Sanskrit accents

[T.K Gopalan]

It has been known that Sanskrit was originally spoken with accents but in course of time it lost its accents. 

I wonder if any attempt has been made to reimagine how spoken Sanskrit would have sounded with accents; for example, how would the following well-known dialogue look with accent marks?

का त्वं बाले।

काञ्चनमाला।

कस्याः पुत्री।

कनकलतायाः।

हस्ते किं ते।

तालीपत्रम्।

का वा रेखा।

क ख ग घ॥
Thanks.

T K Gopalan

***

[kenp]

AI Overview

Learn more

Yes, Sanskrit, particularly Vedic Sanskrit, was originally spoken with a system of pitch accents. This system, including udātta, anudātta, and svarita, was crucial in distinguishing meanings and was described in detail by the grammarian Pāṇini. While later forms of Sanskrit might have seen some changes or loss of these accents, their presence in the earlier stages is well documented. 

Here's a more detailed explanation: 

• Pitch Accent:

  Vedic Sanskrit, the language of the Vedas, utilized a pitch accent system where the tone or pitch of a syllable could change the meaning of a word.
• Pāṇini's Grammar:

  The grammarian Pāṇini, who lived around the 5th century BCE, documented the accent system in Vedic Sanskrit and also described the accents of the spoken language of his time.
• Diacritical Marks:

  Modern representations of these accents often use diacritical marks to indicate the different tones (udātta, anudātta, svarita).
• Evolution of Accent:

  While the exact pronunciation of spoken Sanskrit is difficult to reconstruct, the presence of a pitch accent system in Vedic Sanskrit is well established and documented in early grammars.
• Impact on Meaning:

  The accent system was not just a feature of the language but was also a crucial part of its meaning, with different accents conveying different shades of meaning.
• AI responses may include mistakes.
  

AI responses may include mistakes.

[T.K Gopalan]

With due respect, this completely bypasses my question. 

I hope some other member of the group will answer my question.

T K Gopalan

***

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[Venkat SASTRY]

I would be curious to know any examples of pitch accent changing the meaning. I am aware of the pitch in reciting slokas, but I am totally ignorant of the fact they changing their meaning. Thanking you in advance.

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[kenp]

Reimagining spoken Sanskrit with accent marks involves indicating emphasis, pitch, or stress patterns that might have been used in pronunciation. While classical Sanskrit pronunciation is generally considered to be quite uniform and precise, regional and stylistic variations could introduce subtle accent differences.

Here's a possible way to mark accents or emphasis in your provided dialogue, inspired by traditional recitative and chant traditions, using acute (´) for a higher pitch and grave (`) for a lower pitch. This is an interpretive approach, as there's no standard for accents in classical Sanskrit texts, but it can help visualize how pronunciation might have varied.

**Reimagined with accent marks:**

का त´वं बाले।  
काञ्चनमाला।  
कस्याः पुत्री।  
कनकलतायाः।  
हस्ते किं ते।  
तालीपत्रम्।  
का वा रेखा।  

क ख ग घ।  

**Explanation:**  
- The first line "का त्वं बाले।" has an accent on "त्वं" to suggest a higher pitch on the pronoun, emphasizing the question "Are you a boy?"  
- In "काञ्चनमाला," the word is kept neutral, but an accent could be placed on "माला" if one wanted to emphasize "garland."  
- The other lines are kept mostly neutral or with slight accents to highlight natural speech rhythm.  

**Note:**  
- This is a simplified and interpretive way to indicate potential accents.  
- Actual pronunciation would vary based on regional dialects, recitative styles, and individual speech patterns.  
- Traditional Sanskrit chanting often involves pitch modulation, which can be represented with such marks for study or artistic purposes.

If you'd like a more detailed or differently styled accentuation, please specify!

"AI Overview / AI responses may include mistakes."

[NathRao]

[Natural intelligences make mistakes also :-^)]

Venkat Sastry> I would be curious to know any examples of pitch accent changing the meaning.

There is the famous story of त्वष्टृ saying इ॔न्द्रशत्रु instead of इन्द्रशत्रु॔ [I will use ' on the syllable to denote udatta],changing the meaing from "killer of Indra" for the latter to "having Indra as killer".

Moving the udatta to indicate a change in meaning or grammatical role is a very common occurrence in older stages of Sanskrit: Bahuvrihis and tatpurushas are distinguished this way. The above is an example.This can happen with simple words too: ज्येष्टं "eldest", but ज्ये॔ष्ट "best/greatest".

Example of changing meaning/grammatical role: कटनां कर्ता॔ [udatta on the last syllable of kartaa] "maker of mats", कटान् क॔र्ता "one wont to make mats (taacchiilya), कटान् कर्ता॔ [udatta on the last syllable] "he will make mats" (so called periphrastic future, लुट्).

IIRC, Devasthali, in his monograph on phitsutras, expands on how the pitch accent will make impossible a lot of word play in medieval Sanskrit.

---

Turning to the original question: I don't know if anyone has attempted to add accents to later Sanskrit works, but that doesn't mean no one has tried. I will just explain why no one might:

First is that we don't always know how to accent a given word. If we can etymologize as root+suffix, or prratipadika+taddhita, we can use Panini's rules. Or we can use phit sutras. But these does not always work, especially for neologisms. For example kaanchana looks like it should be accented on the first syllable based on the suffix -ana, but who knows. When  we get to 'taali', all bets are off. [taalipatra must be a tatpurusha, so likely antodatta, but I am not going through all of Ashtadhyayi 6.2 to make sure.]

Second, accenting compounds requires applying the rules from the entire second paada of sith adhyaaya of aSTaadhyaayi, after analyzing the compound. The general rules are simple but there are exceptions, exceptions to exceptions etc. kaa'nchanamaalaa (assuming that it is a bahuvrihi) is not too bad, but I wouldn't try my hand on "viichistobhastanitavihagashrenikanchiguNa".

After you get the accents of all single words, we need to deal with clause/sentence level rules. I won't expand on this as I have too many questions for which I have idea of an answer.
Regards
Nath Rao

[Nagaraj Paturi]

https://www.uni-due.de/raster/index.shtml 

Prof Peter Raster, now retired and living his retired life in his home country in Germany is the one I know who focused on the Ashtadhyayi sutras of svara for laukika Samskrita . 

I am trying to locate his papers on this in my collection. 

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Nagaraj Paturi

Kulapati | Vice-Chancellor, INDICA

 

 

 

[T.K Gopalan]

This is most interesting. Hope Nagaraj Paturi mahodaya will be able to bring more light to this.

***

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[ज्वलन्त्युखा]

नञ्-बहुव्रीहिसमासः अन्त्योदात्तः। विष्णुसहस्रनामस्तोत्रे अनुत्तमः बहुव्रीहिः । न विद्यते उत्तमः यस्मात् सः अनुत्तम’ः । न उत्तमः अनुत्तमः इति नञ्-तत्पुरुषः निन्दास्तुतिः । अतः जनैः सस्वरं सम्यगुच्चारणं करणीयम् ।

[T.K Gopalan]

This is amazing!

***

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[T.K Gopalan]

This is the first explicit example of how accent can change meaning in Sanskrit. Very instructive, thank you.

Regards.

***

On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 at 7:20 am, ज्वलन्त्युखा <fryingp...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[sayantan roy]

want to compile a single dictionary consists of words listed in main 22 languages of our constitution, very hard work but a nice play might be , more than 10 lakh words of each language might be intercepted , it will show how strong our linguistic bonds are , i am very optimistic about this project, doing it will be very very hard. If any professor /student is interested in doing such an extremely hard optimistic project ,I will be very happy. mail me :sayan...@gmail.com

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[Anunad Singh]

Such a project was already completed, may be, 20 years ago. It was named 'भारतीय भाषा कोश' and was in 14 Indian languages with about 5000 words.

It is available at Hindi Wiktionary at  https://hi.wiktionary.org/wiki/विक्षनरी:भारतीय_भाषा_कोश  .  

But your dictionary project is really ambitious. It will be hard work especially if not done programmatically but manually. It will be much easier to collect unicode bilingual dictionaries of all the 22 Indian languages in schedule 8. Then using simple programs, the 22 language dictionary can be compiled. 

But I doubt it will be that useful. To me, even 4-language dictionaries seem to be useless. Then 10 lakh words ! This will still reduce its usefulness.

Instead, if we compile only 2000 words of Indian languages which are common to 10 major languages of India, it will be much more useful. Our government can/should promote and popularize such a set of words to bring Indian languages closer. Such a set of words could be popularised by asking questions in various competitive exams on the meaning of words taken from this set. (of course, this set should be declared as part of curriculum of those exams in advance)

-- अनुनाद 

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

Just shared on BVP

https://youtu.be/sMxgYxzE3zs - उ॒दा॒त्ता॒नु॒दा॒त्तानां॑ वि॒वेच॑नायाभ्या॒से प्रयो॑क्ष्यत॒ इत्याशा॑से।

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[Nagaraj Paturi]

This was shared by 

उत्कर्ष राजपूत जी

[Vishvas Vasuki (Vishvas)]

https://vishvasa.github.io/sanskrit/vyAkaraNam/pANinIyam/svaraH/padasvaraH/ इत्य् उपयोगाय स्यात्। 

कः, त्वम्, कस्य, का, हस्ते आद्युदात्ताः। 
पुत्री - अन्तोदात्तः। 
 ते, वा - अनुदात्तः।  

[T.K Gopalan]

Thank. You very much.

***

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[Ecneics]

There is no such thing as नञ् बहुव्रीहिः the kashika of the नञ् reads 'नञ् समर्थेन सुबन्तेन सह समस्यते, तत्पुरुषश्च समासो भवति। न ब्राह्मणः, अब्राह्मणः। अवृषलः॥' which doesn't include बहुव्रीहिः

The siddhi of अनुत्तमः is as follows

उत् + तमः - उत्थितस् तमः 

hence meaning most तमोगुणः

नञ् + उत्तमः - न उत्थितस् तम इति अनुत्तमः 

Hence, अनुत्तमः means opposite of most तमोगुणः

For उत्तमः 

उत् + तमप् where अतिशायने तमबिष्ठनौ sutra was used. This sutra can be used for avyaya like उत् as well as can be seen from भूयिष्ठ. Hence उत्तमः means 'most high'.

They are just two different words with different siddhi not opposite of each other 

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[Krishna Kashyap]

In other words, can an AI system be the best chanter of vedas, once it knows the rules of svaras?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 10:34 AM Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it possible to create vedic accents on any part of veda using some rules, if only text of the veda mantras are available?

are the rules simple and what is the purpose of prathi shakhya for each vedas being separate? yes the svaras are different in rigveda for example for purusa sukta.

but are there specific rules we can input and mark any vedic mantra with svaras based on which veda they belong to.?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[Krishna Kashyap]

Is it possible to create vedic accents on any part of veda using some rules, if only text of the veda mantras are available?

are the rules simple and what is the purpose of prathi shakhya for each vedas being separate? yes the svaras are different in rigveda for example for purusa sukta.

but are there specific rules we can input and mark any vedic mantra with svaras based on which veda they belong to.?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

On Wed, Jul 9, 2025 at 9:45 AM Vishvas Vasuki (Vishvas) <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

https://031323.github.io/rgvedopkrnani/path इत्य् अप्य् उपादेयम्। 

On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 at 19:55, विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki) <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 at 17:22, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

In other words, can an AI system be the best chanter of vedas, once it knows the rules of svaras?

https://031323.github.io/suvak/index2.html

 

अस्य ऋग्वेद-पठन-यन्त्रं क्वेति विस्मृतम्। 

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Vishvas /विश्वासः

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Vishvas /विश्वासः

[T.K Gopalan]

Thank you.

***

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[Krishna Kashyap]

Is it true that today, there is no need for learning svaras and chanting any of the vedic hymns, since it can be accurately generated? Of course in rituals, procedures have to be followed. However, even in rituals, if we have a good AI machine which can chant the mantras, that can be used in addition to available priests?

Best Regards,

Krishna Kashyap

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[विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)]

On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 at 06:57, Krishna Kashyap <kkashy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is it true that today, there is no need for learning svaras and chanting any of the vedic hymns, since it can be accurately generated?

(A caveat is that the modern "traditional" svara-system is different from the atavism the machines currently generate.)

 

Of course in rituals, procedures have to be followed. However, even in rituals, if we have a good AI machine which can chant the mantras, that can be used in addition to available priests?

This is incorrect. Technically, without adhyayana, one has no authority to perform any ritual involving mantras. As a patch, the purohita

"instructs" (=does adhyayana saMskAra) the yajamAna by making him repeat the mantras in the modern context. (Reality is worse, of course.) 
So, for this "adhyayana", one has to have a human AchArya with unbroken transmission from the sages.

 

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[NathRao]

It is hard to preserve proper threading when responding via web. So I will just quote the relevant part of what I am responding to.

I am also going retro: No space between words (like in old manuscripts), but I will do it only if sandi somewhere within the phrase/segment makes some space disappers, so that it is still a bit easier to read.

I am repeatedly having trouble posting via the web interface. I am not sure why. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the proper procedure when using the web interface.

---------

Ecneics claims that there is no such thing as a नञ् बहुव्रीहिः. If so, how  do yu translate the following, from Mahabhashya on 3.2.110:
सतोऽप्यविवक्षाभवति। तत्यथा| अलोमिकैडका| अनुदराकन्या| [The नञ् बहुव्रीहिs are in the examples, the last two sentences.]

The text quoted by Ecneics is from Kashika on 2.2.6. But on 6.2.116 and 6.2.172, Panini and Kashika talk about bahuvriihis with नञ् as the first element. This is why Kashika, under 2.2.24 says
नञोऽस्त्यर्थानांबहुव्रीहिर्वाचोत्तरपदलोपश्च​ (it looks OK in the web app I use to get devanagari, but looks wrong in Featherpad, my usual text editor.)
[But, Patanjali seems to say that it is not necessary to say this explicitly]. Thus अविद्यमानःपुत्रोऽस्येति अपुत्रः पुरुषः। अविद्यमानायवाअस्मिन्निति अयवो देशः।

> "न ब्राह्मणः, अब्राह्मणः" अब्राह्मणः can be bahuvriihi as well, as above: अविदमानाब्राह्मानाअस्मिन्निति अब्राह्मणो नगरः|

----

Krishan Kashyap asked "Is it possible to create vedic accents on any part of veda using some rules, if only text [meaning without the accent markings] of the veda mantras are available?"
Others (and I) have given examples where accent affects meaning. I will now add the following: In पश्पशाह्निका under 'असन्देहार्थम् चाध्येयम् व्याकरणम्' Patanjali discusses regarding how to interpret स्थूलपृषती. If it is antodaata, and thus tatpurusha, it means 'stout and spotted', but if the udaata is on 'la' of 'sthuula' (the standard accent of sthuula), it is bahuvriihi, and means 'having big spots'. In short, because svarass can affect meaning, you can't recreate them unless you know the intended meaning some other way.

An underappreciated fact is that intonation sometimes conveys the meaning punctuation carries in modern writing. There is a significant stretch of rules in Panini regarding how intonation interacts with (pitch) accent. There is also a stretch of rules about when finite verbs retain their udatta, and these relate to  subordinate/coordinate clauses vs sentences. Again, you need to know the meaning beforehand to restore the svaras. [Of course, originally the speaker used appropriate svaras to convey the intended meaning, and the hearer reversed the process: use the heard svaras to infer the intended meaning. So the svaras were an integral part of speech. It is a whole another topic why it does not appear in writing, it seems to added after copying in extant vedic manuscripts, etc.]

Regards
Nath Rao

[ज्वलन्त्युखा]

तमस् इति नपुंसकम् । उत्थितं तमः उत्तमः (पुनः क्लीबम्)। उत्थितं तमः यस्य सः उत्तमाः (बहुव्रीहिः)। न उत्थितं तमः यस्य सः अनुत्तमाः ।

सम्बोधने अनुत्तमो (अनुत्तमस् प्रातिपदिकम्) इति भवति ।

विष्णुसहस्रनामस्तोत्रे तु सर्वत्र प्रथमाविभक्तिरूपाणि दृश्यन्ते - “अनुत्तमो दुराधर्षः कृतज्ञः कृतिरात्मवान्” । अतः अनुत्तमस् प्रातिपदिकम् अत्र न वर्तते ।

बहुव्रीहिसमासौ अन्यौ अविज्ञाता (न विद्यते विज्ञाता यस्य सः ) अप्रतिरथः (न विद्यते प्रतिरथः यस्य सः) ।

अपुत्रा’ः पुत्रिणस्सन्तु पुत्रिणः पौत्रिणस्तथा ।

अधना’स्सधनास्सन्तु जीवन्तु शरदां शतम् ॥

अपुत्राः - न विद्यते पुत्रः येषां ते ।

अधनाः - न विद्यते धनं येषां ते ।

अष्टाध्याय्यां ६.२.१७२ पश्यतु कृपया ।