Thank you
Ray
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Ray
I'm a very specific custom customer and will explain why it works for me (mine is at Joe Bell's awaiting paint).
I'm aware that I could have gone with someone local - like say, Fitz - for a little less money (and I love his work). But I'm not like a lot of you who want a full immersion buying experience with lots of measuring and talking, that's stressful for me. Grant knows me, what I'm built like and the kind of riding I do. I need an uber-upright frame now to accommodate my arthritis so I pointed at another custom they had done, explained the situation and gave them my PBH and general riding/parts style, and said "Make me one that looks kinda like that, have Joe Bell make it pretty, I'll pay you."
Another factor is I've been following the Grant/Riv thing since before there was a Riv, and this is my one shot before I get too old/disabled to get the full zoot deal with "Rivendell" on the downtube. I want it, I want that Riv ride and I have the money. It's happening!
Joe Bernard
Marin County CA.
Yes, my custom has a fillet BB, too. I don't know if it's to accommodate the angles or they just ran out of BB lugs, but I think it's cool so I don't care. Yes, they will build a complete fillet bike..there was one on the Blahg a while back built that way, then half faux lugs were added at the headtube. The frame had some pretty extreme angles and was cool as heck.
Usually they're used because the "lugged" ones don't allow you to angle the chain stays enough to provide the clearance to make room for really wide tires. I'd call that "functionally better".
The new Atlantis and Crust Nor'easter both are lugged with a filet brazed bottom bracket. I assume it reduces the cost but is it functionally better, worse, or the same as a lugged bb shell?
-- Steve Palincsar Alexandria, Virginia USA
...
Or course now I still want a Fitz. After that whole story about not being into taking all the measurements and lots of talking on the phone (or in person, it's 30 miles from me) and blah blah blah. It's only money, right? 😂
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Yes, there's exactly more to it as has generated discussion. The attitude that we have to shush and never be critical of anything is not helpful or healthy.
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Ok, fair enough, but I don't recall shushing anyone or implying one needs to pass a Riv loyalty test. I simply find the tone of outrage and insult over a frame being sold at cost a bit odd. I'm guessing the the builder and painter got paid. It's a custom. They don't come at scale prices.If I were selling it, I might have knocked a bit off for the paint chip, but I'm not selling it or buying it, so my thoughts on the matter are pretty meaningless. That said, I'm the fist to ridicule Rapha and others for "epic" marketing and bro-tuned adds - and I'm about as far away from being a customer of "epic" goods as one can get. So where does that leave me? Probably somewhat more reflective about MY comments than I was earlier today...Hugh "got no dog in this fight" FlynnNewburyport, MA
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 2:36 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, there's exactly more to it as has generated discussion. The attitude that we have to shush and never be critical of anything is not helpful or healthy.
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Ok, fair enough, but I don't recall shushing anyone or implying one needs to pass a Riv loyalty test. I simply find the tone of outrage and insult over a frame being sold at cost a bit odd. I'm guessing the the builder and painter got paid. It's a custom. They don't come at scale prices.If I were selling it, I might have knocked a bit off for the paint chip, but I'm not selling it or buying it, so my thoughts on the matter are pretty meaningless. That said, I'm the fist to ridicule Rapha and others for "epic" marketing and bro-tuned adds - and I'm about as far away from being a customer of "epic" goods as one can get. So where does that leave me? Probably somewhat more reflective about MY comments than I was earlier today...Hugh "got no dog in this fight" FlynnNewburyport, MA
On Sat, Feb 29, 2020 at 2:36 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, there's exactly more to it as has generated discussion. The attitude that we have to shush and never be critical of anything is not helpful or healthy.
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This is a really great point, and maybe exposes certain unconscious bias, even among us enthusiats. I'm guessing a fair few Riv workers live car-free or extremely car-lite. If a Riv employee spent their wages on a Toyota Echo no one would bat an eye lid, but investing in a bespoke bicycle can raise eyebrows. Despite the real cost of the custom bicycle being a fraction of the cost of typical car ownership.
People rarely regret paying for good quality.
IanA Alberta Canada
1. Although I personally never said otherwise, I still want to add that - as a customer myself - I don't think Riv customs are overpriced. They're designed by a guy who's been doing this a long time, built by a trusted builder who's brazed a lot of frames, and painted by the best in the business.
Yes you can find a cheaper custom builder, but I think some folks get googley eyes over the phrase "hand built" and just assume everyone doing that job is super great at it and all customs are equal quality. This seems unrealistic to me.
2. I'm not sure where employee pricing crept into this discussion. Vaughn hasn't worked there in, what, 10 years? If $3300 was 'at cost' at the time of this build then I presume he paid the $3500 buy-in that was available until recently (it's $4000 now). My understanding is there isn't much of an employee discount on ANY Riv frame, and I'm confused how this entered the thread. I'm sure Vaughn paid full pop, and the buyer of that "mistake" frame paid pretty close.
That is all. It's Sunday, let's ride!
Joe Bernard
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If that hypothetical BB shell was already on hand, then the lugged assembly work would be cheaper. Maybe not a whole lot cheaper, but not more expensive.
If that hypothetical BB shell was NOT on hand and you had to go cast a new one, custom, then that's prohibitive. Say $5000-$10000 and a few months to get something set up to cast a new BB shell. Once you've done the prep work, then manufacturing hundreds or thousands of them is not that expensive, but that first one is really expensive. Nobody makes a true custom cast lug. No frame builder casts custom lugs for their custom frames. Will they someday, with metal 3D printing? Perhaps, but not today.
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If he or she is, please share when you get your new bike built up, it's a special one. In any case, it's already legendary...
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Blew out my residential speakers earlier this year. Luckily have a decent setup in the barn, but I miss the vinyl. A few more months...
Bullmoose plus thunder burts plus a wide range cassette looks like a very fun combo.
Ray
Not trying to micro manage their affairs but it does seem to fill a niche not currently offered.
Ray