1st world commuting dilemma

[Josh C]

Hello all. I find myself trying to make a decision regarding which bike to use as my commuter. 

Background: I live in Indianapolis and ride my bike for a good chunk of my daily needs. I have a short commute to work which is done on bike 90% of the time. I usually work from 5:20-ish am to about 6:30 pm 3-4 days a week. The only days I don't ride in are if it's pouring rain when I get up, or the snow is too deep to get through. I could ride in the rain, and don't mind it on the way home, but already get up at 4:30 am and simply don't have time to change or mess with it on work days. I'm commuting on a Rohloff-equipped Surly Ogre currently and have put less than 1K miles on my car this year. We live near downtown and are a short ride to many things that we like to do. We often ride to ball games, art exhibits, concerts, dinners, drinks...you name it.  

Dilemma: Now I warned you that this is a 1st world problem, but here goes. I have several Riv's and they are my favorite bikes to ride but I find myself on the Ogre more often than any other bike. I may accumulate more miles on my Rivs, as I ride a Toyo Atlantis as my all-road bike, but I do way more trips on the Surly. For some reason, I simply feel more comfortable locking up the Surly for 13 hours or outside of a music venue downtown than I do a Rivendell. In my mind, the Riv seems like more of a target for would-be thieves than the Surly and thus it gets most of the day-to-day duty. The thing is that I enjoy riding a Rivendell much more than the Surly and, after giving this some thought, had decided to buy a Clem when this latest batch of completes was released, and start using it for my daily driver. 

However, after doing some math in my head, and realizing that I'd likely change a lot of the Clem complete build, I am thinking that I'd might as well ride one of the Rivs that I currently own. By the time I get the Clem to my door, I've spent $2500 with shipping and tax. I'd change the bars, add a saddle, add fenders, have the front wheel rebuilt with a dyno hub, and so on. I'd easily be into it for $3K or more. My Surly has a $1400 rear hub and is easily over the $3K mark. 

I am lucky enough to have two Rivendell Atlantis and a Hunq. I've owned several others in the past as well. One of the Atlantis bikes that I have would fit the bill. It's the more recent style with the longer wheelbase & double top tube. These are super sturdy bikes that wouldn't mind being loaded up and taken to work. I've already got a wheelset with a dyno hub and a light lying around here somewhere. I purchased this bike for $3K this summer from a local guy. I didn't need the bike but just couldn't pass it up as it was so cool! 

I thought to myself: I've locked up more expensive bikes at work for 13 hours or at music venues until the wee hours of the night without issue, so why not just do the bulk of my riding on a bike that I truly enjoy riding? What am I saving it for? 

Questions: Is my logic sound? Do you think that riding a nice Riv to work, to lock it up outside all, day in a city, is a dumb idea? Do you commute on a Riv that is left outside all day? 

I'd also like to use this as an opportunity to see some of your commuters. Feel free to post a pic of your daily driver and also, let us know if you lock it up outside or not. 

The potential commuter. (I'd change the fenders and bars)

My current all road bike

Not a commuter. I ride this guy around quite a bit though. 

The Surly, although it now has had Jones bars on it for quite some time. 

[Ginz]

ah yes,, the least expensive bike always gets the most use, doesn't it?

If you like the Atlantis and WANT to use it as a commuter, go for it.   View it as a personal challenge to beat it up, wear it out and use it up.  Accept that part of that challenge includes the bike *might* disappear one day.  That's just a possibility, not certainty.   However, this is all easy for me to say.  I have the same habits you do!

Good luck!

Ginz

[Hoch in ut]

How long is your commute? Mine is pretty short. 3 miles. So I’ve used various bikes, including an Ogre. Ride quality doesn’t matter so much, as I’m on the bike for 10-15 minutes. 

If it’s longer, it depends on your risk appetite. I don’t use any of my nice bikes due to reason above but also because I’d be too concerned about the bike to focus on work. If I were in your shoes, I’d just keep going with the Ogre. 

Or if you have a new bike itch, think about a Brompton. Small wheels are pretty fun to ride. And you can take the whole thing inside with you. 

[Cody Marvin]

I live in Chicago and I have a Hillborne that I commute on, though my office is in Evanston and bike theft around there is probably very low. But I also lock it up around the city and don't worry about it. I've been riding in Chicago for 15 years or so, and I've had three bikes stolen, but all were taken from my garage. I've had parts stolen off of bikes, but it's always been either at train stops or somewhere where there's not much foot traffic. Now I don't hesitate to take any of my bikes anywhere, even locking them up for a while at night, so long as everything's locked properly and out in the open. I also have a pretty heavy-duty lock.

I have to say, I'm not convinced that a thief would be more likely to steal a Rivendell than a Surly. There are so many Surlys out there (I've got one myself), it seems like they'd be easier to offload under the radar. Bikes with extra tubes and such are just weird-looking to the average person and unique enough that they're more likely to be noticed by the original owner. Thieving is not my profession, but if I'm looking at a rack with both your Surly and your Hunq on it, I'm going for the Surly.

Here's a not-so-great photo of my commuter (along with my son's bike, he got the gray one to match mine). A few years yet before he's ready for a Riv.

Cody, Chicago

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[Bill Schaefer]

I'm always of the opinion to ride the bike you like the most, as often as possible. I bought a new bike years ago (my first real bike purchase) and I told my friend that I was still going to use my old crappy bike to commute to work with so I didn't have to worry about theft, and he told me that he would kick my ass if I did that. He was obviously joking, but his point was made and I never looked back. I've been commuting on my Atlantis exclusively since I got it earlier this year and that's my dream bike. It's just more fun to ride and makes the commute better.

[Josiah Anderson]

I commute to a college campus in a city with a notorious bike theft problem on my Gus Boots-Willsen and my Crust Lightning Bolt, so I would say go for it with the Atlantis. I always lock up in high-traffic areas, use two locks if leaving it overnight, and ideally lock near more mainstream "nice" bikes that would be more attractive to thieves. I figure that to most eyes my Crust looks like a bike boom 10 speed and my Gus looks like a beach cruiser, and if there's a Specialized mtb next to it that's the more likely target. 

The only time I really feel the need to use my "beater" bike (currently a Bianchi Volpe) is in the winter when the roads are salty. I don't know what Indianapolis winters are like, but if the roads are salty and gross, I would hesitate to ride a Riv. It just ruins bikes so fast if you don't get around to cleaning and re-lubing regularly, which is often the case for me with about 80 hours a week of school and work.

Good luck with your decision!

Josiah 

Missoula MT

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[Brian Forsee]

Ride the Atlantis! It'll probably be fine and worst case scenario it gets stolen and not recovered, and it sounds like that would not be an end of the world situation for you.

[Patrick Moore]

First world problem indeed! But I felt it back when I commuted to an office.

First, is there any way you could cajole, plead, whine, insist that your employer let you park your bike inside? Do you have an office? I was always able to park the bike in my office (once I had a second office as a garage) and that solved many problems -- one huge advantage of always working for smaller organizations.

Or what about locking the bike in a parking garage, out of the way of at least many casual thieves and vandals?

But lastly: If I had had to park outside in the a place with "average" risk of theft, I'd have done 1 of 2 things: 1. get a beater that rides like my "good" bikes and build it for performance but make it look as ugly and cheap as I could; or: 2. uglify and simplify (strip as far as practical) one of my good bikes. and in each case, load it up with locks. I always commuted on fixed gears so that was already a big step in diminishing apparent resale value.

But even more lastly: if there were no alternative and I had to risk theft of a $2.5K Clem or ride a bike that didn't feel as good -- I dunno, I'd be hard pressed to decide what to do.

I've attached a (yes, another already) photo of my principal errand bike (I no longer commute to work) but I do errands and ride to church and other places on all of my bikes. New: hot-rodded ASC hub!!!

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[Jay Lonner]

We should all be so lucky as to have “beaters” as nice as that Surly! With a Rohloff and disc brakes that sounds like a perfect winter commuter. My first winter in Wisconsin the road salt trashed the drivetrain on my XO-1. Maybe that’s not an issue in Indianapolis, but I’d be hesitant to subject one of your “nice” bikes to such abuse. I’d be tempted to set up the Surly with studded tires for when it’s really gnarly out, and ride one of the Rivs when the roads are clear and/or the weather is clement. 

Jay Lonner

Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

On Dec 7, 2023, at 8:38 AM, Josiah Anderson <anderso...@gmail.com> wrote:



I commute to a college campus in a city with a notorious bike theft problem on my Gus Boots-Willsen and my Crust Lightning Bolt, so I would say go for it with the Atlantis. I always lock up in high-traffic areas, use two locks if leaving it overnight, and ideally lock near more mainstream "nice" bikes that would be more attractive to thieves. I figure that to most eyes my Crust looks like a bike boom 10 speed and my Gus looks like a beach cruiser, and if there's a Specialized mtb next to it that's the more likely target. 

The only time I really feel the need to use my "beater" bike (currently a Bianchi Volpe) is in the winter when the roads are salty. I don't know what Indianapolis winters are like, but if the roads are salty and gross, I would hesitate to ride a Riv. It just ruins bikes so fast if you don't get around to cleaning and re-lubing regularly, which is often the case for me with about 80 hours a week of school and work.

Good luck with your decision!

Josiah 

Missoula MT

Le jeu. 7 déc. 2023 à 7:49 AM, Josh C <getjosh...@gmail.com> a écrit :

Hello all. I find myself trying to make a decision regarding which bike to use as my commuter. 

Background: I live in Indianapolis and ride my bike for a good chunk of my daily needs. I have a short commute to work which is done on bike 90% of the time. I usually work from 5:20-ish am to about 6:30 pm 3-4 days a week. The only days I don't ride in are if it's pouring rain when I get up, or the snow is too deep to get through. I could ride in the rain, and don't mind it on the way home, but already get up at 4:30 am and simply don't have time to change or mess with it on work days. I'm commuting on a Rohloff-equipped Surly Ogre currently and have put less than 1K miles on my car this year. We live near downtown and are a short ride to many things that we like to do. We often ride to ball games, art exhibits, concerts, dinners, drinks...you name it.  

Dilemma: Now I warned you that this is a 1st world problem, but here goes. I have several Riv's and they are my favorite bikes to ride but I find myself on the Ogre more often than any other bike. I may accumulate more miles on my Rivs, as I ride a Toyo Atlantis as my all-road bike, but I do way more trips on the Surly. For some reason, I simply feel more comfortable locking up the Surly for 13 hours or outside of a music venue downtown than I do a Rivendell. In my mind, the Riv seems like more of a target for would-be thieves than the Surly and thus it gets most of the day-to-day duty. The thing is that I enjoy riding a Rivendell much more than the Surly and, after giving this some thought, had decided to buy a Clem when this latest batch of completes was released, and start using it for my daily driver. 

However, after doing some math in my head, and realizing that I'd likely change a lot of the Clem complete build, I am thinking that I'd might as well ride one of the Rivs that I currently own. By the time I get the Clem to my door, I've spent $2500 with shipping and tax. I'd change the bars, add a saddle, add fenders, have the front wheel rebuilt with a dyno hub, and so on. I'd easily be into it for $3K or more. My Surly has a $1400 rear hub and is easily over the $3K mark. 

I am lucky enough to have two Rivendell Atlantis and a Hunq. I've owned several others in the past as well. One of the Atlantis bikes that I have would fit the bill. It's the more recent style with the longer wheelbase & double top tube. These are super sturdy bikes that wouldn't mind being loaded up and taken to work. I've already got a wheelset with a dyno hub and a light lying around here somewhere. I purchased this bike for $3K this summer from a local guy. I didn't need the bike but just couldn't pass it up as it was so cool! 

I thought to myself: I've locked up more expensive bikes at work for 13 hours or at music venues until the wee hours of the night without issue, so why not just do the bulk of my riding on a bike that I truly enjoy riding? What am I saving it for? 

Questions: Is my logic sound? Do you think that riding a nice Riv to work, to lock it up outside all, day in a city, is a dumb idea? Do you commute on a Riv that is left outside all day? 

I'd also like to use this as an opportunity to see some of your commuters. Feel free to post a pic of your daily driver and also, let us know if you lock it up outside or not. 

The potential commuter. (I'd change the fenders and bars)

<IMG_0630 Medium.jpeg>

My current all road bike

<IMG_0514 Medium.jpeg>

Not a commuter. I ride this guy around quite a bit though. 

<IMG_0570 Medium.jpeg>

The Surly, although it now has had Jones bars on it for quite some time. 

<IMG_0230 Medium.jpeg>

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[Patrick Moore]

Speaking of parking indoors: our priest got tired of me taking the bike into the church (well, it was until a couple of weeks ago a prefab now used as the hall) to park it in the bathroom or library or kitchen, so he gave me a key to the outside utility closet. I had seniority rights as I'd been parking inside since about 1995 and he only arrived in about 2010.

I think he gave me the key after I wheeled my Ken Rogers into the library at the start of a parish council meeting ....

[George Schick]

I used to do multi-mode commuting before I retired about 18 years ago - ride the bike to the station, take train to the city, walk 4-5 blocks to the office.  Never worried much about theft out here in the 'burbs while working downtown because it was an old early 70's Fuji that I had re-geared and converted for commuting.  It was the ideal bike for that - rode well, handled well, and was by no means an eye-catcher.

BUT, I'd be way more concerned about salt damage during the Winter months (used to live in the Indy area myself and, yes, they use it on the streets there in abundance) and riding on hazardous icy slick surfaces than I would theft.

BTW, why the classification of your Indy location, or the U.S. for that matter, as a 1st World country in particular?  In many ways nowadays it is backsliding into 3rd World status.

[Josh C]

 Ginz - Thanks for the reply. I feel like riding it and using it for its intended purpose is probably the right answer. I just feel like it may be a bit of a target. IDK, it’s mostly us nerds that think Rivss are cool and not beach cruisers anyway, right… Forgive me if I should know; do you commute on a Rivendell Ginz? 

Hoch - My commute is short as well, and by design. The last time I moved and got a new job I made sure that my work was in the same zip code as my residence. I see your point about riding the Ogre, but again, it’s not a cheap bike to replace either. Also, my job is too all-consuming to worry about anything else while at work; which can good and bad at times. 

Cody - Thanks for adding some real-world experience commuting with that killer Hillborne. You’re right, people seem to know Surly better (at least here in the Midwest) I probably get more compliments on the Ogre and my daughter’s Crosscheck than I do my Rivs. Thanks for adding the pic of your bikes…notes the saddle lock…is that wrapped in an old tube? 

Bill - Well put. That’s how I’m viewing it. Again, I put more miles on the drop bar Atlantis but I ride my commuter WAY more often. Bill, do you have the luxury of taking your daily driver inside or do you park out in the wild? I’d love to see a pic too if you've got time. 

Josiah - Love that you ride those bikes around and lock ‘em up outside. I do figure that most people don’t think the Atlantis is cool enough to steal, not compared to other bikes around. Indy used to get snow regularly, all winter long, but now we get maybe 1 or 2 good snows and the rest is just slop. If it’s too nasty I’ll just drive. I don’t have time in the mornings to show up covered in road sludge. 

B - I agree

Patrick - Told ya. First world problem indeed. I work in a hospital in critical care and there just really isn’t anywhere to put it. I do park out of the way as much as possible but can't take it in. I love that Matthews and your utilitarian approach to John’s strap-rigged, awkward, package haul’n 

[Josh C]

Jay - I didn’t call the Surly a beater, just my commuter. I know it's a nice bike. It’s very utilitarian and bombproof, I just like riding the Rivs more is all. I like the idea of using the Surly in the salty months. I thought about that too. I’ve not needed studded tires over the last few years. I’m fine riding on the snow and then it seems to mostly melt off in a few days. Some patchy ice but I've dodged much of it successfully thus far. I guess it's one of the positives of global warming…doesn’t snow much here anymore. 

Patrick - I love the idea of you popping in pushing your bike…one freehub paw click at a time 

George - Those are good points and there's a lot to be said about just riding a cheap but pleasant commuter to work. It makes sense to do, I’m just leaning toward not doing the sensible thing. I also didn’t say Indy was 1st world, sometimes I hear more gunshots here than I did on my two tours in Iraq, I do think that posing the question of “which $3k bike should I ride to work” does fit the bill as a “complaint or fairly minor problem associated with a relatively high standard of living”, aka 1st world prob. Maybe I should move to Denmark…

I saw Kai’s mustard Clem H in Leah’s bike makeover thread and it got me questioning why I had these killer bikes sitting in the garage while the Surly gets all the work. Then that Cheviot in the Craigslist thread, oh and don’t get me started on Pam’s mixte. I like the Surly, don’t get me wrong, but it’s no Atlantis. I love seeing people’s well-used Rivendell bikes. 

[Hoch in ut]

I get more compliments on my Ogre than my Riv’s as well! I’ve got one like your Hunq but in green. I’d never take that commuting. Not so much for it getting stolen but folks not being gentle when they lock up their bikes. And honestly, getting it stolen. 

They salt the roads here as well. I’d never take my Riv’s after a storm. 

I recently bought a fairly nice Trek FX for my daughter. Low-mid level Shimano components. Everything works well. Has fender and rack mounts. All for $50! It’s a nice riding bike. And probably something I’d consider if I needed a cheap, nice-riding commuter. Especially for the salty winter months. 

[Josh C]

That Ogre is ready to go, nice! I wouldn't consider commuting on the Hunq either but I do ride it like anything else. 

[Greg J]

Another suggestion for your consideration is to cover up the downtube "Atlantis" logo with color-matching tape. Of course, you may not wish to, but I think that would deter at least some thieves - they can't do real-time research by looking up what an Atlantis is worth.  I used to do this back in the day with my Ritchey MTB.

Greg  

[Patrick Moore]

This suggestion reminds me of the "pseudo Ram" that someone on the boblist posted 10 or 15 years ago on a thread about beater commuters. It was, IIRC, a decent UJB or bike book sports tourer built up nicely but cheaply with the frame very elegantly and completely wrapped in first-ed-Ram orange duct tape. In fact, dim memories stir in my back-brain to tell me it might have been cyclofiend ...?

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Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

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[rlti...@gmail.com]

BikeSnob commutes on his Homer in NYC and locks it up outside. I imagine Indianapolis would be less of a bike theft city than NYC. 

I think with the right locks and locking technique a Riv would be safe to lock up. I lock my e-cargo bike routinely and do so with a combination of different locks. I did just go in on the new Hiplok D1000 Kickstarter to up my lock game though.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 7, 2023, at 6:49 AM, Josh C <getjosh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello all. I find myself trying to make a decision regarding which bike to use as my commuter. 

<IMG_0630 Medium.jpeg>

My current all road bike

<IMG_0514 Medium.jpeg>

Not a commuter. I ride this guy around quite a bit though. 

<IMG_0570 Medium.jpeg>

The Surly, although it now has had Jones bars on it for quite some time. 

[Luke Hendrickson]

Most folks think my bike is vintage, old, and worthless. Those who know what a Rivendell is are most likely not the thieving type. Life is short and bike insurance is plentiful!

All that said, I commute solely on my Atlantis, but never leave it locked up for long and rarely out of sight. Thus says more about my own neuroses than the crime here in San Francisco which is, for the record, NOT accurately portrayed in the media.

I look forward to hearing how you decide to proceed. I do hope that you opt for the double tt Atlantis personally. I love mine and it makes each mile commuted all the better. 

[iamkeith]

I can't seem to get past Josiah's reply, referring to Missoula and the U of M as having a notorious bike theft problem.  If that's true, then things have really changed since I went to college in Montana (MSU) in the 1980s, and is very sad.  I can't help but think/hope though, that bike theft there is mostly a crime of convenience?  College kids taking someone else's bike home from the bar, perhaps?  I can't even fathom it being as bad as Denver, where my daughter now attends college, and where bike theft is a full-fledged industry, and where the police turn a blind eye even when someone locates their stolen bike.  Thieves there use cordless angle grinders to cut locks in broad daylight, with no fear of repercussion.

What matters is crime conditions in Indianapolis though, and Josh's tollerance for risk.  I'm going to take the contrarian view, and say don't ride anything that you're not WILLING to lose.   If theft occurs locally on any kind of regular basis, just concede that it's inevitable.  Economics would matter more than brand to a thief - so they should to you, too.  If you can afford to replace the bike without it being a hardship, then go for it.  You can still get your current Atlantis, so there's not even the "irreplaceable" consideration that you'd have with the hunquapillar.   

On the other hand, if losing the bike is going to be a hardship or cause you to loose sleep and become bitter, get a "true" beater, and tune it for efficiency.   The fact that you're asking this question tells me you have some concerns.

But my opinion is  based on my own priorities and the life choices I've made, which are probably different than most people's..  I deliberately chose to live in a place where theft is non-existent, even though that choice came with career limitations and economic implications.  Partly for that reason, I tend to treasure my nice bikes and think of them as lifetime investments or heirlooms.  I usually don't have to make this choice, but I think I'd be happy to make riding them a stricly "special event," while having a dedicated sacrificial bike for the mundane.

[Cody Marvin]

"Thanks for adding the pic of your bikes…notes the saddle lock…is that wrapped in an old tube?"

I've used the chain in a tube method before, but as a tinkerer I found it to be kind of a pain if I want to swap saddles, so I have a couple of these Kryptonite locks. They cost $10-15. I've also found them to be useful when I'm on rides outside the city - if I want to stop for a few in a relatively low-theft area, there are no bike racks or skinny poles, and my Abus lock is too short to go around a telephone pole or whatever, I can use this to lock the frame.

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[Josh C]

Greg, Patrick - I’ve thought about a variation on that, a smattering of stickers covering the decals. Not sure I’ll do either. I’m nearly 40 and a bit over stickers all over things and not sure I’d like the look of tape. 

Robert - You’re right I’m sure NYC is more of a “bike theft city” but if you’ve been there in the last few years it is nearly 100% e-bikes in the city now and I’m sure that Eben enjoys some benefit of the target-rich environment that a huge city packed full of e-bikes brings. His old-fashioned bike likely doesn't draw much attention in that town these days. 

Luke - This is my sentiment as well. I love your setup and thanks for posting a pic. I’ve seen that bike before and it’s killer. I’d probably put a front rack and basket on mine as well but also like a good old-fashioned rack and pannier for schlepping my junk to work. I’m a pannier for work and basket for fun kind of guy. 

Keith - There are concerns for theft for sure but I’ve ridden things that cost more than the Atlantis and they’ve not come up missing. What I don’t want is to ride what I think will be safe for years and years just to end up with a garage full of unused bikes that I wish I had used more. I’m leaning toward giving it a go. If it gets stolen, maybe I’ll go back to the surly or grab a Clem. I feel you regarding living in a place with low theft but I work in cardiovascular critical care medicine as an NP and the only real spot for this type of work is in larger cities. Also, I love Indy but it does have its downsides. 

Cody - Gotcha, yeah that’s a good idea. I do a similar zip-tie type combo lock for long road rides. It’s a super light little thing that I take just to lock up if I need to pop into a gas station or store for food and hydration. I wouldn’t trust it long but it’s good for what it is. 

[Bill Schaefer]

Josh,

I actually lock mine up to the single bike rack in the loading dock of my building. Its in an area open to the public but its under an overhang so it's not getting rained on, and not too many people go down there, so its definitely a unique situation, and a bit safer than locking on the street since its only visible to anyone who wanders down there. Here's a pic from yesterday I snapped leaving work. The "reserved for management" sign makes me chuckle every time (that's for the car parking space).

On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 1:09:56 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:

[James Valiensi]

Hi,

Nice Atlantis! I recommend a cable lock thru the wheels too. Else you’ll come bake to a frame without wheels!

On Dec 8, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Bill Schaefer <wls...@gmail.com> wrote:

Josh,

I actually lock mine up to the single bike rack in the loading dock of my building. Its in an area open to the public but its under an overhang so it's not getting rained on, and not too many people go down there, so its definitely a unique situation, and a bit safer than locking on the street since its only visible to anyone who wanders down there. Here's a pic from yesterday I snapped leaving work. The "reserved for management" sign makes me chuckle every time (that's for the car parking space).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/40fa6997-15c8-40a6-afad-00b154fae3d8n%40googlegroups.com.
<IMG_4138.jpg>

[Bill Schaefer]

Haha, well the U lock is through the front wheel, and this was just a quick stop in the office so I wasn't worried about the rear wheel. Always good advice though!

[Josh C]

Bill - love the bike. Thanks for sharing. My parking situation is similar. Out of the way a bit but accessible by the public. 

I do a U lock through the back wheel and cable through the front wheel personally. 

[Dorothy C]

I have the benefit of gated parking where I work so I ride any of my Rivs as the fancy takes me. I’m in SoCal so ice is not an issue. What I have done on my 700c Roadini with Rich built wheels is to replace the QR skewers with Abus Nutfix locking skewers - there is a cap that hides 8mm wrench flats, that can’t be pulled out except when the wheel is exactly horizontal, so U locking the bike with them to the inside of the bike rack means the wheels can’t be taken off. 

[Armand Kizirian]

I've locked all my very expensive bikes without hesitation on a daily basis throughout different parts of Los Angeles, good and bad, for the last 15 years with zero issues. Let's get a reality check here.

1) The odds of a high security rated u-lock being cut are next to nill in a public setting. These often require angle grinders, which are loud as hell and shoot a stream of sparks 6-12ft long.

2) If you're concerned about your components, secure them. Considering the exorbitant amount of $ we spend on our bikes, a $60-120 investment is well worth it. I utilize hexlox inserts in seatpost/saddle/axle skewers/stem bolt and can be at complete ease to know essentially superflous items will only be stolen off my bike.

3) If you're still the worrying type. Hide an apple airtag or install a Knog Scout.

Ride your expensive bikes wherever you desire. Stop worrying, or worse, building cheaper bikes to not ride your expensive bikes.

[Kim H.]

This particular topic of yours, Josh C, reminds me of Leah Peterson's post about whether or not her son should take her father's Clem to college.

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/rlzGS4r3P9E/m/HZ2xjStfAgAJ

Kim Hetzel

I had a very enjoyable ride today on my new blue 52 Clem.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I love this advice the best. I bought the same Hexlox products as Armand, and though I’m not in a high-risk area, so far, so good. I started a thread on this topic months ago after Grant wrote a post saying that it’s such a bummer to a maker when he sees his creation relegated to being an ornament. (Not that you are doing that, OP, I know you ride your Rivs other ways!) All that work Grant poured into making bikes that are comfortable and capable of life’s daily demands is wasted if the bike is “too nice” to be used. He suggests that you ride the bike you love, since that’s what it’s meant for, but if it really grieves you to lock it up, get a 2nd Rivendell and be willing. Pam and Ana are some of our best ambassadors for this idealogy. Ana rides a custom and yet uses it as her daily driver!

I do not have an Air Tag in my bike, however…That is a good idea. Where should one hide it?

Leah

[Josh C]

Dorothy - Beautiful bike and thanks for the rec on the Nutfix. I had heard of Hexlox and Pinhead but not these from Abus. Those crafty Germans…

I’ve also heard of people putting a ball bearing down in the hex bolt divots with a dab of super glue. I guess the theory is that it can be dug out pretty easily once you're back home but would deter a would-be saddle thief or the like. I’ve never worried much about this personally. 

I do a fat U-lock through the rear wheel and frame, then a flex cable through the front wheel. 

[Josh C]

Armand - Hexlox are a good idea. My locking technique is pretty solid too. Also, not worrying just discussing. It’s not going to keep me up at night it just sort of dawned on me that I was riding a great, but somewhat less enjoyable bike for much of my riding and leaving my favorite bikes at home. I like your “just do it and stop worrying about it” mentality.

Kim - That’s a good point. I’ll give that one a read too. I liked the thread about not being precious with these bikes. They are both very applicable. 

Leah - Thanks for chiming in. After starting this thread someone posted to yours about being precious with Rivs and pushed it back to the top. I’ve read through that and it was exactly what I was looking for. You are correct in that Ana and Pam are prime examples. You can add Dorothy in SoCal, we’ve got Cody in Chicago, Patrick in Querque, Josiah in Missoula, Bill in the manager’s parking spot, Luke in San Fran, Armand in LA, and so on riding these things all over and locking ‘em up out in the wild. Count me in. 

[J Schwartz]

I've been leaving my Cheviot locked up with a single Kryptonite mini U-lock around the frame in NYC for the past few month since I started working there again

I've got Pitlock skewers on my wheels so I'm not concerned with my kind of expensive dynamo wheel set. ...don't even run cable through them.

I should run some sort of permanent cable through my saddle loops to my seat stays to prevent my seat post and my 20-year old B68 from being ripped off....Will do that next.  I think I can get a Pitlock for the seat cluster bolt that is keyed the same as my skewers..  *note to call Peter White

Yes, the U-lock can be cut, but I'm not leaving the bike out overnight...and I think where I park it , it would be pretty glaring if someone showed up with a angle grinder.

Maybe there's a better more secure option for the U-lock.

JS

[Kim H.]

@Leah -

Kim Hetzel

[Josh C]

J - I like the idea of using the Pitlock skewers or the like. I've just gotten so used to using a cable through my front wheel that it's second nature now. I'm glad you're doing ok with your Chev in the city. 

[Armand Kizirian]

Leah and others,

There are a plethora of cycle-specific products you can find that are designed to hide an airtag. A quick google search produced this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zutcGa73kbM

I personally use a generic "tagcozy" silicone holder that I've zip tied underneath the nose of my saddle, above the rails.

However, I would spend the additional $$ and get a knog scout for all my future bikes.

[JohnS]

Hello Josh,

The advice you've received so far is all good and I'm sure you'll find it to be very helpful. But have you considered asking your employer for secure bike parking? My current employer has bike lockers, locker rooms and showers, and a web page for bike commuters where people shared tips for commuting, recommended bike routes and the like. My previous employer had a parking garage where the ceiling sloped down so cars couldn't be parked there, but it was perfectly fine for bicycles. The bike parking area had a fence around it and a lot of the staple racks. They also provided locker rooms and showers. Years ago they used to give out coffee and donuts on Bike to Work Day. All of this was provided since people asked for it.

Seems to me that employers try to go out of their way promoting health and wellness, so take advantage of that when asking. Also are there other bike commuters or people who would like to bike to work but don't for one reason or another at the hospital? You may be more successful if there is a group making the request rather than one person. Lastly, is there a bicycle advocacy group in Indianapolis? They might be able to help you with you by providing cost estimates for racks or bike lockers.

Good luck and happy trails,

JohnS

[Kim H.]

@Kiziria -

Are there other alarms or GPS locating systems for bikes that do not use Apple iOS app ?

What about GPS trackers for pet animals ?  Would these work ?

Kim Hetzel.

[Minh]

there are bike specifc standalone gps trackers (Invoxia is one), but similar to apple tags, even if you can track your stolen bike to a known location, what can you do?  will you be able to get a police officer to help, would you be able to reclaim the bike?  phones are often tracked to known locations, but what then, how can you get it back?  

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

Whatever bike you ride, have fun, and use a lot of cables along with a decent u-lock. I like to make a bungee cord tether/bumper to initially secure my bike, it prevents the frame from grinding on the pole and acts as another line of defense/annoyance if and when my lock gets cut off. Here’s yesterday’s lock up, my Clem prepped to take home two lovely cedar benches I had saved from the dumpster at my work. Didn’t bring my Rivendell trailer, suffering the Surly 😉

-Kai

Bungee blob

CENTRAL PARKing 

On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:07:25 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:

[Josh C]

Kai - I love that rig!

[George Schick]

Best bike for commuting; most unlikely to be stolen...

[Jason Fuller]

I'm late the conversation but I do this math all the time for my own endless cycle of optimization. What I've come to appreciate lately is that if I have less bikes, then a) each bike gets used proportionally more and I've wrung more 'worth' out of it in the event it were ever stolen and b) the money saved by having less bikes is basically a piggy bank towards a new bike if ever it were to happen.  Similar to you, by the time I've spec'd even a "beater" to my tastes, it's a bit of an investment as I can't live without dynamo and a good set of fenders and racks. 

I also honestly think the Surly is a bigger thief magnet than a Rivendell, because Surly is a more well-known name as being fairly valuable bikes. Rivs just look like classic bikes to the untrained eye, generally. 

Better than having a purpose built bike for locking up is to have a well-protected bike when you do lock up IMO.  Finding a spot that lacks privacy for a would-be thief is #1 for me, such as in front of a coffee shop or restaurant that'll be open the whole time it's there. Then two locks, plus using theft-resistant products like Hexlox to secure the wheels, saddle, and stem. 

[Roberta]

“don't ride anything that you're not WILLING to lose.”— iamkeith

I live in city (Philadelphia) with bike theft issue. I’ve decided on a commute/lockup bike that I can replace while loving the ride. I bought a She-Devil. If it gets stolen, I can replace it. And, I love the ride for my 2 mile trek. I can bring it into my office, but didn’t know that when I decided on it for commuting. 

I am getting rid of the she-Devil and the bike I’m most likely to ride to work and errands , and lock up is my Playpus.  Because I can replace it. 

When I do lock up my bikes, it’s similar to Jason’s method. One krypton  New York  ULock on frame wheel and pole. Another ulock wheel to frame. Heavy locks but extra protection and peace of mind. I have a third u lock if I’m really nervous.  They’d have to work hard to get the bike. It’s too easy to cut cable—that’s how my last bike got stolen. 

I also will have pitlock on seatpost and saddle ( when I get around to installing them). Need to protect myB68 saddle. 

whatever bike you decide to ride, you should enjoy the ride. 

Roberta 

On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:07:25 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:

[Tim Donner]

After building up a dream bike, the bike shop reminded me- "It's a tool, not a jewel". It was a good reminder to enjoy the things you have as much as possible. I totally understand if people decide to ride a back up bike if that gives them a peace of mind. I lived in Portland for 20+ years and bike theft has always been a huge issue. A few things that gave me peace of mind

-locking skewers

-a Mini u-lock locked up ala Sheldon Brown (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/lock-strategy.html)- happy to carry a heavy lock (strapped on my bike rack)

-Always testing what I was locking to- is it a short street sign someone could remove the sign from the top and pull the bike up and over? Is the post a little wobbly? Is the item easier to cut than a u-lock, etc

-locking in high traffic areas, I feel within eye sight of windows is even more important to me vs amongst other bikes. When it's crowded with other bikes people just think- oh, that person is getting their bike. If your bike is all alone it's more obvious if someone is fussing with it. 

-not leaving my bike out at night

-Try not to lock up close to intersections (see below for why)

Once my bike was hit by a car (when it was locked up to a stop sign) and totaled at an intersection- big nasty crash. The driver's insurance wanted to give me pennies on the dollar but my renter's insurance came through and paid me the actual cost of my bike! They didn't make it easy, saying if I "keep making claims" they would drop me (this was my one and only claim in years, which I reminded them), but it was nice to be able to build up a similar, and ultimately better bike. Not sure if renters/home owners insurance covers theft away from the home, but something worth looking into. Definitely not the same since you might have special parts/memories/hard to find components, etc, but I was so happy that I was able to rebuild a new bike and it didn't have to come out of my pocket. 

[Patrick Moore]

It's interesting to read of others' solutions. I confess that mine had I to leave my bike locked all day in sketchy areas would be to use a beater, but a nice beater, and this could turn into a "nice beater" thread!

I'll start: There are 2 beaters that I owned long ago that I almost wish I'd kept: the first-gen Raleigh Technium which didn't feel so much spritely as cushy with noodle frame (tho' heavy) and -- for the era, early '00s -- fat soft 32 cm tires. Then the Motobecane that I think Eric Norris still has. Both built a fixed gear commuters with scavenged but decent parts -- I think now I'd invest in better tires; even a stolen RH tire is "only" $100; but Tourney centerpulls and Normandy hubs work as well when you are not looking at them as Dura Ace, for commuting at least. I did some of my cross-town commuting PBs on the Motobecane.

Actually, various top-model early '90s mtbs converted to drops would also make excellent commuters with fat tires for dirt routes.

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 7:36 AM Tim Donner <timoth...@gmail.com> wrote:

After building up a dream bike, the bike shop reminded me- "It's a tool, not a jewel".

 

“don't ride anything that you're not WILLING to lose.”— iamkeith

I live in city (Philadelphia) with bike theft issue. I’ve decided on a commute/lockup bike that I can replace while loving the ride.

On Saturday, December 9, 2023 at 10:07:25 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:

[Patrick Moore]

I'd been using 559 X 22s or 571 X 22s on my Riv customs, even for commuting; now 26 X 1" Specialized Turbos were surprisingly comfortable at 80/90 -- very nice tires; fast! -- but by comparison 32s (Vittorias) were like beach tires.

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:30 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  fat soft 32 cm tires.

[Jason Fuller]

Despite my advice above about "ride whatcha got and lock it well", I do actually have a lock-up bike, though it happened organically.  I've had this old Twenty since about 2008, and it was upgraded over time. Drum brakes, "GT365" Marathons for all-weather, 5 speed, dynamo. It's a solid little bike (and weight to match) and I'm very comfortable locking it up as it still looks very unassuming 

[Josh C]

George - That does look unlikely to be stolen but not sure I can get aero enough on the can…

Jason - I like the idea of saving more money and getting more out of what I have. I’m glad that I didn’t buy a new Clem just to keep my other bikes in the garage. 

Roberta - I’m not sure that I’m “willing” to lose any bike, to be honest, but the Atlantis is replaceable. Like that you’re using the Platy as your daily. I too carry the NY kryptonite lock, but only use one. One through the rear wheel/frame with a cable through the front wheel. I’m thinking that I could also just leave a second at work, locked to the rack, and use it as a second U without having to schlep it back and forth. I should look into the pitlocks or the like. I know they exist but have never really considered them for some reason. 

Timothy - What’s your dream bike? We wanna see…

As for your locking method, same. I think it’s kind of the only good way to do it. Lock through the fame/back wheel, then cable through the front wheel. I guess a second U-lock for the front wheel/frame is always safer but starts to get heavy. I’m heavy enough without 2 U-locks strapped to me. 

Patrick - I started commuting on an old surly LHT that was worn enough that most of the decals had been scuffed off. It did the job, and I still have it, but I don’t really love that bike. It’s about as “beater” as I’d go personally. I want to enjoy running errands and commuting on bike, that’s the whole point for me. I believe that I’m on a 2” tire currently. The Atlantis has 700x50 gravel kings on it which I’d probably leave be. I too would like to see folk’s beaters and commuters. 

[Josh C]

Somewhat related, I drove my car to work 1 day in November because it was wet and I didn’t wanna be wet, and someone hit my car in the parking lot. I mean hit it hard. Naturally, they just drove off. 

It’ll need a new front passenger side fender and the bumper repainted. Figures. I'm guessing it's about a new Riv worth of damage. Just dropped it at the shop today. 

[Patrick Moore]

Actually, there is one more "beater" that I might like to have back: my first Rivendell custom road bike, a 1995 Waterford-built 26" wheel bike that I later converted to a fixed gear drivetrain (ENO hub, Dremel, file, paint). Customs 2 and 3 were so much better in design -- slightly shallower head, longer chainstays, sloping tts and extended head tubes --  that I felt little regret in chopping up #1; OTOH, it did make a very nice beater fixed gear commuter.

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 10:30 AM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

... I'll start: There are 2 beaters that I owned long ago that I almost wish I'd kept: the first-gen Raleigh Technium which didn't feel so much spritely as cushy with noodle frame (tho' heavy) and -- for the era, early '00s -- fat soft 32 cm tires. Then the Motobecane that I think Eric Norris still has. Both built a fixed gear commuters with scavenged but decent parts -- I think now I'd invest in better tires; even a stolen RH tire is "only" $100; but Tourney centerpulls and Normandy hubs work as well when you are not looking at them as Dura Ace, for commuting at least. I did some of my cross-town commuting PBs on the Motobecane.

[Patrick Moore]

I meant to stress that with a bit of looking one might very well find a beater that gives 9/10 (metaphor, not measurement) of what your "nice" bike gives in terms of ride, fit, feel, pleasure. 

On Mon, Dec 11, 2023 at 11:07 AM Josh C <getjosh...@gmail.com> wrote:

...  Patrick - I started commuting on an old surly LHT that was worn enough that most of the decals had been scuffed off. It did the job, and I still have it, but I don’t really love that bike. It’s about as “beater” as I’d go personally. I want to enjoy running errands and commuting on bike, that’s the whole point for me. I believe that I’m on a 2” tire currently. The Atlantis has 700x50 gravel kings on it which I’d probably leave be. I too would like to see folk’s beaters and commuters. 

[Ryan]

My X0-1 and Peugeot PX10 did just that.when I was

still working...and with less than ideal security it was a no-brainer 

[Chester]

On Monday, December 11, 2023 at 10:07:11 AM UTC-8 Josh C wrote:

Timothy - What’s your dream bike? We wanna see…

As for your locking method, same. I think it’s kind of the only good way to do it. Lock through the fame/back wheel, then cable through the front wheel. I guess a second U-lock for the front wheel/frame is always safer but starts to get heavy. I’m heavy enough without 2 U-locks strapped to me. 

If the hospital you work at has an area to lock up the bikes that is pretty well trafficked and someone going at a U-lock with an angle grinder is not typically going to be ignored, then I would worry about security a lot less. Especially if in view of staff who are usually around. Even more so if you lock up with two locks. Good idea to leave one at work and carry one with you. Even better if one is a high security chain so that they're two different styles. 

And especially if you ugly it up. I wouldn't festoon it with stickers, but you could wrap up sections with old inner tubes and/or mismatched cloth tape that you get a little grimy to make it look more like it might be someone's random, old mass-produced steel beater. 

I don't think thieves are going to target something like a Rivendell so much. A bike that needs to be recognized by someone who knows what it is to get what it's worth, but which also is more noteworthy and attracts more detailed attention. Maybe I'm thinking too much into it and there might be plenty of thieves very happy to sell off a Riv. But, in any case, I wouldn't be surprised at all if your Surly would be as tempting a target than your Rivs, maybe even more.

Chester

SF Bay Area

[Josh C]

Chester - I'll give it a go and see. I'm going to be moving in early spring and will probably wait until then to start commuting on the Riv. I will have more garage space to tear it down, lube everything well, soak it in frame saver, and put it back together. I think I'll keep on with the Surly until then. The chain idea is a good one. I could maybe just leave a chain and mini-U lock at work and bring another U with me.