Reverting Back To V3

[Steve R]

Hey Hans, hope you are doing well man. Despite all this negative feedback I firstly just want to thank you for continuing to take the time to listen to us and continuing to develop this extension. I am someone who has been using session buddy for the last 7 years of my life, it has become a crucial part of my internet browsing routine and has been integrated into my workflow. Now I know chrome won't support manifest v2 extensions anymore starting June 2024 but as an enterprise user i've got until June 2025. Is there anyway at all that you could send me the older update so I can sideload it and continue to use v3, I do not see myself getting used to this new UI and functionality unfortunately and the only solution I see here is to somehow get V3 back. 

Maybe you can so kindly consider doing the minor changes so it follows manifest v3 rules and then re-releasing the older update as Session Buddy V3 edition or something? I would more than gladly be willing to pay you a monthly subscription just to use that extension if you'd be willing to do this, honestly i'm thousands of others will also be interested seeing that 95% of users are unsatisfied with this new interface with dark mode being the only positive thing.

[capaz]

Hi Steve, I'm just a fellow user, so my thoughts likely aren't especially important, but one thing that you wrote made me smile...

First, I acknowledge that your request to Hans seems very appreciative, respectful, and relatively reasonable, unlike the horrible flood of rude, ranting, and demanding posts since the update.

Hower, there is one thing in common...

seeing that 95% of users are unsatisfied with this new interface with dark mode being the only positive thing.

 

That's the part that made me smile. Variations of that claim have been made repeatedly; some bits are probably even present in the majority of new posts, but I've not before seen it simplified and quantified to that level of precision and certainty.

So, I ask you to please understand that this is not aimed at you personally, but that I'm just taking an opportunity to address that particular idea.

Some relevent points:

• according to Chrome Web Store, Session Buddy has had (over time) about a million users.
• any piece of software as complex or feature-rich as SB will in fact be used in a multitude of ways by different users --  a multitude of use cases, usage styles, subsets of features used, settings preferences, etc.,etc.
• when we've used something as good as SB for so long (about 12 years for me), become dependent on it, and ingrained in our own experience of it, it's easy to start to assume that those multitudes of things are actually very few and largely aligned with our own.
• sure, the user interface has changed quite a bit, but as can be seen in the Session Buddy v4 Announcement and the frequently updated Session Buddy v4 FAQ, the bulk of changes are anything but merely superficial. they are quite substantive in terms of paradigm & user experience; adding new features, improving or enhancing (ok, that's subjective ;-) ) old features, deprecating yet others, and laying a solid foundation for future changes (improvements? ;-) ) to come.
• I think it's clear that software users who are unhappy with a change (compared to those who are pleased or indifferent) are more inclined to come to the forum for the first time and express their unhappiness, request rollbacks, etc., and that the more unhappy they are, the more likely that they are to overcome inertia, etc., and put in the effort necessary to actually come here and log their thoughts and feelings.  I think it's also clear that the corresponding thing doesn't generally happen with the users who are neutral, moderately happy, or even very happy, with the change.

I, and many people I know, are mostly thrilled with the new version, as it brings functionality that we have been wishing for for years and hints at future additional functionality that we would really welcome.  Are there bits that we wish were different about the new version?  Of course.  But, we've read the information provided, and put in the small amount of effort required to know what's changed, how it's changed, (maybe even why it's changed) and then adapted to new ways of doing certain things (yes, sometimes mourning the loss of some of the old ways), using the tool as it now is.  Except for me, none of those folks have come to the forum to post.  Do I think that 95% of SB users are of the same mind?  Of course not.  As far as I know, we could be in a small or tiny minority.  The point is that there's no compelling evidence either way, and their are lots of reasons (see above) to doubt certain things that we may think of as evidence.

I think that the topic name on this thread is something that might draw a few current and/or new forum users, so I'm taking an opportunity to hopefully propose a reality check, or at least an alternative perspective worth considering.

Cheers,

-tom

[Session Buddy Support]

The imminent deprecation is WebSQL more so than Manifest v3. Support for that ends May 28 and SB v3 will consequently stop working after that date even on older versions of Chrome.

Adjusting for these deprecations requires a substantial effort in both cases. Seems like that effort is better spent on continuing to refine v4, a process that has been heavily influenced by feedback from passionate v3 users like yourself. Why not join the conversation and share your ideas on how to make v4 better.

Thanks,

Hans

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 9:42 AM Steve R <syrin...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey Hans, hope you are doing well man. Despite all this negative feedback I firstly just want to thank you for continuing to take the time to listen to us and continuing to develop this extension. I am someone who has been using session buddy for the last 7 years of my life, it has become a crucial part of my internet browsing routine and has been integrated into my workflow. Now I know chrome won't support manifest v2 extensions anymore starting June 2024 but as an enterprise user i've got until June 2025. Is there anyway at all that you could send me the older update so I can sideload it and continue to use v3, I do not see myself getting used to this new UI and functionality unfortunately and the only solution I see here is to somehow get V3 back. 

Maybe you can so kindly consider doing the minor changes so it follows manifest v3 rules and then re-releasing the older update as Session Buddy V3 edition or something? I would more than gladly be willing to pay you a monthly subscription just to use that extension if you'd be willing to do this, honestly i'm thousands of others will also be interested seeing that 95% of users are unsatisfied with this new interface with dark mode being the only positive thing.

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[steve rogers]

Hello there Hans, thank you so much for responding. I understand that WebSQL is being depreciated in Chrome v124 but how will session buddy v3 stop working in older versions of chrome then? Now you have me seriously worried sick to my stomach as I thought that I would still be able to continue using v3 with an older version of chrome. 
I really appreciate your efforts to fix v4 and make it as great as v3, I am more than willing to continue testing v4 out and submitting detailed reports on how it can be improved but in the meantime for the time being it is crucial for my workflow to continue using v3 for my main chrome profile. May I ask why you don't make the v3 code open source? If you don't have the time to make the extension use IndexedDB then perhaps the community can help out with this. Please just hear me out here, I understand it is not my place to say or ask this but I am literally begging you out of desperation as someone who found your extension so useful and integrated into their daily both personal and work life. Your extension was actually the only reason I even used chrome. 
V4 is vastly different compared to v3, sure in terms of functionality it might have alot of similarities but the UI/UX is a complete rewrite. I much preferred the older classic layout and design along with the user interface. Everything from how the previous sessions and saved sessions functioned, exported, edited, organized and displayed. I have really give v4 a fair chance, I do not mind using it as a separate extension alongside v3 but my goal would be to somehow keep using v3. I'd hate to pay a random developer on fiver to make this happen and i'd much rather pay you instead so please tell me how we can work on this to make it possible. 

[steve rogers]

Thanks for this detailed response Capaz, appreciate you. To clarify when I said that 95% of users are unsatisfied I thought it was pretty clear that it was an exaggeration, however I think if the developer was to make a poll which I think he should on whether users preferred v3 or v4, I am almost positive that the majority will pick v3. 

[Session Buddy Support]

>  how will session buddy v3 stop working in older versions of chrome then? 

Because SB has been using a deprecation trial. Read more here:

https://developer.chrome.com/blog/deprecating-web-sql

https://developer.chrome.com/origintrials/#/view_trial/494270059103911937

> please tell me how we can work on this to make it possible

I don't think I made myself very clear when I wrote "Adjusting for these deprecations requires a substantial effort in both cases." We're talking months in both cases.

Hans

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sessionbuddy-discuss/ec139591-121c-49e2-9fb5-7d7fd2d55f87n%40googlegroups.com.

[steve rogers]

Can't I just register for my own origins trial here https://developer.chrome.com/origintrials/#/view_trial/494270059103911937 to circumvent this? 

> I don't think I made myself very clear when I wrote "Adjusting for these deprecations requires a substantial effort in both cases." We're talking months in both cases.

I honestly don't mind waiting months, I understand v4 is priority tho and by all means there is no rush. How much money would I have to donate in order for you to consider doing this? 

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[Session Buddy Support]

> I understand v4 is priority

Yep and will be indefinitely.

Cheers,

Hans

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sessionbuddy-discuss/CAF-RauqgJqHL4OCpgRxcPa%2Bj0STVn1fEOCNzUh5fws%3DM7wB2cw%40mail.gmail.com.

[steve rogers]

Hey Hans, thanks for replying.

It’s very heart breaking to hear but it is not my place to say after all. 

 

I’m assuming you wouldn’t be willing to make the source code for v3 available either since people could make money off it but what if we had some sort of agreement for it to not be monetized? 

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[Mohammad Noor]

Hello Hans, I hope you're doing well. I want to echo Steve's sentiments in thanking you for your ongoing commitment to Session Buddy and for considering user feedback during the development process. I understand that Session Buddy v3 faces challenges with the imminent deprecation of WebSQL in Chrome, and the effort required to adjust for these changes is substantial. However, like Steve, I've also found Session Buddy v3 to be an integral part of my browsing routine, and I share his concerns about transitioning to v4. While I appreciate the improvements and new features introduced in v4, I must admit that the UI/UX changes have been difficult to adapt to, and I'm not alone in this sentiment. Steve's suggestion of making the source code for v3 available or creating a separate extension based on v3 resonates with many users who have grown accustomed to its functionality and design. I understand the complexities involved in such decisions, especially regarding potential monetization concerns. However, perhaps there could be an agreement in place to prevent the monetization of v3's source code, ensuring that it remains accessible to users who rely on its features. Additionally, I'm willing to contribute to any efforts aimed at preserving v3's functionality, whether through testing, feedback, or financial support. I believe many users, like myself and Steve, would appreciate the opportunity to continue using v3 or a similar iteration thereof. Thank you for considering our perspectives and for your continued dedication to Session Buddy.

[Session Buddy Support]

Thanks Mohammad. I appreciate your point of view and the way you've expressed it.

My concern is not so much about monetization. The SB v3 codebase has a lot of problems. The rewrite was necessary for many reasons, many of which people are unaware of. Trying to preserve the old codebase or build upon it is an endeavour fraught with technical challenges much larger in scope than you realize. You would inevitably end up rewriting it in the end and realize that creating something from scratch would have been easier. Keeping it around would keep folks dependent on an old piece of technology that has a lot of pain points and functional gaps with no practical way to meaningfully extend it and an expensive and slow maintenance cycle.

Additionally, having 2 versions of SB will just cause confusion and ultimately impede our ability to provide the best tab manager experience to the majority of our users.

I'm curious, can you highlight what you believe to be the most compelling v3 use cases that are impossible in v4 in its current or future form say, 6 months from now?

Thanks for your understanding,

Hans

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sessionbuddy-discuss/1c74e1d4-a9e1-4b1b-b246-dcc8ca21110an%40googlegroups.com.

[Session Buddy Support]

> a separate extension based on v3 resonates with many users

Out of curiosity, what % of users do you believe that is?

Hans

On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 1:37 PM Mohammad Noor <mohamma...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Our Free Society]

I don't want to assume anything & I don't know Hans at all, but he seems like a nice man.

Saying that, if you don't already know we are in a war (WWIII) & have been since March 2020, then you won't understand what's going on. 

Every single company I deal with minus the odd micro or very small company, has CHANGED their software since the war started.

This is so the evil AI that the evils use to control us will be able to access all of our data. That's why you are seeing every site switching from regular email or ticketing software to the terrible bots that try to STOP YOU from getting a live Human Being. We ARE being killed off both physically & Spiritually & that's a FACT. 

For people who don't like being Human, this will be no biggy & they will embrace transhumanism - GROSS, but for those of us who maybe don't like being Human, but know that murder & attacking our soul goes against Natural Law & is WRONG, won't put up with this.

These companies have RUSHED to remove any access to older software & I saw this happen when KILL BILL came out with Win 10. Within a few years I was told by vendors I had used for years that they would NOT support Win 7. What???? Are you kidding me???? It was clear he had told them ALL what to say to their customers because they ALL said pretty much the same thing.

I've been on line since around win 3.1 (sort of), & NEVER EVER in all of these years have I been forced off of an OS or piece of software within a few years of a new version launching.

I was furious of course & then very suspicious as to WHY they were forcing us to move to Win 10 & I refused to switch.

I already know all about the spying & it's gotten way worse then it was pre-911. The entire INTERNET is spied on by their evil AI & I'm NOT talking about the baby Chat GPT they put out there to make low IQ people think that AI is just a tool to help you & it's not a threat. SMH

Plus, companies started creating NEW software that wouldn't work on Win 7 instead of just tweaking their software to INCLUDE Win 10. Now WHY would they do that? They initially had to rush to tweak it to work with Win 10, why not just keep it as is?

I've been told over & over again that I HAVE to switch to Win 10 & that their software won't work on Win 7.

I've been laughed at by low IQ people in the tech space, & of course told the same brainwashing thing over & over again that win 7 isn't safe. When people listen to lies & hear others speak lies, they believe it to be True which is why most people are followers & parrots & can't think or speak on their own.

I'm now being FORCED to upgrade to Thunderbird which JUST came out with a new version & I don't mean a small version, but a HUGE version. 

If they had done this pre-scamdemic, sure I wouldn't have thought of anything & updated. 

But considering they just launched this now along with TONS of other companies that somehow found the money to revamp their entire software during the imprisonment WORLDWIDE when offline companies were being forced to close down (unless they were owned by the evils) & eventually went bankrupt, & people were out of work I'm once again very suspicious. I'm sure you know how expensive & time consuming it is to redo a huge piece of software.

I'm not focusing only on TB, like I said, most of the software I use has done this which in & of itself is evidence. I've NEVER experienced tons of software doing the same thing all within a 2-3 year period & like I said, I've been online for a long time. Full time since '96.

People really need to WAKE UP to what is going on out there. I have tons of evidence for those with brains who don't ignore REALITY.

As for Hans, I'm not saying this is what he's doing & I appreciate his kindness, but I do question why we can't go back to the old version.

I haven't had time to check out the new version other than I don't see the numerous instances of my saved windows on the left side like on Vs 3. I only see one. I assume I just don't know where to look (I hope).

[Annie Bibi]

Dear Hans,

I hope this message finds you well. I'm reaching out to you regarding an urgent matter concerning Session Buddy v3, an extension that has become an indispensable tool in my browsing experience.

As you may be aware, recent developments, including the deprecation of WebSQL and the transition to Manifest v3, pose significant challenges for users like myself who rely heavily on Session Buddy v3 for its functionality and convenience. In light of these changes, I'm exploring alternative solutions to ensure the continued availability and usability of the extension for legacy users like myself.

With this in mind, I'm kindly requesting your consideration of two potential options:

1. Private Version for Legacy Users: Would you be willing to create a private version of Session Buddy v3 specifically tailored for legacy users? This version would retain the existing functionality of v3 while addressing compatibility issues arising from the deprecation of WebSQL and the transition to Manifest v3. This private version would be exclusively available to a select group of users who rely on v3 for their browsing needs.

2. Access to Source Code: Alternatively, if creating a private version is not feasible, would you be open to providing access to the source code for Session Buddy v3? By obtaining the source code, I intend to hire another developer to address the aforementioned compatibility issues and ensure the continued functionality of the extension. I assure you that this endeavor will be for personal and private use only, and I am more than willing to sign a legally binding agreement to that effect.

I understand that these requests may come as a surprise, and I want to assure you that my intentions are sincere and driven by a genuine desire to maintain access to Session Buddy v3 for myself and fellow legacy users. I deeply value the work you have put into developing and maintaining the extension over the years, and I am committed to finding a solution that respects your contributions while addressing the needs of the user community.

I would be more than happy to discuss these options further and address any concerns or questions you may have. Your cooperation and understanding in this matter would be greatly appreciated, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Warm regards,

Annie

[capaz]

I'm just a fellow user, so I obviously don't speak for Hans...  That said, earlier in this thread, here and here, Hans stated very clearly his position on preserving v3, providing the source code, etc.  He's obviously given this a lot of thought and seems quite firm on where he stands.  It seems to me that everyone's best option is to note his closing in that message ("Thanks for your understanding") and shift your energy into answering the question that he asked in that same message:

• I'm curious, can you highlight what you believe to be the most compelling v3 use cases that are impossible in v4 in its current or future form say, 6 months from now?

cheers,

-tom