spoken languages and banner translations

[Frédéric Chapoton]

Hello,

if you speak interesting languages, could you please have a look at

https://wiki.sagemath.org/CorporateIdentity

and either check the text of existing banners or suggest new translations ? The reference for the translations is the english text : "open source mathematics".

thanks,

Frédéric

[Dima Pasechnik]

I think one does not translate "open source" in Dutch. (maybe you can write "opensource" or "open bronnen")

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[Frédéric Chapoton]

So should I replace "wiskunde met vrije licentie" by "open bronnen wiskunde" ? 

This would be a more accurate translation, maybe ?

[Dima Pasechnik]

yes, sure. 

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[Nils Bruin]

Oh my, those logos are absolutely atrocious! Never mind the translation: the text is clipped to incomprehensibility anyway (at least when displayed in firefox) -- and that includes the english language one. On the plus side, these logos are so obviously bad that I don't think anybody reasonable will consider using them.

Concerning the dutch translation: Especially for professional/business terminology, the Netherlands have a strong preference for just borrowing the english term (this may be a bit different in Flemish-Belgium), so "open source mathematics" or "open source wiskunde" sounds completely acceptable to me. The most direct translation "vrije broncode wiskunde" sounds a little strange. It would need to be "wiskundige software met open broncode" which doesn't really have a punch. Using "bronnen" (sources) has no software association in dutch at all, so it would seem that it's about mathematics that uses available (historical?) sources rather than secret ones.

As anecdotal evidence of use of english terms in official dutch communication meant for a dutch audience:

https://www.rivm.nl/bevolkingsonderzoeken-en-screeningen/bevolkingsonderzoek-organisatie/broncode-vrijgegeven

(note uses of "open source", "ICT" (meant as an english acronym, although a translation would have the same letters). Indeed, a good effort in using the word "broncode" in various places.

[Frédéric Chapoton]

Hello,

I have now fixed a few svg issues, that were preventing the correct display of text in firefox. It was working in chrome.

Nils, would you be so kind as to tell more precisely what you find so atrocious ? Colors ? shapes ? text ? everything ? any suggestions for improvements ?

also, if some users of other browsers could please tell if the logos now display correctly ?

Frédéric

[John H Palmieri]

Does anyone have experience working with graphic designers? How much would it cost to get a logo designed by a professional?

[Reimundo Heluani]

My brother is one, and I've tried dealing in the private market before. I'd say the variation is (0,\infty). Also there's a huge difference between amateurs and professionals so that kind of justifies the price variance, but if it was my choice, I'd ask the graphics designer of my institute (to say a generic one, I suppose most have someone that designs banners) and I'd offer him his normal honoraries for the rights

R

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[Kwankyu Lee]

On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 7:08:04 AM UTC+9 John H Palmieri wrote:

Does anyone have experience working with graphic designers? How much would it cost to get a logo designed by a professional?

+1 for designing the logo anew. I never liked the amateurish logo. Now Sage deserves a better logo!

 

[Nico Van Cleemput]

Op zo 4 jul. 2021 om 19:27 schreef Nils Bruin <nbr...@sfu.ca>:

Concerning the dutch translation: Especially for professional/business terminology, the Netherlands have a strong preference for just borrowing the english term (this may be a bit different in Flemish-Belgium), so "open source mathematics" or "open source wiskunde" sounds completely acceptable to me. The most direct translation "vrije broncode wiskunde" sounds a little strange. It would need to be "wiskundige software met open broncode" which doesn't really have a punch. Using "bronnen" (sources) has no software association in dutch at all, so it would seem that it's about mathematics that uses available (historical?) sources rather than secret ones.

No, I would not say it is different in Flemish Dutch. There might be some purists that try to translate everything, but those translations always feel slightly off, and the majority will use English terminology like "open source".

Nico

[Michael Orlitzky]

On Sun, 2021-07-04 at 18:12 -0700, Kwankyu Lee wrote:
>
> +1 for designing the logo anew. I never liked the amateurish logo. Now Sage
> deserves a better logo!
>
>

There's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be had. If you start with
Harald's logo from

https://github.com/sagemath/artwork

and delete all of the noise, for example, you get something
respectable. Let's see if I can attach it...

[Nils Bruin]

On Sunday, 4 July 2021 at 12:51:58 UTC-7 Frédéric Chapoton wrote:

Nils, would you be so kind as to tell more precisely what you find so atrocious ? Colors ? shapes ? text ? everything ? any suggestions for improvements ?

The clipping is what led me to the adjective. That's fixed now.

The rest is taste. These logos are not to my taste. I have no particular issue with the colors. I think the angular "bent pipes" aesthetics of the logo make it look very dated to me. It's the kind of look that I associate with the 80's, maybe? The polytope works quite well in my opinion: it's a step away from the first obvious ones; it is a little busy (that's a minus), but it is very recognizable. I'm not so sure about the new circular version. I think the logo clashes very badly with it though: the rounded shapes don't go well with the very angular logo at all (but then I have a dislike for its typography to begin with). The same for the subscipt text on the translated logos: I cannot judge for the non-latin scripts, but the cursive slightly serif-ed font clashes (at least to my eye) horribly with the logo; they don't blend into a unity at all. Again: these things are subjective taste. However, if you're going to design logos for public consumption, you'll be faced with many different tastes and preferences.

I have no advice on how to improve. Graphic design is a difficult art. I know (from experience) that house-style redesigns are usually resisted and even if you pay a lot of money for it, the result is highly variable. Most of the time, people learn to live with the new design eventually. Sometimes, the design grows on people once they get used to it. That hasn't happened to me for the sage logo typography.

 

[Kwankyu Lee]

On Monday, July 5, 2021 at 9:52:21 PM UTC+9 Michael Orlitzky wrote:

There's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be had. If you start with
Harald's logo from

https://github.com/sagemath/artwork

and delete all of the noise, for example, you get something
respectable. 

I don't like the font or shape of the logo, which is a play with characters for sci-fi connotation. As a word, the logo is not read smoothly with my eyes. Since I am not native to English, I thought this feeling is just mine. 

 

[Frédéric Chapoton]

Kwankyu, may I presume that you are korean or speak korean ?

If so, would you please tell if the korean banner is translated correctly, or suggest a better translation ?

Frédéric

[Kwankyu Lee]

Hi Frédéric.

On Thursday, July 8, 2021 at 1:40:02 AM UTC+9 Frédéric Chapoton wrote:

Kwankyu, may I presume that you are korean or speak korean ?

I am Korean.

 

If so, would you please tell if the korean banner is translated correctly, or suggest a better translation ?

The Korean translation correctly translates "open source mathematics". 

For the English banner itself, I think that "open source mathematics software" reads better. But I understand it is too long to fit with the logo...

Thank you for taking care of this!

Kwankyu