243 lT Infinity & Artist R models
47 views
Skip to first unread message
Robert Mcmenis
Jan 7, 2016, 6:01:02 PM1/7/16
to Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum
THE 243 LT INFINITY
I found some information about a 243 Infinity LT The above is the address for the document. When I went to find it using the link, it didn't work.
I was able to download it and attach it to this email.
I hope this attachment will download for those interested.
This model of the 243 has many more of the palette stops than the sample one in the Rodgers web site. In the foundation stops: flutes, principals and diapasons, most stops have the maximum of four per stop. Those same stops on the sample specification on Rodgers web site sometimes have no palette stops or perhaps one.
Just looking at the specification at first glance, it appears that there are four choices for every stop just like the Classic and Artist series. A second glance will spot a few stops that don't have four choices.
Why is this specification not available to view on the Rodgers web site? I suspect that I know the purpose for this specification, but it could still be available for everyone else.
On the UK Rodgers website, it is explained that the library stops can be used as the two library stops that are draw knob stop and/or access them through the pistons. That is,if I read it correctly. It appears that the library stops assigned to a draw knob would function just like any other draw knob stop. And, the library stops that are assigned to the A B pistons would work like the midi pistons do for the MX, etc.
If that is correct why is this information not on the US website? I would think it would boost sales.
Also if I understand correctly, some of the 43 stops on the two manual, 61 stops on the three manual and 84 on the four manual have an L on the name plate which means that on those stops any sample in the library can be assessed to that stop.
All of this sounds so amazing. How did we ever get along with only one memory for the pistons and only one sample per stop?
As a teen I played an organ for church with no pistons at all. Every registration had to be set by hand. What a way to reduce registration changes!
THE ARTIST R MODELS
What happened to the R models? They've vanished from the Rodgers web site!
Some time back, I checked the Rodgers web site after reading some discussion about the new R models here. I found several R models. The R models sound was said to return to the sound of Rodgers from the beginning of Rodgers digital organs through the Masterpiece Signature series.
It was noted that many of the samples on the Rodgers organs from about 2012-2015 were Roland samples. And that Rodgers had return to using Rodgers designed samples making the Infinity and Artist models sound more like the Masterpiece organs and less like an organ from Europe.
What's the deal?
Robert McMenis
Minister of Worship and Organist
Smackover, AR
808 MX/MR
Noel jones
Jan 7, 2016, 7:12:31 PM1/7/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Bob,
If you are interested in buying a new organ, you need to call your local dealer now.
The dealer can get you the information you want easily and quickly.
The fact that the link does not work should tell you something, no?
There are spec sheets created for organ by marketing that may or may not actually reflect an actual organ model. The INFINITY Rodgers do not all have 4 voices for each stop as the Artist and Classic Rodgers do.
INFINITY organs are very powerful but the power is directed into doing certain things that the Artist Organs and Classics cannot do.
"Some time back, I checked the Rodgers web site after reading some discussion about the new R models here. I found several R models. The R models sound was said to return to the sound of Rodgers from the beginning of Rodgers digital organs through the Masterpiece Signature series.
It was noted that many of the samples on the Rodgers organs from about 2012-2015 were Roland samples. And that Rodgers had return to using Rodgers designed samples making the Infinity and Artist models sound more like the Masterpiece organs and less like an organ from Europe.”
Sampling is sampling.
You may have understood that there are Roland samples and Rodgers samples, but they were the same company when this all went on.
There have been different influences on the tonal design of Rodgers over the years. The most recent designs appeared with stop lists that were not American Eclectic Classical stop lists. Eclectic organs sound more like European organs and American organs, which is why they sound Eclectic.
Those organs were designed by a person who preferred European designs, including a Schalmei instead of an Oboe on the Swell. And it is thought that these designs were done in Japan, which may explain the reference to Roland samples.
There were people were not pleased with the stop lists and the sound and as a result Rodgers decided to use other people to create stop lists that restablish the Rodgers as American Eclectic Classic again.
This really has nothing to do with using Rodgers samples and Roland samples, but all to do with the people are making the tonal decisions.
The Rodgers R models may be disappearing from the website but a website has nothing to do with what Rodgers is doing. The R models are being introduced and shipped to dealers as available. The R models were test marketed in the UK, which explains why there is information there, but those designs are not exactly what will be the R models in the USA.
Rodgers dealers in the US did not have access to these organs so it would have been rather counterproductive to put them on the US website.
Those models, by the way, omitted at least one feature that is absolutely necessary in the US market…would you have wanted to find out that you got an organ that doesn’t do what Rodgers organs in the US do today and people rely on?
Bob, and all, Rodgers is in a transition period right now. The advertisements in the AGO magazine and the information on the website are placeholders while the future is being decided. These ads were placed long before this all came up and any kind of announcements about Rodgers and any changes are going to appear on the net in conversations long before they appear in print.
If you are seriously interested in buying an organ, do what everybody else in your shoes does, and call your dealer. If any of us relied on advertising to make decisions…we’d all be driving Edsels.
noel
Noel jones
Jan 7, 2016, 7:14:47 PM1/7/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
On the webpage that Bob has posted, there is an important bit of text at the bottom:
Rodgers Instruments Corporation maintains a policy of continuous improvement of its instruments and therefore reserves the right to change specifications without notice or obligation.
noel
Rodgers de
Jan 7, 2016, 7:31:18 PM1/7/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Robert,
The following link will get you to the Infinity 243 specification at the Rodgers Corporate Website:
http://rodgersinstruments.com/organ243
As you can see, the stop specification is exactly the same: 43 Main Stops, plus 99 Voice Palette Stops.
And yes: Your understanding about the additional 180 LIBRARY ACCESS Organ Stops and Orchestral sounds having moved from the USER/MIDI Couplers (like in the Rodgers Classic and Artist Series) to the dedicated drawknobs marked by an additional ‘L’ in each Infinity model is absolutely correct. Those Library organ and orchestral stops are now accessible directly from those stop drawknobs without occupying any of the MIDI couplers anymore, so you can freely use ALL of the MIDI couplers to play stops or sound from a MX-200 or any other MIDI sound module available in the market.
The ARTIST ‘R’ models went into production about two weeks ago. ALL Artist models are now shipping with the new ‘Tonal Revolution’ stop specifications by default. Yes, these stop specifications bring back all those American Classic stops to the front (in other words: to the main stop specification that are indicated on the engraved tabs/drawknobs) that many organists love so much from the Trillium and Masterpiece factory stop specifications. In addition, all these alternative French Romantic, English and Baroque stops are still there and accessible as Voice Palette stops, so you won’t lose any of these optional voices if you love to play J.S.Bach’s masterpieces with true baroques stops, Vierne’s Organ Symphonies with French-Romantic stops or Edward Elgar’s organ works using authentic English voices.
However, please note that we did not just ‘reshuffle’ all the well-known Main and Voice Palette stops from the original Artist model stop specifications. The ‘Tonal Revolution’ Upgrade introduces many NEW stop samples in order to provide new, truly amazing and authentic new single stops but also new, thrilling Organ Types by implementing new high-resolution stop samples.
Those who may already own an ‘original’ Artist model and may be interested in the ‘Tonal Revolution’ version, just contact your dealer for options to upgrade your organ to the new ‘R’ version.
I’m sure you won’t regret to upgrade…
More information about the Artist ‘R’ versions will certainly become available through the Rodgers Corporate website soon – and those information will be surely complete and accurate ;)
Dieter Schuster
(Rodgers International Business Development Manager)
--
This group is sponsored by Frog Music Press - www.frogmusic.com.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rodgersusersfo...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rodgersusersforum.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rodgersusersforum/1128429115.1763915.1452207658197.JavaMail.yahoo%40mail.yahoo.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Noel jones
Jan 7, 2016, 9:48:14 PM1/7/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
Nelson Dodge
Jan 8, 2016, 11:21:45 AM1/8/16
to Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum, rmcm...@sbcglobal.net
Dieter Schuster provided some clarification above on the question of how Library stops work on the Artist and Infinity models. Let me add some more....
First--nothing has changed in the way these features function on Artist or Infinity models--UK and US models all work the same way.
The reference to "accessing Library voices on the pistons" is explaining that typically you would use a Library voice as part of a registration that is saved to a General piston (combination memory). On the Classic and Artist models, the Library voices (called USER voices on those models) are accessed via the USER/MIDI pistons. On Infinity models the Library voices are accessed via the "L" drawknobs in each division.
So there are trade offs: on the Classic and Artist models, you have the choice of how to use each USER/MIDI A & B piston: as a Library (USER) voice OR as a MIDI channel to access am external sound module or keyboard. On the Infinity models, using a Library voice makes the default and Voice Palette voices unavailable on that particular drawknob. And when you look at the specific drawknobs that access the Library voices, you see that the regular voices are ones that you would typically NOT need when using any Library voice. And BTW--on Infinity, the MIDI A/B coupler pistons only control the MIDI channels and do not interact the Library voices.
Using Library voices works hand-in-hand with the combination memory. To use Library voices in performance you MUST SAVE the entire registration to a General or Divisional piston after you set select the voice (on the USER/MIDI piston on Classic & Artist, on the L drawknob on Infinity), set the Level parameter, and any other parameters you want to adjust.
Why MUST you save the Library voice (and the adjusted parameters) to a General or Divisional piston? (you ask!)
Because, on these SSC-based organs, the combination memory saves the complete STATE of every stop and MIDI coupler. Most organists do not realize this or understand what it means, but it is a powerful feature when you do understand it and use it as intended.
The STATE of a stop includes:
Bottom line--when you recall General & Divisional pistons, you are constantly changing voice selections, and parameters for the USER/MIDI or Library stops, even if those Library stops and MIDI pistons are OFF. This is why it is essential to have Library voices (with all parameters set) saved to a combination piston to be recalled during performance, OR have the Library voice and parameters set, but the stop turned off when you save it the combination memory if you intend to turn it manually during performance as part of that registration.
My book The Power Player's Guide to Roland & Rodgers Organs is primarily about all of the above, with entire chapters devoted to Library voices, MIDI, and using combination memory. And there is another chapter on how to use external memory since there are substantial differences in how external memory works among the various models.
It is relatively easy to lose control of your registrations when you're not thinking about how the voices change (or even aware that they do) when recalling combinations. This is especially true when you recall a combination someone else set--you could have all sorts of VP changes and/or Library voices (and parameters) change, and if you then start setting your own combinations, you may not be getting the voices or parameters you think you are, or want.
OK--so there is a PANIC button!
It's called DEFAULT STOPS. Pressing this piston sets all stops back to the defaults. Some smaller models don't have this piston, but the function is available on all models by pressing & holding CANCEL for about 3 seconds until you see "Default Voice Palette" appear in the window. Note that on models that have the Default Stops piston, this piston will reset all stops to the defaults WITHOUT cancelling the stops that are on. Using the CANCEL piston to reset to the defaults ALSO turns all stops off. Also note that on Classic & Artist models there are defaults for the USER/MIDI A/B tabs/pistons too....and these defaults can be set to whatever voice & parameters you might want them to be if you don't like the factory defaults!
Ahhhh.....so many features!
First--nothing has changed in the way these features function on Artist or Infinity models--UK and US models all work the same way.
The reference to "accessing Library voices on the pistons" is explaining that typically you would use a Library voice as part of a registration that is saved to a General piston (combination memory). On the Classic and Artist models, the Library voices (called USER voices on those models) are accessed via the USER/MIDI pistons. On Infinity models the Library voices are accessed via the "L" drawknobs in each division.
So there are trade offs: on the Classic and Artist models, you have the choice of how to use each USER/MIDI A & B piston: as a Library (USER) voice OR as a MIDI channel to access am external sound module or keyboard. On the Infinity models, using a Library voice makes the default and Voice Palette voices unavailable on that particular drawknob. And when you look at the specific drawknobs that access the Library voices, you see that the regular voices are ones that you would typically NOT need when using any Library voice. And BTW--on Infinity, the MIDI A/B coupler pistons only control the MIDI channels and do not interact the Library voices.
Using Library voices works hand-in-hand with the combination memory. To use Library voices in performance you MUST SAVE the entire registration to a General or Divisional piston after you set select the voice (on the USER/MIDI piston on Classic & Artist, on the L drawknob on Infinity), set the Level parameter, and any other parameters you want to adjust.
Why MUST you save the Library voice (and the adjusted parameters) to a General or Divisional piston? (you ask!)
Because, on these SSC-based organs, the combination memory saves the complete STATE of every stop and MIDI coupler. Most organists do not realize this or understand what it means, but it is a powerful feature when you do understand it and use it as intended.
The STATE of a stop includes:
- It's On/Off state
- The active voice--VP0, VP1, VP2, VP3, or Library Voice + all parameter values)
The STATE of a USER/MIDI piston includes:
- It's On/Off state
- The User or MIDI channel state (On Infinity this is MIDI mode only)
- The Library voice + all parameters (if in USER mode--does not apply to Infinity)
- The MIDI parameters (if in MIDI mode)
Bottom line--when you recall General & Divisional pistons, you are constantly changing voice selections, and parameters for the USER/MIDI or Library stops, even if those Library stops and MIDI pistons are OFF. This is why it is essential to have Library voices (with all parameters set) saved to a combination piston to be recalled during performance, OR have the Library voice and parameters set, but the stop turned off when you save it the combination memory if you intend to turn it manually during performance as part of that registration.
My book The Power Player's Guide to Roland & Rodgers Organs is primarily about all of the above, with entire chapters devoted to Library voices, MIDI, and using combination memory. And there is another chapter on how to use external memory since there are substantial differences in how external memory works among the various models.
It is relatively easy to lose control of your registrations when you're not thinking about how the voices change (or even aware that they do) when recalling combinations. This is especially true when you recall a combination someone else set--you could have all sorts of VP changes and/or Library voices (and parameters) change, and if you then start setting your own combinations, you may not be getting the voices or parameters you think you are, or want.
OK--so there is a PANIC button!
It's called DEFAULT STOPS. Pressing this piston sets all stops back to the defaults. Some smaller models don't have this piston, but the function is available on all models by pressing & holding CANCEL for about 3 seconds until you see "Default Voice Palette" appear in the window. Note that on models that have the Default Stops piston, this piston will reset all stops to the defaults WITHOUT cancelling the stops that are on. Using the CANCEL piston to reset to the defaults ALSO turns all stops off. Also note that on Classic & Artist models there are defaults for the USER/MIDI A/B tabs/pistons too....and these defaults can be set to whatever voice & parameters you might want them to be if you don't like the factory defaults!
Ahhhh.....so many features!
Richard Wildhirt
Jan 8, 2016, 3:16:36 PM1/8/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
I remember when John Rose did a demo tape for Associated Organ Builders (AOB), a fledgling analog organ company near me in Auburn, Washington. The company sold a few instruments but never really took off. I'm glad to see Rose's connection with Rodgers.
Richard Wildhirt
St. Luke's Church, Federal Way, WA
Rodgers 940 (c. 1997) and PR-300S with USB upgrade
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Noel jones <no...@frogmusic.com> wrote:
http://www.courant.com/community/newington/hc-newington-digital-music-organ-1010-20151012-story.html
--
This group is sponsored by Frog Music Press - www.frogmusic.com.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rodgersusersfo...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rodgersusersforum.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rodgersusersforum/4FED6C23-B371-4605-AE84-145FACE44CCA%40frogmusic.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
Richard
Edward Stephen Cumming
Jan 8, 2016, 5:49:13 PM1/8/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
I'm glad to see John Rose with Rodgers now. Wasn't he associated with Ahlborn-Galanti at one time? Seems as though he made some recordings for them.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rodgersusersforum/CAC72EGmUiS02C0sCY5mcDzaAG8oFYKtF%3D3uZzE%3DRfok6w-BLRQ%40mail.gmail.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Noel jones
Jan 8, 2016, 7:17:50 PM1/8/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
stephen...@yahoo.com
Jan 9, 2016, 2:02:01 AM1/9/16
to rodgersu...@googlegroups.com
AOB came from the "ashes" of the original Saville Organ Company located in Chicago, IL. The "new" Saville was located in Wichita, KS and owned by a fellow by the name of Harold Garten who owned an organ service company. AOB used the same technology, speakers, etc. that the Saville company used.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rodgersusersforum/CAC72EGmUiS02C0sCY5mcDzaAG8oFYKtF%3D3uZzE%3DRfok6w-BLRQ%40mail.gmail.com.
Message has been deleted
James Hockin
Jan 9, 2016, 9:08:59 AM1/9/16
to Frog Music's Rodgers Organ Users Group Forum, rmcm...@sbcglobal.net
EXCELLENT EXPLANATION! SOUNDS LIKE A BOOK I NEED TO PURCHASE IMMEDIATELY!
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages