TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

[Steve]

Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes I've ever used.

Today I took the bike out on my usual graveled forest service road route, bleeding the front end down from 27 to 25 psi about 1/2 into the ride  My first impression is that they  compare favorably to the ride feel of a tubeless setup. 

Before I sip the kool aid and start buying more of these things - given the cost - I'm wondering if anyone has had long term experience with them (not necessarily the WTB version).   Any punctures, did they patch satisfactorily? Longevity? Your impressions of the quality?

 I'll add that they dropped about 200 grams of ugly fat from the wheels - but that wasn't my main objective.

Steve

[Brian Turner]

Steve, are you using them on your Riv or another bike? I was under the impression that TPU tubes were recommended for disc brakes only - I assume due to the heat generated by rim brakes? I’m curious about them, but don’t really have the right application for them in my stable.

Brian

Lex KY 

On Apr 19, 2024, at 10:41 PM, Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

Last evening I mounted a pair of WTB TPU inner tubes under 700c x 48mm knobby RH tires. I was pleasantly surprised by how easily they mounted up with just enough inflation to plump them a bit. Easier than any butyl tubes I've ever used.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/218df2dd-6d34-4732-a344-3d04910a67cdn%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve]

Good question Brian.   Evidently some brands do caution that their tubes should not be used with rim brakes.  The marketing info for the WTB Nanoair TPU tubes I'm using does not mention any rim brake related restrictions.  Interestingly, Rene Herse states that TPU actually has a higher melting point than butyl and is perfectly safe for use with rim brakes.  Tubolitos website states they are safe with both carbon and alloy rim brake wheels.

I do recall reading rumors somewhere online about problems with early TPU tubes developing leaks at the junction of the tube and the valve stem (which may or may not have been related to heat build up).  To answer your question - I am trying them on a bike with disc brakes. If I purchase another set they will be for my Platypus with 650b Velocity Quill rims. Much of my riding is on mountain roads, often with long and sometimes steep descents, so I suppose I'll be doing my own field testing at that point.

Steve

https://www.renehersecycles.com/tpu-tubes-are-here/#:~:text=TPU%20stands%20for%20thermoplastic%20polyurethane,are%20safe%20with%20rim%20brakes.

https://www.tubolito.com/faq/

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/tech/gcn-clinic/gcn-tech-clinic-tpu-tubes-rental-bikes-and-matte-bike-maintenance#

[John Dewey]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1014AAB8-C2E7-48E7-97CF-CE675A214C71%40gmail.com.

[John Dewey]

Well, as a flyweight I figured I’m perfect candidate and installed Cyclami TPU…punctured several times right out of the box. We live in the mountains with long descents, and my experience gave me pause. BTW, time between punctures in my world is often measured in years. This riding Open Pro rims with Conti 5000 @ 32mm 60ish psi. 

I reinstalled the light butyl I had been using for peace pf mind. My sense is that, tho at first I thought / imagined snappier ride, after reinstalling butyl I’m thinking it was mostly my lively imagination. 

Just another data point…YMMV as always. 

Jock @ safe better than sorry

On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:25 PM Brian Turner <brok...@gmail.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1014AAB8-C2E7-48E7-97CF-CE675A214C71%40gmail.com.

[John Dewey]

[Patrick Moore]

Rene Herse makes their TPU tubes very slightly thicker -- adding ~3 grams per IIRC -- to ensure resistance to heat from rim brakes. $33 per tube, tho'. 

Me, I'm going to wait until RH come up with a suitable sealant, apparently Orange Seal does not work with them, and be they more flat resistant than butyl, they'll certainly not be goathead-proof.

As for patches, someone recently describe successfully using standard glueless patches on TPU tubes.

While my extralight RH tires (Elk Pass, Naches Pass) ride superbly with ultra-thin butyl (plus Orange Seal regular formula), I'd not pass up even better ride quality with TPUs once the goathead problem is solved.

FWIW, I recently saw an Amazon offer of a pair of 700C TPUs with metal valve stems that, says RH, avoid the frustrating leaks of plastic valves, plus 4 patches for IIRC $25 but I could not find that page just now.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1014AAB8-C2E7-48E7-97CF-CE675A214C71%40gmail.com.

--

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,

I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Ethan K]

I got mine from Aliexpress for a few bucks each, "ridenow" brand. Haven't mounted them yet, but they get great reviews and are available in a few different weights. My understanding is that only the ultra-lightweight versions are disc-only. 

--Eitan in Marina del Rey

[Will Boericke]

My Ridenow experience was one ride long.  Hope others have a better one.  Not-so-slow leaking, and limping home while inflating periodically.  Those wheels are now tubeless.

Will near Boston

[Garth]

Yes, as with Eitan I've only heard of the ultralight versions as disc only. If I was ever going to try them, again with Eitan, AliExpress for the win ! Many of the same brands are sold there. Let you fingers do the walkin".

https://www.aliexpress.us/w/wholesale-tpu-inner-tubes.html

[Steve]

Garth I was just checking out the Aliexpress link you shared - thank you.

Interesting how some of the TPU tubes sold on the site cost as little as 1/10th to 1/30th the price of those offered by WTB, RH, Tubolito, or Scwalbe. I think I may know how they do it.  

I did notice the RideNow tubes were in the high teen to low twenties, which would give me a bit more confidence in them, though Will doesn't sound like he feels much love for them. 

I appreciate the commentary. At some future date I'll post a 500 mile review - sooner if 

I ditch them.

Steve in AVL

[Ted Durant]

I just received a box of tubes that I ordered from Rene Herse, so here's my 1-ride review.

Bike and rider weight is about 70kg/150lbs.

First impression ... they are crazy small and light. Clear plastic tubes with shiny metal valve stems and "Rene Herse blue" caps - nice touch! Unfolding them they seem fragile, especially the valve stem junction.

I ordered some 700x20-32 and 650x45-68. I installed the 700c tubes on my Waterford, which has 32mm Stampede Pass EL tires on DT TK-540 rims with Velox rim tape. The rear tire is fairly new and had a bit over 500km on it. It had been reinstalled a few times (March is a bad time for flats in WI!). The front tire is a year old, probably has 3-4000km on it. Both tires come off the rim and go back on without tire levers. The tubes are a tight fit on the rim and have to be stretched a bit to get around the rim. The tires popped right back on, and I inflated to 60 psi to seat the beads, then backed off to 45psi. On the second wheel the tube/stem interface immediately cracked and I had to grab a 3rd tube. I don't know if that was a bad tube or user error. No tire lever, but it's possible I didn't push the stem up into the tire enough to ensure the tube wasn't trapped by the bead. Given how fragile they feel, it seems it won't take much to cause that to happen.

First subjective observation - I can really feel the weight reduction handling the wheels. Noticeably less inertia around the perimeter.

First ride was 100km of road riding across the north side of Milwaukee (urban riding) through the western suburbs and exurbs to some rural roads around Holy Hill. At 900m of climbing, it's a pretty hilly ride but not crazy. Some of the road surfaces are beautiful, freshly paved goodness. Others are, well, lunar. I often take my Breadwinner out there for its 48mm tires. 

Immediate second subjective observation is that the tires sound different. There's a "whoosh whoosh" that sounds like nice tubulars. Third subjective observation is that the bumps feel and sound different, more "thwip thwhip" than "thump thump". Third subjective observation is that it FEELS like the tires return more energy from deflection, whether from bumps or, especially, when swerving suddenly to avoid an obstacle or making a quick acceleration. I have no idea if there really is less hysteresis loss, but it feels that way.

No flats today, but clear dry roads, even crossing the north side of the city, aren't usually an issue. 

So, I very much like the lightness and the feel of them, and the light blue stem caps are a nice touch that will look good on most of my bikes. I'm concerned about the fragility of the valve stem interface. No data or anecdotes, yet, on durability and ease of repair.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

[Chris Fly]

Hi Ted,

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least the price of the RH versions)..

Thanks,

Chris 

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 6:00:27 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

I'd be curious if you came off butyl or latex tubes prior? guess I'm just not that convinced the TPUs are worth the extra price over latex (at least the price of the RH versions)..

Great question, and one I'd intended to answer in my review, but then forgot. I've ridden all my RH 32mm tires with Schwalbe SV16 tubes (and occasionally another 28-32mm tube that's been pressed into emergency service). I have not used latex tubes in quite a while. I used them on my Riv Road with some skinny tires and had two pinch flats on one group ride. Haven't used them since. Soon I will try TPU on my Breadwinner, which is 650x48B. They'll also go on my Heron (after it's back from the spa) and my Riv Road, both of which also ride on Stampede Pass tires. 

The big advantage of TPU over latex, in theory, is the air retention. I'll know how that's going in a couple of days.

IMO, the question is whether TPUs are worth the substantial price premium over butyl. I've just "invested" a pretty big chunk of money into TPU tubes for 4 bikes.  In terms of ride quality, my first impression is quite positive. TBD on the durability and flat-resistance.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

[lconley]

I received mine from Rene Herse on Saturday, hope to get them mounted today on my Riv Custom - 650B x 48 Switchback Hill tires on Velocity Quill rims.  I currently have the lightweight Schwalbe butyl tubes.  I use Velo Plugs instead of rim tape. 

I like the smooth shiny silver stems. The blue caps will end up on the blue Frank Jones Sr. They were already sold out of the 700C x 44 or I would have put the TPU tubes on it also.  Another swig of the Kool-Aid.....

Laing Conley

Delray Beach FL

[lconley]

FYI - The RH instructions say to inflate slowly and immediately deflate the tubes completely after the tire pops into position, then reinflate.

Laing Conley

Delray Beach FL

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 7:02:25 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

FYI - The RH instructions say to inflate slowly and immediately deflate the tubes completely after the tire pops into position, then reinflate.

Well, I put them on my Riv Road today, was very careful with the installation, and had the same result. One of the tubes broke at the valve stem immediately on inflation in the tire. The rims are narrow Fir, and the tires are a pretty tight fit. I used levers to remove the tire but was able to reinstall without levers. New tires with only a few rides on them.

So, I've needed 6 tubes to get 4 tires going. That makes the economics a little harder to justify. It also makes carrying a new one as a spare a bit of Russian roulette.

[Patrick Moore]

I'm watching TPUs, RH TPUs in particular, for possible use if they find a workable sealant, and this fails to inspire confidence, particularly as RH claims strong metal valves as a competitive advantage. But presumably RH will replace or refund for the defective tubes?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f071a168-8a07-4310-a19e-f92415039d8an%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third will serve as a spare.  They measured 56g each and the butyl tubes I removed weighed 358g combined, so that's over a half-pound of weight reduction.  Mine have the black (longer) valve stem, and the very cute blue valve caps.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Durant]

On Apr 22, 2024, at 12:56 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:

I received three of the Rene Herse 584x45-68mm variant in the mail this morning, and installed two on my custom Falconer without issue.  The third will serve as a spare. 

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that collar attached or flapping around?

[Bill Lindsay]

That little ring on mine is not glued down.  It reminds me of a "Shakespeare collar", properly called a ruff:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruff_(clothing)

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Bill Lindsay]

Photo of the Tube Ruff:

https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53672228005/in/dateposted/

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Durant]

Yeah, I was going to call it that but thought people would consider me weird. ;-)

Ted Durant

Milwaukee, WI USA

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/953e6547-ae8e-4c68-8154-ab18d3316977n%40googlegroups.com.

[Bill Lindsay]

People consider me weird regardless.  ;-)

Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box?  Particularly with respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material has a chance to stretch?  I read that as a "no compressors" warning.  I always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust.  I only use my compressor to seat tubeless tires.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[lconley]

Additional instructions on the RH website.

Laing Conley

[Ted Durant]

> On Apr 22, 2024, at 2:17 PM, Bill Lindsay <tape...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did you pay attention to the instructions on the box? Particularly with respect to their warning that you want to pump it up slowly so the material has a chance to stretch? I read that as a "no compressors" warning. I always use my floor pump anyway, because that's the gauge I trust. I only use my compressor to seat tubeless tires.
>

Silca floor pump. Started leaking on the 3rd or 4th stroke. And they don’t say to pump it up slowly, they say to inflate it 20psi at a time. I was nowhere near 20 psi.

[Ted Durant]

In the site instructions it says 10psi at a time. On the box it says 20.

I was nowhere near 10psi when they failed.

[Bill Lindsay]

"they don’t say to pump it up slowly"

Maybe your box reads differently than mine.  I will quote from the second sentence on Step 6:

"Rapid airflow seats the tire abruptly, overstretching the tube until it can rip"

That is the sentence I paraphrased as "don't pump it up fast, pump it up slowly". 

That's not germane here, because you used a floor pump.  I used a floor pump, too.  Sounds like you've got a pair of bum tubes.  

BL in EC

[Bernard Duhon]

 

 

 

The collar is glued down on Tubolitos

 

 

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Bernard F. Duhon

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Peter Adler]

My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for the valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the often-rough edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, i've been threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few years, to push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee wondering whether the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds like they've obviated the need with the rubber donut.

For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.

Peter Adler

Berkeley, California

[Chris Fly]

seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly, bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and butyl as backup in the bar bag..

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c18cb7c-a469-4b0d-bcf9-a34425f49fe8n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Be the Reason Others Succeed!

[Steve]

About that ruff...   The WTB Nanoair TPU tubes I'm "trialing" also included a little O- ring on the stem. I was a bit stumped for a moment regarding their purpose as there was no mention of them in the included literature. IIRC they were at about the midpoint of the stems (which incidentally are black plastic on the WTBs).  I finally decided exactly what Peter suggests - that they are meant to protect the stem-tube junction from direct contact with the edge of the drilled rim hole.  I installed them at the base of the stem prior to inserting it through the rim.  I did pump them up slowly with the RH tires popping into place on I9 rims at about 40 psi - though the tires had already seen several hundred miles of use on those rims. To my mind, the whole thing was a much simpler process than dealing with measuring and installing liquid sealant. 

Fourflys, I get your' comment regarding weight savings - heck, I'm planning to try TPUs on my full fendered and front racked Platypus which tips the sales around  32 lbs.     However - my experience has always been that reducing the rotational weight of the wheels/tires yields a noticeable  dividend in performance, especially when climbing or accelerating.  It's the same reason that I've long considered a primo wheel set to be a worthwhile upgrade.  

 

Steve in AVL

[Chris Fly]

Steve,

roger on the rotational weight for sure.. I guess where I see TPUs falling down compared to latex tubes is a quality latex tube is around 75-80 grams, compared to 35-45 grams for a TPU.. so not quite double, but we're also not talking double like 100 vs 200 here.. guess I'm just not convinced I'd notice 40 paperclip's worth of weight when spinning up my wheels.. esp when we are talking the larger tires that most Riv riders roll with (or even my 30mm Vittorias on my Anderson).. but, hey, I'd never begrudge someone buying something they wanted.. ;) the other issue, as I understand it, with TPU tubes is once you inflate them, they will always maintain that size they are when they are inflated, meaning they don't shrink back down to the small packed size they were out of the package.. since that is one of the biggest perks I've seen folks tout for TPUs (smaller footprint in the saddlebag), it seems as it that would be negated when you go to put your TPU tube back in your kit for next time? This is what I've read/seen on videos, so I could be wrong since I've never tried them yet.. YMMV :) 

Chris in Sonoma Co

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 4:36 PM Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote: 

Fourflys, I get your' comment regarding weight savings - heck, I'm planning to try TPUs on my full fendered and front racked Platypus which tips the sales around  32 lbs.     However - my experience has always been that reducing the rotational weight of the wheels/tires yields a noticeable  dividend in performance, especially when climbing or accelerating.  It's the same reason that I've long considered a primo wheel set to be a worthwhile upgrade.  

 

Steve in AVL

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 5:23:39 PM UTC-4 four...@gmail.com wrote:

seems like a lot of faff for a tube, esp to save a few grams on, mostly, bike that are not weight weenie builds (I mean we're riding Rivs!!).. I think I'll stick with latex if I want a fast rolling, lightish tube.. and butyl as backup in the bar bag..

On Mon, Apr 22, 2024 at 2:00 PM Peter Adler <divis...@gmail.com> wrote:

My hunch is that the plastic (rubber?) donut is acting as a spacer for the valve stem, so that the tube isn't rubbing directly against the often-rough edge of the valve hole. On the recommendation of otherBOBs, i've been threading a second dork nut onto my valve stems for the last few years, to push the rubber outboard at an unpatchable spot. I'd bee wondering whether the RH valve stems were threaded all the way down; sounds like they've obviated the need with the rubber donut.

For general knowledge, if anyone wanted to produce a similar effect without the extra weight of a dork nut, the little rubber donuts used to keep cables from rubbing against finish look like they'd work.

Peter Adler

Berkeley, California

On Monday, April 22, 2024 at 11:28:06 AM UTC-7 Ted Durant wrote:

Anyone else who has received RH TPU tubes … mine have a little round piece of plastic between the valve stem and the tube, like a cute little collar, that seems to be for reinforcement, but it’s not actually attached to the tube - it’s just floating there. If it was glued to the tube, it probably would have prevented the leak. Anybody else looked at their tubes - is that collar attached or flapping around?

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/6c18cb7c-a469-4b0d-bcf9-a34425f49fe8n%40googlegroups.com.

--

Be the Reason Others Succeed!

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/370d83b2-a3f0-40c6-bd10-4a87d3d07cadn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ted Durant]

Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it ended up being.

I also ordered some 650x48 tubes, but RH sent me 700x48. By the time they responded to my inquiry they were sold out of the 650's. Fortunately the next batch arrived pretty quickly and they promptly sent them to me. I mounted those today and once again needed 3 tubes to get 2 wheels done. These ones felt sturdier than the 700c skinny ones, but maybe it was just the extra width. Installation went fine, but as I inflated it the valve stem got sucked up into the rim. Weird! Deflated, checked for any snagging, and tried again, same result. Repeat, same result. So I decided to remove the tube and see what was going on. The tube came right out of the tire, minus the valve stem which this time stayed firmly put in the rim, fully detached from the tube.

RH still hasn't responded to my inquiry about the two 700c tubes that failed, which I sent back with the mis-shipped tubes. After this one, at 3 out 9 tubes failing, I am well put off by these. I certainly wouldn't carry one as a spare ... I'd have to carry at least three to feel confident that in crappy field conditions and dead tired I'd be able to successfully install one. I also think that doing a patch in the field would be a roll of the dice - no way to be sure you could get the tube out without tearing it. 

I'm very interested to hear the experience of others. Could be user error. But I have over 50 years of wrenching experience, including 2 summers in a bike shop, so if these are beyond my skill level, it's pretty hard to see how these would be useful to anyone but a competitive rider with a budget (or product sponsorship) and highly skilled support.

[Bill Lindsay]

I don't have a whole lot of reporting to do, but according to this thread, I installed two 650B x 48 Rene Herse tubes on my custom Falconer on April 22.  I have not ridden that bike since that time.  Checking that bike right now, after two weeks, the tires are pretty firm.  I'd definitely ride it.  Finger gauge judges they're probably at like 25psi, and I would have pumped 48s up to maybe 30psi at install-time.  So, I'd consider that normal air retention and leagues better than latex, and on-par with butyl.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Harry Travis]

Ted:

I am interested in all parts and the whole  of your report. Assuming you are saving a plausible 8 watts per pair of tires and riding hard or briskly, you would not be riding a lot faster, but you could enjoy the latex-tube feel and the ease you have when pushing hard and having a bit more.

bicycle rolling resistance tested 4 or 5 them, including unmarked rebadges.

Cost aside and despite what seems, post Covid experience,  an explosion in the market for tpu gloves, it is no surprise to me that the QC has not developed for the tube -stem interface with the new material. It is a trailing edge niche market, what with lower pressures permitting greater adoption of tubeless. 

 I doubt the number of engineers have been at work on the problem as have developed reliable attachment of tube and stem over more than a century and in hundreds of factories.

On the attractiveness of the compact size for backup / spare. Yes, we've been there before with CO2 cartridges. How many are enough, three? Haha. And a back-up for the inflator? How burdensome, instead, is a mini-pump?

--

Harry P Travis

17.4.1

On May 7, 2024, at 4:02 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Update on my experience. I continue to like the ones that successfully inflated on my 700x32 tires. Yesterday I took out that bike for the first time in a couple of weeks and the tires were quite soft. So, the tubes don't retain air as well as butyl, but it's not worse enough to be a problem. And I did a pretty hard ride and was pleased with how fast it ended up being.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/06c6994e-cde8-473d-9a17-0d4db2e87504n%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve]

Ted,  in an attempt yo educate myself in installation of these tubes, may I ask did your RH tubes come packaged with an 'O' ring on the stem?  If so, did you install it inside or outside of the rim?  

Thanks,  Steve

[Ted Durant]

On May 7, 2024, at 9:49 PM, Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ted,  in an attempt yo educate myself in installation of these tubes, may I ask did your RH tubes come packaged with an 'O' ring on the stem?  If so, did you install it inside or outside of the rim?  

O-ring is on the stem, right at the junction with the tube. I left it there.

[Steve]

Thanks for your reply Ted. The WTB tpu tubes I recently mounted up came packaged with 'O' rings at about the midpoint of the stems. I wasn't quite sure of their purpose - finally decided they were to protect the stem-tube junction from contacting the edge of the rim hole and installed them the same way you did. 

Your experience with RH tubes makes me a bit wary of trying them. If and when I finally get around to purchasing tpu tubes for my Platypus with Velocity Quill rime I'll probably stick with the WTBs. So far I've been pleased with them on my Ritchey (I9 AR25 rims). I've only logged about 50 miles on them so far, but it's all been on graveled forest roads and a few miles of single track. I've been inflating the 700c x 48mm RH knobbies to 25psi. 

[Ted Durant]

Update here. I went for a couple of rides, total of 100km, on my new 584x48's. They certainly feel nice, and at that volume you really are dropping noticeable weight from each wheel. By the end of the second ride I was thinking the rear felt a little too cushy. A pinch test said there was still plenty of pressure. The next morning, though, the tire was completely flat. I removed the tube (quite easily, no issues), inflated it a bit, and it seemed to be holding air just fine. I thought that for sure I'd be able to see a hole in the clear tubing. I swept the inside of the tire and found nothing. So, mounted it back up (easy, no issues), inflated it carefully, and set the bike aside. A few hours later I checked and it had lost a lot of pressure. So, took it out again (easy, no issues), inflated it and started running it through a sink full of water. I finally found a very tiny leak. Checking the tire in that location I found a tiny bit of wire in the outer tread of the tire but couldn't feel it on the inside. Removed the wire, marked the leak location on the tube, wiped with alcohol (removing my mark in the process, of course), and after it dried put on a Park glueless (I like that my Mac autocorrected that to clueless) patch, praying I put it in the right location. I put on the patch with air in the tire, figuring it's best not to stretch the patch area too much. Installed again (easy, no issues), inflated, and set the bike aside. We'll see if the patch is successful. Even if it is, though, I think the "TPU tubes are less prone to flats" argument seems to be debunked. Which is too bad. I really want to like these, but the rationale is dwindling in my experience. 

[Patrick Moore]

Ted: thanks for being an early guinea pig for TPUs, RH TPUs in particular. Your travails have probably saved others much $$ and grief.

I'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of the extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the land of goat heads; this for road tires; I use tubeless for fat, very lp off road tires) but until RH or someone else markets a sealant proven over time to protect TPUs from thorns and other small penetrants, I'll hold off to wait and see.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d6e7b933-ab38-4117-8713-106cc4e4b04en%40googlegroups.com.

[Ted Durant]

>
> On May 11, 2024, at 3:23 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 'd love to use featherlight, more puncture-resistant TPUs in place of the extralight butyls I now use (with sealant, of course, since this is the land of goat heads; this for road tires;

I’d like to hear more about your experience using sealant in butyl tubes. I tried that briefly. It seemed to make the tubes use-once-and-throw-away, as once it deflated the sealant stuck together so much that the tube wouldn’t inflate again.

[Patrick Moore]

I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks, Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles. Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of years, Orange Seal worked even better.

I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100 gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X 20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and (IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto. 

OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.

OS Regular Formula! OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, does not work for me in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.

The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2 spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer -- dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture with a Rema once back home. 

You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue, and patch as usual.

Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due, I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3EA1476C-A0E1-4A70-92FA-BBDB40A9574F%40gmail.com.

[Chris Fly]

Patrick,

How is it to take a tube with sealant out of the tire after the sealant has fixed a hole? Do they stick to each other?

Chris 

Make a space for people to come as they are and not have to just “fit in”

On May 11, 2024, at 2:11 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



I've used sealant in inner tubes since about 2013, when after years of using ~utility tires (Paselas, Kojaks, Fatboys, City Slickers, Tom Slicks, Avocets) and fixing >150 flats per year I tried a pair of new "open tubular" Paris Roubaix and got 5 goathead flats within 10 or 15 miles. Stan's worked in my 700C X 28 standard road tubes and, after a couple of years, Orange Seal worked even better.

I use Orange Seal in the lightest-weight butyls I can find; notable 100 gram actual 650B/559 X 1.8 Schwalbes and 70 gram actual Schwalbe 650C X 20/559X1", as well as Conti 650C/559 ditto, Specialized 26X1" ditto,  and (IIRC) lightweight Vittoria ditto. 

OS in tubes at 30 to 60 psi works I'd guess a metaphorical 905 or 95% as well as OS in fat tubeless low pressure tires.

OS Regular Formula! OS Endurance, wonderful in fat lp tubeless tires, does not work for me in road tubes at 30 to 60 psi.

The penetrants I face are almost always goatheads. I get the very occasional (<1X/year for 2-3K miles across 3 bikes) larger hole that OS Regular won't seal, but even those are 9 times out of 10 slow leaks and let me get home before the tire goes flat (short rides, =/<30 miles). I carry 2 spare tubes, either containing 2 fl oz of OS Regular or -- now prefer -- dry + 4 fl oz bottle of OS Regular, and on the very rare occasions I have to stop mid ride for a puncture I change the tube and repair the puncture with a Rema once back home. 

You can patch tubes with sealant as long as you clean all sealant off the area to be patched (I use alcohol just to be sure), then rough it, glue, and patch as usual.

Stan's used to leave rubber octopuses of dried sealant in tubes after 12 or 18 months; OS regular does not do that; I only add more -- 1X year or less often -- when my tubes start deflating and not sealing immediately -- due, I think, to many small punctures over 12-18 months that leak very small amounts of sealant into the tire carcase, so that eventually there is no longer enough left in the tube to do its job. This compares to replacing OS Endurance every 3 or 4 months in lp tubeless tires in our dry climate; in very dry hot weather ~3 months, in colder, more humid weather, ~4 months.

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, often after 6 months or a year or more of riding, after the sealant has plugged, I guess very many wee little thorn holes, enough sealant will have wept into the tire carcase and dried to glue the tube to the inside of the tire.

I use very thin butyl tubes. Even so, I've never, ever had a problem or even a worry about just yanking hard to peel the tube off the tire; and again, when it sticks firmly this is generally after >12 months at least.

The real and big problem is a big hole that dumps most of 2 to 4 fl oz (depending if 1" or 1/8" tube) all at once into the inside of the tire; then you don't usually have a sticking problem but you've got a bloody mess. I carry an old bandana in each tool kit to wipe up such messes, though 99/100 times I use them instead to wipe my hands after messing with the chain.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/D794AC5B-DB50-4195-937B-DA88E63D15F4%40gmail.com.

--

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[John Dewey]

Only one data point for sure…but I’ve had terrible ‘luck’ with TPU. And my last puncture occurred JRA on smooth pave and the startling thing was how fast the tire deflated—instantaneously. Boom gone 💥

That’s it for me, for now anyway. Perhaps the tech will evolve and then I’ll try again. I’d certainly love to ride that supple with complete confidence. 

Jock

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d6e7b933-ab38-4117-8713-106cc4e4b04en%40googlegroups.com.

[Chris Fly]

Well, between this thread and some others on other forums I've read, I see no reason to stray away from my latex tubes in my Serotta or my butyl tubes in my other bikes.. and, honestly, I can't see TPU riding any better than latex.. and I don't mind pumping my tires, gives me a reason to use that Silca pump I got for Christmas.. ;^) 

Maybe I'll try the sealant in tube thing at some point if I start needing to.. 

Chris 

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 7:58 AM John Dewey <john...@gmail.com> wrote:

Only one data point for sure…but I’ve had terrible ‘luck’ with TPU. And my last puncture occurred JRA on smooth pave and the startling thing was how fast the tire deflated—instantaneously. Boom gone 💥

That’s it for me, for now anyway. Perhaps the tech will evolve and then I’ll try again. I’d certainly love to ride that supple with complete confidence. 

Jock

.

[Ted Durant]

Further update. The patch on my 584x48 has held nicely, though I haven't ridden it yet. Meanwhile, the rear tire on my ST-22 (622x32) turned up flat yesterday. I took the opportunity to take out my Riv Road (622x32) and enjoyed a very fast (for me) ride. This evening I pulled the tube from the ST-22 and found a tiny hole. Exactly like the 584x48, I found a tiny bit of wire in the outer tread but not apparently poking through the inner casing. I patched and replaced the tube without incident. Alcohol wipe and Park glueless (MacOS still wants that to be clueless) patch, applied with the tube inflated.

The fact that I've easily removed, patched, and reinstalled a couple of tubes strengthens my belief that the tubes that failed on installation were probably defective. It also gives me a bit more confidence in the tubes (and my ability to repair in the field) going forward. They sure feel good when riding.

No word from RH on whether they're going to refund/replace the tubes I returned to them.

[Ted Durant]

Another update. Found my Riv Road (622x32) had an almost flat front tire this afternoon. Pulled the tube and found no holes but a very slow leak from the valve stem. Using my fingers to grip the stem, I was able to back off the core then re-tighten it. The leak was worse. So, I gripped the valve with pliers and again re-tightened the core. As I worried would happen, when I went to reinflate the tube to check for a leak, the tube had broken at the base of the stem. That tire is now inflated by old reliable Schwalbe no 16. Out of the six tubes I bought in that size, I'm down to three usable. I like having removable/replaceable cores, but they're kind of silly on tubes that have such a fragile connection to the valve.

The repair I made yesterday (Waterford ST-22, 622x32, rear wheel) didn't work. I pulled the tube again and checked for leaks in water, which I should have done yesterday. I'm not sure whether what I thought was a hole actually was, but I found a tiny hole in the same place relative to the valve stem, the other way around. The hole was so tiny that it was not at all visible - only could find it from the bubbles that came out of it under water. So, that one is patched and reinstalled. 

I've used Schwalbe superlight tubes on my Breadwinner (584x48) and had mostly good luck with them, though I did get a flat on that bike's maiden voyage. That was a special treat because it was my first experience with rims designed for going tubeless and I didn't know how hard it would be to get the beads off the shelves (and back on again). I'm going to experiment with superlight tubes on my Riv Road, where I think I'll benefit from them. Not sure I'll use them elsewhere.  

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh; sorry for the bad experiences and, again -- don't hate me for this -- thanks for being the bad-news guinea pig.

Let us know if you ever rustle up Rene Herse customer service for refunds or replacements.

I use Schwalbe extra light butyls with Orange Seal regular formula in road tires (30 to 60 psi, 559 X 42 and 559 X 28, slightly lower psi in front than rear) and I am very happy to report that this works well. I guess I'll continue to be happy with this arrangement for a while longer.

Everybody: If you experiment with TPUs, please keep the list informed. Thanks.

Patrick Moore, who would love to swap 70 gram / 100 gram butyls for 35 gram, faster-rolling TPUs with compatible sealant proven against goatheads, in ABQ, NM.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8b2910ea-336f-4c48-a8a6-5ac7abdbfa18n%40googlegroups.com.

[Harry Travis]

A pic to remind of best reason - WL mentioned it early- why these have even oldez wanna spend. 

these are all tube for nominal 25mm tires.   including one 80g latex tube  and three butyl tubes for nominal and indeed small 25mm tires. 

Lightest TPU tubes weighed 20-25g. 

--

Harry P Travis

17.4.1

On May 14, 2024, at 4:28 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgs7cD3ZjtLgf91V7%3DSs2iUHHHMVNRDpMSXHXR93mnujrg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Chris Fly]

light weight and a small footprint is all well and good until you are on the side of the road, tired and blow through your tubes trying to get your tire seated back on the rim.. these seem way too fragile for me to worry about the weight difference.. and I'm sorry, but I just can't see the difference between a good latex and a TPU making that much difference when riding.. I get the numbers will say the TPU spins up xx% faster from a stop, etc. but I don't buy that it will make much of a real world difference.. and, as I said prior, I don't even use a latex tube as a spare based on how you can bung those up as well on the side of the road.. 

ride what you want to ride for sure, but don't try and sell me on the advantages of saving 50g (100g for a set) when the total system weight for me is around 235 lbs.. especially if it sacrifices reliability, which it seems to do in this case.. 

Chris 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/89F1F1CB-5AFE-4FE0-AAA7-E64060575DCD%40gmail.com.

[Harry Travis]

When I wrote that the sizes and weights explained the appeal to "oldez", I was referring to riders like myself trained by the bicycle press from adolescence to stop and look -- and even spend, again -- to save some grams. 

Chis Fly might also have been thinking of the experience of riders saving less weight than was the promise of "CO2 cartridges will replace pumps", what with the backup cartridges in case of failure to dispense correctly or the  insufficiency of just one, or two.

The expected maximum benefit for all the risks of disappointment in TPU tubes is estimated in tests with measurement repeatability of  +- 0.3 watts, on the order of 2 watts per tire @50psi compared to a thin butyl tube.  Expected benefit compared to the lightweight butyl tube may be no more than 1 watt per tire , about the energy loss of a tube rubbing inside your tire. (Latex tubes are grippy.)

(I apologize that the rightmost original column with average energy losses in 3 fast 25mm tires @ 60psi would not fit in a screen shot. The lower the pressure, the greater the expression of between-tube differences.)

- --

Harry P Travis

Portland, OR USA 

17.4.1

On May 14, 2024, at 6:03 PM, Chris Fly <four...@gmail.com> wrote:



light weight and a small footprint is all well and good until you are on the side of the road, tired and blow through your tubes trying to get your tire seated back on the rim.. these seem way too fragile for me to worry about the weight difference.. and I'm sorry, but I just can't see the difference between a good latex and a TPU making that much difference when riding.. I get the numbers will say the TPU spins up xx% faster from a stop, etc. but I don't buy that it will make much of a real world difference.. and, as I said prior, I don't even use a latex tube as a spare based on how you can bung those up as well on the side of the road.. 

ride what you want to ride for sure, but don't try and sell me on the advantages of saving 50g (100g for a set) when the total system weight for me is around 235 lbs.. especially if it sacrifices reliability, which it seems to do in this case.. 

Chris 

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 5:43 PM Harry Travis <travis...@gmail.com> wrote:

A pic to remind of best reason - WL mentioned it early- why these have even oldez wanna spend. 

these are all tube for nominal 25mm tires.   including one 80g latex tube  and three butyl tubes for nominal and indeed small 25mm tires. 

Lightest TPU tubes weighed 20-25g. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJ15Mh%3DiqCDLF_6cJFmxnWMLym3reQzws4sdXgvO7gR_H%3D4wbw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bernard Duhon]

I had a series 3 flats in a short time with Tubolito.  I almost never flat.

Company replaced 2 promptly 

I can’t blame the tube for 1 of those flats as I picked  up a rock puncture.

Also experienced valve leak that was fixed with Loctite.

 

Bought a patch kit to fix 2 tubes neither patches held.

 

$100.00 worth of tubes in the trash.

 

I am staying with latex for “unloaded” riding & butyl for loaded touring/groceries etc. .

 

Bernard

 

 

From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2024 3:09 AM
To: RBW Owners Bunch <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] TPU inner tubes - Anyone using them?

 

T

On Wednesday, May 15, 2024 at 1:08:28 AM UTC-4 travis...@gmail.com wrote:

When I wrote that the sizes and weights explained the appeal to "oldez", I was referring to riders like myself trained by the bicycle press from adolescence to stop and look -- and even spend, again -- to save some grams. 

 

Chis Fly might also have been thinking of the experience of riders saving less weight than was the promise of "CO2 cartridges will replace pumps", what with the backup cartridges in case of failure to dispense correctly or the  insufficiency of just one, or two.

 

The expected maximum benefit for all the risks of disappointment in TPU tubes is estimated in tests with measurement repeatability of  +- 0.3 watts, on the order of 2 watts per tire @50psi compared to a thin butyl tube.  Expected benefit compared to the lightweight butyl tube may be no more than 1 watt per tire , about the energy loss of a tube rubbing inside your tire. (Latex tubes are grippy.)

 

(I apologize that the rightmost original column with average energy losses in 3 fast 25mm tires @ 60psi would not fit in a screen shot. The lower the pressure, the greater the expression of between-tube differences.)

 

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/35db6f1a-900b-470c-9f2d-a422ea177f0fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.

Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?

[Harry Travis]

It had never occurred to me that in a pinch - pun- I might ever try to stuff part of a longer tube back into itself, while barely inflated,   in order to shorten it before inflating it within a tire.

--

Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.4.1

On May 15, 2024, at 10:02 AM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



I'd like to try latex tubes (hell, I'd like to try TPUs if they had a better reputation) but latex tubes aren't made in 559" wheel sizes.

Has anyone tried and had success with installing appropriately wide latex tubes in smaller diameter wheels by folding the tube to fit? Results?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt0FbuKPQP1Go-qDg6yz0UyjFC%3DiksCFtR%2ByaVfkR9XRw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ted Durant]

Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.

[Harry Travis]

Then there is this froth from the sometime racer who tried several TPU tubes for Cuvling Weekly 

"I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "

Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube compared to a 30z

--

Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.4.1

On May 16, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Ted Durant <tedd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Final update from me. Rene Herse has been very good about it and is refunding me for the tubes that had the valve stem attachments fail.

Ted Durant

Milwaukee WI USA

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d54350f6-7d0a-41f2-a7cd-fe34288afaedn%40googlegroups.com.

[Ryan]

that's reassuring to hear....

[Steve]

Regarding the ability of "thicker TPU tubes" to transform a "high end tire" into "garden hoses"  -- do I detect a note of hyperbole? 

[Bill Lindsay]

While it is true that latex inner tubes are not made in 559-inch wheel sizes, they are absolutely made in 559mm BSD wheel sizes.  Maybe not quite as skinny as the tires Patrick Moore runs, but Vittoria makes one that is labeled 1.70" - 2.30". Michelin Air-Comp are out there with a box labeled 1.6 - 2.1". 

Latex inner tubes are made in 559mm BSD wheel sizes.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Ted Durant]

On May 16, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Harry Travis <travis...@gmail.com> wrote:

"I was much less impressed by the ride quality of the thicker TPU tubes. Though they still weigh less than butyl tubes, they don’t have the same buoyant feeling of the lighter weight models. They changed the feel of the bike completely; it felt like I was riding on cheap tires—or garden hoses—instead of the high end tires I was testing. "

Note that the heaviest tube he rode on weighed 110g and is for a 35-40mm tire. But then he discerned inferior ride quality, too, from a 65g tube compared to a 30z

I also have some Foss tubes that I have used in 584-42 and 584-48 Rene Herse ultralight tires, and I have used Scwhalbe #13 (standard) and #14A (extra light) tubes in those same tires. None of them make the tires feel like garden hoses, IMO. I never had to patch a Foss tube, but I haven’t put huge miles on them. I had what I think is more than a normal amount flats with the extra light butyl tubes, but I wouldn’t say that’s a certainty because wet roads and old tires are the primary risk factors and I can’t say I’ve controlled for that.

I would rank order the tubes as you’d expect for “ride feel” -

RH TPU

Schwalbe extra light

Foss

Schwalbe standard

I don’t think there’s much difference in feel between Foss and Schwalbe standard tubes, and the difference between RH TPU and Schwalbe extra light is pretty small.

All just one man’s opinion.

[Patrick Moore]

Good to have an opinion of Schwalbe 14A butyls versus at least 1 brand of TPU tubes; perhaps I'm well enough off with the Schwalbe butyl extralights which, besides, do very well amongst goatheads with OS regular forumla.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8A4F9F29-3BA2-4A8F-BD5F-04A16E2486F9%40gmail.com.

[Harry Travis]

On hyperbole of tires "transformed to garden hoses" - for ride quality - by using thicker TPU tubes: 

Worse than that, bullshit / BS, with the writer indifferent to the truth value.

Or a parody of the kind that Bike Snob New York fed on..

Too bad that it undercuts the serious value of that review: his own numerous reports of plastic valve failures. Not to mention punctures (which may have been a coincidence)

Here are weights of lighter/road versions of tubes, followed by evaluation of ride quality. 

46g

• Ride quality not as good as lightest tubes

36g

• Ride quality not on par with thinnest designs

26g

• Ride quality is very good

44g

• A little bit heavier tube meant ride quality was not as good as thinner competitors

25g

• Ride quality of road tube is very good

30g

• Ride quality is excellent

So, this evaluator had such exquisite sensitivity that 6-16g grams per tire was discernible. 

--

Harry P Travis

Portland Oregon USA 

17.4.1

On May 17, 2024, at 5:42 AM, Steve <steve...@gmail.com> wrote:

Regarding the ability of "thicker TPU tubes" to transform a "high end tire" into "garden hoses"  -- do I detect a note of hyperbole? 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f03be568-f7ab-467c-a761-c4b00103ba37n%40googlegroups.com.

[Harry Travis]

Patrick, 

I don't expect to see tomato skins advertised as a cut-resistant layer and shield in bike tires because we know that short of getting out the serrated knife, the way to get into a tomato with a not-sharp edge is to puncture it easily with the knife tip ...or a goat head.

Anyway, it is entirely possible that TPU of sufficient thickness is more thorn resistant than butyl rubber or latex. Just as we would expect of woven metal fabric. This is materials science stuff.

--

Harry P Travis

17.4.1

On May 17, 2024, at 2:22 PM, Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:



You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/Y5KV2I6s9fo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvG1Oi3AYamrPkchy_%2Brs8%2B283febT-NpRLx6bQTpqbkA%40mail.gmail.com.