Advice please!

[C R]

Hello all! :-)

I've recently got started with a SC600 kit and have a few projects in mind. One is already completed (a variable speed clock)
My next project will require some Z80 programming from me (as well as hardware)

I've looked at SBasic (quite like it but documentation seems scarce), Turbo Pascal (I know zilch Pascal) Assembler is a possibility
(some experience with PICs but not Z80)

From the language I'm after good I/O access and also easily read/write to the serial ports.

I'm thinking of doing the programming on my PC. OshonSoft has what looks to be a nice Z80 editor. But at a push I could use ZDE16 on the Z80.  

With this in mind, Can I ask you all which toolchain / path you prefer to use and why?

Many thanks!

Chris

[Alan Cox]

I'm thinking of doing the programming on my PC. OshonSoft has what looks to be a nice Z80 editor. But at a push I could use ZDE16 on the Z80.  

With this in mind, Can I ask you all which toolchain / path you prefer to use and why?

I wrote my own so I use that 8)

For cross building to CP/M in C I'd suggest Z88DK though. I tend to use zmac for assembler specific to CP/M as it's easy to write stuff for CP/M ZMAC that will also build on the modern Zmac cross assembler. ZMAC also has a linker that will link with existing CP/M libraries in standard DRI format.

PASCAL on CP/M is another option but not my personal preference.

Alan

[7alken]

hi, voting also for Z88DK, but in case you want simple assembler with C-source I found very simply written ASMX from Bruce Tomlin, he maintains it in SVN, some guy made github from it and I forked it and converted it back to original allman-style (heretical, I know) + recently added some "namespace prefixes" to the code for better understanding of it (easy in vscode, all C refactoring, reliable, safe ...), as I plan to write assembler for my "interpreter around rv32em-alike asm, enhanced by some CISCy opcodes, this is crazy thing, with possible structured lang on top of C-like syntax (nsa ghidra decompiles this way any assembly to pseudo-C, btw, interesting find also)

so this is modified ASMX:
https://github.com/apws/230831-asmx

and here is yet another (almost) C asm, here I as a try added reduced rv32em by reducing huge 64bit, FP, VEC risc-v ... also as alternative for my asm:
(imho its interesting tool/code too)
https://github.com/apws/250503-naken_asm

(good to have source for everything)

would be cool to have some simple interactive interpreter (forth usually used for this, but that's almost suicide) for testing around hardware (so this is what I am trying to do as fusion of retro and future), but as prequel to this, I experimented with TinyBasicPlus primitive (extendable) Basic interpreter in C (cool is cooperation with "Termite" simple windows terminal to send/load and receive/save small basic routines to target) - I renamed this modified thing for myself as "sally", but this basic thing then turned into that interpreted rv32em HLL asm thing "dreaming";
https://github.com/apws/250617-VMEX-research/tree/main/doc/!--prequel-sally/sally-00

totally simple assembler for own experiments (written in archaic K&R C) is 68xx cross assembler from waveguide.se 
(here thanks to Alan for pointing to super video generation article, found here also cool usage of ym2413, ymz284, mc3 computer/monitor, very interesting
... I have collected things for larger post, also read almost all docs of Alan's Fuzix and FCK (big proper C-subset optimizing compiler approach), but busy here with many things yet)
https://www.waveguide.se/?search=mc3

Petr

[Stephen Willcock]

I’m also a fan of z88dk - it’s being actively maintained, is fairly well documented and has a web forum - so many problems have been previously discussed. 

It depends what you’re interested in… I’m most interested in z80 assembly with a bit of C - so this suits me well. 

I use VS Code on a Mac, but it’s obviously available on other platforms, and it has some suitable extensions for ASM and C

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[C R]

Thanks all for your advice and pointers. Greatly appreciated! 

I think the most sensible thing for me is to just dive into the deep end and get to grips with Assembler and the Z88DK

That's going to be an interesting learning curve I suspect! But I think it'll be worth it in the longer term - in gaining a better understanding of the machine

and having more "flexibility" ultimately as well. (That's what I'm repeatedly telling myself)

(The lazy part of me is still very tempted to go an "easier" route(?) like Turbo Pascal or SBasic)

One other question - 

Do you all have a preferred IDE/Editor - Windows specific - which works nicely with writing Z80 assembler?

- apologies for adding in a different question to the original topic - 

Many thanks all!

Chris

[Bill Shen]

For Z80 assembly I mostly use Zilog’s ZDS latest version 3.68, a free download.  It runs nicely on Windows.

Bill

[7alken]

hi, for S-BASIC you mean this kaypro thing? ... do you have it? would be interesting to try (when I see SBasic, I imagine only that specific Sinclar QL, SMSQ/E ...)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-BASIC
if you have this for CP/M, where to get it? I tried to find it, but no success;

Petr

[Richard Deane]

Try this link for an basic zip file

https://web.archive.org/web/20221001143547/http://www.nostalgia8.nl/cpm/basic/sbasic.zip

Richard

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[C R]

Bill, do you have a link to ZDS v3.6? I've been googling for it but so far have drawn a complete blank?

Antos - yes Sbasic is the Kaypro product. It seems to produce fast compiled code from what I can tell.  I've managed to find an actual original manual for it on eBay. Waiting for that to arrive!

[C R]

ZDS v3.68 - Found it:- http://z80-heaven.wikidot.com/ide