H8 new boards update!

[norberto.collado koyado.com]

I think we are very close to have all boards updated to be able to create a reliable replicas of the H8 system. There is a new standalone H17 in the works that supports USB/2.5” floppy drives. I’m planning to have a new full size memory board that will support 512KB and it should work with all the Z80/8080A monitors along with the ORG0 circuit. I want to have all new boards full size to secure better the boards within the chassis.  

 

For the H8 extender board, I have in mind an H89 debug board to fix and operate the H89 boards on the H8 chassis, such as the serial port and disk controllers. 

 

This is in the works:

1. Full size H8-Compact flash. Will boot 4 drives (0,1,2,3). In debug as 8 bit mode failed. Reworking board. Picture attached!
2. Z67-SDC board. In build out mode.
3. 8080A CF boot card. Fully functional and waiting on Rick to release board to production.
4. H17 full size board with USB/2.5” floppy support
5. Full size memory board 512KB for 8080A and Z80 board.
6. Z180 board – redoing layout and using Trionyx 16 bit board as a reference. Thank you Ben.
7. H89 Serial Card in debug.
8. H89 debug board. Very Low priority.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

[Richard Davis Jr.]

Norbeto,

I believe the current 8080 dual CF is fully functional. Joe T and myself have been using it for months now. I have the original rev, not the one where you swapped the I/O activity and CF 2 activity LEDs.

I believe Joe T has built up a second board and will be testing today or tomorrow.

HDOS2, HDOS3, and CP/M now all boot without using a floppy.

CP/M supports 5 16MB CF drives and 3 H17 drives. CF drives are A-E and H17 are F-H.

Rick

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[Joseph Travis]

Norberto,

Is there any chance you might do a Dual CF board for the H89?  I'll be first in line for 2 of them!

Thanks,

Joe

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[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

Rick: how did you get to boot without floppy?  That seemed like the hard part?  Since you want to run on an 8080  you can’t use PAM-37 or Magnolia ROMs?  So did you add a boot capability to the XCON-8 ROM??  As I understand it, the reason we’ve centered on the Z67IDE approach is because that’s what Heath and Magnolia baked into their ROMs…

 

You’ve done an amazing job on this board!

 

If I understand correctly the advantages to this board (vs. say the Z67-IDE+ approach) are (please correct me if I'm wrong):

 

• 8080 support
• All functionality on a single board
• Support for up to 4 CF cards (using two per CF-to-IDE converter)
• Others…?

 

Douglas might be able to help with CP/M3 support if he had the information needed for his emulator…

 

• Glenn

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[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

Norberto: thanks for the update.  What’s the difference between #1 and #3 in your list?  Aren’t these both “Rick’s” CF board?

 

Has the H8-Z5-4 Serial Console & Cassette IO V1.0 been released yet? I don’t see it on Todd’s list yet so perhaps the ball is in his court?

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

What’s the difference between #1 and #3 in your list? 

 

#1 connects to the Heath H67 controller. Attached is a picture:

 

 

It is an update from the original Z67-IDE board that only runs at 4Mhz. I had to rework the board to get 16 bit communications as 8 bit setup failed.

 

The board is fully functional, just that the CF cards needs to be reconfigured for 16 bit transfers. It can be inside the H8 chassis or outside on its own chassis.

 

Thanks,

Norberto

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Glenn,

I wrote a small app that utilizes the front panel that allows you to select the cf and disk 16m volume to boot from and reads the boot code and then executes it. The app is in h8t format and you load it via serial and the monitor load command.

Rick

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Glenn,

Also, right now i only support two cf cards, both master.

Rick

[Glenn Roberts]

Thanks. Sounds like there’s still a lot of development going on on a number of fronts. At some point I’m happy to help document the options once things settle down a bit…

Sent from my iPad

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Rick,

I will like to order the new board to do a quick checkout. Can you send me the latest files on how to get HDOS/CPM booting on such board? Also, I will need the HDOS 2.0/HDOS 3.0, and CP/M images to make it easy to boot. In addition, I will need the H8T bootstrap file to get this board working at my end. I do not have such information on the website.

Thanks,

Norberto

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From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Richard Davis Jr. <rickdav...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2022 1:58 PM
To: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Also, I forgot on the list that I'm working on the new 8080A board with same capabilities as in the Z80 V4.0 board. I'm using the same schematic as in the Heath 8080A board with some minor additions.

I already have the CPU and the hard-to-get components. I started the layout and it is going to take a while. It is a winter x-mas project to finalize layout.

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From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of norberto.collado koyado.com <norberto...@koyado.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2022 3:16 PM

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Hello Joe,

We can use same design from Rick's board to make it easy. What I/O address the board should use as the H89 I/O space is limited? 

Ricks board uses 110Q and 114Q as it has two controllers. I think for the H89 one controller should be fine due to the limited space. 

Norberto

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From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Joseph Travis <jtravi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2022 12:07 PM

To: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [sebhc] H8 new boards update!

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[Douglas Miller]

I thought the new CF boards were going to be direct-connect to be simpler (more like the GIDE but even simpler). Has that plan changed?

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[Joseph Travis]

Hi Norberto,

Since the H89 already has decoded I/O Port Selects, why not just have a jumper on the board to allow the user to select which one?  

BR,

Joe

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Douglas,

 

I was not able to get the 8 bit setup to work. I had to go back to original design with the 8255 IC.

 

Norberto

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

On the H89, the possible address are:

 

174Q, 274Q, 170Q, 274Q. The serial I/O ports cannot be used. For this board 270Q and 274Q could be used.

 

Norberto

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[Douglas Miller]

This was on the Z67-IDE? Or are you saying that the H8 bus control signals do not meet the timing (we haven't got the timing right yet)? It should be possible to directly connect the to CF, that is done on other platforms, even at faster CPU speeds.

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

You have a point as it was on the Z67-IDE board. Attached are the schematics and simplified board.

 

Check them out to be correct as this has to work to avoid overhead in debugging such board.

 

Norberto

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Norbeto,

Attached is an H8D and readme file.

This is for HDOS.

The drivers and instructions are identical for HDOS2 and HDOS2.

If the board works with HDOS it will work for CP/M.

Rick

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[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

I look forward to trying this board out once it’s available.  Perhaps install it in my original 8080-based H8 system from Way Back When, which I’ve kept pretty pristine all these years… 

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

The dual CF is working at 4MHz clock with the Z-H8. I can boot CP/M or HDOS3 at 4MHz.

Floppies won't work but that's the whole idea of the dual CF. No floppies required.

Rick

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[Douglas Miller]

This looks about what I'd expect.

Some general questions, though, about the data bus buffer(s). First, I see you have two data bus buffers and I'm wondering why. Second, the first DB buffer (connected to the H8 bus) is driven by WR, while the second (and the CPU board's buffer) is driven by RD. I believe the correct way to do this is by RD, as that preserves the CPU's write hold time for data. Otherwise, you risk race conditions on latching the data at the peripheral chip (CF). I'm thinking that two DB buffers makes this worse, especially with one triggered off RD and the other off WR. Not to mention the extra propagation delays through the second set of buffers.

Looking at the original H8 8080 CPU board, it appears that the CPU DB buffer is driven off RD (which I believe is correct). I can't tell what the Z80 v4 board does.

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Both Data buffers are driven by the RD signal. U10A pin 4 “SSI-DIR” is a combination of “BRD_SEL + BRDL”. The “BWRL” on pin 1 of U10A is not doing anything at all as the state is driving by the “B02” signal. I can eliminate U2 buffer, but I think the CF card bus cannot be expanded by adding an IDE cable.

 

Let me know if I should eliminate U2. I will delete BWRL pin 1 of U10A as it is not doing anything.

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Rick,

 

Is the .H8T file included in the H8D image? How I get CP/M to work with this board? Any instructions?

 

I will continue to work with Douglas on the Simplified version of this board to boot with CP/M3. Once the simplified board is working, then I will need your help to get it working with HDOS2/3 and Heath CP/M.

 

Thanks for all your help and updated website with the attached file.

 

Norberto

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

The zip file should have the h8t booter. I will check it.

I need to check the instructions I sent before sending CP/M stuff.

Rick

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Norbeto,

I missed it.

Attached.

Rick

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Thanks and added to webserver. 😊

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

  Norbeto,

Here is the CP/M disk boot disk. Version 2.2.04.

You must prepare and create CP/M partitions as specified in the doc I already sent you.

I will forward the email I sent to Joe T for the CP/M booter and instructions.

Rick

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[Douglas Miller]

I can't fully tell when the enable pin on U2 is active, so am still not sure of the timing. Does the 74HC245  have different drive capabilities than the 74HCT640? Is there something else on the Dx+ lines besides U2? Otherwise, it seems unnecessary to me. As long as the timing is such that /WR data remains active after /WR goes inactive, I guess it should be OK.

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[Richard Davis Jr.]

Norbeto,

Here is the stuff for setting up the CF to boot CP/M from CF without floppies.

Rick

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[Douglas Miller]

FYI, there is a boot module in the new (Z80 V4) ROM for the simplified CF interface. That should allow booting any OS directly, provided the CF image is created correctly (bootstrap sectors exist). I'm not sure how Richard has setup these images, it would be nice if they were compatible with standard Heath bootstrapping - i.e. the H8T file essentially does a standard Heath boot.

Norberto, you spoke of a new 8080 CPU board with expanded ROM capabilities? That will require a port of the ROM code to eliminate Z80 instructions (and Z80 register handling), which is not trivial but is doable.

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[glenn.f...@gmail.com]

This is where a “roadmap” of these storage options would be handy.

 

I thought the primary purpose of Rick’s dual-CF board was to support the 8080 community?  I guess for completeness we could add a boot capability for his board to the Z80 V4 but sticking to a Z67 centric approach (e.g. the Z67-IDE+, and new derivatives thereof that Norberto is working on) makes more sense to me since it’s already supported in the PAM-37 ROM and other ROM enhancements from Douglas and Terry G.

 

It would seem that any “new and enhanced” 8080 CPU board (e.g. the one Norberto referred to in his email today) should have some kind of hard drive (i.e. SSD) boot support, presumably using Rick’s (already developed) boot code for his dual CF board?  I guess the other approach that was discussed here was the one used for GIDE implementations?  Don’t know much about that… (I think Terry G is the expert? This goes back to Les’ original Z80 clone board, which included GIDE support)

 

Adding Z67 support to the 8080 world (e.g. ROMs) would seem like a difficult (and ill advised) path…

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[Douglas Miller]

I don't believe there is anything about either CF solution that requires or is restricted to the 8080 CPU. If a board works on the H8 bus, the hardware should work with any CPU (just like the Z80 CPU boards work with existing peripheral boards). Then it's just a matter of software/ROM support. If a new 8080 board has an expanded ROM, then we can add many more capabilities. Rick's H8T boot solution is a way of providing new boot capability to the smaller ROM systems.

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[Joseph Travis]

Slightly off topic but relevant to the subject matter (the Dual CF board)... I had to modify the IDE-CF adapters (purchased from Amazon) to correctly install them on the Dual CF board.  Basically, I moved the jumper blocks and the LEDs to the backside of the IDE-CF adapter to allow it to install flush against the board.  Please see the attached photos.

NOTE: the jumper headers and LEDs are somewhat delicate.  Rather than trying to use a solder sucker or solder wick, I suggest using hemostats on the headers, heat up all pins at once and remove it from the board.  You can use your fingers to remove the LEDs.  The trick is to be quick because they damage easily.  Clean up the remaining solder after the parts are removed.

Regards,

Joe

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[Glenn Roberts]

On the Z67 IDE+ we have been soldering in the 40 pin connector at a slight angle to accommodate the clearance issue for the CF-to-IDE adapter, see picture at the top of page 9 in Norberto’s assembly instructions:

https://koyado.com/Heathkit/Z67-IDE-plus_files/Z67-IDE_Plus_User_Guide_1.pdf

Would this trick also work on the dual CF board?

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 16, 2022, at 9:49 PM, Joseph Travis <jtravi...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Douglas Miller]

Is there a need to be using IDE connectors plus the IDE-CF adapters? There are thru-hole CF sockets available and from what I hear the IDE-CF adapters can be flaky, or at least the quality can be inferior depending on the make. Is there really a need to support actual IDE-connected rotation drives? If not, perhaps this should be eliminated.

I had wanted to have the direct-connect CF board to be laid out for thru-hole CF sockets. The schematic does not show that, but maybe there is time to change that.

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Not at this time. I will need to update the schematics and board layout to support the thru-hole CF sockets and it will take time to complete. Also, it will be needed for the H89 as space is tight.

Norberto

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[norberto.collado koyado.com]

Data remains active after /WR goes inactive, as it is controlled by the /CS address.

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From: se...@googlegroups.com <se...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Douglas Miller <durga...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2022 4:25 PM

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