SKY 7 and PDF-Xchange macros

[Audrey Dorsch]

Apparently Margaret Berson created two sets of macros, one for Acrobat and one for PDF-Xchange. I have the Acrobat list. Does anyone here happen to have the PDF-Xchange list?

If so, would it be ethical to send me that list since I have already paid for Margaret's macros  before she created the PDF-Xchange version? 

Thanks for your help.

Audrey Dorsch
Dorsch Editorial
Editorial services: proofreading, indexing

[ju...@writeguru.com]

I would also like to know that. I’ve not gone to PDF-Xchange precisely because of the macros.

 

I also paid Margaret for the macros, and I paid her for every bit of help she gave me. She noted that and said she appreciated it.

 

But it would make me feel freer to accept the macros for PDF-Xchange.

 

~Judi

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[Maria Sosnowski]

Margaret’s assets including her macros are not in the public domain just because she died.  They would have passed under her will or as directed by law for people who have no will.  Presumably they are now owned by her son.  He can decide what to do with them, or decide to do nothing with them.  I don’t believe it is ethical to copy and send her macros now any more than when she was alive, unfortunately. 

 

I have what I believe is contact information for her son.  If anyone wants to email me off list I will provide them that information and they can ask her son about the state of the macros. 

 

Maria

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[Siusan Moffat]

HI folks,

Wasn't ASI involved in speaking with her son about the Macros? Does anyone know what is happening with this? Honestly, we need indexing societies to step in and stop this from happening or jump into action when needed. It's very disheartening to me that this issue hasn't been figured out by now :( :(

Siusan

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-- 
Siusan Moffat,
Indexing Society of Canada member
http://about.me/siusanmoffat
absoluteindexing.com

I acknowledge that I live and work in the 
territory of the Anishinaabe, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat,
and the Mississaugas of the Credit River, now home to many
Indigenous Peoples and newcomers from around the globe. I
recognize that decolonization must be an active and ongoing
process of reconciliation.

[Millis Indexing]

While I don't have specific knowledge regarding the other indexing societies, ASI does stay in contact with the various people and organizations who own and maintain software used by indexers. However, indexing societies cannot "stop this from happening." The owners of the software have the right to make their own plans (or not) regarding what happens to their software when they are no longer around to handle it themselves, and they have no obligation to share their plans with the indexing societies if they don't want to. The societies can ask if plans exist, and they can let software owners know how important these types of plans are to the software users. But there is nothing they can do to solidify plans, or even make them known to the users, unless the software owners are willing to engage with them in that process.

Best,
Kendra

-- 
Kendra H. Millis
President, American Society for Indexing, 2017-2018
Theodore C. Hines Award recipient, 2020

Millis Indexing Services
MillisIndexing.com

www.MaineFiberWorkshop.com

[Maria Sosnowski]

I thought that ASI was reaching out to her son to see what was the next steps.

However, the indexing societies cannot step in and stop this from happening. Margarets macros belonged to her and there is nothing that ASI can do as far as telling her what to do with them.

It is up to individual people who own the software to make succession plans.

Maria

[Judy Staigmiller]

Last I heard, Margaret's son was not responding to inquiries.

Judy Staigmiller

InOrder Freelance Indexing

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[Siusan Moffat]

Regarding we don't have the last say - Absolutely! When I said "stop
this from happening" I meant I'd just like societies to have that
communication. And I'd like the societies to communicate with each other
more. If ASI has worked out something with Margaret's son, folks at ISC
haven't heard anything about it. Every morning when I start up my
Margaret's Macros I dread the day it will stop working :( It was quite
clear none of the societies were prepared for Margaret's passing. :(

Siusan

--

Siusan Moffat,
Indexing Society of Canada member
http://about.me/siusanmoffat
absoluteindexing.com

I acknowledge that I live and work in the
territory of the Anishinaabe, Haudenosaunee, Huron-Wendat,

and the Mississaugas of the Credit River, now home to many

[Siusan Moffat]

ooohhh that's really sad :( :(

Siusan

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[Millis Indexing]

I believe the societies are attempting to engage in this type of communication, but the reason there isn't information being shared is that there isn't any information to share. As far as I know, no arrangements have been worked out with Margaret's son, with anyone.

I don't think this is an issue of lack of preparation on the part of the indexing societies. They ask the questions and they try to maintain contact, but if the software owners aren't willing to share their plans (or even make plans), there isn't anything the societies can do to prepare.

Best,
Kendra

-- 
Kendra H. Millis
President, American Society for Indexing, 2017-2018
Theodore C. Hines Award recipient, 2020

Millis Indexing Services
MillisIndexing.com

www.MaineFiberWorkshop.com

[Maria Sosnowski]

Exactly.  This is no different than ASI reaching out to one of us and wanting to know what our plans for our business are after we die or if we get incapacitated by a stroke or something.  It’s up to us to make those plans.

 

I suspect her son has no knowledge/interest in her macros.  Perhaps someone who is technically savvy could offer to buy them from the son and then carry them forward.  But we can’t make the son do anything. 

 

Maria

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[Siusan Moffat]

Actually, it just occurred to me - what about SKY? I like Cindex but not as much as Sky. Does anyone have any idea what Kamm's ideas are on this subject? Will we all be left to turn to other software or will be I be able to continue using Sky until I retire? :) :)

Siusan

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[Cheryl Lenser]

Kendra's right. I can't speak for the other indexing societies, but ASI has reached out to software owners about their succession plans, but that's all ASI can do. We as users (and society members) can encourage the software owners to make those plans, but we can't force anything. It's up to the owners to formulate those plans and communicate them with their user bases.

Thanks,

Cheryl

--

Cheryl Lenser

Professional freelance indexer & editor

Treasurer, American Society for Indexing

c_le...@hotmail.com

www.cheryllenser.com

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From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Millis Indexing <khmi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2023 10:33 AM
To: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SKYIndexUsers] SKY 7 and PDF-Xchange macros

 

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[Theresa Duran]

As Judy S. and Cheryl have noted, ASI did indeed reach out to Margaret’s son, but he was not responsive. ASI also made inquiries to the other indexing software developers, including Kamm, about their legacy plans. Kamm has thus far not responded.

Dave Ream’s death sparked an awareness of the importance of succession planning for software developers. ASI knows this is an important issue for indexers and will continue to pursue it.

Theresa

 

Theresa Duran, PhD | Fairfax, California
Duran Editorial Services | the...@duraneditorial.com
President, American Society for Indexing

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[Siusan Moffat]

Thanks so much for the updates Theresa. Sounds like some of us need to nudge Kamm :)

Siusan

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[Rudy Leon]

oh, I think ASI -- and the other associations --could do more. As an industry, we are extremely vulnerable to the passing or incapacitation of our technology vendors. And most of us work solo, so our clients are vulnerable to our incapacities.

Developing and providing strong training in succession planning, concrete details, steps, questions, seems like something our associations can and should be doing.

Thank you,

Rudy Leon

Developmental editing, copyediting, and publishing consulting
http://rudyleon.com

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[Maria Sosnowski]

Theresa raises a good point.  All that ASI can do is inquire about the plans software developers have made.  They cannot force people to take steps.  There is a lot of free information online about succession planning and if the developers are interested they can pursue it.

 

I see this as analogous to wills – everyone should have one, but many people don’t.  Or they have one that is terribly out of date.  People don’t want to face their mortality.   

 

For Margaret’s macros, I see two options:

Someone who is tech savvy contacts her son to ask if they can buy the rights to them.  He may welcome someone wanting to purchase them more than people simply asking about getting them, and may be more responsive.

 

Or, someone tech savvy can buy a macro program, and write their own macros, and sell them.  There are indexers who would not find that as intimidating as I do.  The actual macros belong to Margaret’s heirs, but the concept of the macros does not. 

 

Maria

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[ju...@writeguru.com]

I like both of those suggestions.

~Judi

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[ju...@writeguru.com]

I have definitely asked Kamm—and have gotten zero response.

~Judi

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[Maria Sosnowski]

Just as a follow up about Margaret’s Megabit Macros: I provided the contact info for her son Eric to an indexer who inquired.  The indexer contacted him offering to pay to get a copy of the macros her their own use, and got this response:

 

His first response was: 

I don’t have it set up for sale, Sorry

 

And second as I wrote before was: 

If I had an easy way to do it I would

 

He responded quickly. 

 

So I think this is going to be a dead end.  I invite someone with the technical know-how to select the macro software of their choice, and create helpful macros for sale to other indexers.  I know that Margaret did well with it.  She also provided detailed instructions for installation and use (enough that me as a non-techie person could do it based on just the instructions). 

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[ju...@writeguru.com]

>>I invite someone with the technical know-how to select the macro software of their choice, and create helpful macros for sale to other indexers. 

 

Anybody who is thinking about it should hang on to this response. If there is ever a question about copyright, this comment would likely factor in.

~Judi

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[Siusan Moffat]

I mentioned to another indexer last week - perhaps a lot of the issues have to do with us indexers making it easy for the software people? I'm not sure exactly what that would entail, but if all the societies were working together and bringing in folks with skills, we could keep these software going. If the problem is mostly "hassle", let's see if we can make it as smooth and uncomplicated for them, do a lot of the work for them or set up an easy process??

Seems weird to me that we are telling people to create macros when there are some wonderful macros available and just need a payment solution?

Siusan

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[ju...@writeguru.com]

It would be nice if the indexing societies could sell them. Someone like Margaret could make them available to the societies at the time of her demise. The societies could sell them—with a fraction going to her heirs.

 

Would something like that be a doable model?

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[Maria Sosnowski]

This isn't a viable long-term solution. The macros needed to be updated from time to time as the indexing software changed, or as the macro software changed.

Margaret also regularly answered questions from people, and created custom macros upon request.

This all still relies on the software creator making succession plans.

Maria

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[Kara Pekar]

I was about to buy Margaret's macros when her passing made that impossible. It's so frustrating to know that technology was once available and no longer is. Personally, I'm not tech-savvy enough to build my own cross-platform macros. (Basic ones within SKY I can handle, but macros to aid the process of copying and pasting entries from PDF to SKY are beyond me.) 

I would welcome another indexer's attempt to create something similar, as long as it wouldn't violate Margaret's copyright. It does not sound like her son has any plans to sell Margaret's macros in the future. I am not an expert in copyright; if someone came up with their own macros, independently, would that violate her copyright? 

Kara Pekar

Wordsmith Indexing Services

[Maria Sosnowski]

This is information about copyright: https://www.copyright.gov/what-is-copyright/

 

Please note the first sentence which defines copyright: Copyright is a type of intellectual property that protects original works of authorship as soon as an author fixes the work in a tangible form of expression.

 

The rest of this goes into greater detail about what all of this means.

 

Copyright is protecting authorship of a tangible form of expression.  Margaret wrote her macros, and those macros as she wrote them belong to her since they are a fixed, tangible form of expression.

 

This doesn’t mean nobody can ever write their own macros. 

 

Maria

 

P.S. Anyone interested in doing so should verify their understanding of the law with their own independent research or consultation with an attorney.  This my personal opinion, and is not meant to be legal advice and this comment on this list does not factor into anyone’s legal situation regarding copyright. 

From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Siusan Moffat

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[mjhw...@gmail.com]

There's been quite a lot of chat about this on more than one group site. It is quite straightforward, though rather time-consuming, to modify Margaret's macros for any other program. I am not particularly computer-literate, but I was able to follow the Macro Express documentation sufficiently well to modify the macros to work with other PDF readers, word processors and indexing programs as well as create new macros by copying and editing those created by Margaret. I already own Macro Express to run the macros, and I paid for the macros, so what I do with them is my own business, provided the modifications are for my own personal use and not shared. So get coding!

Michael

[mjhw...@gmail.com]

If he can't be bothered to sell it, can he be bothered to sue? Anyone willing to take the risk?

Michael

[ju...@writeguru.com]

Anyone who is willing to take the risk will be doing the indexing community a huge service.

~Judi

 

 

 

From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of mjhw...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:24 AM
To: SKYIndexUsers <skyind...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SKYIndexUsers] SKY 7 and PDF-Xchange macros

 

If he can't be bothered to sell it, can he be bothered to sue? Anyone willing to take the risk?

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[Maria Sosnowski]

What risk?  I would do this if I knew how.  Margaret made a nice extra income off this project. 

 

And he may be unable to sell.  He may not have access to her files, or he may not know enough about it or these files to get people what they need.  Or he may have been dealing with the huge work involved in wrapping up someone’s life and not want one more thing to deal with. 

 

I don’t see this any differently that if an indexer died – nobody would expect their children to step in and finish their projects. 

 

Maria

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[ju...@writeguru.com]

Point is, there is a market for the macros. I’m continuing to use Acrobat Pro 9, which on many PDFs shows graphics as black splotches, because I’m unwilling to pay the upgrade price. I’d switch to PDF-Xchange if I could get the macros—and I’d be happy to pay for them.

 

~Judi

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[Barry Campbell]

Indexers are very fortunate. Some of the software you use has been around and been supported for decades. New software is also arriving.

I've worked in the engineering industry. Some software has been around for decades, but some has disappeared because the supplier altered their strategy at short notice.

In the early days of PCs there were many hardware options, many operating systems, network protocols, spreadsheets, wordprocessors and graphing options.

DEC, the backbone of scientific and engineering computing was swallowed by DEL.

IBM pulled out of PC manufacture. Apple and Microsoft survived, but they both update their software on a regular basis, sometimes the changes are well regarded, sometimes not.

Social media is still changing all the time.

Barry Campbell

www.indexbase.co.uk 

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From: skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of ju...@writeguru.com <ju...@writeguru.com>
Sent: 09 September 2023 08:59
To: 'Siusan Moffat' <siusan...@gmail.com>; skyind...@googlegroups.com <skyind...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [SKYIndexUsers] SKY 7 and PDF-Xchange macros

 

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