Linux Console

[S.E. Mitchell]

If you have access to Linux (_not_ using WSL), how does TSE perform on
the Console (e.g., not in a terminal emulator).

I noticed that on Alpine Linux console, the so-called ECH control
sequence is not supported.
TSE tries to optimize screen writes, and if more than 8 spaces are
being written, then it uses the ECH sequence to write them, which
saves on the number of bytes sent. The impact is that the display,
where long strings of blanks are expected, won't have them.
In an Alpine Linux terminal, it works fine.

So just wondering if anyone is able to test on the Linux console. The
only two I have access to are Alpine and Arch. Works fine on Arch.

The messed up screen might look something like this:

[Carlo Hogeveen]

Can you elaborate on which minimum TSE version is required to test this?

Carlo

[Carlo Hogeveen]

OK, I installed TSE 4.50.13 on a vm of a Debian server, and in its console TSE worked fine.

Carlo

[Carlo Hogeveen]

I fired up my old obsolete Centos server, installed TSE 4.50.13 on it, and in its console TSE did not reproduce your error either.
That is it from me.

Carlo

[knud van eeden]

First test: Arch Linux: confirmed OK here too.

Started installing Arch first. 

Alpine to be checked some time in the coming time expected ...

with friendly greetings

Knud van Eeden

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[Guy Rouillier]

Seems to be working fine on Ubuntu MATE 24.04.3 LTS running natively (i.e.,
not in a VM). The only odd thing I observed, which I suppose is a judgment
call, is that when exiting, TSE does not clear the screen.

I switched from my starting X session to a full screen console using ctrl-alt-
f2. At that point, the screen is blank except for a logon prompt. I then
start TSE, and it fills the screen with the editor session, as I would expect.
If I then use alt-X to exit TSE, the screen continues to show TSE, and only
the bottom line is changed to the command prompt. Took me a minute to
understand what was happening; I at first thought the session was hung for
some reason.

Since this is visually confusing, I would suggest clearing the screen when
exiting the editor.

--
Guy Rouillier

[S.E. Mitchell]

Yep, I see the same thing on the Console also.
TSE uses "\033[?1049h" on startup to switch to the alternate screen
buffer, and then on exit issues "\033[?1049l" to switch back.
This effectively restores the screen to what was on it previously.
Except when it isn't supported :(
But how to tell if it is not supported? Hmmmm.
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[knud van eeden]

Second test: Alpine Linux: confirmed OK here 

with friendly greetings

Knud van Eeden

[knud van eeden]

OK, to look into the requested details further:

a. so I actually installed the full Arch Linux distribution in a Oracle VirtualBox virtual machine.

(the installation is pretty complicated, if not almost impossible to find the right steps if not using AI ChatGPT to guide the steps and actions).

And did run TSE ./e in a terminal xterm-256 color there.

No issues with the display thus as seen in the previously sent screenshot.

b so I actually installed the full Alpine Linux distribution in a Oracle VirtualBox virtual machine.

(note: the installation is very complicated, basically impossible to find the right steps if not using AI ChatGPT to guide the steps and actions).

And did run TSE ./e in a terminal xterm-256 color there.

No issues with the display thus as seen in the previously sent screenshot.

c. But carefully looking at what was requested, it is more likely that is asked for:

1. Run ANY non-WSL Linux distribution 

    (e.g. if so QUESTION: to reproduce which Linux distribution did you use to test with? Was it as usual Ubuntu?)

2. Have TSE ./e installed there on that Linux distribution

3. Then make sure the 'Arch terminal' is installed in your Linux distribution. Run that Alpine terminal and start TSE ./e there and report the result.

4. Then make sure the 'Alpine terminal' is installed in your Linux distribution. Run that Alpine terminal and start TSE ./e there and report the result.

QUESTION: Please confirm that step c 1, 2, 3, 4 is or was meant 

Otherwise clarify exactly your reproduction steps done.

Thanks

with friendly greetings

Knud van Eeden

On Friday, November 7, 2025 at 12:53:52 PM GMT+1, S.E. Mitchell <sammy.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

[S.E. Mitchell]

Linux has terminals, and linux also has a console.
WSL only is a terminal emulator, one can not run the linux console there.
The ask was to test in a linux console, not in xterm, not in kitty,
not in konsole, not in alacritty, not in any terminal emulator, but in
a true linux console.
Thanks!
--

[knud van eeden]

Reproduction

1. Use latest available TSE for Linux 4.50.13 clean installation download via the email link.

2. Run a full Linux Alpine (non-WSL) distribution in Oracle Virtual Box 

3. Install using the currently latest available

    alpine-standard-3.22.2-x86_64.iso

4. From the GUI quit all programs, by pressing <CtrlAlt F2> 

   to go to the 'Linux Console'

5. In the Linux console, login using e.g. 'root' and its password

6. cd to the TSE installation directory

    E.g.

     cd /home/johndoe/Downloads/tse/

7. Run TSE ./e

8. Conclusion: Not reproducible with these versions, everything OK.

9. Advice, because it is working here with those versions:

a. First install the Semware email download TSE for Linux version 4.50.13 so that we for sure both use the same TSE versions.

   Check if it reproduces. If yes then it is a 4.50.14 issue.

b. If not try to install the latest Linux Alpine 3.22.2 and check if it reproduces? If not then it is a Linux Alpine issue.

with friendly greetings

Knud van Eeden

Result: 

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[knud van eeden]

> If yes then it is a 4.50.14 issue.

should be

If not reproducing then it is a 4.50.14 issue.

===

Further are there or seem there to be very significant differences in the Linux Alpine versions.

For example I spent some 4 hours to get copy/paste from clipboard in Virtual Box for 

this Linux Alpine working and still only got it working a few times

(my workaround: take a snapshot of when it worked and restore that snapshot).

Reason: e.g. Oracle seems not to include the full Guest Additions CD with all programs

anymore in the latest version. But it is included it seems in earlier

version and should probably work there out of the box.

So in my opinion it is quite likely the version is relevant and a possible root cause for the 

seen TSE screen behavior.

[knud van eeden]

Here the result for 'Linux Arch' non-WSL

It works OK also here.

Reproduction

1. Use latest available TSE for Linux 4.50.13 clean installation download via the email link.

2. Run a full Linux Alpine (non-WSL) distribution in Oracle Virtual Box 

3. Install using the currently latest available

    archlinux-2025.11.01-x86_64.iso

4. From the GUI quit all programs, by pressing <CtrlAlt F2> 

   to go to the 'Linux Console'

5. In the Linux console, login using e.g. 'root' and its password

6. cd to the TSE installation directory

    E.g.

     cd /home/johndoe/Downloads/tse/

7. Run TSE ./e

8. Conclusion: Not reproducible here, everything OK.

[Louis Vonderscheer]

I am relatively new to linux, although I have a long history using Q and
TSE.  I was able to finally track down info on how to get to the console
in Pop!_OS (descended from umbuntu/debian - CtrlAltF1-CtrlAltF5).  TSE
opens normally, but there is some variation in the colors in full
screen.  Colors are basically the same, but less contrast?  If I use it
often, I would definitely pick new colors.  I do not see the blocks of
unfilled/black as your pic shows.  When I exit the editor TSE's info
block is left on screen, but everything else is cleared, and the prompt
appears in the lower left of the screen.  Nothing I see is a problem for
me.  I'd probably add a clear to the end of the alias I use to start TSE
if it bothered me.

fv

[S.E. Mitchell]

Thanks for testing!
I forgot to ask, what is the value of the TERM environment variable?
I think it is supposed to be "linux" for the console.
At least it is on the ones I tried.
You can see the value by doing this:
echo "$TERM"
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[Louis Vonderscheer]

(Oops, I meant this for the list)

The pertinent facts I left out:

first line of display when switching to console (CtrlAltF3) = Pop!_os
22.04LTS Popos tty3

TSE used :  The SemWare Editor (Linux) 4.50.13 - 2025 Sep 27 Internal
version: 12420

alias term='ps -p $(ps -o ppid= -p $$) -o comm=' results in "login"

echo "TERM" results in linux

in the normal terminal emulator:
    term= gnome-terminal-
    echo "$TERM" =  xterm-256color

I thought my alias was supposed to return the terminal info, but I'm
getting two different answers in each environment.
novice knowledge strikes again.

fv

[Carlo Hogeveen]

> I forgot to ask, what is the value of the TERM environment variable?

In both cases I tested (Debian and Centos servers) it is "linux".

Carlo

[knud van eeden]

> S.E. Mitchell  wrote:

Thanks for testing!

I forgot to ask, what is the value of the TERM environment variable?
I think it is supposed to be "linux" for the console.
At least it is on the ones I tried.
You can see the value by doing this:
echo "$TERM"

--

Yes, both Alpine and Arch where

tested with

echo $TERM

which showed

linux

(that command and its output linux can also be seen in each of the 2 first screenshots

of respectively Alpine and Arch whhich I sent.

This because it was asked to test in the 'Linux console' and that command echo $TERM

is the way to test if one is in the Linux console)

[Guy Rouillier]

On Sat, 2025-11-08 at 19:31 -0500, S.E. Mitchell wrote:
> Thanks for testing!
> I forgot to ask, what is the value of the TERM environment variable?
> I think it is supposed to be "linux" for the console.
> At least it is on the ones I tried.
> You can see the value by doing this:
> echo "$TERM"

In Ubuntu MATE 24.04 terminal in X,

echo $TERM > xterm-256color

In the console

echo $TERM > linux

--
Guy Rouillier

[knud van eeden]

Tested:

1. Linux Pop!_OS version 22.4 non-WSL

2. TSE 4.50.13 for Linux

3. In the Linux console, thus typing on the command line

 echo $TERM

gives

 linux

with friendly greetings

Knud van Eeden

On Friday, November 7, 2025 at 12:53:52 PM GMT+1, S.E. Mitchell <sammy.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

[knud van eeden]

Result example when running TSE e in the Linux console in Linux Pop!_OS 22.4 non-WSL

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/semware/874244891.6091225.1762687991591%40mail.yahoo.com.

[knud van eeden]

And after the usual exit from TSE this screen remains when back on the Linux console command line.

Expected: that screen should not remain.

[knud van eeden]

When starting TSE e from a Linux terminal, the colors are OK:

[knud van eeden]

I think that all these difference have to be resolved on the

Linux operating system level (e.g. by you as a user first giving some applicable (e.g. color and or font) commands and then running TSE).

TSE itself will I assume not be able to cover all these different situations

e.g. regarding color.

[H P]

Met vriendelijke groet,
With kind regards,

Muy atentamente,
Mit Freundliche Gruß,

Sinceramente,


H. Pikaar
Henri...@gmail.com

Sammy,

Jn Ubuntu 25.10

echo "$TERM" in terminal gives xterm-256color

echo "$TERM" in console gives linux

Op zo 9 nov 2025 om 12:49 schreef 'knud van eeden' via SemWare TSE Pro text editor <sem...@googlegroups.com>:

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[Guy Rouillier]

I was given the following sample code by Google Gemini when I asked about
restoring the screen content in OpenWatcom V2. In the console, it does *not*
restore the original screen, but it seems to reliably clear it. To me, that
is preferable to leaving the screen intact except for a command prompt at the
bottom as I described below, which left me wondering what the actual state of
the console was. So perhaps TSE can detect it is running in the console, and
use this instead:

====
#include <stdlib.h> // for atexit() and system()
#include <stdio.h>

// This function will be called on program exit
void clear_screen_on_exit() {
system("tput reset");
}

int main() {
// Register the cleanup function
atexit(clear_screen_on_exit);

// Display a message
printf("This program will clear the screen on exit.\n");
// Wait for user input to keep the program running
getchar();

return 0;
}
=====

--
Guy Rouillier

[Guy Rouillier]

Couldn't let this go. Indeed, TSE can differentiate where it is running.

===
include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <unistd.h>

const char * LINUX_TERM = "/dev/pts/";
const char * LINUX_CONSOLE = "/dev/tty";

int main() {
char *tty_name = ttyname(STDIN_FILENO);

if (tty_name) {
if (strncmp(LINUX_TERM, tty_name, strlen(LINUX_TERM)) == 0)
{
// /dev/pts/0
printf("Running on terminal: %s\n", tty_name);
} // end if
else {
if (strncmp(LINUX_CONSOLE, tty_name, strlen(LINUX_CONSOLE)) == 0)
{
// /dev/tty0
printf("Running on console: %s\n", tty_name);
} // end if
else
{
printf("Not running on either terminal or console: %s\n",
tty_name);
} // end else
} // end else
} else {
printf("Not connected to a terminal (input redirected or background
process).\n");
}
return 0;
}

===

[S.E. Mitchell]

Thanks Guy!
The current version is essentially doing this, e.g., if it thinks it
is on a console, it clears the screen at end.
But, it is only checking TERM=linux, to determine if it is on the console.
I bet checking for tty is more reliable, as TERM might be set incorrectly.
I will use this (tty) check instead.
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