VOTE: move Sage development to Github

[David Roe]

Dear Sage developers,

Following extensive discussion, both recently (prompted by issues upgrading the trac server) and over the last decade, we are calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac to Github.  We've created a summary of the pros and cons of each system, a description of the development model to be used on github, and a trac ticket for coordinating work on the transition.  More work will need to be done to carry out the actual transition once voting is complete.

The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday, October 5.  Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in favor of either system.

Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer.  By definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow.  Anyone who has ever contributed to the Sage code base or who maintains a Sage user package is welcome to vote.

David

[Edgar Costa]

+1 for Github

[David Joyner]

+1 for Github

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[William Stein]

+1 for Github

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[David Roe]

+1 for Github

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/CACLE5GB%3D%3De4Abi-DA8NKoA6CdmocQZceyzOqin9Gpzw4MHZn8g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Matthias Koeppe]

+1 for Github

[Trevor Karn]

+1 for Github

[julian...@fsfe.org]

+1 for GitHub

[Yuan ZHOU]

+1 for Github

[Dima Pasechnik]

+1 to GitHub

[David Lowry-Duda]

+1 for Github

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[Benjamin Hackl]

+1 for GitHub.

[Fredrik Johansson]

+1 for GitHub

[David Ayotte]

+1 for Github.

[Ricardo Buring]

+1 for GitHub

[John Cremona]

+1 for GitHub 

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[Volker Braun]

+1 for github

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 7:23:36 PM UTC+2 David Roe wrote:

[G. M.-S.]

+1 for GitHub (if I am allowed to vote).

Guillermo

[Jaap Spies]

+1 for Github

Op wo 21 sep. 2022 19:23 schreef David Roe <roed...@gmail.com>:

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[Kwankyu Lee]

+1 for Github

[dmo...@deductivepress.ca]

+1 for Github

[Jing Guo]

+1 for Github

[Travis Scrimshaw]

-1

[Nathan Dunfield]

+1 for GitHub

[Rusydi H. Makarim]

+1 for Github

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022, 07:15 Nathan Dunfield, <nat...@dunfield.info> wrote:

+1 for GitHub

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[Priyanshu Rai]

+1 for GitHub. Mirroring to GitLab can be considered later.

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 8:45:22 AM UTC+5:30 Nathan Dunfield wrote:

+1 for GitHub

[Clement Pernet]

+1 for Github.

Le 21/09/2022 à 19:23, David Roe a écrit :
> Dear Sage developers,
> Following extensive discussion, both recently

> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/Pg-rmYAUBwAJ> (prompted by issues upgrading
> the trac server) and over <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/yBv5MCG9SJY/m/gYOYnRhzDAAJ> the
> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/Xw6CNq1lyiI/m/_XcxeD_kDQAJ> last
> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/z33SLveYiIo/m/CxNxsXnBeNAJ> decade
> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/DmjL8hHJYI8/m/NG9_xmsPbFYJ>, we are calling a vote on
> switching Sage development from Trac <https://trac.sagemath.org/> to Github
> <https://www.github.com/>.  We've created a summary of the pros and cons of each system
> <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac>, a description of the development
> model to be used on github <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/migration-from-trac-to-Git**b>,
> and a trac ticket <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30363> for coordinating work on the transition.

> More work will need to be done to carry out the actual transition once voting is complete.
>
> The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday, October 5.  Please use this
> thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread
> where you can make arguments in favor of either system.
>
> Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion even if you are not a
> core Sage developer.  By definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I
> think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new
> contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow

> <https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/index.html>.  Anyone who has ever contributed to the

> Sage code base or who maintains a Sage user package is welcome to vote.
> David
>

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[Eric Gourgoulhon]

+1 for GitHub

[Harald Schilly]

+1 for GitHub, and GitLab mirror later

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 7:23:36 PM UTC+2 David Roe wrote:

Dear Sage developers,

Following extensive discussion, both recently (prompted by issues upgrading the trac server) and over the last decade, we are calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac to Github.  We've created a summary of the pros and cons of each system, a description of the development model to be used on github, and a trac ticket for coordinating work on the transition.  More work will need to be done to carry out the actual transition once voting is complete.

The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday, October 5.  Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in favor of either system.

Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer.  By definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow.  Anyone who has ever contributed to the Sage code base or who maintains a Sage user package is welcome to vote.

David

[kevin...@gmail.com]

+1 for GitHub

[chris wuthrich]

0    (No real preference and too little understanding of the matter, but very happy that we have a meaningful vote on things like this.)

[Antoine Leudière]

+1 for Github

[Jonathan]

+1 for Github

[Tobias Diez]

+1 for Github

[Martin R]

0    (I like trac, but I am unable and unwilling to contribute to it)

[Clemens Heuberger]

+1 for GitHub

Clemens Heuberger

Am 21.09.22 um 19:23 schrieb David Roe:

> Dear Sage developers,
> Following extensive discussion, both recently

> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/ayOL8_bzOfk/m/Pg-rmYAUBwAJ> (prompted

> by issues upgrading the trac server) and over

> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/yBv5MCG9SJY/m/gYOYnRhzDAAJ> the
> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/Xw6CNq1lyiI/m/_XcxeD_kDQAJ> last
> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/z33SLveYiIo/m/CxNxsXnBeNAJ> decade

> <https://groups.google.com/g/sage-devel/c/DmjL8hHJYI8/m/NG9_xmsPbFYJ>, we are

> calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac

> <https://trac.sagemath.org/> to Github <https://www.github.com/>.  We've created

> a summary of the pros and cons of each system

> <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/Github-vs-Gitlab-vs-trac>, a description
> of the development model to be used on github
> <https://github.com/sagemath/sage/wiki/migration-from-trac-to-Git**b>, and a

> trac ticket <https://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/30363> for coordinating work on

> the transition.  More work will need to be done to carry out the actual
> transition once voting is complete.
>
> The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday, October
> 5.  Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count
> them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in favor
> of either system.
>
> Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion
> even if you are not a core Sage developer.  By definition, core Sage developers
> have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of the major arguments
> in favor of github is that it will help bring in new contributors who are not
> familiar with Sage's development workfow

> <https://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/developer/index.html>.  Anyone who has ever

[Martin R. Albrecht]

+1 for GitHub

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[Antonio Rojas]

+1 for GitHub

[Nitish Kumar Sharma]

+1 for Github
as I'm new to open source,it would be easy for me to learn and contribute through github as ik some of it
it would be awesome

On Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 10:53:36 PM UTC+5:30 David Roe wrote:

Dear Sage developers,

Following extensive discussion, both recently (prompted by issues upgrading the trac server) and over the last decade, we are calling a vote on switching Sage development from Trac to Github.  We've created a summary of the pros and cons of each system, a description of the development model to be used on github, and a trac ticket for coordinating work on the transition.  More work will need to be done to carry out the actual transition once voting is complete.

The voting will last until noon Eastern time (16:00 UTC) on Wednesday, October 5.  Please use this thread only for sending votes, to make it easier to count them afterward; there is a parallel thread where you can make arguments in favor of either system.

Finally, I will close with a plea to be involved in this vote and discussion even if you are not a core Sage developer.  By definition, core Sage developers have become comfortable with trac, and I think that one of the major arguments in favor of github is that it will help bring in new contributors who are not familiar with Sage's development workfow.  Anyone who has ever contributed to the Sage code base or who maintains a Sage user package is welcome to vote.

David

[Emmanuel Charpentier]

+1 for Github

Also wishing for contingency plan for re-migrating to self-hosted Gitlab. 

[seb....@gmail.com]

+1 for Github  (personally I still prefer Trac, but the bus factor argument and recruitment of new contributors are more important)

[Marc Mezzarobba]

Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:
> +1 for Github
>
> Also wishing for contingency plan for re-migrating to self-hosted
> Gitlab.

Same here.

--
Marc

[Vincent Delecroix]

-1

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[Anne Schilling]

-1

[Andrey Novoseltsev]

+1 for Github

[Samuel Lelievre]

-1

[Michael Orlitzky]

-1

Proprietary platforms are against the spirit of free software,
science, and mathematics. It is also a step backwards from what we
have now. Microsoft is one of the oldest, most resourceful, and most
consistent enemies of open software and standards. Letting them
control the platform is especially foolish.

An emergency plan to migrate away from Github is less than worthless
because it presumes cooperation from Github. You're planning for a
very special type of disaster that is bad enough to make us want to
leave, but in which all of the data-retrieval APIs (and the data
themselves) remain freely available.

[Matthias Koeppe]

This thread is not for discussion, it's for voting only.

The reason for this policy is that misrepresentations and name-calling can inappropriately influence other voters.

[TB]

-1 (but with the same wish as below)

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[Nils Bruin]

+1 to move to github

[erentar2002]

Do i vote by email or is there a voting page

--

[David Roe]

Just vote by email on this thread; I will tally them on Wednesday.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/sage-devel/51118007-9932-e69f-5eb2-0e6aeb788145%40gmail.com.

[erentar2002]

+1 for github, +2 for gitlab, +3 for selfhosted gitlab.

trac infrastructure should be backed up to not lose information

On 9/23/22 08:37, Emmanuel Charpentier wrote:

--

[Markus Wageringel]

+1 for Github

[Keshav Kini]

+1 for GitHub (hi folks 🙂)

-Keshav

[Simon Brandhorst]

+1 GitHub

[Alex J Best]

+1 for github

[David Roe]

Just a reminder that voting ends tomorrow (noon EDT, 16:00 UTC), so if you've been putting off voting you should do so now.

David

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[Mike Zabrocki]

-1

[Sébastien Labbé]

-1

(if we decide to move out of trac, then +1 for self hosted gitlab)

[sal...@gmail.com]

+1 for github

[David Roe]

Thanks to everyone for voting!  The final results are 46 in favor of moving to Github and 8 against.

There is still a lot of work to be done to carry out the transition, and we'll be coordinating on this wiki page and this trac ticket, as well as various threads on Sage devel.  We will make an announcement prior to running the porting scripts.

I know that not everyone is happy with this decision, but I encourage those who preferred trac to help us figure out how to make both the transition and the Github-based workflow better.  Similarly, for those advocating for regular backups of issues, there is a trac ticket to help coordinate work.

David

On Wed, Oct 5, 2022 at 11:33 AM sal...@gmail.com <sal...@gmail.com> wrote:

+1 for github

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