1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter

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Andrew Thornett

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Mar 7, 2026, 4:24:10 AM (6 days ago) Mar 7
to 'fasleitung3' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
I have ordered an 1415-1425MHz cavity filter from China and it on its way to me now - manufactured on demand which was interesting.

Test curve attached. 

Andy
1-1.png

Alex P

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Mar 7, 2026, 8:35:12 AM (6 days ago) Mar 7
to Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Andy,
If you are using a SAWbird w/ its internal band limiting filter, what is the purpose of adding this ?

Alex

Robert Hamers

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Mar 7, 2026, 9:09:30 AM (6 days ago) Mar 7
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Can you please post the URL of the one you bought ?  Thanks!

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Andrew Thornett

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Mar 7, 2026, 5:34:05 PM (6 days ago) Mar 7
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Hi Alex,
Experimentation!
But I agree SAWBird H1 is excellent alone.
Andy


From: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Robert Hamers <rjha...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2026 2:09:25 PM
To: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
 

Andrew Thornett

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Mar 7, 2026, 5:35:23 PM (6 days ago) Mar 7
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Andy


Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2026 2:09:29 pm

To: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter

b alex pettit jr

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Mar 7, 2026, 5:53:24 PM (6 days ago) Mar 7
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
In front of an FFT analyzer ( SDR ) this unit acts as an Anti-Aliasing Filter

Andrew Thornett

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Mar 7, 2026, 6:48:27 PM (6 days ago) Mar 7
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For those who wish to know, info on what an anti-aliasing filter is below.

Alex - overall how well would this tighter passband of 1415-1425 on this cavity filter compared to the +/- 50 MHz on the SAWBird prevent strong out of band RFI leaking through?

Andy

An anti-aliasing filter is a filter placed before a signal is sampled by an analog-to-digital converter (ADC) to remove frequencies that are too high to be represented correctly after sampling.

Why it is needed

When converting a continuous signal into digital samples, the sampling rate limits the highest frequency that can be represented. This limit is defined by the Nyquist–Shannon Sampling Theorem.

  • If the sampling rate is Fs, the highest recoverable frequency is Fs / 2 (the Nyquist frequency).
  • Any signal component above Fs/2 will appear falsely as a lower frequency after sampling.
  • This distortion is called Aliasing.

The anti-aliasing filter removes those high-frequency components before sampling, preventing them from folding into the measured spectrum.

What the filter usually is

Most commonly it is a low-pass filter:

  • Passband: desired signal frequencies
  • Stopband: frequencies above the Nyquist frequency

Example:

Sampling Rate Nyquist Frequency Anti-Aliasing Filter Cutoff
10 kHz 5 kHz ~4–4.5 kHz

The cutoff is set slightly below Nyquist to allow the filter to roll off.

Simple diagram

Analog signal      │      ▼ Anti-Aliasing Filter (Low-Pass)      │      ▼ ADC (Sampling)      │      ▼ Digital Signal

Real-world examples

Anti-aliasing filters are used in:

  • Digital audio recording (before ADC in microphones or audio interfaces)
  • Software defined radio receivers
  • Oscilloscopes
  • Image sensors (optical low-pass filters in cameras)
  • Scientific instruments

Example in radio astronomy

If a receiver samples at 2 MHz, any signals above 1 MHz baseband must be suppressed. Otherwise strong RFI above that frequency could alias into the band of interest and appear as false spectral lines.


ANTI-ALIASING FILTER

An anti-aliasing filter is a filter placed before an Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC).
Its purpose is to remove signal frequencies that are too high to be correctly represented after sampling.

If those high frequencies are not removed, they appear as incorrect lower frequencies in the digital data.
This effect is called aliasing.


  1. Why aliasing happens

When a signal is sampled, the sampling rate limits the highest frequency that can be measured correctly.

Nyquist frequency = Fs / 2

where

Fs = sampling rate

Example

Sampling rate Fs = 2 MHz

Nyquist frequency = 1 MHz

Any signal above 1 MHz will appear at the wrong frequency after sampling.


Example of aliasing

Sampling rate = 2 MHz
Nyquist frequency = 1 MHz

Suppose a signal exists at 1.3 MHz.

Aliased frequency can be calculated as

f_alias = | f_signal - n * Fs |

Choose n = 1

f_alias = | 1.3 - 2.0 |

f_alias = 0.7 MHz

So a signal at 1.3 MHz appears in the spectrum at 700 kHz.


What the spectrum would look like

Actual signal:

1.3 MHz (outside the observable band)

Observed spectrum after sampling:

0 Hz ---------------------- 1 MHz * 700 kHz (false signal)

This false signal is the alias.


  1. Purpose of the anti-aliasing filter

The anti-aliasing filter removes frequencies above the Nyquist frequency before the ADC samples the signal.

Signal chain:

Analog Signal | V Anti-Aliasing Filter (Low Pass) | V ADC | V Digital Signal


  1. Example for an SDR receiver

Suppose:

Sample rate = 2 MHz
Nyquist frequency = 1 MHz

We want to observe frequencies from

0 Hz to 900 kHz

The anti-aliasing filter should therefore suppress frequencies above about 1 MHz.

Target:

0 - 900 kHz pass band

1 MHz strongly attenuated


  1. Simple RC anti-alias filter

Cutoff frequency formula

fc = 1 / (2 * pi * R * C)

Example

R = 180 ohms
C = 1 nF

fc approx 884 kHz

However, a single RC filter only rolls off slowly (6 dB per octave), so strong interference may still leak through.


  1. Better solution

Most receivers use higher order filters such as

Butterworth low-pass filter

Typical design

Order: 4 to 6
Cutoff: about 0.9 * Nyquist frequency

Advantages

  • flat passband
  • steep attenuation above cutoff
  • much better rejection of unwanted signals

  1. Typical receiver chain in radio astronomy

Antenna | LNA (low noise amplifier) | RF bandpass filter | Mixer or downconverter | Anti-alias low-pass filter | ADC or SDR


  1. Why this matters in radio astronomy

Without an anti-aliasing filter:

  • strong transmitters outside the band
  • can fold into the observed spectrum
  • appear as false spectral lines
  • corrupt long integrations

This is particularly important when observing weak signals such as the 1420 MHz hydrogen line.



ANTI-ALIAS FILTER DESIGN FOR A 1420 MHz SDR RECEIVER

In hydrogen line radio astronomy the receiver usually converts
1420.405 MHz down to baseband before sampling.

Example receiver parameters:

RF frequency = 1420.405 MHz
Sample rate (Fs) = 2 MHz
Nyquist frequency = Fs / 2 = 1 MHz

Therefore only frequencies between

0 Hz and 1 MHz

can be represented correctly.

To avoid aliasing we normally design the anti-alias filter slightly below Nyquist.

Typical design target:

Passband : 0 to 900 kHz
Stopband : above 1 MHz


Example simple LC low-pass filter (3 pole)

           L1            L2

Input ----coil----+----coil----+---- Output | | C1 C2 | | GND GND

Example component values for about 900 kHz cutoff:

L1 = 22 uH
L2 = 22 uH
C1 = 1.2 nF
C2 = 1.2 nF

Characteristics:

Passband: flat to about 800 to 900 kHz
Rolloff : about 18 dB per octave

For stronger RFI rejection, a 5 pole filter is better.


Example 5 pole low-pass filter

Input --L1--+--L2--+--L3-- Output | | | C1 C2 C3 | | | GND GND GND

Typical values for about 900 kHz cutoff:

L1 = 18 uH
L2 = 27 uH
L3 = 18 uH

C1 = 1.5 nF
C2 = 2.2 nF
C3 = 1.5 nF

This gives much better suppression near Nyquist.


Typical SDR receiver chain

Antenna | V LNA | V RF Bandpass Filter (around 1420 MHz) | V Mixer / Downconverter | V Anti-Alias Low Pass Filter (about 900 kHz cutoff) | V ADC / SDR


TABLE OF ALIAS FREQUENCIES

This table shows where signals above Nyquist appear in the spectrum.

Example sample rate:

Fs = 2 MHz
Nyquist = 1 MHz


Real Frequency Observed Frequency

1.1 MHz 0.9 MHz
1.2 MHz 0.8 MHz
1.3 MHz 0.7 MHz
1.4 MHz 0.6 MHz
1.5 MHz 0.5 MHz
1.6 MHz 0.4 MHz
1.7 MHz 0.3 MHz
1.8 MHz 0.2 MHz
1.9 MHz 0.1 MHz


ASCII visualization

Real spectrum (before sampling)

0 ----1 MHz----2 MHz | real signal 1.3 MHz

Observed spectrum (after sampling)

0 -----------1 MHz * 700 kHz

The signal has "folded" around the Nyquist frequency.


Quick rule for alias frequency

alias = abs( signal_frequency - n * sample_rate )

where n is an integer chosen so the result falls inside the sampled band.


Why this matters for hydrogen line work

If strong signals exist near the receiver, for example

mobile transmitters
satellites
radar

they may enter the receiver above the Nyquist frequency and appear as false narrow lines in the spectrum.

Without an anti-alias filter these signals can look very similar to real astronomical spectral features.


From: 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2026 10:53:20 PM
To: 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
 
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b alex pettit jr

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Mar 7, 2026, 7:11:40 PM (6 days ago) Mar 7
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
I would guess you'd need some good test equipment to observe the difference.
For MW  HLine level measurements : Zero.

I think the narrow band-pass filter concept is a carry-over from pre-SDR days when Continuum Measurements were the norm.
Frequency selective filtering was the only way the content of the (analog)  RMS values could be defined.

A narrow filter may reduce some out-of-band RFI saturation/blocking issues with the SDR, 
but most probably the analog amplification stages of the LNA would go non-linear first.

Alex
==============================================

Marko Cebokli

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Mar 8, 2026, 12:34:40 AM (6 days ago) Mar 8
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This filter has much better far away attenuation than a SAW filter. Saw filters can be made narrow, with steep flanks, but suck at far away attenuation. If you have a powerful (radar..) interference 100 or 200 MHz away, this will attenuate it much better than a SAW.

Marko Cebokli


08.03.2026 01:11, je 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers napisal

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Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 1:30:18 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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My apologies, Alex, I don't have any background in telecommunications, and the concepts you describe are new to me - would you mind if I asked you to explain this further in simpler terms (aimed at an idiot = me).
Andy
From: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Marko Cebokli <s57...@hamradio.si>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 5:34:32 AM
To: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
 

This filter has much better far away attenuation than a SAW filter. Saw filters can be made narrow, with steep flanks, but suck at far away attenuation. If you have a powerful (radar..) interference 100 or 200 MHz away, this will attenuate it much better than a SAW.

Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 1:41:32 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Also Alex, what about intermodulation from mobile phone base stations? Would the cavity filters do a better job of removing this, or wouldn't it make any difference?
Andy


From: Andrew Thornett <andrew....@googlemail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 6:30:11 AM

b alex pettit jr

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Mar 8, 2026, 5:45:27 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
a) Marcus @ CCERA installed a Cavity Filter before the LNA to remove RFI issues with their large dish system
b) Dominique Fraiser sells custom LNAs with an integral Pre-amplification-stage Cavity Filter   U$1900
c) I solved the  " intermodulation from mobile phone base station " RFI at the Univ of Central Fla 
        by using a Tuned Cylindrical Waveguide with its inherent band pass characteristics ( again:  Pre-LNA Filtering )

>> To Solve RFI : Remove it Before it gets to Any of the amplification stages .. 

================================================================

Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 7:38:39 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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So, Alex, does that mean there could be some advantsge to using this cavity filter I've bought before the SAWBird?
Andy


From: 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 9:45:17 AM
To: 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
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b alex pettit jr

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Mar 8, 2026, 7:44:09 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers
Its installation will probably cost you in elevated Tsys...But Try  It 
& use software which can measure the difference aka SDR#

( However, if you don't have a significant RFI issue, you are degrading the system for no purpose )


Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 8:02:28 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Ok
From: 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 11:44:02 AM

To: 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
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b alex pettit jr

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Mar 8, 2026, 8:38:33 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers



Or, You could try this to clean up the data





Inline image

                still a work in progress
Inline image






Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 8:54:15 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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I'll definitely give that a go
From: 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 12:38:26 PM

To: 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter
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b alex pettit jr

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Mar 8, 2026, 9:04:19 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
to 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers

The way to try the filtering is to 1st  set Width = 0 to get an uncorrected data set.
Then start with small values of filter width & compare ..
If set too wide, the filtering will change the H amplitudes.

Eugene Ham

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Mar 8, 2026, 9:55:23 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Andy, good afternoon! Can you share where you ordered the filter? Thank you.

вс, 8 мар. 2026 г., 18:04 'b alex pettit jr' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>:
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Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 9:56:16 AM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Wtmicrowave.com
From: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Eugene Ham <eugeneh...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2026 1:55:08 PM
To: sara...@googlegroups.com <sara...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: Re: [SARA] Re: 1415-1425MHz Cavity Filter

Eugene Ham

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Mar 8, 2026, 10:53:04 PM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Ok.Thanks!

вс, 8 мар. 2026 г., 18:56 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>:

Andrew Thornett

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Mar 8, 2026, 11:31:47 PM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Accepting Alex's comment that any cavity filter would find it difficult to offer much better than SAWBird H1, nevertheless I think that WTMicrowave will produce bespoke cavity filters if you need different cut-offs and frequencies, and their prices are around £150 per filter!
Andy
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2026 2:52:44 AM

Eugene Ham

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Mar 8, 2026, 11:49:24 PM (5 days ago) Mar 8
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Thanks for the information. I was experimenting with band-pass filters on counter-pin resonators. I made them myself. The passband was at 6 MHz.
I used Dale Hitherington's online calculator (WA4DSY) https://www.wa4dsy.net/cgi-bin/idbpf to calculate it.

пн, 9 мар. 2026 г., 08:31 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers <sara...@googlegroups.com>:
9621.jpg
9614.jpg
9616.jpg
9618.jpg
9615.jpg
9617.jpg

Marko Cebokli

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Mar 9, 2026, 1:53:33 AM (5 days ago) Mar 9
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In some parameters, like passband loss and stopband attenuation, cavity filters beat SAW filters hands down, but they are huge in size, a problem for modern microstrip/SMD tech. Most SAW filters will struggle to have more than 30 or 40dB of stopband attenuation over a wide range of frequencies. Saw filters are conveniently small, just a few mm, and have steep flanks in the frequency response, but are in other respects no magic.

Marko Cebokli


09.03.2026 04:31, je 'Andrew Thornett' via Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers napisal

fasleitung3

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Mar 9, 2026, 4:15:24 AM (4 days ago) Mar 9
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As part of a series of articles on hydrogen observations, we have measured the characteristics of various types of filters.
Have a look at the second article, where you will find the details of the filters.
It fully supports what Marko describes.
Best regards,
Wolfgang
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