OR: Feb 5 (Panoche Hills) and Feb 6 Laguna Mtn

[Christopher Kelly]

Sorry this is so late..its been almost a week, but finally have a window to write about it before it withers from my memory.

Friday Feb 5

Finally got myself, son Brendan, my NP101, gear and my 125 pound Romanian sheepdog Merlin into the back of my ford C-Max and we pulled out of our driveway at 6:52 to head for Panoche Hills BLM area (see link below).   A note to folks driving from Santa Cruz....the shortest route by about 50 miles is to go through Panoche Pass.  Luckily the water crossings on the east side of the Diablo Range (?) were clear and dry.

https://goo.gl/maps/Phwycj41uFHmZdUj7

Got to the parking area at 9:20 and was pleased to find that Rogelio was already setup and busily capturing photons for yet another masterpiece.  

I had not observed from the ca 2009 parking area, but initial impressions were grand.   The sky was quite dark, but what struck me was that I had never seen as many easily visible stars south of Canis Major right to the horizon.   I took about 10 minutes to lie down on the hood of my car and take it all in.

Got setup and two horrors presented themselves:

1) My red dot finder batteries had died.  Star hopping would be difficult.

2) My stupid car parking lights stay on as long as there is a door open (sorry Rogelio).

I planned to leave NLT midnight to I quickly went to work on eye candy: 

1) M45 and Merope Nebula (26x).  Nebulosity was clearly visible in a way that it never could be from suburban skies.   The low power showed the entire cluster and it really popped. Let my son have a look then moved on.

2) M42 complex with three distinct spectacular nebulae NGC 1975, 1976 and 1999 all framed in the view at 26x.   Went to higher power (42x) and resolved the Trapezium, so the seeing was pretty steady.     Let my son have a look and then moved on

3) M1 Crab Nebula.   Eyeballed along the tube just above Zeta Tau and there was the Crab, bright on the edge of the field at 26x.   Upped the magnification to 42x and got a view clearly showing trapezoidal shape.   Lingered for a few minutes, let Brendan take a look .....   Merlin had noticed the coyotes.... we moved east towards Monoceros...

4) Found Gamma Gemonorum by eyeballing along the tube...star hopped down to Xi Geminorum then one field over to end up on the Christmas Tree Cluster complex.    Again a very pretty view at 26x.   Let Brendan take a look...passed by the Cone Nebula and then moved on to ...

5) Rosette Nebula and the rectangular NGC 2244 ( a new one for the H400 list) at both 26x and 42x.  Rosette was a large evenly bright rough edged blob better viewed at 26x than 42x.   I had "seen" this object once before in late December 2004 with the C14, from above Jade Mill in the Clear Creek Management Area before it was closed, but not all at once of course.   This view was most satisfying, especially since my son was able to see it clearly as well.

6) Quick slew and was off to M79, in Lepus.   It was a bright yet unimpressive little golf ball at 26x, but an easy find without the finder.

7) M41 just a short sweep below Sirius.  We were nearing the end of our short run, and we were getting cold so we decided to pack it up and left just after midnight.

Panoche Hills gets short shrift in both camping websites and our own recommendations, but this last look has me eagerly awaiting the next last quarter or new moon in March for a return trip.   The good roads, level viewing area with picnic tables plus pit toilets coupled with brighter Bortle 3 have changed my mind about this site.

I have had success getting special astronomy permits from the local BLM Office for viewing behind the gate in the past.  Panoche Hills is supposed to be "closed" April through Oct due to fire reasons, but there is year round access regardless for VOR maintenance.  It is also the place that BLM wanted to push as a stargazing spot so I think its worth trying to get a year round permit for astronomy use, as astronomers are not the kind of folks that would cause an errant spark, campfire or hot casing to burn the place down.

Feb 6 Laguna Mtn Area

All I can say is that we arrived after dark, but ALL the campsites in the general area were taken.   And to our horror, there was lots of gunk in the sky so we just drove around, ad finally set up at the very end of the Clear Creek Access Road just in front of the gate closure.   Its a good place with good south horizons, but half a Bortle zone darker than Panoche Hills.

https://goo.gl/maps/2aD2YozVFss2MFCZ7

We set up the NP101, and got about 5 minutes of clear sky.   So we were skunked and can whole heartedly UN-RECOMMEND any of the Laguna Mtn or Condon or Jade Mill camp areas during COVID 19.  Social Media has rated these sites highly and they have been ruined by crowds during the weekend.  Possibly if you can get there early on Friday you may snag the good astronomy site (Campsite 1 or 5) but you'll still have to put up with lots of folks.   As a passing shot, I did get an SQM reading of 21.66 (6.89 limiting mag!) as we passed Laguna Mtn Campground..which steamed me even more, and made me vow to go back to Panoche Hills more.

Can't wait until March and a socially distanced Messier Marathon at Panoche Hills, and to talk to BLM about getting a off season permit.

Clears

Chris

[Akarsh Simha]

Hey Chris

I read your report with great interest. I’ll do some more research on Panoche hills, but did I read your email correctly, that Laguna is a tad darker than Panoche? If so what advantage does Panoche confer over Laguna?

The last time I went to the Laguna area, I actually found a free campsite, but it had partial tree cover. Moreover I expected lights from the campers until 10 (and who knows if someone decides to keep their awning lights on all night), so I decided to avoid the camping area and instead set up at the trailhead parking lot paved area. About half an hour later, a game warden came up to me and was curious what I was up to, and after I satisfied him that my scope was a scope and not a gun, he hung around at a station for several minutes and then left. As I was about to pack up and go, another game warden / ranger pulled over and asked me if I had seen anything unusual, and I described that I’d mostly seen game warden vehicles passing by. Both officers were nice and nobody objected to me spending the night observing there, away from camper lights. I even asked if I was okay having set up there.

The camper lights were more distant and largely shielded so I had no trouble until the sky went south. I would do this again if I went to Laguna.

Also, Rogelio pointed me to the spot at the junction of the road leading to Pinnacles and Hwy 25. There’s large open spaces on either side of the road. Not sure of what jurisdiction it comes under, but Rogelio mentioned that campers set up there from time to time. Nobody bothered me when I set up a scope there for a few hours. Previously when I was in the area during the Perseids setting up a camera, I had an amateur astrophotographer from the coast area join in, followed by some naïve Perseids watchers who were unaware of the brutality of white flashlights (they were quickly informed of etiquette and decided to stay away) — but meteor weekends can be such. The lights from the highway are a bother but hopefully we’re trained past our deer reflexes of staring at bright white lights in awe.

Regards

Akarsh

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[John Pierce]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 2:22 AM Akarsh Simha <akars...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Chris

I read your report with great interest. I’ll do some more research on Panoche hills, but did I read your email correctly, that Laguna is a tad darker than Panoche? If so what advantage does Panoche confer over Laguna?

I explored Panoche Hills a couple years ago with the idea of doing all night star party 

I picked this spot...

https://www.google.com/maps/place/36%C2%B041'25.0%22N+120%C2%B048'02.5%22W/@36.69072,-120.8046475,2431m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d36.6902634!4d-120.8006926

I shot this video driving back to the kiosk/visitors area

https://youtu.be/6sQrCPboXAE

which was this drive, https://www.google.com/maps/dir/36.709099,-120.8121983/36.690263,-120.800693/@36.7032913,-120.8133038,4040m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e0   

as I say in that video, vehicles have to stay within 15 feet of a designated road.

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[Julien Lecomte]

Please, share what you find out from the BLM about the possibility of getting a year-round astronomy permit. Many folks on this list (myself included) are highly interested :)

Thanks,

Julien

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[Christopher Kelly]

Hi Akarsh...

"I read your report with great interest. I’ll do some more research on Panoche hills, but did I read your email correctly, that Laguna is a tad darker than Panoche? If so what advantage does Panoche confer over Laguna?"

Laguna Mountain +

• Laguna is a clearly darker, abut 1/2 to 1 Bortle Class depending on the sky brightness model.   For visual astronomers this is definitely a plus, and makes even a 4-inch refractor give excellent deep sky views.
• Unlike Laguna Mountain or Jade Mill, Panoche is rather exposed (potentially windy) and there are exposed street lights miles away to the north (which I take to be the Los Banos corridor) which don't affect the overall light pollution, but get in your eyes
• Its is currently popular on social media which means its ruined for astronomers.   When I first went there around 2009, it was unknown.
• Open 365 days per year.  Panoche Hills is currently closed for ~6 months per year due to fire risk
  
  

Panoche Hills +

• Panoche Hills is probably darker than Pinnacles E or W by 1/2 Bortle class.
• Panoche Hills has a rather large parking area with over 150' of frontage that could easily be a "Telescope Row".
• The view from the parking area (not to mention miles of more isolated camping/observing spots like those shown by John below) is unobstructed by trees or topography right down to the horizon (and its really dark in that direction).
• Currently not popular with campers; social media have ruined Laguna Mtn for astronomers.  On the negative, the parking area is on the main access road and a few cars do drive by.

Hope this helps.   My next dark sky night will likely be from Panoche Hills due to access and lack of civillian competition.

Clears

Chris

[Christopher Kelly]

Thanks John for posting the video.   I haven't been there during daylight in years; I guess the impetus for going further along P1 is that you can maybe get darker, and less windy? with only a slight loss of N sky.  Its worth more exploration, do you agree?

Clears

Chris  

[Akarsh Simha]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 12:28 Christopher Kelly <tyg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Akarsh...

"I read your report with great interest. I’ll do some more research on Panoche hills, but did I read your email correctly, that Laguna is a tad darker than Panoche? If so what advantage does Panoche confer over Laguna?"

Laguna Mountain +

• Laguna is a clearly darker, abut 1/2 to 1 Bortle Class depending on the sky brightness model.   For visual astronomers this is definitely a plus, and makes even a 4-inch refractor give excellent deep sky views.
• Unlike Laguna Mountain or Jade Mill, Panoche is rather exposed (potentially windy) and there are exposed street lights miles away to the north (which I take to be the Los Banos corridor) which don't affect the overall light pollution, but get in your eyes
• Its is currently popular on social media which means its ruined for astronomers.   When I first went there around 2009, it was unknown.
• Open 365 days per year.  Panoche Hills is currently closed for ~6 months per year due to fire risk
  
  

Panoche Hills +

• Panoche Hills is probably darker than Pinnacles E or W by 1/2 Bortle class.
• Panoche Hills has a rather large parking area with over 150' of frontage that could easily be a "Telescope Row".
• The view from the parking area (not to mention miles of more isolated camping/observing spots like those shown by John below) is unobstructed by trees or topography right down to the horizon (and its really dark in that direction).
• Currently not popular with campers; social media have ruined Laguna Mtn for astronomers.  On the negative, the parking area is on the main access road and a few cars do drive by.

Hope this helps.   My next dark sky night will likely be from Panoche Hills due to access and lack of civillian competition.

Hey Chris

Thanks for this very comprehensive write up.

I’m not sure why the Laguna Mtn being popular on social media is a dealbreaker for astronomy? I imagine it is typical for most camper activity to die down by around midnight, and even then, like I mentioned there are a few spots to set up away from campers. So I would lean towards Laguna if it has darker skies and if I have to put up with some light interference at both places...

But sounds like you had a pretty bad experience. Were there blaring lights and loud music or something?

Regards

Akarsh

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[John Pierce]

additional downsides to Panoche Hills, the afternoon I visited, there were probably 30 parties scattered about practicing with large bore firearms.   I'd hate to pull an all nighter there, curl up in my trailer to catch some zzzs and be woken by target shooters.  Now, all the shooters I saw were practicing good range safety, had spotters, and were calling clear and such, but they were firing some large bore rifles that were quite loud.

it gets very windy and when its windy, rather dusty.   I don't know if there are times of the year when this varies.  I was there in late may and it was quite chilly in the afternoon.

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[Christopher Kelly]

Hi Akarsh.

No folks were well behaved but still turning on lights.   If the clouds had cooperated I would have set up in the parking lot to the Laguna Mtn Trailhead.  

The issue was it was essentially the last place to set up.   There were people camping on the access road it was so crowded (I would also be fearful of COVID-19 as I have risk factors).   Same thing at the Sweetwater Trailhead, and yes most of Jade Mill and Oak Flat campgrounds were in use.  My wife says its because of COVID-19, but If you look up Laguna Mtn on google maps and compare ratings, its clear.  People, like us do research online by ratings, and go where the ratings are highest.  Same thing for Prewitt Ridge in the Los Padres NF which has been similarly ruined by social media.  

To me none of the camp sites at the Sweetwater Trailhead campground are suitable due to trees.  At Laguna Mountain Campground Trailhead there are two viable campsites, #1 and the walk-in campsite.  If I can get one of the viable campsites, and its clear I'll put up with "civilians",   but I prefer not to set up on a congested road, which could be a deal breaker for a larger scope.  Like anybody else I would prefer an actual camping spot.  There is just too much competition for resources on the weekend especially if I have to schlep my scope into my car and drive for 2.5 hours just to observe.  Its really deflating to drive 100+ miles and have to compete for a place to set up.

FWIW, if we can get an astronomy only permit in the summer for Panoche Hills, we won't need to compete with the "rabble" for 6 months out of the year.

Maybe I'm too demanding.....

Chris

[John Pierce]

oh, re Panoche, here's some slightly overexposed(*) drone video I shot from the Kiosk/visitors area.   most of it is looking off to the south and panning around

https://youtu.be/J_l-d4tShm0

but starting at about 4:25,

https://youtu.be/J_l-d4tShm0?t=264

the camera takes in the parking lot area, initially from below the grade of the lot, then it climbs some.

(* somehow I'd set the drone to EV +1.5 without realizing it... took me a few vids to realize everything was washed out, before i found the setting and fixed it)

[Akarsh Simha]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 14:07 Christopher Kelly <tyg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Akarsh.

No folks were well behaved but still turning on lights.   If the clouds had cooperated I would have set up in the parking lot to the Laguna Mtn Trailhead.  

The issue was it was essentially the last place to set up.   There were people camping on the access road it was so crowded (I would also be fearful of COVID-19 as I have risk factors).   Same thing at the Sweetwater Trailhead, and yes most of Jade Mill and Oak Flat campgrounds were in use.  My wife says its because of COVID-19, but If you look up Laguna Mtn on google maps and compare ratings, its clear.  People, like us do research online by ratings, and go where the ratings are highest.  Same thing for Prewitt Ridge in the Los Padres NF which has been similarly ruined by social media.  

Whoa! That sounds absurd that people were camping on the access roads!

So the plan of the dark side is clear now right? We TACos get together and make sure we give Laguna Mountain a consistent 1-star rating :-D

Regards

Akarsh

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[RBA]

Panoche Hills +

• Currently not popular with campers

 

True that' it's not exactly a "popular" spot for campers, however, a couple of years ago or so I was imaging at the scenic viewpoint (where the bathroom and the picnic table are), then two vehicles arrived and had a small gathering there, with lights, music and what not... Last time I was there, last week (the night after Chris and I ran into each other) there were two guys just chilling well after dark, but they were good about the lights and only were "annoying" for half a minute when they took off... Point being, at that particular spot there's always the risk of not being only with astro-friendly folks....

I've also seen some peculiar astronomy groups gathering there (like one group that assisted Calstar a couple of years ago), but rarely anyone from TAC. When that happens, that area suddenly becomes very small because, well, it's not that big to begin with. I haven't seen any of those groups up there for a while, but after that incident with the local party goers, I rarely use that area and instead, drive off-road a couple of miles ahead. There are many usable spots totally manageable even with a low-clearance 2wd but anyone planning on that should definitely scout the area in daylight, and just find a drivable spot far enough from the road so even a rare passing car's lights wouldn't bother you.

BTW, a couple of times that I was at one of those spots off the road, I heard folks shooting in the middle of the night. And from the sound of it, they were hitting their targets (a bang quickly followed by a clonk). FYI. Both times they were at it for about 90 minutes or so. The last time was this year, just 2-3 weeks ago (yes, I'm quietly active as you can see).

Cheers,

RBA

 

[John Pierce]

On Fri, Feb 12, 2021 at 7:15 PM RBA <r...@deepskycolors.com> wrote:

Panoche Hills +

 

There are many usable spots totally manageable even with a low-clearance 2wd but anyone planning on that should definitely scout the area in daylight, and just find a drivable spot far enough from the road so even a rare passing car's lights wouldn't bother you.

when I was talking with the BLM rangers in charge of that area, they were quite adamant that vehicles can only use NAMED/numbered roads and stay within 15 feet..   there's lots of tire tracks that are NOT legit roads, and they are trying to discourage use of these.   My driving video started on road P12 heading back towards P1 and then P1 back to the Kiosk area.  For reference, here's the BLM map.

https://www.blm.gov/sites/blm.gov/files/documents/files/Panoche_Tumey_Griswold20181116%28508%29.pdf

If the road is not designated on that, you're not supposed to drive on it.

[RBA]

So basically one can set up at a spot next to a BLM road but away from the main access (county) road.

Yeah, that's exactly what I've personally been doing, though my description was more permissive than that, so thanks for clarifying.

Cheers,

RBA

 

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[Peter Natscher]

Hi Chris,

Is being set up at the top of the Panoche Hills expose you to a lot of valley light domes, i.e. Merced and Fresno lights?  This would interfere with the area's darkness. I notice in the John Pierce P1/P12 video that the valley is clearly seen.

[Christopher Kelly]

Not too dark.  I have posted on Campendium.com that in spite of the 3-4 star ratings provided for Laguna Mtn, that weekends the area is now overrun (gave it 1 *).   Hopefully it can save folks some driving.   Camping with my car pulled just off the access road is not my idea of camping, its a bivouac.   And you know what they say about bivouacs...

Noticed it happening more often a few years back when Yosemite was closed due to fires. 

Chris

[Christopher Kelly]

John thanks for reminding me about the map.   Usually I refer to the BLM maps, and the USNF MVUMs as they are a great resource.

Seems to me that there are a lot of "named" roads or tracks that one can try to gain astronomy solitude.  That being said, I have not tried the Tumey Hills area as I haven't looked at the map in some time.   Comparing it to the 2016 Light Pollution Map, around there if you stay within San Benito County, you are in the darker Bortle 3, i.e. a shade darker than Panoche Hills.  There are lots of "named" roads in the Tumey Hills that might be viable for astronomy solitude.

Have you been there?

Chris

[Christopher Kelly]

Hey Peter, Rogelio could also chime in...  so Merced would be due east or so, and Fresno was south east but I did not notice any obvious light domes from either town.   To the north I did see some bright valley lights (Rt 152 in Los Banos) but again no obvious domes.  Maybe the horizon lights just made it a bit difficult to see the effect on the sky brightness. 

If they are too obnoxious (at this Bortle scale, even Venus or Jupiter is obnoxious), it would make sense to put your car or a screen between them and your scope.

Chris

[Christopher Kelly]

John, I looked at your link, and I was able to trace on the map you were on P12?

 And then 'cause I'm not out observing I traced all along the P1 and compared the location to the 2016 Atlas of Sky Brightness.   It looks like we could gain the Holy Graiil of 2-3 or so Bortle rating just by crossing the county line back into San Benito County to this area or so, at this cross road and still be on a "named road"

https://goo.gl/maps/TAiysZRutY5VWkRg7

What do you think?

Chris

On Friday, February 12, 2021 at 2:47:20 AM UTC-8 jhn.p...@gmail.com wrote:

[John Pierce]

On Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 12:43 AM Christopher Kelly <tyg...@gmail.com> wrote:

John, I looked at your link, and I was able to trace on the map you were on P12?

Yes, my driving video was eastbound on p12 and then northbound on P1.

 And then 'cause I'm not out observing I traced all along the P1 and compared the location to the 2016 Atlas of Sky Brightness.   It looks like we could gain the Holy Graiil of 2-3 or so Bortle rating just by crossing the county line back into San Benito County to this area or so, at this cross road and still be on a "named road"

https://goo.gl/maps/TAiysZRutY5VWkRg7

What do you think?

That link seems to be middle of nowhere north of the pinnacles?

[Peter Natscher]

When judging Bortle values from those Dark Skies maps, how reliable are they?  How old is the database and images?  Light pollution from cities and housing has grown and expanded a lot the past 10 years.  Being"right over the Bortle line" doesn't make sense. For example, I find LSA not as dark as it was 10 years ago because of the growth of the surrounding towns and cities during that amount of time.

[Peter Natscher]

Dark Sky Light Map of Panoche Hills and neighboring cities/towns.

[Akarsh Simha]

Laguna is pretty much in the horizontal center of that dark blue zone.

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[Christopher Kelly]

In older light pollution maps, it was a light grey area I called "the Key Hole".  It became really attractive to me in 2004 when I had a December all-nighter in the Clear Creek Management Area which is smack dab in the middle of the dark zone.  I did a 2005 Messier Marathon (NP 101 only!) from a camp area in the Clear Creek (CCMA) which is now closed, but you can still observe from Jade Mill Campground, and it remains very dark. Feb 6 on my "odyssey" I setup at the gate closure to the CCMA only to get skunked by a sucker hole.   But at least people are not driving through the gate closure. 

Clears   - looking forward to March in the Panoche Hills.

Chris

[Peter Natscher]

Chris,

I would like to try out the Panoche Hills in March for observing during a week night, not the weekend.  So keep me or us informed with a OI if you would like company.  Probably fewer visitors there during the week which is my preference.  My current favorite site Pinnacles NP,  because it's only an hour's drive for me, is a lot less busy during the week versus the weekend.  I usually choose to go to Pinnacles West during the week.

From my location in Monterey, it's would be two-hour drive for me to either Panoche Hills or the darker Lake San Antonio.  During the winter, LSA is a lot colder at night, near freezing and frost.

[Christopher Kelly]

Will do.   COVID is still bad, so the family get together at North Rim of Grand Canyon is probably off for March.   Then there is the possibility that I may just work remotely in the Airstream for a week or so around new moon at Panoche Hills.

Clears

Chris

[Tan usa1]

Oh boy. Clear creek. We also went there once. Every single campsite was taken. And then I started exploring, and found a campground on a hill with around 50 individual camping sites, toilets and a couple of camping sites very clear from the trees. Best part, even though it was sedan accessible, there was nobody there. Just our group of 3 cars (one of which was the sedan). 

As for Panoche hills, if you drive straight ahead from the paved toilet area and keep driving some on the dirt road, you come to a section where you get good 4G on AT&T. So if your imaging rig needs to talk to something, its there. Clear creek is a dead zone, so this is a bit better for imagers. 

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[Christopher Kelly]

Hi Tanveer......that trip to Clear Creek was recent, right?    Very dark place...but the high hills are otherwise off limits due to the asbestos risk.     Sounds like you went to Jade Mill campground?

Chris

[Tan usa1]

Did not see any names there. We were about a mile from the main road, and it did not seem any different from the other campgrounds on the way. No mines nearby (though driving ahead would bring you to the mine area I guess?

So no idea where we went, just that it was empty and couple of campsites had great open skies instead of trees

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