Dynamo Hub Recommendations

[Jonathan D.]

I was curious what folks experience are with the different dynamo hub options.  The Schmidt Sonn Dynamo hub seem to set the standard but at a high cost.  The other two I was looking at are Shutter Precision and the Shimano Dynamo hubs.  Anyone seen a good comparison? Should I be concerned with reliability if I went with something cheaper than the Schmidt hub?

[Ian A]

Edited:

They're all three good options. I have 2x SON28 Classic (the older version) and 1x Shimano DH3n80 (Ultegra level). I'm happy with them.
One of the SON hubs required servicing. I had been using it on my winter commuter and think I must have submerged it at some point in the spring thaw. It's possible the minus 25 Celcius temperatures also did it in. I had the hub serviced at great expense, but it came back as good as new. I now run battery lights on the winter bike and have the dynamos on my nice bikes.

My first choice nowadays would be a Shutter Precision SV9. It's small, light-weight and really efficient. Designed for 20" wheels, but fine on 700c for running front and rear lights. The price is reasonable too.

If you're looking to charge phone or GPS etc., maybe the PV8 is a better option.

Anton Tutter of Velo Lumino in Somerville MA is the expert and a dealer of SP stuff. Www.Velolumino.com/shop/shutter-precision-hubs/8.

IanA Alberta Canada

[masmojo]

The SON hubs are pretty much considered the best, but as you say, very spendy. Weather it's worth the expense or not depends on how you use them & the specific application.
I've got several of each brand, typically I go for the SP. It's a very good quality unit for a reasonable cost.
But, other factors I would consider. If it's going to be used in the city or parked on the street a lot you might opt for the Shimano; if you shop around a bit you can find them cheap and then if it gets stolen, no big deal.

If you only have one or two bikes, they are both super nice and you have a secure parking area, go SON.
If money is a little tight or it's not a super nice bike, you'll be more than satisfied with the SP.

The Shimano is perfectly satisfactory otherwise.

[Zed Martinez]

I've only just used the Shimano 3N72, and only for a couple weeks now, but I went for it after a few people here expressed good experiences with them, and then finding this comparison online that showed the Shimanos were much much closer to the SONs than not these days: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/board/message/?message_id=143635

This one shows a bigger difference between the newer Shimano 3Nxx series and the SONs, but it was also just a lab test with the wheel and not measured on an actual bike on rollers like the other, so, I consider it more of a theoretical measurement set: https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-drag-lab-testing/

For the price difference, I still thought the performance trade-off between the SON and Shimano was one of diminishing returns and stopped putting off getting dynamo lighting until I could afford the SON wheel, myself. I don't really notice any difference with the lights off, and with them on I'd say I noticed half (maaaybe a third) as much drag as my roadster with a fairly well respected Nordlicht bottle dynamo gets. I don't know how that measures against the SON IRL, but it's fine enough for my needs. But, I'm somewhat famous for running my Clem like a hoss on fairly hefty tires, so, if you like to run lighter maybe the drag would be more obvious than it is for me?

[Eric Norris]

I agree with everything here, except that I have put SP hubs on “nice” bikes.

The only thing I would add is that SON hubs are pressure-compensated so that if you take them from a warm, dry place directly to a cold, wet place (like a cold rainy ride) they won’t suck moisture into the hub as the air inside cools down and contracts. I never do that, so SP hubs, which are nicely sealed but lack that feature, work great for me.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3c6688d2-d3f4-4ed7-b73e-37d363cd0588%40googlegroups.com.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Eric - how long does the bike have to be exposed to rain before it becomes an issue for the SP hub? (Analog has just sent me my first ever set of custom wheels, complete with dyno and (SP in front) and I am so excited.) I take a cross-country road trip from Vegas to MN every summer and we will usually drive through showers on our way. Just wondering if that will be an issue...

Thanks!
Leah

[Patrick Moore]

On the Boblist Anton Tutter, resident lighting expert, uses and sells SPs, and said that the one of his bikes that has seen regular winter use in snow and outdoor storage has an SP and it has been trouble free for 5 years. 

Driving rain on top of a car at 75 mph -- that is a new one, though.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b08ba09d-dae2-4fc2-8e31-6faacfce3f12%40googlegroups.com.

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Eric Norris]

Leah:

I’ve ridden SP hubs in the rain many times. The seals are fine. On those rides, the air inside the hub was the same temperature as the air outside.

However … If you have your bike sitting in a nice, warm garage or living room and wheel it out into a cold, wet day, the air inside will contract as it cools to match the outside. As it does, it will tend to want to draw air into the hub, and along with that air will come moisture. SON hubs deal with this by having seals *and* a device that lets air in to equalize pressure but keeps moisture out. SP hubs don’t; they just have seals.

As I mentioned, this is only an issue when you go directly from warm/dry to cold/wet. If you put your bike outside for a few minutes on a cold dry porch to let the hub acclimate before it gets wet (or if you don’t do the warm/dry to cold/wet thing), SP hubs will be fine. If you head out into a warm monsoon rain, pressure compensation probably wouldn’t be an issue.

SON is made in Germany, where I expect many riders keep their bikes inside the house and then go directly out into the rain. The pressure compensating feature probably means more to them than to someone from, say, Arizona.

Hope this helps! I know Peter White is on this list, so perhaps he can shed some more light on this.

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com
www.campyonly.com
campyonlyguy.blogspot.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b08ba09d-dae2-4fc2-8e31-6faacfce3f12%40googlegroups.com.

[Teague Scott]

Anyone have experience with the Kasai hub that Riv and Soma Fab carry? They look to be on par with the SP.

[somervillebikes]

Bicycle Belle,

Full disclosure: I sell SP dynamo hubs.

That said, I have three SP hubs on personal bikes, the oldest of which I built into a wheel in 2015 on my Bike Friday cargo bike, which, due to its size, cannot fit in my shed or basement, therefore it lives outside year-round in New England weather. That hub has survived quite well after five years outside, no issues whatsoever. My other two SP hubs are on bikes that are stored indoors, but still have encountered plenty of rainy rides, and no issues. Do note that New England climate is harsh, from deep freezes, salty slushy roads, lots of freeze-thaw cycles, and blistering summer heat and humidity.

As a dealer for SP, I have had two returns in total: one due to seized bearings after riding in winter salt and then put into storage for a few weeks. The other had a faint ticking sound when new that was barely audible and needed a stethoscope to hear, but the customer nonetheless wanted a new one. 

SON is the gold standard, no doubt about it. I have one as well. You can't go wrong with one. But they cost twice as much as SP hubs.

SP does have a repair program for after the warranty expires, wherein they will rebuild the bearings for a nominal fee.

Personally I now stay away from Shimano. I have two on personal bikes (I have five dynamo bikes in total), and one's been fine but the other developed a loud ticking noise, probably a bearing. And the vibration of the hub through the handlebars is more noticeable than with either the SP or SON hubs, which feel equivalent. The Shimano has the oldest design of all three brands, and is also the heaviest (not that that matters to most RBW listers).

Anton

velolumino.com

[Drw]

I’ll also recommend sp hubs. I’ve had 3 or 4 and all worked well without issue. I was surprised that rich at rivendell won’t build wheels with them anymore.
Maybe not an issue to some, but another thing to consider is the wiring interface at the hub which is very easy with the shimano/sp design but seems much more complex with the son hubs

[lambbo]

I have SP hub I got in 2015 and it’s been locked up on the streets of NYC since then, no issues at all! Winters, salt, an accident, it’s absolutely INCREDIBLE!

[Tom Horton]

re shutter precision vs kasai dynamo hubs, from what I can glean they are the same, or made in the same factory. I bought one from riv a year or so back and it has been fine. SON is a very pretty hub though and I've got a few.

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:

[John Casteen]

Replying to Teague and the original poster, I have one bike with a SON delux and another with a Kasai. Haven't had any trouble with either-- dirt, rain, whatever. I honestly don't know how they compare in terms of current generation, bearing size, or anything like that, though I've heard that the SON is a beast to rebuild. The light output from the SON is steadier at low speeds, but that's the only difference I notice. I went with the Kasai on Riv's recommendation and have been really happy with it.

--John

[William deRosset]

Dear Jonathon,

Unless you live somewhere hot and submerge your hubs on mtb rides or something similar in terms of temperature differential the gas exchange mechanism is a non-issue.

I've owned both. I've worn out both an SV8 (ended up getting new bearings, now being used by a friend in town) and a SON 28 (which took a spa trip to Germany after its first winter (2000) and now lives in Vermont with my brother). There is no significant difference in basic reliability in my experience. I have over 100,000 miles on various SON hubs and somewhat fewer on the SP; I have used hub dynamos since 1999. I would suggest making your decision based not on the reliability (both excellent) but on other factors. 

For example, do you want/need both a wide flange spacing and very low drag? Do you want/need the wiring fully integrated into the bike? If either or both of the latter obtain, then the SON has options that the SP does not. 

If not, then the SP connectors (identical to the Shimano) are a better design in my opinion. On the other hand, the SON is more nicely finished. Taiwan or Germany? Both make great stuff. You pays your money and makes your choice.

If you can live with a narrow-ish flange spacing, or you don't plan to build a one-off fork with special connectors, then either will work fine, and both Anton Tutter(SP in North America) Peter White (SON in North America) and Jan Heine (SON in North America, I think) will be happy to help you. PJW will also work with your local bike shop through their commercial account.

Best Regards,

Will

William M. deRosset

Fort Collins, CO

[Rich Lesnik]

Check out the Kasai dynamo. They're available from Riv or Merry Sales. Lots of them on Riv bikes, and no complaints so far.

Rich

[Peter White]

Several years ago, SP hubs were made by a company named KT. I don't know when that business relationship ended but since it ended, SP hubs have been made elsewhere. As far as I know, there is no SP factory as such. They are all being made under contract with some hub manufacturer.

Since SP's relationship with KT ended, word is the quality has gone downhill. One distributor I've gotten to know over the years has stopped importing SP and only imports hubs manufactured by KT. The reason is the extremely high return rate he was seeing for SP hubs due to various defects.

The Kasai hubs from Soma are KT hubs.

PJW

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/732ad64a-52a2-4323-aee8-aa195a9c05b9%40googlegroups.com.

--

Peter White

[ascpgh]

I've been conditioned by previous experience to do things right, once. Sometimes it's because I built something using less than the best materials because I didn't know about better choices or because it seemed like appropriate cost containment. The work and waste to undo something down to the point of a failure, necessity of replacement and a temporary substitute. This has applied in carpentry (pick each piece of lumber yourself), cabinet building (use the best fasteners and hardware), tiling (Ditra uncoupling mat), hardwood floors (have your own milled), old British (replace any Lucas part with others), Italian cars (Bayless Racing's timing belts), and bicycles- the source of so many trials and errors chronicled by these threads. 

My first SON was for my commuter to which I am less committed than the hub. It is ridden in whatever comes and spends its time at home indoors so the proprietary atmospheric compensation to prevent moisture being sucked into the hub is key, I think. It has performed flawlessly with virtually no attention or care from me other than wiping it occasionally. I believe this environmental change of indoor storage and year-round use is what killed the previous Phil Wood BB in a significantly shorter time and mileage than should be expected. 

When picking parts for my new bike I had no hesitation about repeating the choice of the SON (with the SL feature since the frame and fork were custom). 

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 12:06:29 AM UTC-4, Jonathan D. wrote:

[Jonathan D.]

Thank you everyone for your advice and the recent information about SP hubs.

[masmojo]

Eric, I've put SP Hubs on "Nice" bikes too; I just don't think I'd throw down $240+ on a SON hub unless it was a bike that was worthy. SP's are (or were) good for those builds where you want something a little nicer than a Shimano, but a SON is out of the question. Ideal for a Clem., even a Cheviot or a Sam, but any nicer than that I am likely to want the SON. My exception to that would be some thru-axle applications and some of my recent builds where I have a second set of wheels. One set of wheels might be nicer than the other. SON on the primary set & SP on the second set.

[BSWP]

I would want the widest hub possible, for the most robust wheel overall. That is, spoke flanges on the hub as far apart as possible. I've noticed some hubs are narrower than others, and worry that the wheels won't hold up to side loads and bumps as well as those built on wider hubs.

- Andrew, Berkeley

[Teague Scott]

Good stuff in here, thanks all. I think I'll pass on the SP and go for one of those Kasai hubs.

Anyone have specs for the Kasai (rim brake obviously...)? Flange diameter, center to left/right, spoke hole diameter? Same as the SP PV-8?

I'll end up ordering from Riv, so they can just pass the info along when the time comes if no one here has the answer. Thought I'd try get a head start on ordering spokes.

- Teague in Boise

[Bones]

I’ve built two sets of wheels with those Kasai hubs recently. So far I am impressed. I used the PV-8 in a spoke calculator and it worked out just fine.

Bones

[esoterica etc]

Bones,

I just want to clarify what you said— did you use the specs of the PV-8 from the spoke calculator to build up your Kaisei? Meaning, the PV-8 and the Kaisei have identical measurements? Thanks,

~Mark
Raleigh, NC


> On May 21, 2020, at 18:20, Bones <ekstr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’ve built two sets of wheels with those Kasai hubs recently. So far I am impressed. I used the PV-8 in a spoke calculator and it worked out just fine.
>
> Bones
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/42defe19-7920-4427-8020-4e66ddcf8ff4%40googlegroups.com.

[Teague Scott]

I'll let Bones clarify, but I'm assuming yes, identical measurements. The only spoke calculator I could find with a plug and play SV-8 option is Edd.

https://leonard.io/edd/

Here's what the Edd spoke calculator has to say for the PV-8:

52 mm flange diam.

26.5 mm c-l & c-r

2.7 mm spoke hole diam.

- Teague in Boise

[Bones]

Yes I used the specs for the PV-8, I had previously read somewhere that they were the same. And yes those specs look correct.

[Brendan Willard in SF]

I'll be interested to hear the feedback on Kasai Field Serviceable Dynamo Hubs

[Teague Scott]

Wow, didn't know those existed! I just ordered a Kasai non-Field Serviceable yesterday from SomaFab Shop - didn't even see those FS Dynacoils!

Just checked up on them and it looks like they don't have a silver 32h rim-brake FS in stock. Now I'm wondering whether it's worth it to forgo the memorial day 10% off sale and wait for a FS to show up with the specs I'm after. Hmmm...

- Teague in Boise

[Jim Bronson]

I read this older thread with interest.  None of the responses strike me as more "wrong" as this one, to each their own, but defining usage by how shiny a widget is seems very, very wrongheaded.

To me, it isn't how nice the bike is that determines what dynamo hub you put on it.  It's what you're going to do with your bike.

My SonDeluxe widebody is not on my "nicest" bike.  It is on the bike that I use for Randonneuring rides.  It must perform day and night under all weather conditions without fail and without worry.  I've been in some pretty out of the way places with it where help would be many hours away.  I do carry battery backups on any out of the way ride but when I'm struggling away up the umpteenth roller at way past o'dark thirty trying to stay hydrated and nourished, I do not want to think about my dynamo hub under any circumstances.

When I finally get my gumption up to go back to PBP, it will only be with a SON dynamo hub.

I also own Shimano and SP hubs but they are used for more pedestrian pursuits.  I haven't had any issues with them.

P.S:  The SON spade connectors are not difficult to use, I'm not sure where that idea came from, either.  I think they are superior to the Shimano/SP design because there are no parts to lose.  It's easy to misplace the cap of the other design.

YMMV.

Jim

Austin MSA, TX

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 2:47 PM masmojo <mas...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Eric, I've put SP Hubs on "Nice" bikes too; I just don't think I'd throw down $240+ on a SON hub unless it was a bike that was worthy. SP's are (or were) good for those builds where you want something a little nicer than a Shimano, but a SON is out of the question. Ideal for a Clem., even a Cheviot or a Sam, but any nicer than that I am likely to want the SON. My exception to that would be some thru-axle applications and some of my recent builds where I  have a second set of wheels. One set of wheels might be nicer than the other. SON on the primary set & SP on the second set.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/70382a8d-253f-470f-82f0-059e818eca3a%40googlegroups.com.

--

------------------------------------------------------------------

signature goes here

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree with -- whatzisname? -- here. I'm quite happy to spend more for bling, just as I am happy to spend more for a custom Riv with pretty lugs and paint instead of saving money with something more pedestrian but, per relevant "KPIs," just as effective. And IME, not inconsiderable, the SPs are just as good practically as the SONs, unless you ride daily in rain and store your bike indoors in temps far warmer than outdoors during heavy winter seasons. If one's metrics were solely practical, then few of us would be on this list.

OTOH, I can see Jims POV; only, Rael Wilcox chose an SP hub with K-Lite setup for her, well, traumatically-long, even epic, rides, and far more solid than my own experience, her's provides a very strong recommendation.

Also, I have to agree with what seems to be a majority that the SON connectors are more complicated and harder to use than the SP/Shimano type. I can't imagine anyone losing a part for a SP or Shimano connector even along the longest route; how would you manage that?

Pax. Each to his or her own. I use Dura Ace 7410 f and r derailleurs on my Matthews Road Bike For Dirt, and 7400 (?) 1-sided Dura Ace SPDs on my Riv fixed gofast, for no practical reason at all, just for style. The style makes me happy. End of equation.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2BypmEYcVF9zGn6tX%3DnUq3qr3fEUAr%2BVs1ZgL9KxqXg1nMQDbg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Patrick Moore]

Joe Ramey?

[Bill Schairer]

On the other hand, I try to remember that the Wilcox’s and King’s of the world are sometimes/often being paid to make the selections they do. Kinda like Joe Namath using Aqua Velva?

[Patrick Moore]

Perhaps; but it apparently saw her through several pretty darned long and grueling rides.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 5:31 PM Bill Schairer <comm...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the other hand, I try to remember that the Wilcox’s and King’s of the world are sometimes/often being paid to make the selections they do.  Kinda like Joe Namath using Aqua Velva?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4cfa6fe0-ef08-4380-a59e-1a9b493c2a1bo%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael / SF]

On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody have personal experience with this: https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/ ?

Michael

SF / CA

[Patrick Moore]

I'd test this myself except that if I have a spare Shimano plug, I don't know where it is. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can try this.

Michael, thanks for bringing this to the list.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04d60f47-2406-4cd7-839c-c9dc395e4279o%40googlegroups.com.

[Michael / SF]

Hi Patrick,

Responded to your i-bob thread but reposting here for posterity: I just tried this out with a new wheelset. The Shimano plug fit on the SON rather nicely, but no luck actually powering the lights. Bummer, that would have been surprisingly cool!

Michael
SF / CA

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020 at 5:40:27 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

I'd test this myself except that if I have a spare Shimano plug, I don't know where it is. I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who can try this.

Michael, thanks for bringing this to the list.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 6:23 PM Michael / SF <michaeljo...@gmail.com> wrote:

On the subject of comparing SON and Shimano/SP connectors, does anybody have personal experience with this: https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/c9mbgn/hint_for_son_dynamo_owners_shimano_plug_fits_well/ ?

Michael

SF / CA

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/04d60f47-2406-4cd7-839c-c9dc395e4279o%40googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Mike.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7a706d27-d608-4069-a518-bed11e213a8do%40googlegroups.com.