Policy discussion about hiding GitHub comments

[John H Palmieri]

This message comes from the Code of Conduct Committee, in response to a question from Kwankyu (labeled A1 in his message) about the authority to mark a comment as off topic, and more generally about hiding comments.

Proposed policy regarding hiding comments on GitHub: except for marking and hiding comments as spam, which anyone with appropriate permissions should do as necessary, the Sage Code of Conduct Committee has the sole responsibility for hiding comments, marking them off-topic, etc.

Discussion?

[Matthias Koeppe]

John, you should probably try to explain what problem, if any, you are trying to solve.

 

[David Roe]

We are starting this thread for two reasons.

1. Kwankyu asked for clarity on who can mark comments as off topic.

2. You marked this comment as off-topic, which asked for clarification on the action you had just taken removing the disputed label, and then several additional comments on that PR.

Since our project is fairly new to github, we have not yet developed norms for using its moderation features.  We are starting this thread to discuss such norms with the community.  We made one proposal, but are open to others, which is why we asked for discussion rather than a vote.

David

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[Martin R]

I fully agree with the proposed policy.  It appears to me that there is no consensus among the dozen or so contributurs in what is considered off topic or offensive.  Therefore, I would hope that such a policy reduces tension.

If possible (and the policy is adopted), it might be extra-nice if the code of conduct committee would also contact the author of the comment which is marked as off topic.  In the case at hand, I would not know how to clarify the situation in a friendly way other than the way I tried.  Before the comment was marked as off topic, I thought that asking on sage-devel would not be friendly, and asking privately (by looking up Matthias' email) would be intrusive.  So, in an ideal world, maybe the code of conduct committee could in such a case suggest a different way / venue to proceed.  I realize that this is asking for a lot.

Best wishes,

Martin

[John H Palmieri]

Hi Martin,

The Code of Conduct Committee typically does let the author of a comment know if the committee hides the comment, with an explanation. Or at least the committee strives to do this.

Regards,

  John

[Matthias Koeppe]

On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 2:19:36 PM UTC-7 David Roe wrote:

We are starting this thread for two reasons.

1. Kwankyu asked for clarity on who can mark comments as off topic.

2. You marked this comment as off-topic, which asked for clarification on the action you had just taken removing the disputed label, and then several additional comments on that PR.

Since our project is fairly new to github, we have not yet developed norms for using its moderation features.  We are starting this thread to discuss such norms with the community.  We made one proposal, but are open to others, which is why we asked for discussion rather than a vote.

Forgive me for using the Socratic method, but do you understand what the function of this standard GitHub functionality ("mark comment as off-topic") is?

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 7:24:03 AM UTC+9 Martin R wrote:

...  It appears to me that there is no consensus among the dozen or so contributors in what is considered off topic or offensive. 

Any criterion on the content of the comment that can be considered "off topic"  or "spam" may risk obscurity and another disputes.

I think it is simple and clear to designate who has the right to judge and act.  Possible candidates are

1. The author of the PR/Issue

2. Seniors with the Maintainer role

3. The Code of Conduct Committee

I am inclined to (1) or (2) since CCC may be slow to act for local concerns. (2) has the risk of disputes among the seniors, but then CCC may have the final say. 

For (2), we may need to discuss in a wider scope (of governance).

 

[Dima Pasechnik]

On 22 August 2024 22:37:17 BST, Matthias Koeppe <matthia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 2:19:36 PM UTC-7 David Roe wrote:
>
>We are starting this thread for two reasons.
>
>1. Kwankyu asked for clarity on who can mark comments as off topic.
>2. You marked this comment

><https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38219#issuecomment-2283629487> as

>off-topic, which asked for clarification on the action you had just taken
>removing the disputed label, and then several additional comments on that
>PR.
>
>Since our project is fairly new to github, we have not yet developed norms
>for using its moderation features. We are starting this thread to discuss
>such norms with the community. We made one proposal, but are open to
>others, which is why we asked for discussion rather than a vote.
>
>
>Forgive me for using the Socratic method, but do you understand what the
>function of this standard GitHub functionality ("mark comment as
>off-topic") is?

Socratic method has its downsides. I suggest perusal of <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Socrates>

Sufficiently upset Sage jurors might end up ordering the new Socrates something like drinking a liter of stale McDonalds decaf coffee, or something even more cruel.




>

[Matthias Koeppe]

I'll help: Per https://docs.github.com/en/communities/moderating-comments-and-conversations/managing-disruptive-comments

"Organization moderators, and anyone with write access to a repository, can hide comments on issues, pull requests, and commits.

If a comment is off-topic, outdated, or resolved, you may want to hide a comment to keep a discussion focused or make a pull request easier to navigate and review. Hidden comments are minimized but people with read access to the repository can expand them."

You will note that the reasons for hiding comments as off-topic, outdated, or resolved are entirely practical.

It has nothing to do with "conduct".

It's therefore in the realm of Maintainer actions and outside of the narrow charge of the CoC committee.

[Dima Pasechnik]

On 23 August 2024 06:09:10 BST, Matthias Koeppe <matthia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 3:32:16 PM UTC-7 Matthias Koeppe wrote:
>
>On Thursday, August 22, 2024 at 2:19:36 PM UTC-7 David Roe wrote:
>
>We are starting this thread for two reasons.
>
>1. Kwankyu asked for clarity on who can mark comments as off topic.
>2. You marked this comment

><https://github.com/sagemath/sage/pull/38219#issuecomment-2283629487> as

>off-topic, which asked for clarification on the action you had just taken
>removing the disputed label, and then several additional comments on that
>PR.
>
>Since our project is fairly new to github, we have not yet developed norms
>for using its moderation features. We are starting this thread to discuss
>such norms with the community. We made one proposal, but are open to
>others, which is why we asked for discussion rather than a vote.
>
>
>Forgive me for using the Socratic method, but do you understand what the
>function of this standard GitHub functionality ("mark comment as
>off-topic") is?
>
>
>I'll help: Per
>https://docs.github.com/en/communities/moderating-comments-and-conversations/managing-disruptive-comments
>"Organization moderators, and anyone with write access to a repository, can
>hide comments on issues, pull requests, and commits.
>If a comment is off-topic, outdated, or resolved, you may want to hide a
>comment to keep a discussion focused or make a pull request easier to
>navigate and review. Hidden comments are minimized but people with read
>access to the repository can expand them."
>
>You will note that the reasons for hiding comments as off-topic, outdated,
>or resolved are entirely practical.
>It has nothing to do with "conduct".
>It's therefore in the realm of Maintainer actions and outside of the narrow
>charge of the CoC committee.

Note that hiding comments, as off-topic, or whatever, can constitute misconduct.