Considering trading my Ram for a Lightning Bolt

[Max Faingezicht]

Recently I’ve been getting low trail curious or more specifically I’ve become very interested in the Lightning Bolt canti frame from Crust


I’ve read some reviews in the 650b and Bob groups, also read Jan’s review in BQ (thanks Eric!) and after speaking with a friend at the LBS who owns one I think it’s a worthy option. He said it’s the most fun bike he’s ever ridden and he’s got some nice rides to compare.

Sadly the deal at home is that one has to go out (Ram or Gallop) to make room for a new bike. Anyone here has experience with both the LB and the Ram which would be the one to go?

How would it compare with my orange Ram (the lightest of my builds with no racks and 33.33 tires)? I have a 60 Ram and would buy a large LB although I could straddle an XL for a more French fit.

Im interested in hearing your impressions other than trail which I don’t want to get into a discussion about. What do you love/hate about the LB? Or about the Ram? I should also mention that I have quite a few options on the more burly side of things in my quiver: hunqa, bomba and more in the middle a wilbury. This is not a bike that I plan to use for carrying weight or to go single track riding. It’s mostly a road / pavement bike with the occasional gravel. I would use 42’s RH on it.

The other alternative I could try is getting RH extra lights to replace my jack browns on the Ram to give it another shot and see if I can get a more spirited feel. So far, it’s been a great bike but even though I love it: feel, color, weight, setup… I don’t think it’s far enough from my Gallop or even my Wilbury to make it the go-fast, no racks bike for me.

Thanks for your thoughts

Max

[Patrick Moore]

I caution selling a proven nice Ram to buy a speculative nice LB. The Ram is a very nice handling sport-tourer (I use the term lightly, but from my experience with a 2nd gen blue Ram it rode very nicely unladen and, with stiff racks, handled modestly heavy loads with sufficient aplomb for a bike that is principally meant as a road bike. The Ram, or at least my Ram, exhibits that signature Grant handling quality: unerring straight line stability with "intuitive" turn-in; not twitchy, not sluggish.

But yah pays yer money and yah makes yer choice.

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[Stephen]

Hey Max,

I currently have a Ram, and used to have a SS Breakaway lighting bolt. Ram in ~62 or 63, LB in xl. I really liked both, but let the LB go because I was just trying to thin things out. Its not a perfect comparison tubeset wise, because they used beefier stuff on the breakaway versions, but i think the geometry is supposed to be the same, I rode it with 650b x 42 tires w fenders, fairweather 'for cruise'. The handling on the LB is definitely 'quicker' than the ram, or other rivs. It was most noticeable when I had been riding riv geometry for a bit and then switched back, but when I road the LB exclusively I quickly got used to it. As I write this I'm thinking about how much I liked the bike and miss it a little bit. It was light (ish), and springy (though that may have been tires).  650 b felt quick. to accelerate. I had some difficulty achieving my preferred handlebar height since I cut the steerer too low and the level top tube. Wish I had set it up with drop bars while I had it, but was in a little bit of an anti drop phase. I'm starting to ramble.

Both bikes are awesome, but the rambouillet might be one of my all time favorites right now. Maybe I just wasn't a singlespeed guy. It is really nice to have a bike that handles differently than riv's in my opinion, fun to ride different things. If I were you I'd try to be patient and see if I could find someone to let me try theirs out, or try to land a used deal on crust classifieds. 

best,

stephen

[Josiah Anderson]

I don't think of the Lightning Bolt as a no-load bike and would not recommend it as such. I occasionally ride mine that way, but it's not ideal because it gets really light in the front end. Where it shines is carrying a front load while still handling like a race bike. If you want that, I really like my Lightning Bolt and would recommend one, and I think it rides as well and is at least very close to as fast as the best race bikes. But if what you want aesthetically is a stripped down go-fast bike, a Lightning Bolt is not the bike for the job IMO. A Malocchio might be better, or a Nordavinden for the low trail if you can find one. I've never ridden a Rambouillet, but I've ridden a whole lot of 70s and 80s road bikes and sport tourers, which are supposedly what the Ram was based on.

Josiah Anderson 

Missoula, MT 

(And no, my frame is not bent, it's just weird distortion haha).

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned a Ram and Romulus (basically the same frame) and both rode great unloaded. I briefly had a Lightning Bolt Disc which I greatly regret selling, I agree that it's kinda bizarre without a load on the front. Very twitchy, it didn't feel safe to me. 

Joe Bernard 

[Max Faingezicht]

Thanks to everyone who chimed in and for the couple of people that sent me private messages. I really appreciate your thoughts and experience.

You’ve convinced me to give a 650b conversion a try. Since I plan to ride mostly without much of a load the Ram might actually be the better option to begin with. 

Perhaps my high-ish pressure 33.3 jack browns need to be swapped for wider, lower pressure and more supple 650b’s to get to Ram nirvana - I think it’s worth a shot. I’ll borrow the light 650b with extra light bon jon pass tires from my Wilbury and report back.

Now let me be lazy as this has probably already been discussed a million times in older threads: should I use a set of Paul Racers or the Racers medium for the conversion? Or is something else recommended? (I already have Paul’s there). Any other tips or things to watch out for before I end up with two half built frames?

Btw, I do love the bike, the orange paint and the lugs, but as always perhaps I was chasing imaginary greener pastures that won’t come from new frames but from appreciating and riding the amazing bikes I already own.

Thanks again

Max

PS. I’m still low trail / planing curious and want to test ride an LB at some point

On Oct 17, 2023, at 1:50 AM, Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've owned a Ram and Romulus (basically the same frame) and both rode great unloaded. I briefly had a Lightning Bolt Disc which I greatly regret selling, I agree that it's kinda bizarre without a load on the front. Very twitchy, it didn't feel safe to me. 

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[John Dewey]

Well, I totally agree with Patrick.

Jock

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[Stephen]

You would probably need Paul Racers, or some other long reach caliper like the tektro r559 (which is on major sale at velo orange right now i think). The medium racers would theoretically fit 700c rims on the ram.

Sounds like a good plan Max. I feel like I tend to get caught up 'chasing the dragon', always wanting, unrelenting bike desire. Switching things up on the current bike tends to scratch the itch for me, at least for a little while.

cheers,

Stephen

[Joe Bernard]

My understanding of this stuff is the r559 works for 650b conversions that started with short-reach calipers. Ram came with medium-reach and need a reeeeally long arm to reach 650b rims. I don't think r559 or Medium Racer will do it, the long Racers might. 

Joe Bernard 

[Garth]

There have been riders known to have a separate low trail fork made for their Rivendell. One from the likes of Jack of Franklin Frames namesake could be an option as he doesn't charge silly prices for such things. I'd keep it 700c myself as I don't see a wider tire on a road bike adding anything but more weight and air resistance. In full disclosure I never bought into the sales promotions for either 650b or wider tires than necessary for a given surface. 

[ascpgh]

I love my Rambouillet as 700x32 (under Honjos). I have ridden it a bit outside intended design parameters since new.

The Racer brakes really made the tires and fenders come together as useable. They clear the fenders better for the most space for tire and fender without closing in on things as they clamp down. The original Shimanos did and the fenders would rattle on them under braking.

Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

It might be worth trying alternative 700c tires in the Ram’s current state first, especially if you can find second hand extra lights to compare before switching out brakes, etc.  Not to discourage your conversion (I would never discourage bike experimentation!) but just thinking that’s a simpler initial change or first step before doing a full conversion with more component changes.

I was similarly low trail curious and opportunistically picked up a Crust LB disc fork for my single speed road bike when Crust HQ was briefly local to me in NJ and very close to my workplace.  This is the v1 disc 1-1/8 threadless thru axle version.  I ended up just keeping this bike 700x33 after finding an affordable 700c 12mm thru axle disc wheel to use with existing tires.  I noticed less difference in handling between forks than I did in eliminating toe overlap and the difference in brake feel.  Obviously, handling preferences are highly subjective and beyond the scope of your query so no further comment on that.  But I will say that the overlap and a desire for front loading is mostly what made me want to try a longer offset fork to begin with, as I found the existing toe overlap rather annoying when doing low speed maneuvers on our shared and occasionally busy multiuse trails while riding as fixed gear.  I also wanted to be able to use this more as a utility bike as opposed to just a stripped down fun bike.  Sadly, this one is now sidelined with an injury with repairs still undetermined.

I enjoyed riding this bike fixed in the colder months so going with the disc fork and brakeless in the rear offered other benefits with mud/snow/debris clearance and less parts to accumulate grime.  I considered grabbing a Soma Champs Elysees road fork during be if Soma’s frequent sales.  This would have worked with my existing rim brakes and QR & bolt on wheels but I didn’t really want shiny chrome and the Crust fork offered a variety of front rack mount options.

Soma does offer 1” threadless low trail conversion forks, if you actually wanted to test low trail on the Ram without going full custom.  I think they were sold out in the 1” options last I recall but maybe they will restock soon?

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[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Grrr - darn auto correct and typos - should have read  "I considered grabbing a Soma Champs Elysees road fork during ONE OF Soma’s frequent sales."

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[Patrick Moore]

One more remark, FWIW, and not to discourage you from a 650B conversion: The Ram handled very nicely with 700C 32 mm tires; expect a slight reduction in diameter and an increase in width and a decrease in pressure to have effects on handling. Trail and flop #s might also change a bit depending on the width of the new tires.

The Bon Jon Passes might be the best option.

Question to all: Can a Ram, at least the second gen blue Rams, take 38s? Mine took 31s with fenders, just, so it might take 38s; but my Riv custom with single pivot takes 39s, crowding at chainstays -- ~2 mm clearance per side with 39 mm actual tire -- rather than under brake or crown.

Again, FWIW.

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[John Dewey]

Well, Patrick, I just took a closer look at mine and I think it just might. Of course, a lot depends on the rim. I have Open Pro on mine, with 32mm Conti 5000s and 45mm SKS mudguards / fenders. Not lots of room to spare, mind you, but the fit is just about perfect. So take off the fenders and install 38mm tires I think might be a good swap.

Jock

[John Dewey]

PS: Supple Vitesse @ 33mm also fit quite well. Just enough wiggle room to make me comfortable.

[Garth]

Coal Bee Rye Anne,  I was going to mention the Soma low trail fork too, but then I checked the stock and it's still not in stock and hasn't been for at least the 8-9 months I have been checking. The disc version is in stock however, so I doubt it has anything to do with supply issues for the threaded versions. It seems there are some items or sizes of items they no longer stock but aren't deleted from the system for whatever reason. I found this out by emailing them as the availability of an item.

[Garth]

Max, While I initially thought trying out different forks or tires may satisfy, I think it's entirely possible your just "branded out" on the Rivendell design and the so-called "handling" characteristics, whatever the heck that means if anything. You know, like too many chocolate bars from the same factory !

So I'd be inclined to say yeah, try a whole new take on "the bicycle" from someone else, and in doing so you just might find you see and experience the Riv's you have in a different way, or be inspired to change something about how they're fitted. I wouldn't necessarily sell the Ram unless/until you were sure you like whatever frame you got. Even then, after trying something else, it may spark something creative to do with Ram. Maybe the bars, maybe your positioning, who's to say at this point. I know I'm set to put some  low positioned Zipp XPLR drop bars on my Bombadil with a narrow road saddle. Since going back to low drop bars on my Franklin custom, getting a nice narrow road saddle and moving it very far forward from where it had been, when I hop on the Bomba it feels awkward and unrideable the way it's setup currently. How you're positioned on a bike can have quite an effect on how it feels and handles.

I can't say the Crust frame you mentioned in good choice for you or not as I know nothing of them. Also, it's been mentioned here how low trail bikes like a front load of some kind, I assume you knew this and are okay with it ?  Also, you needn't get a low trail bike for a completely different handing/ride/fun experience. The difference between my Bomba and Franklin are so totally different, and the Franklin is very much in the "neutral" handling category with a much higher BB, which is my preference. Yes, I feel a little more "atop" of the frame and I like it that way, it's like sitting atop a fine race horse, hell yeah, giddy up and go horsey !  In that vein, in a relative whim after working out the specs I bought a VO Rando frame during it's presale. I can't speak to how it rides as it's still in the box, but I look forward to hopping on that race horse too :)  Point being, there's lots of chocolate bar factories to choose from !

[Garth]

Hey Max, does this fit you ? I just saw it on Bike Recyclery for $599. https://bikerecyclery.com/58cm-l-rawland-nordavinden-frameset-navy-chris-king-nothreadset-700c-barely-ridden-near-mint/

[maxcr]

Thanks again for the latest comments. I realized I had a mistake on the 650b tires I have to try out, they are Loup Loup Pass not Bon Jon Pass tires.

Coal Bee Rye Anne, new tires for the Ram is an easy first step and probably the way to go. I hadn't considered my 180 cranks might be a problem if I go with a 650b wheel conversion and I really don't want to swap out the cranks. I had found a couple of used Bon Jon Pass but in standard casing for $100 and I'm wondering if it's worth trying those or should I splurge for new ones with the extra light casing to make the difference/contrast a bit more stark?

Patrick from an old thread FullyLugged said: "The Ram came as a complete with 32mm Panaracer Pasela tires.  It will also fit fenders with this tire.  Without fenders, the Pasela 1 1/2" fits easily. This applies to both the 622 and 559 rim editions, EXCEPT for the early orange batch that came in with the rear brake bridge in too low.  The 622 converts nicely to 584 with bigger tires and the 559 can also run 571 wheels with smaller max tire sizes."

I think my orange one has the rear brake bridge limitation though. 

Garth, thanks for your comments and I think you might be spot on. Maybe I need to try something "radically" different only to find out that what I had is what I always wanted, or perhaps that a completely different flavor is fun to change things up. Oh and I am aware of the front load "requirement" of low trail bikes and was planning to run either a BagsxBird front bag with a Shovel Research Rod Steward or a Nitto front rack with a basket on it. As for trying a different fork on the Ram, I don't think I want to go in that direction - thanks for the thought though. Also, thanks for sending over the Nordavinden. Hard to tell with fit, I'm no pro and always find it hard to find a good fit given my long legs for my height. I think the XL is probably a better size for my 90.5 pbh but I could probably make that 58 fit with stem/saddle adjustments. I'm just unsure I'm ready to start investigating and learning about another brand. If I buy something, I'm pretty set on the Crust LB.

What's clear to me now is that I should sell or trade the Ram just yet. I have limited time these days, so we'll see when I get around to making some of the changes we've discussed.

Max

[maxcr]

Stephen,

I just saw the R559 on VO, thanks for the tip, at $38 it's worth it even if I end up reverting back to my 700 setup.

If I were to go down the R559 path, do I need recessed mount or the traditional nylock nutted mount for the Ram? I never know these things.

Thanks

Max

[MCT]

Max,

If the nut goes into the brake bridge or fork it is recessed.  If the nut sits on the brake bridge or fork, then it is nutted.

Matt in OKC

[Garth]

So it appears Max the Rawland is actually 59cm, center to top, 57.5mm center to center. So it's just shy of your Ram. Not an issue. I compared the two and if someone asked me if it's a suitable fit based on their comparable Ram size, I'd have to say yes.

The Ram is a mere 13mm higher in stack height, center of the BB to the horizontal center-top of the head tube. 

The reach is within 3mm, so negligible . 

The Rawland has a 1/2 degree steeper seat tube angle, which accounts for like 6-7mm more forward placement of the top center of the seat tube in relation to the center BB, but I recall you don't have your saddles slammed all the way back so you have plenty of room on the rails.

Head tube angles are the same 73d and the upsloping TT is within 1/2d. 

BB drop is within 2mm. 

The Rawland link says it's 35mm max tire, 700c. That's a perfectly "fat" road tire.

The trail though is only 29mm, that's 70mm of fork rake ! Wow.

 https://rawlandcycles.blogspot.com/2012/07/nordavinden-geometry-and-specifications.html

Bikeinsights doesn't have images for the two frames, but the numbers alone tells the story.

https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=5c1bfbe96aaa140017a7c684,5c55ee6e40d7a00017e4e2d

[MoVelo]

I've owned both the Ram and Rawland Nordavinden. I sold the Rawland and still have the Ram. The Rawland was nice but the Ram is soooooo much nicer in every way. 

Just my humble opinion

James Poulson

[JohnS]

Hello Max,

Late to the party, but I wanted to share my thoughts of my LB-Canti. I've had it nearly four years now, I had ordered it from the first batch not long after the BQ review. It's been my go to bike for mixed surface and/or long distance rides. The ride quality is very good and comfortable. I've completed one 200K, a few centuries, and a whole bunch of rides that were more than 100K on it with no discomfort. I have two front bags for it, a Berthoud that I use for fall/winter rides where I'm more likely to remove layers and a VO/Roadrunner min-rando bag for spring/summer when I'm caring less gear. I always ride it with one or the other, so I don't know how it handles without a front load. The best thing for me is that any ride can become a mixed surface ride since it's equally capable on paved or gravel roads. 

The only problem I had with is was setting up the brakes. Initially I tried Tektro CR720 which I had good experience with on my QB, but the brake post bosses are closer together on the LB than on the QB so they didn't align properly to the rims. Then I tried old school Shimano Deore XT but they tended to squeal no matter how much I tried to set the toe-in. Finally, earlier this year I bought Paul mini-mottos for the front and touring for the rear to use on my QB, but decided to put them on the LB instead. They made all the difference, the LB brakes quietly now and I have much more confidence going down hills knowing I have more than adequate brakes.

JohnS

From last fall:

A gravel road from that ride:

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

That sounds similar to a prior time they still had discontinued 1" threadless Grand Rando canti forks in the ivory color still listed on the site for an extended period.  They currently still have the newer disc Grand Rando 1" threadless forks still listed but also out of stock.  So yeah, seems they are often just slow to update the online shop with full removal of discontinued items and they got me a few times with sale items such as a drive side only NOS Ritchey triple crank arm in 177.5mm that was listed for something like $10 (that I excitedly thought I'd add to cart as a back-up for my own 177.5 set) and some proto tall stack 26.0 threadless stems only to find they were gone but lingered on the site for quite a while.

Brian Cole

[Applegate]

Hey Max,

I sort of love this dilemma. As much as my platonic ideal of a bike has been shaped by Jan Heine, featuring skinny, thin-wall tubing and a flat top tube, I will definitely back a 650b Ram. I would wholeheartedly recommend MAFAC Raids (or go all-in with the Compass/Rene Herse updates). I have a couple pairs of Raids I'm reconditioning with brass bushings/washers and could probably ship one your way for a reasonable fare. Not the point of me posting though.

I had a V1 XL Canti Bolt for 14 months, using it for randonneuring as well as some gravel rides and mixed terrains touring (with smallish front panniers on a lowrider rack). It was nice to look at and often felt great, but it never really fit me (too long of top tube, seemingly resolved in current geometry). I think I put just over 4k miles on it in that timespan, which is probably the fastest mileage rate of any of my bikes to date.

However, I also got a 62 (so 60 C–C, as it would happen) Rambouillet about the same time, and the connection felt deeper, sooner. It was stripped to the bare steel and was sporting an eccentric genius 650b build, courtesy of @shredportals Lyle. I rode it as a be-basketed commuter and overnighter, and knew the fit and ride quality was something I wanted to hold onto. I asked Erik Billings for a small litany of BQ-rando-style frame modifications (fork re-rake and all), and got new paint and decals from Rick Stefani. It's now replaced my Crust Canti Lightning Bolt as my midcentury French cosplay randonneuring bike, and I was very happy with the more upright fit when I rode it for Paris–Brest–Paris.

This is all subjective and fit-oriented, etc, but I support trying a 650b conversion on your Ram first. It might just be the ticket for great joy; if nothing else, then you have a 650b wheelset for your next bike? The most ideal is if you could somehow have both built up and in your possession at the same time, for some fun back-to-back testing.

Anyway, here are some pics. Yes, I re-sold the Waterford Homer you sold me (great bike though—don't try to 650b that one) Good luck with your process here!

Alex

Berkeley, CA

[Evan E.]

Hi Alex,

Here for your reference is a photo of my Rambouillet with 650b wheels, Tektro R559 brakes, and Pari-Moto 650b x 42 tires. I used offset brake-pad holders on the rear caliper to get a tad more reach. If it turns out you need a bit more reach on your bike, let me know. I still have those offset brake-pad holders.

Evan

San Francisco

[Evan E.]

Oops. I meant Max, not Alex. 

[iamkeith]

Alex, your modified Ram is outstanding.  Probably the most nicest, modified Rivendell I've ever seen.

This whole thread inspired me to wrap up a few things on my own 650b conversion project, an RB-1, and to ride my Ram one last time this weekend.  (It's supposed to start snowing this weekend, so season's over I'm affraid).

Interesting thing about the Ram, that strikes me every time, is how comfortable or "plush" it feels, despite only having 33.33 tires.  I don't understand why.  When it was new, it made "normal" road bikes, with 23 to 28mm tires look positively silly.  As the rest of the industry has caught up and embraced fatter tires, the Ram now "looks' outdated next to a lot of other, newer bikes I saw.  My own tendency is almost always to choose something with fatter tires, too.  But as I said, I'm struck every time by how well it rides and how relevant it still is.  I don’t think I'll ever sell it, even if I have to be "prompted" to ride it once in a while.  I think if I ever felt differently, I'd now consider Alex's example.

[Michael Ullmer]

I'll chime in here that my 650b'd Ram is one of my favorite riding bikes in the stable. I always want to max out tire width as much as possible and was disappointed that 700x35 tires with fenders didn't fit. I had a 650b wheelset and tried 650bx42 and that fit great with room to spare. I've been riding that configuration for a few months now.

It looked like room enough to go one tire size higher (sans fenders). Thanks to a fellow lister I had some 650bx48 Rene Herse Switchback Hill Tires waiting for me at home yesterday after a long weekend away. This morning I swapped em out and they seem to fit just fine. Super excited to try this out later this week! 

[MoVelo]

I've been running my blue Ram with 650bx42 with fenders and can agree with Michael that it is a sublime ride. Very stable and comfy. Good on gravel and multi-use paths. Not super fast but reasonable. Plus P50 fenders fit well with great coverable.

I am running a 650bx48 on the front with plenty of room, I believe i'd have to further dimple the chain stays to fit that on the rear. I don't like what the fatter tire up front did to the handling so I'm thinking I'll switch it back to the 42. 

I was able to run 700x35's without fenders but had to retreat to 32's to fit the fenders in there.

Michael-I am curious what the true width of those Switchback Hill tires is. My experience with RH 650b's is that they seem to run narrow but that could be the A23 rims.

James Poulson

Missouri

[Bill Lindsay]

<Meaningless outlier data point warning>

I recently picked up a 59 Romulus on the list.  I always thought of the Romulus as the "cheaper Panasonic version of the Rambouillet".  I bought it, stripped it to the bones, and built it back up in my own idiosyncratic way.  I built it with 700x38 Gravel King Slicks.  For oddball reasons I won't get into, I'm not riding it on any "rides" of any distance, but I did ride it around the block and it felt weird, and unlike any Rivendell I had ridden before.  It radically understeered.  It was a bad weird, and I normally am not sensitive to this kind of thing.  I swapped the tires out for 700x32 Rene Herse Stampede Pass, and shazam, it felt like a normal bike, like a Rivendell.  

This was two around the block test rides.  I have not reverted to the 38s to see if the bad-weird repeated.  I have not tried 38mm knobbies to see if it has to do with pneumatic trail and a huge slick contact patch.  Once my weirdo reasons for not riding it are lifted, then I'll get out on it more and form a relationship.  I love my build and will give it a VERY thorough shake down before forming any real lasting opinions.

</Meaningless outlier data point warning>

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA

[Drew Henson]

I have been daydreaming about going the opposite direction from the OP. I currently have a v1 lightning bolt that i use for my rambl-y weekend rides and a more recent canti romanceur i use for commuting. I also have a recent sam i use for commuting and errands. i'm thinking about selling the romanceur and, in turn, keeping an eye out for a ram. but i would probably keep it 700c. who knows. 

[Conway Bennett]

I have a Crust Canti-Lightning Bolt, and it's one of the best bikes I've ever ridden.  The most similar bike I have had to the Ram is two Quickbeams, first in a 60, then in a 58--I've sold them both, but I would be unlikely to part ways with the Lightning Bolt unless I upgraded somehow (e.g., Jeff Lyon).  I think the thing about the Lightning Bolt is that is so different than my 650b Hunqapillar that I split my time with--its like going from supportive hiking boots to a pair Vans.  They are both comfortable, just very different from one another.  Because of my experience with the Lightning Bolt, I have been getting more into go fast solo rides, and I will probably try to buy the next 59 Canti-Romulus that comes up for sale.

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I concur with Evan.  I had a 54 cm 650b Ram with 54 mm Hetre/Baby Shoe Pass tires and SKS fenders.  It was as good as my custom bike, except for the toe overlap and dynamo wiring. I used thin profile V-brake style pads to get a little extra reach with the Tektro R559.  That strategy may be able to be combined with the offset brake-pad holders if needed.

Toshi

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[Bernard Duhon]

Careful with offset brake pad’s 

If tires are wide pad my rub on tire

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From: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Toshi Takeuchi <tto...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2023 12:02:58 PM
To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [RBW] Considering trading my Ram for a Lightning Bolt

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAGB59xxyAHSM%2BbuB%3DeKo84iqT%3DUUKSG2J42OQ7HvewE7Ck0k2A%40mail.gmail.com.

[maxcr]

Wow, thank you all for the overwhelming response and for sharing your experience. I love the photos, keep 'em coming!

Matt, thanks for the detail on the Tektros, I ordered a pair but also decided to pull the trigger on Alex' Mafacs (thanks Alex!) to try out the conversion.

Here is what I'll try: 

1) New 700C RH tires - Bon Jon Pass in standard casings

2) Swap out Paul Racers Medium for MAFAC RAID and install 650b Wheels with Loup Loup Pass tires or with Hetres (650x42) depending on what fits

I'm not sure when, but I will get to it... I have too many half baked projects at the moment, including my half-built Gallop on the stand right now, a brakeless Wilbury that will lose its wheels soon and a MMM bubbe with an Xtracycle that also needs a 650b conversion - I hope I can use the Paul Racers directly on the canti posts, I'm not sure if the plate where the bolt sits is removable.

Thanks again to everyone and I'll report back.

Max

[DavidP]

Max - maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent, but while the Paul site does suggest the Racers are designed for direct mounting (the center mount adapter plate is optional),  direct mount centerpulls can't be used on cantilever brake posts. For one the positioning for centerpull brake pivots and cantilever brake posts is different (centerpull pivots are above the rim, cantilever / v-brake posts are below the rim). These days there aren't too many non-custom frames that have centerpull brake mounts, it's more common to use centerpulls with a plate for central mounting like a standard road caliper brake.

-Dave

[maxcr]

Thanks David, that's helpful... you probably saved me some time futzing with the brakes to try and remove the plate.

The idea came from the comments on the the xtracycle 650b conversion post I made on the i-bob list but maybe I misunderstood - they were saying I might be able to direct-mount the brake to the existing pivot posts and get the pads down to the 650B rim. Anyway, perhaps the only real options are Mafac raids which I've never seen IRL but have a set coming my way or to splurge with the Rene Herse centerpulls.

I'm still going to give it a shot to see if I can run a 650b in the back of that xtracycle, but for now the Ram conversion is happening first.

Max

[Roberta]

Here's a post on iBob.  Mark from Beacon,  NY reviews his new Lightning Bolt. You'll need to sign in as a member to read it:   https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/nUQKRYSsyw8

On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:04:51 PM UTC-4 DavidP wrote:

[Max Faingezicht]

Thanks Roberta, I had seen that thread and it's definitely adding to my confusion ;)

People seem to mostly love their Lightning Bolts

Max

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Max Faingezicht

[Eric Marth]

Alex, Lyle's build at the time he sold the Ram is one of my favorite bicycles I've ever seen. It's been fun to see the further mods you've made and watch as you've put it through big brevets and PBP! 

The current setup, paint and spec are superb! 

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 9:50:15 PM UTC-4 maxcr wrote: