The future of SCC kits and PCBs

[Steve Cousins]

I've been considering the question of how much longer I want to keep selling kits and PCBs.

I found myself wondering if anyone might be interest in taking over some or all of the small business.

Steve

[Tadeusz Pycio]

Hi Steve,

I don't think you need to think that way, because you're doing a really great job bringing joy to many users with your excellent products. 
I remember accidentally coming across the SC202 kit and deciding that it was exactly what I was looking for, even though I had my own designs and was using an N8VEM bus computer.
Business is business, sometimes it is better, sometimes worse, and key decisions should not be made on this basis. Thanks to this, customers have access to really good products.

[Jeff Greer]

It would be hard for anyone to maintain Steve's quality and excellence.

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[Fraser]

First I will say thank you for starting the business!

I understand you probably have multiple reasons for considering this solution.

I'm not sure but would streamlining your operation (reducing the number of kits), make a difference?
While I love the variety and enjoyed the research in selecting the exact right kits for myself, I think this is probably one of the harder parts for someone early in their learning of the RC2014 systems, your recent response here "SCC hardware platform" breaking it down really clarified some of the details I'd guessed at. 

I think answers to some of the following questions would probably help folks determine if they want more information. 

Which parts of the business could be broken off?
Are there other countries/regions (besides UK) where volume is high enough that a drop shipper inside the country would be a good option?

Time: How many hours/week fulfilling orders, customs forms? 

How many hours/month on other business activities? (Accounting, Documentation, Support etc).

Storage: How much space is occupied by kits and shipping supplies, etc? Closet/Wardrobe or bedroom or car space in the garage?

Product Line: It seems that your product line is stable, so I'm curious if your interest is in staying busy in a creative capacity with new products vs the day to day shipping?

Actual financial questions costs\profit margin, etc are best left to private conversations with individuals who are truly interested.

I really do want to Thank You for the effort you've put into your documentation. I've always been able to find the answer to my questions by reading the documentation and schematics and PCB silkscreens! This has been one of the biggest benefits of buying from you. 

Thanks!

[David Reese]

On 9/5/25 10:54, Steve Cousins wrote:

I've been considering the question of how much longer I want to keep selling kits and PCBs.

I'd hate to see you stop selling your systems, but that has to be a personal decision.  I still have, and still treasure, my SC126.
Your designs are very impressive and well considered.

I found myself wondering if anyone might be interest in taking over some or all of the small business.

I don't know beans from white rice about running a business, but I do know this:  anyone who took over for you would have to be
a retro enthusiast and a business-savvy individual.  You put a lot into what you do, and it shows.

A critical part for anyone to consider would be the supply chain.  In our present "interesting times",
that might prove exceptionally interesting.

Warm Regards,
David

[Dean Netherton]

Hi Steve,

May I inquire what's making you consider moving away from selling your kits/pcbs?  

I have always used your approach as a standard to aspire to (that I doubt I could ever achieve).  The disciplined consistent and thorough documentation of your products seems amazing to me - and I suspect is very helpful for novice and expert alike.  Its specially amazing, given the number of products you have listed.  

Whatever you decide mate, I tip my hat.

Cheers

Dean

[Steve Cousins]

Thanks for the kind words, encouragement, questions and comments.

So I've been thinking about how much longer I want to continue selling kits and PCBs. I'll try to explain why.

I think the main reason is the time it takes, but there are many other factors.

I really like the community here, although I haven't been a very active member recently (time???). I like designing things, which is probably why I have so many kits. I get a lot of satisfaction from producing something I'm happy with and that others like.

What isn't as much fun is all the time I've spent putting together thousands of orders, managing all the stock, ordering components, putting the little bits in bags, keeping business records, etc. The novelty wears off after a few thousand orders. What started off as a hobby, now feels like work. I spend most of my 'hobby time' doing the less pleasant stuff and have little time and enthusiasm left for the nice bits. I have many projects, such as improving and extending SCM, which I'm just not getting to do.

I also have that little itch to do some other techy things. I have some ideas and, given my track record, I'll probably drift into turning those into a new business or two. It must be in my blood!

Just dropping some of the kits probably wouldn't help much and would leave holes in the range. I think dropping one or more regions of the world might help. The US accounts for about half of my orders, I think. Splitting off one bus system, like my Z50Bus range, might work. Splitting the business isn't ideal as nearly all the overheads of sourcing components, business records and the space it all takes, would still be required. My feeling is when I stop selling kits and PCBs it will probably be all of them in one go.

Time? I don't have a break down of times but I'll take a guess. I typically spend two or three hours a day putting kits together and packing orders. I guess managing stock and ordering takes a hour or so a day on average. I tend to do design and documentation in bursts (solid days) but I think it would now only average less than a day a week. Managing my shops and my website seems to take a lot of time, but like design work it is intermittent in nature. I think it probably now only averages about half a day a week. I think overall I probably spend about 20 hours a week ordering parts, managing stock, putting kits together, packing orders and taking them to the post. Plus about 10 hours a week on documentation, managing shops and website, and managing the business.

Storage/space? All of this takes up an area of about 3m (10 feet) by 4m (13 feet).

Product line? I think I could dream up more designs but that's more because I like doing that, rather than there being any real need. When combined with the products offered by others, I think the community is pretty well served now. Realistically, my 'business' doesn't have as much scope for new designs as it did. The future 'business' is largely a hamster wheel of ordering, packing and shipping.

I do make enough money to pay for my hobbies, but I'm 65 now and I'll qualify for my state pension in just over a year. That will provide money for hobbies.

I'm finding it difficult to answer the question of how much longer I want to continue selling kits and PCBs.
Remember: failure to plan is a plan to fail.

Comments and questions appreciated.

Steve

[Paul Hunt]

Steve, obviously we don't know (or need  to know!) your financial position, but could it make sense to take on someone reliable on for a few hours per week to handle the more mundane aspects of the business?

Maybe you'd need to increase your pricing slightly?  For me, and perhaps many other hobbyists,  the end-game is not really about saving money - it is more of an investment in  well-being. 

This way, you could devote more of your energy into your passion.  Just a thought...

Paul

[Jon Jones]

So it sounds like you enjoy the design side of things but the day-to-day running of a small business isn’t your cup of tea. I’m sure there are plenty of people who’d be happy to have a small side line in helping run a very small business. (If I was closer to retirement I’d put my own hand up!)

I suspect that if you wound down the current Z80 kits, you’d only make another monster in a short while with your new ideas and be back with the same problem.

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[Ed Porter]

On 06/09/2025 02:14, Steve Cousins wrote:
> Thanks for the kind words, encouragement, questions and comments.
>

> What isn't as much fun is all the time I've spent putting together
> thousands of orders, managing all the stock, ordering components,
> putting the little bits in bags,

Have you considered selling just PCBs with instructions? Or maybe just
including the main IC (a known good Z180, an SIO, etc). I've enjoyed the
convenience of building a few of your excellent kits (and I think I've
kept all the little bits of antistatic foam, too :) ) but I'm sure I
would still have done many of them even if I'd had to source the parts
myself.

-ed

[ladislau szilagyi]

I am very sad to hear these news.
Steve helped me build my first Z80 retro computer five years ago.
I learned a lot from him and received advice on programming hardware components to be able to use the interrupt system on the Z80.
He also advised me on how to write the user manual for my Retro Tiny Multitasking kernel for Z80 based computers.
Whatever decision you make, I will remain a big fan of yours, Steve!

regards,
Ladislau

[Mark Durham]

Ed beat me to it but I was thinking about this over night and was thinking along the same lines and I wonder what thoughts others would have on this....

Whilst it's nice/easy/lazy(!) to be able to purchase a complete kit, would it reduce Steve's workload if he were to supply the PCB and the hard to source components - I'm thinking mainly the Zilog parts. Possibly the single row right angle 40 pin edge conn (with the plastic separator on the correct side of the bend!) and the crystal osc.

That would leave the readily available basic parts like the various 74 series ICs, IC sockets, Rs & Cs, jumpers etc for the builder to source themselves locally and in the process possibly build up their stash of parts as well.

Thoughts?

[Denis Hennessy]

Like many here, I've built several of Steve's kits and have appreciated the convenience and great documentation.

It's easy for a hobby to transform into a commitment, and while some extra income is always welcome, in the words of Marie Kondo, it's important to get rid of things that don't 'spark joy'.

I can think of a few ways to reduce your workload (or at least reduce the amount of work in areas you don't enjoy):

1. Find someone who is happy to prepare and ship the kits while you focus on designing new things and maintaining the website. It might suit someone as a retirement income activity.

2. Find a, probably Chinese, supplier who will prepare the kits for you so that you receive complete, ready-to-ship, kits. Even the shipping could then be handled by a local logistics company, or you could sell through electronics retailers like Pimoroni.

3. Sell just the PCBs while leaving buyers to source the remaining components.

The other thing to consider is raising your prices. Right now, it feels like you're 'supporting' people who enjoy this hobby, but you have a premium product and it could be priced accordingly.

Best,

Denis

[Stefan Pantazi]

Hi Steve, I understand what you are doing and I want to say thank you for everything. The wonderful SCC documentation, website and resources you created and maintained are most valuable and will live on. People will continue to build your projects! It won't be as easy as having a ready-to-build-kit, but the determined ones will still manage, and might even enjoy the hunt for parts and components. Should they encounter sourcing and other problems, or have questions, I am sure someone in this community and likely even yourself will readily provide the necessary guidance. I am personally looking forward to your future designs and projects!

[Andrew Lynch]

Hi Steve

Well, I can certainly understand the feeling.  Prior to late 2015, I designed and supplied PCBs for a prior Z80 SBC ECB design and for an S-100 project.  There were many varieties, so I spent endless hours designing boards, getting them manufactured, and mailed out globally.  It really was a lot of work but a labor of love for the most part.  

Probably for about 12 years or so from 2008 to 2015.  It was a lot of work, and most people were grateful and pleasant to work with.  However, there were some persons who were challenging to deal with that really cast a pall over it -- but only a small minority.  What really took the joy out of it though was when my health started failing in late 2015.  Ended up in the hospital with an extended recovery.  Definitely required putting hobbies aside for a long time while recovering.

I still like designing boards, but since then I just post my designs on GitHub and let people download the Gerbers & BOMs so they can source their own parts.  This has really reduced the stress level to a manageable level.  You might consider doing something like it. 

My advice is to do what you can while you can but don't endanger your health or neglect your family just to fuel everyone else's hobby.  It can be a lot of fun but don't lose balance with the rest of your life.  Hand it over to someone else with more time and energy so they can start fresh.

I wish you the best of luck and thank you for contributing to the homebrew and retro computer hobby.

Merovingian: Choice is an illusion created between those with power and those without.

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[7alken]

Hi Steve, thanks for all you did here till now, hope you will continue some way; I learned lot also from your website documentation, while I found these rc2014/rcbus groups later after building Z80Retro! system with John Winans originally ... so, then I found these groups and RomWBW, and was here when you defined new RCBus, but I was always tending to 3V3 even before I found this, as some chips I wanted to interface with low-power, small size design were 3V3 and I also tried to test even older CMOS chips/processors with that voltage, even if they weren't designed around this at all, as that 3V3 non existed, while technically possible... so I am such intruder here, excuse me ... (( hope its not also your reason slightly

If I would be you, I will simplify my life by providing digital BOMs on mouser/digikey or anywhere its possible, for easy orders (cant imagine how that works logistically in large warehouses, unimaginable for small order ... but its theirs business, they have automation and lowered fees by volume ....) ... as nobody is required to be "slave" of anybody with LOT of money, expecting to buy anything easily or even mounted ... we aren't corporations with full automations/robots etc ... to do anything cheap (and with super-quality as its linked to automation too, period)... In fact, I am planning only few prototypes of anything and then do the same, digital BOMs maybe (if at all) ... if anybody is interested lets dive into sourcing and ordering etc ... its not that easy; initially I was using only mouser with deadly easy fedex to here, digikey had more complex paperwork, even that both have warehouses in germany... but then I started looking for some parts also elsewhere, and still only for prototyping (never considering any home-slavery, which is clear result of "growth") ... and just yesterday I was here managing stock (and lot ahead of me still) of arrived parts in bags, to be described in computer (I use only fs subfolders with simple tags, no stock-warehouse app, nothing) to be found and to know where what is and how much, where are datasheets etc ... ordering by ready made digital BOM of supplier is option I liked, some guys here do this too... I would be using this also ... and you can sell only PCBs, ya, thats fair .... as PCB-shops have minimal volumes, usually complication...

Your most value is experience and information in your head, I think ... you can let ppl pay for this too, if you will be happy with it ))) ... as the new digital experts are cheap, but real one with huge real experience isnt ... and years come, ya, I am 55 now ... but overtired already by all shits around like wars with stupidity, mostly... ((

Probably smartest way of producing anything I saw recently was Troy, making pico9918 ... but its SINGLE thing, ... you have huge sortiment and its looking like big enterprise, quite miracle for 3x4m area ....

cheers,
Petr

[Mikol Ryon]

I think I can understand the feeling. For 15 years or so I did a fairly popular android app (as popular as a fencing app can be ;) and about a year ago it just felt like another job. All the joy was gone and I wasn’t even getting paid. 

But cheers for all the fun you’ve given us!!!

-Mikol

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[Sławomir Zegarliński]

Hi, Steve.

I understand your dilemma.

Thank you for the SC111 PCB, which I bought in 2019. It helped me understand how the Z180 works and sped up my project development. The SC112 was also very helpful.

From my own experience, I know that the greatest joy comes from knowing that someone appreciated my work, trusted me, and built a computer based on my design. Unfortunately, most users remain silent. The number of downloads on the repository doesn't say much either, as the statistics are only from the last two weeks, so it's difficult to estimate the scale of interest.

Being a designer also comes with costs, and that's the flip side of the coin. If you lead a normal life and work to support your family, it's difficult to spend more and more money on your hobby. I followed Tindie and decided I'd give it a try. Admittedly, the computer I'm working on has strong ties to Poland, so selling it abroad doesn't make much sense. Many Poles have emigrated, so there would probably be a few takers. Besides, this is from the 1980s, and biology is inexorable. The pool of potential customers shrinks year by year. New ones appear, but they often treat it as a curiosity.
Selling takes a lot of time because it's not just about packing the shipment. Assembling sets, creating offers in the store, ordering, and checking purchased items takes the place of creating new designs. While some money does come in, it must immediately be spent replenishing the inventory.
The only upside is satisfaction.

Kind regards. Zegar.

P.S. Sorry for Google translate...

[Steve Cousins]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the kind words, suggestions, encouragement and understanding. It really means a lot to me. As Zegar wrote "the greatest joy comes from knowing that someone appreciated my work"

I've given much thought to the comments and suggestions. As a result I've asked a friend to help me put the kits together. I'm also planning to only process orders on specific days of the week. I think this combination will really help.

Any further thoughts and suggestions appreciated.

Many thanks,
Steve

[Jeff Greer]

Steve,

Very nice! Do as your time and motivation allows. I have three of your kits. My all time favorite is the SC126. It is always on my desk ready to go. I usually boot into Z-system or Monitor as my whim decides. It is a great machine, well documented and reliable. 

Thank you, Jeff

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[Kurt Pieper]

Hello Steve,

I'm an absolute fan of your kits.
The precision is unique. The support you provide according to your instructions is very good.
The soldering work was really fun. For example, on the SC126.
It took me about four hours and I still didn't get tired.
It worked right away! Please keep in mind: I'm not a professional electronics technician, but a hobbyist from around 1970.

I have four kits, and all of them worked right away.
I'm 77 today and still curious about this quality.

Thank you, Steve.
I'm having a lot of fun with your Z80/Z180 systems.

I was able to complete my financial accounting project in a short time using the SC126 and Karl's Z80 (20 MHz).

I've been testing the program for about five years, and it still works flawlessly on the SC126.

Of course, I'd miss you.

Should I order something else? I think I do too.

Kurt

Google Translate helped me

[David Hardingham]

Hi Steve

I'd be happy to help. I will be 65 this year and still  working. I have many Z80 kits, some built and some still waiting  to be built, when I retire in a few years time.

Regards

David

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[Francis Pierot]

Hello Steve,

If you remember me, more than 5 years ago I exchanged with you about a few projects and my "Bluety" kit which was a kind of Twin SC129 I/O card with front and back panels with LCD display, LEDs and Switches and various connectors for the blue box we all know. I spent an horrible amount of time designing the PCB and panels, making samples on JLCPCB, finding mistakes, fixing them, making new samples again, and on 4th version I was finally happy with the result and proceeded to make it a kit on Tindie. Sourcing components etc. I think I did everything you did for each of your kits, except packaging and sending the kits : in the end, I found the cost couldn't be less than €100 (box not included) and gave up the idea. I have a fully functional prototype unit and components for 2 kits which will never see the light.

So, having gone from the first idea to the final working prototype, I totally understand you.

Designing can be demanding but is a fun part. I also love to write a great doc and was inspired by the quality level of yours. The rest, sourcing, making it a kit, packaging I guess, is actually another job.

The fact that it is now the biggest part of the time you spend in your hobby can't be sustained for very long.

Maybe this is what should be externally handled. I think you can't be both the engineer and the reseller over a given volume. Also, sometimes you're at the end of what you can expect from your hobby. Seen it all, done it all, although I doubt this can actually happen with our little electronics, and I'm not sure your creative mind has this kind of limit either.

I hope you'll find a way so that the fun part is back to first level, because your retirement would be a terrible loss for this community.

Whatever you decide, I will always have the most respectful admiration for your work and friendly attitude.

Francis

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[Bill Shen]

Steve,

As you can see you have many fans of your products.  Rightly so because you’ve established the gold standard in kits, product documentation, and technical supports.  It is a great accomplishment, but such level of supports and commitments can also take a toll on your personal life.  I don’t think you should walk away from it, but scale back the number of products you sell, make them limited editions, or take some off Tindie list.  Take a few months off, I think you will find renewed enthusiasm to do the things you’ve done so well for so long.   A couple thoughts: 1., I’d love to see you talking, building, and operating your products on YouTube; 2., the products you’ve sold lots of like SC126 and SC114 are probably self sustaining where sizable group of local experts all over the world can debug and support them without your active involvement.  Just empower your fans to help you with selected products and they’ll pitch in.  Take a break, I’m hopeful you’ll return re-energized.

Bill

[Steve Cousins]

Thanks again everyone.

Tomorrow, my friend will be helping me catch up with kit building. I'm hoping this will be a regular event and make it more attractive to carry on. I will probably need to increase my prices to cover the extra costs of paying for help. I probably need to review prices anyway as inflation in the last few years has been very significant.

Jeff: SC126 has proven to be a very stable motherboard. Despite having produced later designs it is still the system I use most. I use my original 126 build from 2019 to test CF adapters, CPUs, USB-serial adapters and SD adapters. Yes, I test all these before shipping. The PCB has been physically stressed thousands of times and it is still reliable. These Chinese PCBs are surprisingly tough.

Kurt: No need to rush. I am now hopeful of continuing at least for a while.

David: Thanks for the offer. I may contact you if current plans don't work out.

Francis: I remember well.

Bill: Thanks for the suggestions. I admire your designs and you provide a lot of support on these forums. You take a different approach to my kit focused products and thus provide a different perspective for the community. Keep up the good work. Are you still producing your own wine?

On Friday, 5 September 2025 at 16:54:12 UTC+1 Steve Cousins wrote:

[Jeff Greer]

Great news, Steve.

The price increases are well deserved.

Thank you!

Jeff

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[Francis Pierot]

Not staying alone to face the sourcing/packaging/shipping stages is a great idea.

The price adjustment is really not a problem considering how low you manage to keep them.

I've always thought your prices were not including your work to keep this quality level, which has set a standard in my mind.

Francis

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[Richard Deane]

I'd be comfortable knowing that you only process once a month or once a quarter. The quality is worth any wait.

Richard

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[Phillip Stevens]

Steve,

Just as an idea, but have you spoken the Spencer about your direction or plans?

He seems pretty settled on the z80kits store as a  full time activity, picking up related products along with his own RC2014 designs. There might be a cooperative path forward. Who knows?

Cheers, Phillip