Re: [aryayouthgroup] HOW THE PISSFULS IN UK ARE THREATENING LABOUR PARTY OVER KASHMIR ISSUE

[Xavier William]

Whether we like it or not will of the Kashmiri people will prevail. In the meantime the billions of dollars which should be spent on improving the condition of the Indian people will have flowed into the coffers of the arms suppliers in the US, Israel and other countries. This will enrich the people of those countries at the expense of our people. This will in turn give rise to self-government movements elsewhere in India such as Punjab and the North East.

Nationalism and national integrity are political dogmas which arose with Napoleon. It became strident in the 19th and 20th centuries ending in the two world wars. The West learned a lesson, that no political problem can be solved by wars. So many countries of Europe such as Russia and Yugoslavia went in for referendums and broke up in tune with the referendum. Even the mighty British have conducted a referendum in Scotland to determine whether the Scots wanted independence from UK though Scotland has been a part of the UK far longer than Kashmir has been a part of India. In fact India was a conglomeration of hundreds of kingdoms united by the British to serve their colonial interests. After independence also we decided stay united in fear of external forces. But now that external threats are almost nil I do not see why referendums as in the UK and Europe cannot be had in India. Once that is done, we can reduce our defence spending to less than a quarter of what it is now and use the money saved to build up India or what is left of it. _ Xavier

On Mon, 11 May 2020 at 21:01, Mohan Natarajan mohannata...@yahoo.co.in [aryayouthgroup] <aryayou...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

dear all

a  posting from another group. see how the pissfuls are threatening the labour party in UK

OVER KASHMIR ISSUE.

OUR SICKULAR MEDIA WILL NOT TOUCH THIS

MOHAN

boycott Labour over Kashmir

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 5Pillars

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1 day ago

 

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Keir Starmer

Over 100 British mosques and Islamic centres have signed a letter to Labour leader Keir Starmer saying they would support a call for Muslims to abstain from voting for Labour unless it supports Kashmir’s right to self-determination.

The letter came after Starmer described the Kashmir dispute as a “bilateral issue” between India and Pakistan after a meeting with an Indian lobby group at the end of last month.

Starmer’s comments caused outrage among Muslims and eventually led to several Labour Muslim MPs reiterating their support for Kashmiri rights.

The Labour leader has since said that the party’s position on Kashmir has not changed and that it recognises previous UN resolutions on the rights of the Kashmiri people.

Here is the letter from the mosques in full:

We, the undersigned members of the Muslim community living in the UK (many of whom have families in South Asia), are writing to express our utter shock at the contents of your letter in which you clearly express unflinching support for the Indian Government’s position on Kashmir.

This, at a time when the very same Indian Government is engaging in anti-Muslim rhetoric and failing to protect the Indian Muslim community from populist violence, and enacting laws that will potentially render 40 million Muslim citizens in India stateless, which as you well know contravenes international law.

Muslim coronavirus patients are being turned away from hospitals. Kashmir itself has been in lockdown for more than eight months now. India, under the premiership of Narendra Modi, is stepping away from being one of the world’s largest democracies and hurtling instead towards becoming a fascist-led authoritarian state where minorities, Muslims and others, no longer feel safe or protected. It is the members of this very same hate-fuelled ideology who assassinated Mahatma Gandhi.

We wish to remind you that Kashmir is not a bilateral issue, evidenced by the 11 UN Security Council Resolutions which declare Kashmir a disputed territory and that the people of Kashmir have the right to self-determination, something which was enshrined in India’s constitution under Article 370. The meeting at the Security Council last year on 16th August 2019 is further evidence that this is not just a bilateral issue between India and Pakistan.

It is one of the world’s oldest unresolved territorial conflicts that has the potential to lead India and Pakistan into a devastating nuclear war which would have global repercussions. You have not only completely disregarded the international element of the conflict but have also pointedly ignored the Labour Party’s own resolution, voted in at the 2019 conference, which states:

“[We] accept that Kashmir is a disputed territory and the people of Kashmir should be given the right to self-determination in accordance with UN resolutions. The Labour Party to stand with the Kashmiri people fighting against occupation, this is vital as we stand for social justice and ethical foreign policy.”

It would seem to us that holding foreign governments to account over their discriminatory policies and human rights abuses does not seem to be a foreign policy goal under your leadership. As a former barrister, you will clearly be aware of the seriousness of India’s violation of UN resolutions. In addition, you, as the new leader of the Labour Party ought to shoulder greater responsibility on this issue given that the partition which led to this conflict was overseen by a Labour government at the time.

Indian occupation forces in Kashmir

It seems to us that there is an ingrained view that the British Muslim vote has and always will be a secure one for the Labour Party, to be taken for granted with little consideration of the issues and concerns which matter to us as British Muslim communities. In view of the concerns raised above, we strongly urge you to reconsider the party’s position.

We hereby state in no uncertain terms that should you fail to modify your position on the issue of Kashmir and by extension, the plight and oppression of the large Indian Muslim minority within India, then we will consider the Labour Party to have simply taken advantage of the Muslim community.

We will, therefore, have no option but to support a call for the Muslim community to abstain from voting for Labour at all upcoming elections. We hope that this will not be necessary and that the Labour Party will continue to stand against human rights abuses wherever they may be. We urge you not to underestimate the strength of our feeling on this issue.

Yours sincerely,

Federation of Redbridge Muslim Organisations (FORMO) – 17 organisations
Hazrat Sultan Bahu Trust – 22 centres
Indian Muslim Federation UK
Muslim Association of Kent – 20 organisations
South East London & Kent Council of Mosques (SELKOM) – 7 organisations
Waltham Forest Council of Mosques (WFCOM) – 9 organisations
Al-Hira Masjid Newham
Academy of Inspiration
Al Ansar Masjid
Al-Emaan Centre (Keston Mosque)
Al Madina Mosque Barking
Al Noor Foundation
Anjuman-e-Islamia Newham
Apex Trust
Association of Muslim Lawyers
Attiq Malik on behalf of Liberty Law
Barking Muslim Social and Cultural Society
Brent Central Mosque
BWA Muslim Cultural Centre (New Cross Mosque)
Chingford Islamic Society
Gardens of Peace Muslim Cemetery
Faizan-e-Islam
Finsbury Park Mosque
Ghosia Masjid WFIA (Lea Bridge Road Mosque)
Great Barr Muslim Foundation Birmingham
Harrow Central Mosque
Hounslow Jamia Masjid
IG-Soc (“Connecting Muslims in Redbridge”)
Ilford Islamic Centre (Albert Road)
Ilford Muslim Society (Balfour Road)
International Business and Professional Corporation,
Redbridge Jamia Masjid and Islamic Centre (JMIC)
Stoke Poges Lane Masjid
Kent Muslim Welfare Association (Gillingham Mosque)
Lewisham Islamic Centre
Leyton Jamia Masjid MCT
Leytonstone Masjid Majlis-e-Ulama-e-Shia-Europe
Masjid Abu Bakr
Masjid Al Humera Newham
Masjid-e-Owais-e-Qarni (Belgrave Road)
Masjid-e-Quba Newham
Masjid-e-Tauheed Manor Park
Masjid-e-Umer
Masjid Falah
Masjid Tawhid
Muslimah Sports Association
Muslim Public Affairs Committee (MPAC)
Neasden Mosque & Islamic Centre
Newbury Park Mosque
Newham Community Project
Newham North Islamic Association
Noor-ul-Islam
North West Kent Muslim Association (Crayford Mosque)
Pakistan Welfare Association (PWA) Slough
Qur’ani Murkuz Trust (South Woodford Mosque) Redbridge Islamic Centre (Redbridge and Gants Hill) Redbridge Talks
Seven Kings Muslim Educational Trust
Shirley Muslim Association
Sri Lankan Diaspora UK
Tehreek-e-Kashmir UK, London
The Mosque & Islamic Centre of Brent
Ujala Foundation Slough
UKIM Masjid Ibrahim and Islamic Centre Newham

As you’re here…

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Posted by: Mohan Natarajan <mohannata...@yahoo.co.in>

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"All new ideas good or bad, great or small start with a one-man minority" - anonymous

A man without god is a man. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

[BT Yahoo Mail]

Xavier,

You have at all moved on to a topical issue instead harping on the VEDAS crap.

The Kashmir issue is highly serious and UK's Labour Party has got it all wrong.

So the Muslims rightly objected & warned the new Labour leader (Starmer), a raw fellow.

I promptly tweeted the older leader Corbyn on the Muslim stand.

[Xavier William]

There are laws of nature.

There are the fundamental physical and chemical laws according to which all material things such as a grain of sand or the biggest star behaves. The Church boasted that these laws are not tenable. However evidence won against dogma.

Similarly the church opposed evolution and so many things; but the Church lost out in the face of irrefutable evidence.

In like manner, there are economical laws such as the law of supply and demand, the Malthusian doctrine etc. These laws operate only where there are people who exchange goods. Governments can control them for short periods of time.

But in the long run these laws will return to haunt them. Thus various communist governments tried to enforce their own policies which went against fundamental economical laws and we see what has happened to these countries who tried to contravene the forces of economics.

Thus in India, the govt enacted heavy taxes on gold and sugar. The result was smuggling and black marketing. So we had to withdraw these heavy duties since we cannot resist the forces of economics.

Similarly many countries including the mighty US tried to enforce prohibition. The result was the growth of the Mafia. Ultimatedly they were forced to withdraw the irrational controls against the will of the people.

Then there are political laws which are often controlled by the laws of economics. Thus every man wants a political system which he perceives is the best for him.

In the past there were theories like the divine right of kings which went against fundamental political forces. Then there were large empires like those of Egypt, Greece, Rome, Persia, Mongolia, Britain etc. All of them thought that these empires were eternal. But the fundamental forces of politics have razed all these empires which thought they wereinvincible.

Most of the scriptures taught that slavery and caste systems were eternal, because slavery and caste are in tune with an agricultural economy which needs more brawn than brains. But with the Industrial revolution came an educated working class which cannot be enslaved or suppressed. So we have democracy which is in tune with an industrial economy.

Now we have a digital, globalized economy which does not need large territories for markets and raw material sources as in the Industrial age. However habits die hard and we are stuck with the political ideas of nationalism and integrity which were needed for an industrial economy.

In this age of mass media it is a matter of time before a man  in Mangolia has his say in what happens in India. We have already seen this in these times of Covid-19 in which other countries have criticized China for its wanton acts.

We hear that we got independence though our freedom struggle and that South Africa got its independence because of Mandela and their efforts. However the fact is that it was world opinion that forced the ruling powers to give in to the will of the people of India and South Africa. World opinion is a great force in the modern world and it is a matter of time before it forces India to bow to the will of the people whether we like it or not. - Xavier William

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[Xavier William]

Dear Madhampatti,

Thank you for your compliments.

My posts on the Vedas was only in response to Sanghi posts boasting that the Vedas contain science. All I asked for was evidence for the sanghi claim which could be done by citing at least a few verses from the Vedas which has any scientific relevance. Instead of doing that it was you who sort of insulted me and calls me Nasrani as if it has anything to do with Vedas containing science.

The debate on whether the Vedas contain science is still open. Can you cite a single verse from the Vedas which hs scientific relevance. I also cited a verse from the Rig Veda according to which Brahma raped his own daughter.

The proper way to debate is to counter ideas with ideas and not by calling names like Nasrani which is none of your concern.

On Wed, 13 May 2020 at 12:16, Madhampatti53 madham...@gmail.com [Keralites] <Kera...@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

OUR NASRANI FRIEND SEEMS TO HAVE HAD HIS FLASH OF INTELLIGENCE. 

YES, IT WILL BE THE PEOPLE WHO WILL DECIDE WHAT THE FUTURE SHOULD AND WILL BE. 

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE TRIED TO ALTER THE COURSE OF HISTORY BUT FOUND ALL THEIR THEORIES, INCLUDING THEMSELVES, IN THE GARBAGE BIN OF HISTORY.

KEEP IT UP OLE BOY. THIS IS INTELLECTUAL. NOT LIKE THE GARBAGE YOU'VE BEEN DISHING OUT OCCASSIONALY.

MADHUSUDAN P.

A man without god is a man.. A God without man is nothing!!

The greatest knowledge is the knowledge that there is so much more to know and the greatest discovery is the discovery that there is so much more to discover

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Posted by: Madhampatti53 <madham...@gmail.com>

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