New Backplane Pro

[Ron Pool]

Is no one else excited by Spencer's new Backplane Pro for RC2014?

More slots, more control and data lines, no need to solder jumpers (but still provision for inserting isolation resistors)...

[Spencer Owen]

On 22 March 2017 at 14:28, Ron Pool <amp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Is no one else excited by Spencer's new Backplane Pro for RC2014?

I am!

But, hey, I get excited about all my new products ;-)

Also, I know by the weight of the post bag today that there are several other people that are also getting excited by this and the Pageable ROM Module :-)

Spencer 

[Daniel Quadros]

Looks like it is time to buy a second (and improved) RC2014. What about a bundle (the "Full Monty Pro Edition") with the Blackplane Pro, 64K Ram, Clock, Serial I/O, Z80 CPU, Pageable ROM and Compact Flash modules?

Daniel

[Scott Lawrence]

Daaaaaaang.  That's... HYUGE!

Looks like its time for me to get my inline serial drive prototyped out. and attempt to productize it.  Life and work keep getting in the way! :(

Also, looks like it's time for me to rework my RC design to use the pageable ROM module instead of the hacks it's currently using. :D

-s

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 11:02 AM, Daniel Quadros <dqsoft....@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like it is time to buy a second (and improved) RC2014. What about a bundle (the "Full Monty Pro Edition") with the Blackplane Pro, 64K Ram, Clock, Serial I/O, Z80 CPU, Pageable ROM and Compact Flash modules?

Daniel

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[Spencer Owen]

Both the Clock and the Serial I/O modules would benefit from a redesign.  After that there's probably going to be 3 models in the lineup; RC2014 Mini, RC2014 Classic (Full Monty as it is currently) and RC2014 Pro

However, it'll take a little bit of time before we get to that stage :-)

Spencer

On 22 March 2017 at 15:02, Daniel Quadros <dqsoft....@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks like it is time to buy a second (and improved) RC2014. What about a bundle (the "Full Monty Pro Edition") with the Blackplane Pro, 64K Ram, Clock, Serial I/O, Z80 CPU, Pageable ROM and Compact Flash modules?

Daniel

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[Peter W. Borders]

How about combining the clock and something else into a standard sized board. It always bothers me to see a whole slot wasted for the clock. :-)

I bet you could combine the clock and serial board if you used the newer trapezoidal board format (cut corner board). Since they are both really needed in a basic build combining them would be space saver.

Just a thought.

Pete B - WB4TKA

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[David Hardingham]

Yes, I'm very excited. This will be a great addition to the RC2014. I look forward to seeing a new CPU board, with all 40 Z80 pins broken out onto the RC2014 bus. This will be very useful.

Well done Spencer.

[Ron Pool]

Make sure you look through all of the photos on the Backplane Pro tindie page.  I see some other new boards plugged into a Backplane Pro including a new Digital IO and SD Card.  And there must also be a new CPU card at the back.  And one more new one, probably a new Serial board since a complete system needs that or the Pi zero board.  These may or may not be Spencer's final take on these new boards, but final or not they're looking mighty fine.  The orignal style Clock board is looking very much out of place next to the other fine, new boards.

[Jan S]

Great job Spencer. I just ordered the improved backplane (and the new ROM module) :-)

[Spencer Owen]

On 23 March 2017 at 00:30, Ron Pool <amp...@gmail.com> wrote:

Make sure you look through all of the photos on the Backplane Pro tindie page.  I see some other new boards plugged into a Backplane Pro including a new Digital IO and SD Card.  And there must also be a new CPU card at the back.  

The final version of the new CPU board should be available in just over a week.  But in the interim, I have got some spare PCBs that will work just fine, and they're on Tindie now;

https://www.tindie.com/products/Semachthemonkey/z80-cpu-module-v20-for-rc2014-homebrew-computer/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=new_product_tweets

Oh, and the revised Digital I/O Module is also updated on Tindie too;

https://www.tindie.com/products/Semachthemonkey/digital-io-module-for-rc2014-z80-homebrew-computer/

Although the only thing that has changed with that is the form factor and layout.

Enjoy :-)

Spencer 

[David Hardingham]

I really like the additions to the Backplane Pro. Screw terminals to provide 5v power to an external device, 5v and ground sockets, and a simple on/off switch. With sockets for 12 modules and an enhanced 64-bit bus, this is going to be very useful.

Well done Spencer.

David

 

[Spencer Owen]

Thanks David, glad you like it :-)

Although, without wanting to burst your bubble... it's only a 16-bit data bus.  Although at the moment the only plans I have revolve around 8-bit CPUs, but it's nice to think that one day, maybe, it'll be running something a bit bigger :D

Cheers

Spencer

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[David Hardingham]

I knew I'd got something wrong :-)

[Olaf Dannath]

Hallo Spencer,

I Have ordernd One of the Pro Backplane. But I have a have a improvement Suggestion for the next "pro plus" Version. A few more Addresslines. I think about the Dr. Baker Z180 Board. The Z180 have 20 Adresslines to adress 1Mbyte. And Other Probably 16bit Prozessors Need more too I think. What do. you think about it?

Thainks and greets

Olaf

[Ben Chong]

Seconded.

That will make 65C816 and 68008 CPUs worthwhile. And whoever is crazy enough to port over an IBM PC BIOS to a 8088/8086 CPU board :)

[PianoMatt]

I wouldn't mind getting a NEC V20 up and running. That way you get the double benefit of 186 instructions and 8080 mode. Also, I'm much, MUCH more comfortable with DOS than I am with CP/M

[Peter Fielden-Weston]

Spencer,

I too agree with this suggestion.

I would suggest adding 4 more lines titled A16 to A19, and leave the rest unnamed. This extension seems, to me, to be an obvious upgrade to the RC2014 family of backplanes.

Peter

[Tor-Eirik Bakke Lunde]

Have been contemplating buying or making one, but the only niggling bit I've hade with the pro is that I think it should have the whole 2x40 pin slots instead of 40 pins and some that didn't fit in. Make it full size and let us toy around with the remainder - maybe use one for keying?

[Stephen Kelly]

I'll +1 Tor-Elrik's comment.  I think that 2x40 would be the way to go.

I have a Pro board and pulling the pins that are not required when assembling a module seems such a shame.   

Even when not electrically connected, I think that 2x40 would at the very least add a little bit more mechanical stability.  

Hey, Spencer.  Any chance of a "deluxe" board with twelve 2x40 connectors?

Maybe also with a PC style connector block for case mounted power and reset and leds?

Unfortunately, I can only guarantee one sale at this point ;)

[Spencer Owen]

On 16 July 2017 at 13:57, Stephen Kelly <sjkel...@gmail.com> wrote

Hey, Spencer.  Any chance of a "deluxe" board with twelve 2x40 connectors?

Maybe also with a PC style connector block for case mounted power and reset and leds?

Unfortunately, I can only guarantee one sale at this point ;)

Yeah, sure.

For a single sale, I'm best going to OSHPark (although I'll get 3 boards).  Assuming I get it right on the first spin, and assuming I can get the bigger connectors to fit within the size of the current Backplane Pro then the cost of the PCB alone comes to $194.  Obviously there's all the connectors and stuff to be added on top of that. And, of course my time and a mark up on the parts because I still have to pay the bills.  So, we're looking at a price of around $500.

That's a guaranteed sale, you say?  Great, I'll get started on it now... ;-)

Spencer

[Stephen Kelly]

Alas, Spencer, I fear that $500 may be a bit much for one board, although it's a lot less than I have spent with you over the past six months :)

Adding in other OSH Park boards by Dr Baker, Ben Chong and Ed Brindley and all the associated boxes from Mouser and Ebay, it's a wonder that I'm not on the streets!

In all seriousness, I guess that is the trouble here: numbers.

I imagine some of the regular posters here would be interested in such a back plane board as it would simplify or even make possible some of the other things that they are trying to achieve with other processors, graphics cards, et al.

I'm also sure that there is another group that is more than happy with a backplane 8 or 5.

This is the perennial problem for business, if you build it, will they come?

At $500, probably not. 

All I can do as a customer is let you know what I think.

Also, I suppose online commentary is easy and cheap as incur no risk.

Now if there was something like an RC2014 Backplane Deluxe Kickstarter campaign, I could put my money where my mouth is......  ;)

[Sir Isaac]

Yes, I'd buy a new "deluxe backplane pro", not for $500 though lol

might be worth setting up some kinda of mass community poll with the idea of future expansion in mind. I really like the idea of having one backplane that can support many different systems. I was thinking about designing my own backplane but, if there is the possibility of an first party revision i'll hold off.

[Spencer Owen]

One of the problems at the moment is that apart from a few people saying they want extra pins, I don't see a need for them.  There's currently 8 pins at the bottom end that I don't think anybody is using, plus the other 8 data lines that were added to the Backplane Pro.  

If, for example, the extra pins 37-40 were used for address lines, then that would take the addressable memory space of the RC2014 from 64k to 1Mb.  However, at the moment I'm not aware of anyone really pushing the limits of 64k.  (Even if they were, it's farily trivial to add an extra 96k and use the Pageable ROM to bank switch between them).

There's nothing to stop a new CPU and RAM board being designed that has extra address lines next to the existing address lines, and then using jumper cables between them, similar to the way the extra pins were used on the SD Memory Dump before the Backplane Pro was released.

I appreciate that the extra pins also add rigidity, but the v2.1 Z80 board with 59 pins is already a bit of a monster to push in and out.  I can only imagine what 80 pins worth of resistance would be like.

I know it sounds like I'm totally against the idea, but I'm not.  I just think it's going to be a lot of expense and effort for maybe half a dozen sales right now.  I'm sure that at some point I will get around to tweaking the Backplane Pro, so when I do I'll look at it again.

Cheers

Spencer

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[Mike, K8LH]

Could someone tell me the spacing between slots on the 5 slot backplane, please? 

TIA.  

Cheerful regards, Mike

[Sir Isaac]

I'm measuring 12mm on the 5 slot

On the 8 slot backplane they measure 13.5mm except between slots 3 & 4 which is 16.5mm and the new backplane pro measures 14mm

kinda odd variances ,never noticed that before. I don't think the headers are any different thickness.

[Thomas Riesen]

I agree with you Spencer, please keep the RC2014 simple !!!

The main idea of your project was to make it possible to build a Computer with Z80 CPU from scratch

and to understand what's happen "inside". There are many other platform available for people they

want a big expandable system. My suggestion is to have a look at this:

http://www.s100computers.com/My%20System%20Pages/SBC%20Z80%20Board/SBC%20Z80%20CPU%20Board.htm

or

http://www.malinov.com/Home/sergeys-projects/zeta-sbc-v2

or

https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org

Please let the RC2014 in his original shape !!!

Regards

Thomas

[Olaf Dannath]

Hello Spencer,

I love this RC2014 Project. Thank you for creating it! And I love this little Community that build and program new Boards and Software for it. This is the Reason why I startet with it and build not some of these S100 Computers or something like that. This Project lives now!

But if we want to create Boards that we would combine with Boards from others we have to standardize the Pins on the Connector we use for Signals. That no one use the free pins on the RC2014 BUS now is not correct. Scott Baker uses it on the CTC and other Boards for Example. So I cant use this otherwise, if I dont want to wire it all out of the backplane.

If we manufacture a Backplane for this enhanced Bus now, is another Question. And if someone build one themselve, he could do this. But the boards are compatible for the future if we fix the Signals on the Connectors.

My wish is that you expand the RC2014 Bus by the four adresslines A16-A19.

And for my next Project I need Interrupts and so I came on the Signals IEI ans IEO. These are daisy chained. So it would be fine to have a row on the backplane that are daisy chained. With daisy chain Jumper for unused connectors probably. Like this Picture:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/VME-IRQ1.png

How do you think about it?

Thanks and Greets

Olaf