Proper(?) fitting of a Bosco or similar handlebar & Nitto V5 stem

[Richard Rose]

Two separate questions. Regarding the Bosco; I am curious how others approach the Bosco from a fit perspective. I love mine on my Clem. Its a 540 wide and came with a 135 FacePlater. Mine is positioned with the tips between 2"-3" above the saddle nose. With the 135 stem those tips come back perhaps not as far as most folks? When pedaling, the tips do not come back far enough to cross an imaginary line between my knee caps. Turning the bar the tips do cross this line but the bars are high enough to pass over the knees - no contact. I fiddled with this a lot when I got the bike and the way I have it really works well for me. I am just curious how other folks have these handlebars set up particularly on a Gus / Susie? Thanks in advance for sharing.

Regarding the V--5 stem, I just really like it & am considering using one on my Gus. Any drawbacks? From a purely aesthetic perspective it kind of bothers me that the knurled center portion of the bar is exposed. A minor thing I know...

[Mackenzy Albright]

I've found boscos to be very lenient with their "fitting". The only time I haven't liked them is when they are way  too close. I have yet to have them too far. I find the bar tilt also drastically effects the reach - if that is a thing of concern. 

I absolutely love the looks of the V-5 stem. On the bike's I've seen with boscos/loscos and V5's installed I haven't taken much notice. Could always "riv it up" and wrap it with some cotton tape and twine. I haven't had issues with a faceplate chromoly stem and loscos but imagine it'd give the confidence of the boscomoose. 

[greenteadrinkers]

I love the V5, here are some pictures of the v5 with a Choco on my Moonshiner. If I was going to use a non-moose Bosco on a Gus, I would only use a v5, I had a non-moose Bosco with a Technomic on my Sam, and had to use a shim, the bar would slip unless I tightened the stem as hard down as absolutely possible. Now I have a Bosco Moose on the Sam, perfection! So... 100% no go Bosco/Technomic for off-road roughstuff unless mated with a v5, I say this from experience. An aside, if you order a v5 from Blue Lug check out the brass spacers or the Nitto spacers, both are fabricated to mate perfectly with the v5.

[Richard Rose]

Thanks for the input. I have a Bosco on my Clem with a four bolt FacePlater. It does not slip but I had to re-torque a couple of times. But the Gus will see more rough stuff. I have a Soma Shotwell on the Gus now but it’s a bit short. I will likely get a V5. BTW, nice Moonshiner.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2023, at 1:45 PM, greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I love the V5, here are some pictures of the v5 with a Choco on my Moonshiner. If I was going to use a non-moose Bosco on a Gus, I would only use a v5, I had a non-moose Bosco with a Technomic on my Sam, and had to use a shim, the bar would slip unless I tightened the stem as hard down as absolutely possible. Now I have a Bosco Moose on the Sam, perfection! So... 100% no go Bosco/Technomic for off-road roughstuff unless mated with a v5, I say this from experience. An aside, if you order a v5 from Blue Lug check out the brass spacers or the Nitto spacers, both are fabricated to mate perfectly with the v5.

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On Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 2:47:43 PM UTC-5 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

I've found boscos to be very lenient with their "fitting". The only time I haven't liked them is when they are way  too close. I have yet to have them too far. I find the bar tilt also drastically effects the reach - if that is a thing of concern. 

I absolutely love the looks of the V-5 stem. On the bike's I've seen with boscos/loscos and V5's installed I haven't taken much notice. Could always "riv it up" and wrap it with some cotton tape and twine. I haven't had issues with a faceplate chromoly stem and loscos but imagine it'd give the confidence of the boscomoose. 

On Monday, February 13, 2023 at 5:56:35 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

Two separate questions. Regarding the Bosco; I am curious how others approach the Bosco from a fit perspective. I love mine on my Clem. Its a 540 wide and came with a 135 FacePlater. Mine is positioned with the tips between 2"-3" above the saddle nose. With the 135 stem those tips come back perhaps not as far as most folks? When pedaling, the tips do not come back far enough to cross an imaginary line between my knee caps. Turning the bar the tips do cross this line but the bars are high enough to pass over the knees - no contact. I fiddled with this a lot when I got the bike and the way I have it really works well for me. I am just curious how other folks have these handlebars set up particularly on a Gus / Susie? Thanks in advance for sharing.

Regarding the V--5 stem, I just really like it & am considering using one on my Gus. Any drawbacks? From a purely aesthetic perspective it kind of bothers me that the knurled center portion of the bar is exposed. A minor thing I know...

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[Patrick Moore]

Interesting; I just glommed on the V5, which I'd not seen before. It seems to be a good design for bars where the moment of force is relatively high, like many of the current Rivendell bars.

Curious: I can see how a Technomic would be wholly overwhelmed by a Bosco. But what about a wide-faced, 4-bolt single-clamp stem? The only examples of these last are the Ritchey 4-bolt faceplate threadless stems I have on 2 bikes, but I wonder if these might hold a Bosco in place firmly without requiring over tightening of the bolts?

This is not an idle question; I may try a bosco or tosco or some other such long sweepback bar on the Monocog 29er, and I'd not want to have to buy a new V5 stem as well as a new, expensive, bar.

[Patrick Moore]

I forgot to add: Very nice Moonshiner. And: too bad that the Moonshiner takes 650Bs and not 700Cs; otherwise I'd be very interested indeed. But despite Jan's deprecation, in my own not inconsiderable experience, taller tires do very much float better over sand and more smoothly over small high-amplitude bumps (eg, washboard) compared to smaller tires; in my own case, 29 1/2" 700C 60s compared to 27.0" 559 60s at the same pressures.

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[greenteadrinkers]

Thanks for the Moonshiner compliments! 

Patrick - I can't speak to a 4-bolt faceplate threadless. Currently, I have a Bosco with a Technomic on my Simple One, the stem is over-tightened and is now stable without slipping. That said, I'm not sure I'd venture over anything rougher than moderate gravel roads.  I should also be clear that I have not tested a Bosco wit the V5, but I can't think of a stronger solution for mating a Bosco with a threadless stem. The folks at Blue Lug are wonderful and assertive designers! Who else would design a stem like the V5? My only slight gripe - the gap left between the two mounting points on the stem is somewhat unsightly, but it leaves a perfect place to mount a battery light or GPS device. 

Regarding 700c, the Moonshiner was designed to accept both 650b and 700c, just not sure what the max width at 700c is, and you might run into toe overlap issues.

[Richard Rose]

Patrick, the four bolt FacePlater on my Clem is holding the Bosco quite well so far. I do wonder if carbon paste would help it further? Same for the Soma Shotwell 4 bolt threadless stem currently holding the Bosco on my Gus. But, I’ve yet to hit the rough stuff with it.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2023, at 2:14 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Garth]

From my experience using open face stems of the 2 and 4 bolt variety with steel Albatross bars, the efficacy of such a design is obvious. Notably on the 4 bolt, I tighten them a little at a time, alternating criss-cross, zigging and zagging, and they only need to be modestly tight, no heroics involved. Come to think of it, I don't even use a shim with a 26.0 Koski alloy threadless stem and the 25.4 steel Albatross. I was gonna get a shim, as criminally overpriced they are, and I thought I bought one, but darned if I can't find it, so I left it as-is to see how it went, and it hasn't budged for years. I can't say I'm a hulkster, but I do climb out the saddle often and apply a lot of lateral leverage. 

A Bosco could really use an open face stem for anything save pedestrian riding. 

Basically, any open face stem is going to hold more firm than a closed single bolt one, 2 or 4 bolt. 

The current Nitto V aren't quite as nice as the cold forged and burly elegance of the Specialized Slingshot stems from the 80's though..... Damn they used to make some nice parts, for the sake of the beauty and creativity of it, of Living itself.   

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree that the V5 seems perfect for long-sweep bars and personally I think it looks good -- not pretty but not ugly. And the exposed bar center is as you said the perfect place for a headlight.

Richard and Garth: Noted about the presumed adequacy of 4-bolt stems. I use the X-cross tightening method meself. 

I just looked at Riv's stem offerings; I'd not looked for a while. I see they've moved to quill 4-bolt faceplate stems over the Technomics and T Deluxes of yore. Me, I'd also prefer the Nitto Slingshot stem and I agree that, while I like the V5, I like the Slingshot better. I bet a remake would get some traffic.

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[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

Interesting; I just glommed on the V5, which I'd not seen before. It seems to be a good design for bars where the moment of force is relatively high, like many of the current Rivendell bars.

Curious: I can see how a Technomic would be wholly overwhelmed by a Bosco. But what about a wide-faced, 4-bolt single-clamp stem? The only examples of these last are the Ritchey 4-bolt faceplate threadless stems I have on 2 bikes, but I wonder if these might hold a Bosco in place firmly without requiring over tightening of the bolts?

This is not an idle question; I may try a bosco or tosco or some other such long sweepback bar on the Monocog 29er, and I'd not want to have to buy a new V5 stem as well as a new, expensive, bar.

Patrick, just in case it isn't clear:  The V5 stem probably only works with Nitto-made bars.  The Tosco, even in the narrower 25.4 versions, lack the long sleeve swaged onto the clamp area.  On nitto bars,  i know it works with the Bosco, but I think it might even be worth double checking to make sure the sleeve is long enough on the Billie, Chaco, Wavie, etc.  Starting with the Billie bar, Nitto adopted a new manufacturing method that combined a bulged section WITH a sleeve.  For the Bosco and older models, the  clamp diameter was made up entirely with a swaged sleeve - like their drop bars.

Regarding clamp force:  Ive experimented with boscos quite a bit.  I found a steel, ritchey force stem  with a broad clamp surface, to be adequate, even with a single bolt.  I was eventually able to get them to work in a technomic stem, and not slip after tightening enough, but found this unsatisfactory for another reason.  The aluminum bars flex in a torsional way, and the narrower clamp width exacerbated this.  I think this anti-torsion characteristic of wide clamps would be the best part of the V5 stem.

Ultimately, I found the steel bullmoose version to be the only Bosco I can use - despite wishing the angle was different (I wish the ends angled down more).  The steel is less flexy and the effective stem length is 150mm which is still barely long enough.  It's hard to find long stems these days.  (This is the problem with the OG slingshot stems, especially.  I have one in my parts bin and keep hoping to use it, but it never works.  I'll eventually get custom bars for it.)

All of this became moot for me, once the Tosco came out.  It offers all of the bosco benefits while fixing most of its  flaws.  But, as I noted, it won't work with the V5 stem unfortunately.

[greenteadrinkers]

Just mounted a Billie bar to my V5, I would say both Choco, and Billie bars are compatible. Regarding the Bosco Bullmoose, I agree with Keith's comment above. Below, is the Billie bar with the V5. Also, a few details show the space between the stem and the front cap of the stem, looking at images at Blue Lug, there is no gap, guessing that's not a big issue, but thought I'd point it out. The bolt extends outside of the rear port, so there's no loss in bolt length. Wow, wonder how much ($$$) a modern remake of the Slingshot would cost?

[maxcr]

FWIW I run Discord fingerling on my Hunqa with a 710 Jones Bar (it is 31.8) - this is no Bosco but the setup feels solid. To be fair, mine is a short 70m stem, not a super long reach.

Here's the link, looks like they're sold out: https://analogcycles.com/products/discord-fingerling-stems

Max

[Richard Rose]

Well that was easy. I’ve been reluctant to order any bike parts from out of the country, not sure why. But I pulled the trigger yesterday on a V5 & appropriate spacers from Bluelug. A very user friendly website & reasonable shipping. Estimated delivery next week! Not sure if there will be any additional fees? 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 16, 2023, at 2:55 PM, greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

Just mounted a Billie bar to my V5, I would say both Choco, and Billie bars are compatible. Regarding the Bosco Bullmoose, I agree with Keith's comment above. Below, is the Billie bar with the V5. Also, a few details show the space between the stem and the front cap of the stem, looking at images at Blue Lug, there is no gap, guessing that's not a big issue, but thought I'd point it out. The bolt extends outside of the rear port, so there's no loss in bolt length. Wow, wonder how much ($$$) a modern remake of the Slingshot would cost?

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On Thursday, February 16, 2023 at 1:46:18 PM UTC-5 iamkeith wrote:

On Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 12:14:57 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

Interesting; I just glommed on the V5, which I'd not seen before. It seems to be a good design for bars where the moment of force is relatively high, like many of the current Rivendell bars.

Curious: I can see how a Technomic would be wholly overwhelmed by a Bosco. But what about a wide-faced, 4-bolt single-clamp stem? The only examples of these last are the Ritchey 4-bolt faceplate threadless stems I have on 2 bikes, but I wonder if these might hold a Bosco in place firmly without requiring over tightening of the bolts?

This is not an idle question; I may try a bosco or tosco or some other such long sweepback bar on the Monocog 29er, and I'd not want to have to buy a new V5 stem as well as a new, expensive, bar.

Patrick, just in case it isn't clear:  The V5 stem probably only works with Nitto-made bars.  The Tosco, even in the narrower 25.4 versions, lack the long sleeve swaged onto the clamp area.  On nitto bars,  i know it works with the Bosco, but I think it might even be worth double checking to make sure the sleeve is long enough on the Billie, Chaco, Wavie, etc.  Starting with the Billie bar, Nitto adopted a new manufacturing method that combined a bulged section WITH a sleeve.  For the Bosco and older models, the  clamp diameter was made up entirely with a swaged sleeve - like their drop bars.

Regarding clamp force:  Ive experimented with boscos quite a bit.  I found a steel, ritchey force stem  with a broad clamp surface, to be adequate, even with a single bolt.  I was eventually able to get them to work in a technomic stem, and not slip after tightening enough, but found this unsatisfactory for another reason.  The aluminum bars flex in a torsional way, and the narrower clamp width exacerbated this.  I think this anti-torsion characteristic of wide clamps would be the best part of the V5 stem.

Ultimately, I found the steel bullmoose version to be the only Bosco I can use - despite wishing the angle was different (I wish the ends angled down more).  The steel is less flexy and the effective stem length is 150mm which is still barely long enough.  It's hard to find long stems these days.  (This is the problem with the OG slingshot stems, especially.  I have one in my parts bin and keep hoping to use it, but it never works.  I'll eventually get custom bars for it.)

All of this became moot for me, once the Tosco came out.  It offers all of the bosco benefits while fixing most of its  flaws.  But, as I noted, it won't work with the V5 stem unfortunately.

 

On Wed, Feb 15, 2023 at 11:45 AM greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

I love the V5, here are some pictures of the v5 with a Choco on my Moonshiner. If I was going to use a non-moose Bosco on a Gus, I would only use a v5, I had a non-moose Bosco with a Technomic on my Sam, and had to use a shim, the bar would slip unless I tightened the stem as hard down as absolutely possible. Now I have a Bosco Moose on the Sam, perfection! So... 100% no go Bosco/Technomic for off-road roughstuff unless mated with a v5, I say this from experience. An aside, if you order a v5 from Blue Lug check out the brass spacers or the Nitto spacers, both are fabricated to mate perfectly with the v5.

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[greenteadrinkers]

The few times I've placed orders with BL have been easy with very fast shipping. If you give feedback about the site's performance they usually add a bunch of cool stickers.

[jad...@gmail.com]

I found circles to have lower shipping rates and lightening fast service. I am in zip 59808 (Montana) and 4 days from order to delivery..

https://shop.circles-jp.com/en

[Mackenzy Albright]

Watch out - ordering from blue lug can become a problem. The first order shows up in 4 days. The next thing you know you have another package coming with "just a few more parts to finish the build". 

DHL is a bit weird on their brokerage as they charge a flat rate fee for their time which is a bit annoying, but not the worst. They are also extremely reliable and great for scheduling delivery and drop offs. Paying fees online etc. 

I find their prices are fantastic for items manufactured in Japan. You get to avoid paying the shop price markup on them importing the item. You just pay shipping+ brokerage yourself with no mark up. Plus they just have tons of lovely small detailed items like bolt covers, reflectors, nets, etc that are difficult to find in other places. 

[Richard Rose]

My Bluelug package arrived yesterday - a day early - in great shape and no missing items. I think it was 4 days, maybe 5. Happy & stunned.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 17, 2023, at 4:17 PM, Mackenzy Albright <mackenzy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Watch out - ordering from blue lug can become a problem. The first order shows up in 4 days. The next thing you know you have another package coming with "just a few more parts to finish the build". 

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[greenteadrinkers]

Looks great! BL does a really nice job with the spacers. Would be super cool to see a quill version of the V5.

[greenteadrinkers]

Interesting... was just watching a video via Radavist called "Rivendell Susie Longbolts/Wolbis Slugstone (First Ride) @ Marshall Canyon" at around 6 min 30 seconds in the rider has to stop and tighten his quill 4-bolt face plater and manages to break one of the bolts! Looks like the stem is paired with a Losco. Gotta love the "You guys have beach cruisers" comment from a passerby.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbD6sgowP58&t=407s

[Richard Rose]

I’ve definitely watched that one a few times.:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2023, at 3:46 PM, greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting... was just watching a video via Radavist called "Rivendell Susie Longbolts/Wolbis Slugstone (First Ride) @ Marshall Canyon" at around 6 min 30 seconds in the rider has to stop and tighten his quill 4-bolt face plater and manages to break one of the bolts! Looks like the stem is paired with a Losco. Gotta love the "You guys have beach cruisers" comment from a passerby.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1156f710-fe85-4927-a694-b81165fc0d5cn%40googlegroups.com.

[Richard Rose]

With the extra inch cut of the steerer.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2023, at 3:14 PM, greenteadrinkers <greentea...@gmail.com> wrote:

Looks great! BL does a really nice job with the spacers. Would be super cool to see a quill version of the V5.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ffca09b8-a3b5-4361-991b-f4a7aea4e868n%40googlegroups.com.

[Richard Rose]

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2023, at 4:27 PM, Richard Rose <rmro...@gmail.com> wrote:

With the extra inch cut of the steerer.

[Patrick Moore]

Now that's interesting; fun video. I was struck by (a) the skinny front tire and (b) by the wide bar. I wish I had such firm, smooth dirt to ride on. A bar like the Losco/Bosco/Tosco/what have you might be very usable if you could set it up for cruising at the curves and use the wide ends only for sketchy technical situations.

But: 4-bolt and insufficient; that's instructive. This and other threads about Rivendell widebars slipping in single-clamp stems, 4-bolt, 2-bolt, or 1-bolt, makes me think that Riv should devise its own "Y-clamp" stem.

Patrick Moore, resolutely bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM

[Richard Rose]

A couple of observations.

I had a 650 Tosco with 135 FacePlater on the Clem. That particular bar has bulged 31.8 clamp area. That handlebar did not budge. It never slipped & I never needed to tighten the 4 bolt stem. But, I found the bar to be too wide.

So I got the 550 wide Bosco with 25.4 clamp area & 135 FacePlater. That has been very stable also on & off road but it did slip a couple of times on small drops off road. I’ve re-torqued and had no further issues.

For my Gus I got the 580 Bosco also 25.4 but that one is a sleeved aluminum bar. I figured the V5 stem would be my best chance for no slippage ridden aggressively off road. When I put it together I used carbon paste which I’ve read aids in slip prevention. I am hopeful.:)

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 22, 2023, at 10:00 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[lconley]

I am not surprised that he broke one of the stem bolts. Once fairly tight, you sneak up on the tightening,  about 1/4 turn per bolt (which should have been installed with grease or never-seize), on all the bolts in a criss-cross pattern, and repeat. You also check that the gaps are equal on both sides of the bar clamp/face plate. You don't just crank down as hard as you can on each bolt.

Laing

[Richard Rose]

Somewhat frustrated that my new Nitto stem came with no torque specifications. Assuming 4-6 is good?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 23, 2023, at 12:14 PM, lconley <lco...@brph.com> wrote:

I am not surprised that he broke one of the stem bolts. Once fairly tight, you sneak up on the tightening,  about 1/4 turn per bolt (which should have been installed with grease or never-seize), on all the bolts in a criss-cross pattern, and repeat. You also check that the gaps are equal on both sides of the bar clamp/face plate. You don't just crank down as hard as you can on each bolt.

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