SDR Trunk or AirSpy R2 problem?

[Nate]

Monitoring 6 channels. 

Works fine for an hour or so, then everything goes idle.

Tried 3 different machines, 2 different OS's, one freshly reinstalled to try to resolve this.

Restart the software and it works for a while and dies again.

Short of adding the channels, this is a default config.

Any idea whats happening?

[Brad Wicks (Ulti P. Uzzer)]

I see the same thing, SDRT could use stability improvements.

[Noam Livne]

I also have this from time to time, though I am not sure what is the cause.

What helps me is changing a bit the PPM under the Tuners tab (with or without the Auto-Adjust enabled).

Hopefully that will help you.

[charley....@gmail.com]

I have two AirSpys monitoring two different systems running 24/7 for weeks at a time and never have this issue.  This is on a Linux box, i5-6600T and 16GB.  What are your hardware resources - CPU usage, memory allocations - when you start the program, and when it "crashes?"  - CPU usage, memory allocations?

[Nate]

Hello and thanks for the response and your time.

The first machine this was on was an Intel Core i3-9100F with 16gb of ram (Windows 10), it did struggle when it comes to processor, it was usually around 60 to 80 % usage. 

So i move this to an AMD Ryzen 5 5600 with 16gb of ram (Windows 10), it had plenty of processor power yet ive found a number of things in regards to AMD's not getting along. Also, same issue.

So i moved this to my machine, an Intel i9-11900K with 64gb of ram (Windows 11). Same issue.

When this happens, on all three systems, SDR Trunk just seems to go idle. 

The spectrum still moves and even seems to show the calls, but the now playing status shows idle and i hear no more calls.

System resources don't seem to move from where they are at when i start the application.

I can not find any events in windows event logs. 

The dos window doesn't show anything any different than the moment it was opened. Logs are not on so there are no log entries popping up.

The first two machines were dedicated to the radio use. I also reinstalled the OS on one to ensure a clean install with all current drivers and firmware.

My machine doesn't do much else other than gaming at times, and i have not played games in a couple weeks so its a non-issue there.

I did also run the CPU calibration on each machine. Java library seems to download and compile fine.

Im currently running unitrunker for over 24 hours with no issues. Same 6 sites (6 signal and 10 voice vfo's).

I have had issues with unitrunker also, but seemingly a separate issue that crops up once i run other software at the same time.

If it would help, i can run OBS and record the SDR Trunk window to show this happening, i could probably even pop open resource manager and record all that also.

Let me know what might help.

I understand the complexity of things like this can be a real pain so i appreciate any help or guidance you can provide and ill do my best to provide any logs or what not that might be helpful.

[charley....@gmail.com]

I'll assume now that system resources are not your problem.  Please post a screenshot of your radio configuration as viewed from your Tuner tab while the program is running and post your startup log - it's the text you see as the program starts.  A copy is in the Users folder under *your User Name*/SDRTrunk/logs and is named sdrtrunk_app.log

  

[Nate]

Both attached.

I have not changed anything on the tuner tab from defaults. Although i think i clicked on the slider bar at one point, but im not sure it moved.

For what its worth, the log file will stay exactly as it is right up to and after the radio goes idle. No further entries as logging is turned off on the channels.

I also deleted the old log and restarted the app so this is a clean log from this one boot.

[charley....@gmail.com]

These are my radios / tuner tab.  I've adjusted the ppm to get the Measured Error to zero.  The Gain is the stock setting.

[Nate]

Ok, should i be looking at the number measure as mhz or ppm?

Mine seems to already be 0.0 ppm and seems pretty solid at that. 

The HZ seems to float around -3 to 21Hz (occasionally outside of that range) and the ppm never leaves -0.0ppm.

I did adjust the gain control master back down to 14. It was at default until i started messing with things trying to figure out what was going on so i dont think this setting was the problem, but again, back to default as it works fine there also and i did not mean to move it from default as it seems that the signal is great, until it goes idle.

Also, i dont have an option for the sample rate to be 6 MHz only 2.5 and 10.

I only need 6MHz and would choose that if it was an option. 

Is that maybe an indicator of an issue and/or how do i get a 6MHz option?

[charley....@gmail.com]

You must have a really good AirSpy that doesn't need any correction?  I'm using two: a Mini and an R2, hence the difference in Sample rates, and both require a small correction.  If you are using the same AirSpy for all your machines, I'd check its cables and connection port.

I'm attaching my startup log.  The two differences I see are the complaint about HotPlug Event Notification not supported on the platform, and the last line where the AMBE CODEC is loaded in my log, but not in yours.  I'm not sut what is generation the HotPlug message and not sure if it is problematic.

[charley....@gmail.com]

Lol, wrong log - 

[Nate]

I was told they are calibrated at the factory and its maybe two weeks old now so i guess so?

I have used nooelec dongles that required ppm correction and am familiar with how to do that.

I started with cheapy dongles that had no txco either and those were all sorts of fun.

I do tend to think this one has been calibrated well, its also in an area with good air movement so heat is not an issue.

I have went through the connects as couple of times. Plus this is all on the same antenna leads that the previous nooelec dongles used.

I did discover the airspy antenna connection had not been tightened enough and it was allowing the airspy to rattle a little bit when moved.

I lightly tightened the antenna nut and that problem went away. I dont believe it was an issue though, but worth mentioning i guess?

Would a weak signal possibly be able to cause this?

I ask because 1 of the signals i listen to is a bit weak, and another 1 is very weak.

I have a tuned antenna (700 MHz UHF Vertical Outdoor Base Antenna (769-775 MHz)) on the way, should be here next week. 

Is it possible a weak signal on one of the channels is causing this?

Ive stopped 3 of the 6 for the time to see if it helps, so far im just not sure. It always seems to happen when im not able to pay attention.

I have made sure my PC power settings are all set to keep things on. PCI bus, USB power, no sleep, no hibernate, discs all stay on.

Also, I assume this is the error you are talking about "LibUsb Hotplug event notification Is Not Supported on this platform" 

I noticed that, and also noticed that its only popping up on my windows 11 box, the other two are windows 10 and i do not see that error.

I do get the same problem on the other two machines though so i do not believe this is related. 

And yeah, thanks for resending the log, i opened that and was confused by all the  �����'s 

:-)

[Nate]

Update: I have been running this now for 3 hours today with no issues. I was not able to do this before.

I had removed from other software that i did not think was related, however it somehow might have been.

For the moment, lets put this on pause for the moment.

Unless of course someone has an idea, ill certainly add it to the tsing list in case im just getting lucky today.

There was also a windows cumulative update that i ran, so maybe M$ did something to affect this?

It may also be because its a slow day? There just isnt much traffic right now.

I enabled the 3 channels i had disabled (turned off autostart) and will see how it goes.

4-6pm is usually the busy time of the day so if it makes it though the rest of the day, ill reinstall some software one piece at at time to see if i can identify any correlation.

I hope this is resolved, but i hate not knowing what resolved it so ill keep on it and report back if the problem does in fact continue or if it seems resolved.

I may even go so far as to remove the windows update and see if the problem comes back.

Although removing updates can trash a system by its self so i dunno.

Either way, at time i am not able to replicate the issue where before i couldn't make it an hour with out everything going idle.

I will report back. 

I hope it's resolved, but if so, i feel like i've wasted your time. Ugh

Thanks again, and ill let everyone know if this seems resolved or if the issue reoccurs.

[Nate]

Ok, it is still occuring, and it seems that having 6 channels caused it to happen a bit quicker than with 3 channels.

Below is a link to youtube and you can see what happens.

https://youtu.be/Bw3T1jZjbSw

Skip to about 9:30 and you can see the few second before it happens.

Last time this happened it started working when i manually stopped the channels, and then restarted them.

This time i seemed to have to start and stop a few times before everything came back.

While putting this email together it happened again on just the three channels but i wasnt recording.

This time, i stopped all three, waited 5 seconds and started them again, all worked right away upon being started.

Im currently recording with the task manager window as part of it also to see if that might help.

Ill post that link when i have it, although it may be a bit as i have plans tonight and tomorrow for the holiday.

Thanks again and i look forward to feedback.

[Nate]

This time the the software just locked up.

Link below, start at 12:30.

Plus you can see the CPU usage pegs at 100%

Clicking X would not close the program, i had to end task on the java process to get it to close.

https://youtu.be/I8yd9l3d6t0

Reopened the software and it started working right away again.

I await any thoughts on this, i am also aware it is a holiday weekend (in the US) so dont rush, have your personal time and get back to me when you can.

[Noam Livne]

This is a great video. Note that the spectrum(?) is shifted for some reason.

When this happens, change the PPM just a bit, and after a second the spectrum will get back to normal. Hopefully.

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[charley....@gmail.com]

I've set up an Airspy R2 on a Windows 11 machine, and have it set to monitor 3 sites / control channels from the same system.  I'll let it run to see if it fails.  I do see an IDLE status on one of the control channels - the weakest of the three.  I notice that the 700 Public Safety band in your area is boxed in by cell service - did you try to narrow the bandwidth of the Airspy? - I think you said that you did.

[Nate]

I did try to adjust the bandwidth. I only have 2.5 and 10 as an option.

I would love it if 6 was an option.

I do also have an antenna coming thats 769-775 MHz So that may help a bit.

Noam mentioned the shifting spectrum, is that not normal?

I assumed it was shifting as it keeps the spectrum centered based on frequencies being listened to so when it has more at one end its causing it to shift.

Is that not how it works? Curios on that now? Do i need to adjust the ppm, if so, which way? Ive moved it but then it only seems to be off a bit more one direction.

And i thought it should auto adjust? Is that just a feature in progress or ?

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[charley....@gmail.com]

It does look like the center frequency of the AirSpy begins to jump around before eventually crashing.  How's the power situation - voltage steady?  Are you using a UPS?  You mention that you also had problems with Unitrunker.  Is there something in your environment that is unusual?  What's your antenna set up?  In my lab office, the antennas I use are the cheap mag mounts that came with various SDRs i.e. cheap!  But they work well as I only listen to systems within their intended service area.

[Noam Livne]

I deleted the last message by mistake, for myself. Sorry.

I would first try my tip.

When the channels are "lost", go to the Tuners tab and see how many are "locked"? 1? 2? Just so you have an indication.

Then move the PPM one or two step up or one or two steps down and see how many are locked now? 5? - 6?

The Controls Channels are re-found!?

You fixed it!!!

I would also try it with the Auto-PPM on or off. Whatever works for you.

I think something is wrong with the mechanism.

It is of course a work-around till the developer will fix it, hopefully.

The spectrum should jump around but also the frequencies/channels should follow - but this is not the case according to your video (and my issue) - so I think there is a bug somewhere.

[Nate]

My machine is on a higher end 850w corsair power supply and my entire machine is on a UPS.

Im not gaming at all during the times im listening to the airpsy, so im pretty confident in power delivery.

My antenna is Tram 1411 Scanner 25MHz–1,300MHz VHF/UHF Super Discone Base Antenna Plus CB Transmit Bands

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QVNI1V0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I do not use it for CB and do not transmit anything, it was just a good price.

I do have an RG6U antenna wire from the antenna to the SDR. About 40 feet.

When i replace the antenna, im also replacing the wire with RG8x all the way.

The antenna wire is exposed to sunlight for most of the day, and is on the roof, do you think heat is causing this?

Today is a pretty cool morning and i have it open right now, no shifting.

It sounds like shifting might be an indicator of a problem then? 

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[Nate]

This is what it looks like right now.

No shifting, no mention of it being off center.

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[charley....@gmail.com]

The shifting is not normal.  My Windows 11 set up has been running for an hour now with no hiccups.  BTW, my log does show the HotPlug event notification message, so it must be related to Win 11.  It's not causing any problems atm. I am curious to see what happens when you change antennas.

[Noam Livne]

And, do you have valid decoding of the Control Channels?

If you do not have a valid decoding of the Control Channels, move the PPM a bit up or a bit down and see what happens. Remove the Auto-detect, and move the PPM a bit up or a bit down and see what happens.

[charley....@gmail.com]

One thing you can do is make the simplest configuration / fewest sites possible and still hear traffic.  Run that config for a while and see if the program runs correctly.  Then add in more sites until the program fails.

[Nate]

So, i had a splitter in the mix from when i had multiple nooelec's.

Its been removed, testing.

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[Nate]

Yeah, i originally had 6 that i listen to, now at 3, ill bump it back down to 1 here soon if needed.

Testing without the splitter to see what happens.

Cant believe i forgot about that thing.

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[Nate]

Maybe worth mentioning, when i started it the firs time today, it went directly to idle on all three channels.

Stopped and restarted and it came back.

[Nate]

Also, i have a Flamingo FM - Broadcast FM Bandstop Filter. I live within a couple miles of two FM towers and this helped a lot for general listening.

Is it problematic? I may remove it to see if it contributes, thoughts?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079CNCR8V/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Nate]

Here is a video of adjusting the ppm.

Adjusting it onlys seems to cause it to be further from the signal.

https://youtu.be/bF6gK_412L0

[Noam Livne]

Change the PPM (as you did in the video) only when you have the issue, and see that the Control Channels and voice channels come to life.

[Nate]

Noam, the signal and control channels are not really dying. The spectrum shifts, but im not loosing anything, at least not until everything goes idle.

So adjusting until things get better just doesnt do anything because its still pulling most everything in ok, right up until it goes idle.

Even with the shifting, its not losing channels, its just moving the spectrum.

[Noam Livne]

Change the PPM (as you did in the video) only when you have the *IDLE* issue, and see that the Control Channels and voice channels come to life.

*Do not change anything if it all works.*

The jumping is normal (and can be mitigated by fictional Control Channels to the left and to the right of the spectrum, but that is not your issue, IMHO).

[Nate]

Here is a video with only the two strongest channels, no splitter, no FM filter, Antenna to SDR.

https://youtu.be/W9vkGB2dqHI

You can see when it first starts up how messy the FM band is, about half of those dissappear with the FM filter. Even FM bands come in better once the filter is added. haha

Shifting still happens. Everything has not gone idle yet though, i keep making changes, so ill wait it out now and see what happens.

[Nate]

Noam, i hear you on adjusting when it goes idle.

Currently trying 2 channels, will adjust ppm when it goes idle to see what happens.

If problems continue, will reduce to the single channel and test again.

Also, unitrunker was mentioned before about having problems with it also.

Unitrunker was working fine until i started breaking things out with 10 audio lines, using trunking recorder, and another streaming app to share it over my network. It was pretty complex so i assume it was the complexity.

In trying to dumb things down, i figured i would switch to SDR Trunk in case it was better suited for the AirSpy. 

Now im here. :-)

Thats why the subject is referencing a possible airspy problem. 

I had three channels with multiple voice VFOs working with 4 nooelecs for months before switching to the airspy.

I switched to the airspy and it didnt seem stable, switched back to the nooelecs and they seems to sruggle with everything also.

Started tsing the computers, now switch to three different computers.

The unitrunker issue was an audio problem though, the audio would get very "digitized" after a number of hours, almost like unitrunker went to crappy audio where sdrtrunker is just going idle.

As mentioned, currently dumbing it down 2 strong channels, and will go down to one if it still happens.

Thank you both so much for all the support, it is very appreciated. 

I hope this email chain is helpful to someone else in the future also.

More to come...

[Nate]

Curious, on the tuners tab, the frequency column.

I notice that the frequency shown there changes every time the shift occurs.

This seemed to indicate to me that the frequency shown is a middle ground, like an average of the channels its listening to.

Is this not how it works? Should that frequency stay put at all times?

It seems its trying to keep the airspy centered, which makes sense, and the shifting constantly happens, and seems to be normal to me.

It would make sense that the software keeps the airspy centered based on what its listening to which would account for the shifting.

Thoughts?

Also, still no idle after a bit, but sometimes it does take an hour or three so. Lots of shifting around though. 

[Noam Livne]

First let's see if my tip helps with the Idle issue.

The jumping and changing of the center frequency are fine. We can mitigate it later.

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[Nate]

Noam, understood and waiting for it to go idle to test ppm.

[charley....@gmail.com]

What's happening is the center channel of the AirSpy is changing.  As I understand it, the software calculates the center channel and tunes the radio, but I don't know the process it uses to set the center channel.  For some reason, the program thinks it needs to change it.  When you created the Channels for the System, did you enter all the site's frequencies, only the active control channel, or all for control channels for each site?

BTW, my test set up has been running all day on the Win 11 box with no issues.

[charley....@gmail.com]

I just changed out the Airspy with 5 RTL dongle type devices.  I noticed that as a control channel was lost and the software hunted for an alternate control channel, the spectrum display shifted.

[charley....@gmail.com]

Also looking at your spectrum display, I see only two strong control channels (Nampa at 774.43125 and Ada County at 774.88125); the other four are marginal to week.

[Nate]

I am only tuned to 2 channels right now due to that weakness.

And it has still happened on just those two channels.

I might have stumbled onto something though, waiting for it to happen again to see if i can resolve it the same way again.

With only ttwo channels, it does seem to last longer. I suspect the weak signal might be part of the problem.

More to come.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Also, someone sent me a message about setting up filters to remove the noise on the lower and possibly upper end also.

Ive had a busy day installing some POE security cameras so ill have more info later.

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[Nate]

Alright. Happened again with two channels.

I attempted to adjust the ppm to see what happens. Last time, i was not recording, and the moment i adjust the ppm it started working.

As you can see in the video this time though, it did not work. I had to restart the app to get it to start working again.

https://youtu.be/bG6voBhDQK0

Narrowing it down to a single channel for continued tsing needs. 

Will get the filters added soon to see if that helps.

[Jeff Thompson]

There is no need to adjust your Airspy tuners PPM settings. 

1. They are already TXCO and don't need adjusting, unlike many of the junk dongles out there that drift as they heat up
2. SDRTrunk will automatically adjust PPM if you let it - but you really don't need to bother with it

Just leave PPM alone on the Airspy. This alone could be the cause of your problems if you've adjusted it and actually moved it even just a few hundred Hz in any direction. P25 is not tolerant of off-frequency devices. 

Do make sure you've tried both C4FM and LSM control channel demod. I have seen C4FM work perfectly fine on an LSM signal for a few minutes, then crap out. 

Don't blindly trust Radio Reference - try both settings. 

If you're in a marginal reception location - as in the CC signals are weak - then you may want to experiment with gain settings on the Airspy, but the default settings usually work fine. Having the correct antenna for the band is probably the most useful thing you can do. 

I don't see enough evidence of interference to worry about adding filters. 

[Nate]

Update on this, im still waiting on the antenna to see if higher signal quality resolves the situation.