery bank of 4x 150AH AGM;s is a tad wasteful, so I wanted to use a spare (Valeo 65A) alternator and a Chinese 10HP diesel to accomplish the task. The aim is to provide ample 12V power to run the deck floodlights, bait tank saltwater pumps, inverter for the microwave, the jug for coffee and, of course depth sounder etc while the main motors are off. The Chinese motor will also double to run the refrigeration compressor.

 

The Valeo alternator has an inbuilt regulator. 

1. Does the arduino control the inbuilt Valeo regulator? I'm unclear whether I have to remove this before installing the Arduino. If so, am I better off purchasing a Prestolite from eBay? (what size?)

 

2. Would you suggest a battery oriented install, OR, a alternator centric install?

 

 

Finally, although I do make my own PCB's for other projects (the latest being removing both the helm and cabin steering wheels and replacing them with joysticks (works a treat!), I would prefer to purchase a completed v3. Are there any still available?

 

Thanks for any advice and help

 

-Pete-

 

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[MVTangles]

Hi Rick,

Diesel fuel flow calculations require 2 fuel flow sensors as the fuel used = the flow through the first one THEN minus the fuel returned to the fuel tank through the second one (the return line). The Hall sensor pulses are normally counted using interrupt lines on the processor. I'm afraid that Al's project is almost at the limits with what he's done already. The answer lies in a new project that communicates with the SAR via i2c or something similar.

Pete

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[MVTangles]

Thanks Al,

Our usage pattern is different from yours. We are only weekend warriors with the occasional 4-5 days obn board. When on board though, we want heaps of amps without melting the batteries. Being in Australia, the solar panels keep the AGM's somewhat near fully charged during the week on the mooring, but, I'm guessing, not fully charged. Please note, the starting batteries (FLA's) are not part of this discussion for me as they are adequately maintained throughout the year via a separate solar charger (MPPT). They maintain a green indicator on the batteries all the time!

Given what you've said below, I'm wondering whether I might get a smaller chinese diesel (say 6HP) and manage it 'better' between the refrig compressor and an alternator. The fridge compressor has a recommended max RPM of 1500, but, I think that's a bit conservative.

Here's what I'm thinking, and I'd like your opinion.

 

Given that the refrig compressor requires about 3-4HP and that a 100A alternator requires about 4 HP (25A/HP), and that they don't need to be both on all the time, I'm wondering how to disable the alternator at startup, run the refrig compressor to 'bring down' the temp initially (say 30min), then cycle between the alternator and the compressor. How do I run the alternator at NO LOAD (or, perhaps run it in small engine mode). I'd also like to maintain an engine speed of around 1500rpm to satisfy the compressor. Hmm there's an answer here somewhere.

So, to answer your next part, YES, I'd like to get full SOC, because that's what is best for the batteries.

Pete

[Rick Bell]

Pete, I am guessing you have a mag clutch on the compressor, so maybe all you need is a simple interlock relay that when the refrig clutch pulls in, the regulator "enable" input gets disconnected.  You also use the spare temp input to switch it to half power, or the Feature IN to force it to FLOAT

Cheers,

Rick

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[Al Thomason]

Hello.

 

I see nothing wrong with your thinking.  And even if you only use the boat a few times you have some other special needs – ala, the need to alternator between full load and reduced while the compressor is running – and the desire to at times fully and properly charge your battery (I am assuming you do not have ready access to shore power when not using the boat??)  So perhaps going the KISS approach is not really your best route!

 

To answer your questions:

 

I think you might have problems running  at 1500RPMs, but you should verify what the continuous duty output of the engine is at that speed –  I suspect the engines output will be rather low at that speed (for reference, my 5HP Kubota  is not even load-rated at 1500RPMs, too slow.  At 1600 it is speced for a bit under 3HP).   Perhaps another option is to put the compressor on a belt reduction?  Maybe 1:1.75, run the engine at 2500RPMs to get better output, but keep the compressor a bit below the 1500 max point?  Then (depending on the alternator you get) you would belt it up or run it at 1:1.    Really comes down to where the sweet-spot is for the engine and the anticipated loads at each point.  If you can get a standard round shaft or your engine, sheaves are available at not too much cost.

 

To cut-back load when your compressor runs  there is a feature in the regulator where if you short out the alternators temperature sensor terminals the alternator will pull back to the ‘reduced load’ setting – that point is 50% by default, but your could change it to match your engines output less the expected compressor load and be able to tune things to allow your alternator to still put out some energy while the compressor is running.  A simple relay driven by the compressor on/off would make this happen simply.  (BTW, this is how I run my DC generator – I get around 135A full out, then it cuts back to about 65A while the water-maker HP pump is running).

 

As far as the alternator to use, you could see about the cost of converting your existing alternator to accept an external regulator.  But I would watch out as many of the small-frame alternators are rather challenged producing upwards of 100A for long periods of time, despite what the manufacture says.  When all is said and done you might be better off just getting a good mid-frame alternator which is able to deliver the 100A continuously without worries of overheating.   Such alternators are often available here in the US on Ebay for under $200 and many are readily converted to an external regulator using a factory conversion kit.

 

Here is just one example:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEECE-NEVILLE-ALTERNATOR-12V-DDC-6V-97-5390-00001-/302215346395?hash=item465d7038db:g:wQkAAOSwopRYlhX-&vxp=mtr

And if you look at its output curve, it would perform well using a 1:1 direct drive at 2600-2800RPMs

http://www.prestolite.com/productinfo/alternators/A0012500LC/A0012500LC_curve.jpg

 

You would be able to expect to draw 90-100A out of this unit all day long.  The external brush kit is around $20 or so.  For $100 hardly worth messing around trying to convert a small-frame alt – in my opinion.

 

 

Hope this gives you some more ideas!

 

-al-

 

 

 

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

From: smar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:smar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MVTangles

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 1:15 PM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator

Cc: pete...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [smart-alt] Another Noob

 

Thanks Al,

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[MVTangles]

 So, as I (think) I understand now (please correct me if I'm wrong), I have a 10Hp diesel motor running 2 belts. I'm running the diesel at approx 2500 rpm providing about 6HP output. One belt goes to the refrigeration  clutch, and the other goes to the alternator field wires. I have a relay with NO and NC contacts. The refrig clutch is connected to the NO contacts and the alternator field wires are connected to the NC contacts. When the refrig clutch is engaged, the field wires on the alternator go open circuit. This prevents the alternator from outputing voltage, and, therefore goes into a freewheel (??) state effectively spinning with very little resistance. When the refirg clutch disengages, the alternator field wires are connected and the alternator output resumes....

Pete 

[Rick Bell]

This sounds ok, but you may want to look at limiting the alt to 50 pct output as an option.  I think you may have the HP to do that. Instead of opening your field, you simply short the temp sensor input, limiting the alt output while running your refrigeration, so you will need a 2pole relay with two NO contacts.  Or just a DPDT style.

Rick

On June 18, 2017, at 7:20 PM, MVTangles <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:

 So, as I (think) I understand now (please correct me if I'm wrong), I have a 10Hp diesel motor running 2 belts. I'm running the diesel at approx 2500 rpm providing about 6HP output. One belt goes to the refrigeration  clutch, and the other goes to the alternator field wires. I have a relay with NO and NC contacts. The refrig clutch is connected to the NO contacts and the alternator field wires are connected to the NC contacts. When the refrig clutch is engaged, the field wires on the alternator go open circuit. This prevents the alternator from outputing voltage, and, therefore goes into a freewheel (??) state effectively spinning with very little resistance. When the refirg clutch disengages, the alternator field wires are connected and the alternator output resumes....

Pete 

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[MVTangles]

Thanks Rick,

I want to purchase a v3, but I am away for the next 2 weeks. I can still reply to messages though.

My thoughts move to a way to trying and blend the 50% power option as well as disabling. A quick question : Does the field carry the full amperage output? 

Thanks 

Pete

[MVTangles]

Also, when the field is open circuit, can you confirm that the alternator provides little resistance?

Thanks 

Pete

[Rick Bell]

The field connection powers an electro magnet which will draw from 6 to 15 amps typically.  I would suggest a watertight automotive style relay often used for the horn or compressor.  They are usually 20-40amp rated and very inexpensive.

Good luck

Rick

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[Al Thomason]

Pete,

 

I think you are getting close.  I  picked up that you now want to be able to totally disable charging in addition to be able to run the alternator and the compressor at the same time, so there are in effect three states:

 

1) Alternator only

2) Alternator with reduced output running in conjunction with the refrigeration compressor

3) Refrigerator compressor only – alternator is disabled.

 

I would not attempt to switch the field on and off via an external relay.  There will be a rather large mechanical shock load when you switch the relay back on plus because you would also be disconnecting the snubber, there is a risk of getting a VERY HIGH voltage spike on the field when you switch it off – potentially damaging the alternator and more than likely fusing the relay contacts.  If you truly with to cut the power to the alternator, switch the ENABLE wire instead.

 

In your case, here is what I would suggest:

 

1) Run your engine around 2500 RPMs  +/-  (I am making a large assumption on the specs of the engine, can you send a link to the one you are thinking of?)

2) Connect a medium or large frame alternator 1:1 using a soft coupler.

3) Use a reducing pulley to get to the RPMs you want for your compressor.

 

Then use simple auto relay – connect its coil in parallel with the compressor clutch so that the relay is active when the clutch is turned on.  As Rick mentioned, connect the N.O. contact &  common to the Temp A terminals (Alternator) – shorting out the Temp-A (Alternator) sensor  whenever the compressor is active and hence causing the regulator to apply the ‘Half-power’  pull-back factor.  You can play with this factor (default is 50% reduction) using the $SCA command if you need to adjust it from the 50% point.   To ‘disable’ the alternator, I would either switch the ENABLE wire or use a capability of Charge Profile #8 that was intended to be used with  LiFeP04 batteries allowing an external BMS to tell the regulator to turn off.  In your case you would configure CPE#8 to the profile for your battery and use the FEATURE-IN port to force the regulator into Float mode.  If you truly wish to turn the regulator off, you can setup float to pass directly into post-float and that will fully disable the alternator.

 

Because you are driving the alternator using a mechanical direction connection you do not need to worry about overloading a fan belt – select the alternator you want based on how much output you wish.  With a 10HP engine (giving maybe 8HP at 2500 RPMs) you should be able to deliver 180A or so no problem.  Myself, I like the Leece Neville 4800/4900 series alternators, and a 200A model would work well in this application I would say.  But if you wish lesser output perhaps a good mid-frame alternator (ala, the 555) would also be a good choice.  (It largely depends on the max acceptance specification for your battery manufacture).

 

Does this help?

 

-al-

 

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

[MVTangles]

Hi Al,

I'm away in Thailand at the moment, so I'll do my best to answer.

The chinese diesel power curve is here

A link is here 

https://www.bbta.com.au/jd-10hp-diesel-engine/

Can a soft-coupler handle the horsies?

Can you explain how the ENABLE wire is different from cutting the field? I've done some research... not a lot of information around!

I'll research what alternators I can get here in Australia when I get back home.

Thanks again to all for a really thought provoking discussion

Pete

PS 1HP = approx 0.75kW for image :-)

[Al Thomason]

Hello.   Nice to see more progress!

 

Engine:  Looking at the curve, I would run it at 2800-3000RPMs – and design around drawing out around 6.5 to perhaps 7HP.  (remember, alternators are typically around 50% efficient)

 

Soft couplers, here is a link of one’s ‘rated’ at 10HP:

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Shaft-Couplers/3-Piece-Flexible-Jaw-Couplers/?page_no=1&fq=ATR_Series:L\-095\+10\+HP\+7/16\%22\-1\-1/8\%22\+Bore

 

I noted the text calls out your shaft as 25mm, while the detailed drawing shows 1”/25.4mm   -- I would be inclined to believe the 1” figure…

 

 

Switching the field drive.  If you look at the Field drive ckt, sniped here:

 

 

 

When driving the field U7 will turn the FETs Q3 & Q4 on using a PWM pulse whose duty-cycle is decided by the how hard the alternator should be driven.   The field inside the alternator is a large coil, and as a result has a notable inductance.  When the FETs turn off, that inductance will induce a large negative back voltage.  Here is where the two diodes come into play (D18/D19), then are ‘snubbers’ and will ‘snub’ that large back-pulse.   Without snubbing, the flyback voltage can be very large, and could even cause flash-over inside the field coil – potential resulting in damage over time.  Is one of those things which likely will work for a while – maybe a long while, unless it doesn’t…

 

That is the biggest issue with switching the field.  Another issue would be how the regulator itself thinks about no longer being able to control the alternator – there are a couple of fault checks around this, where if the regulator realizes it seems to have no impact on the alternator it will fault out.

 

Another concern I can think of would be what would happen when you  ‘reconnect’ the regulator.  If in the meantime the regulator has wanted to drive the alternator harder, and slowly ramped up the field to 100% (and did not trip a fault-check) - once you connect the field back up there will be a sudden mechanical shock on the engine as the alternator in effect ‘turns on’ at full blast – no soft ramping.

 

 

These are three concerns I could come up with adding a relay between the regulator and the field – and why I would suggest either using the ENABLE-IN option to force the regulator into float/stop mode, or switching the ENABLE pin.  But the biggest concern if the lack of snubbers and the resulting voltage spike.

[MVTangles]

Thanks Al, for the links etc...

You may have noted that these motors ALL run CCW because the hand pull start is on the CW side. I had intended to remove the pull start, thus gaining access to the CW side of the shaft. BUT, connecting by a coupler 'converts' a CCW motion to a CW motion anyway. The problem that comes from that is that I would need to run the refrig compressor via pulley and that would run it CCW. Most are only rated CW.

All thoughts welcome (including suggesting compressors that run CCW. (I have a Sanden SD7H15 (I think)). 

[Al Thomason]

Given you are using a drive belt, could you not simply turn the compressor around?   If you end up driving the alternator using the 1:1 shaft coupler you could set the compressor just next to the alternator .. perhaps not too bad.   Or even stack it on top of the alternator, perhaps a nice tidy package!

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

From: smar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:smar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MVTangles

Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2017 4:03 PM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator

Cc: pete...@gmail.com; rick...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [smart-alt] Re: Another Noob

 

Thanks Al, for the links etc...

[MVTangles]

Hi Al,

I've bought this alternator

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_products/specs.php?pf=true&item_detail_id=26971&item=BLP2328GH. We only have limited choices here in Australia. Your comments appreciated

Pete

[Al Thomason]

Looks like a beefy unit, should work well – once you convert it to accept an external regulator.

 

-al-

 

 

Viking Star

45' Monk Sr. / McQueen

mvVikingStar.blogspot.com

 

From: MVTangles

Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 4:47 PM
To: Smart Alternator Regulator

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