Platypus or Clem - Please help me choose

[SeanMac]

Hi everyone.  Happy New Year!

I am the proud owner of a grey Cheviot.  One of the reasons that I purchased that bike was to ride on bike trails near me (such as the Erie Canal Trail) with my wife.  She and I have done a bit of riding together.  However, as I am a more experienced cyclists, she sometimes gets frustrated with me.  Happily, riding my Cheviot has helped me to slow down and enjoy the ride with her.

My wife has been riding a Trek hybrid bike that is at least 30 years old.  I would love for her to get something new for our rides together.  She is on-board with this idea (much to my delight).  A new Rivendell seems to be just the ticket to more quality bike time - for her alone and for us together.  The question, of course, is which model would be the best choice.

Given that I have a Cheviot, a Platypus for her was my first suggestion.  I sense that it rides pretty similarly to my Cheviot - plush, stable and relatively quick once it gets going.  However, my wife was a bit surprised by the price tag of the Platty, and began to focus on the Clem.  When she asked why the Clem was less expensive I spoke about the lugs, but didn't know what else really differentiated the two bikes.  This is why I am reaching out to the group.

I would be grateful if folks on the list who are familiar with both the Clem and Platypus would provide some additional insight into the differences between the two models.  I think that either bike would meet my wife's needs.  However, thoughts on which would best meet those needs are much appreciated.

Thanks,

Sean

Buffalo, NY

[Steve]

Sean, I can't respond fully to your question --  I've not ridden a Clem. I have seen one up close and personal though. RBW describes the Clem as MTB-ish, and the example I saw was an exceptional build; big RH knobbies and polished Paul brakes and levers (I want one just like it!!!).

I find my Platypus to be exactly as Rivendell describes it. Back to your question -- 

I don't know your wife, but here's the thing with the Platypus, if you think she would appreciate a bicycle that she falls in love with all over again every time she rides it, then go with the Platypus!

Steve in Asheville, NC

 if 

[Johnny Alien]

For the type of riding you describe either will work. Since it is for her she should go with whichever speaks to her more. Perhaps a higher price will make her treat it more delicately and perhaps ride it less OR perhaps because the Platy is fancier she will wan to ride it much more. Either way there is no wrong answer as far as quality of product or ride.

[Johnny Alien]

I used the word perhaps a LOT of times there

[Kim H.]

There is another related thread about this:

https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/ho2ri9Tm6jQ/m/mVKYtqAIAQAJ

Kim Hetzel.

[Sarah Carlson]

Can I put in a plug for the Platypus? I've been riding mine on group rides and it's been a delight. The bike is gorgeous. The price took away my breath one time when I made the payment, but I get a little flutter every time I see my bike, and the joy I feel when I ride it takes away any memory I had of the monetary cost.

Sarah

[Doug H.]

Steve,

The black rims, fenders, cables and levers look awesome on your Platypus. Nicely done.

Doug

[a spen]

Sean, I will second Sarah's sentiments about the Platy.  I have owned both and found the Platy to be responsive, agile, stable and an utter a joy to ride, not to mention handsome candy for mine eye. I'm tall and so both bikes turned out to be too low a stack height for me, to my great disappointment. 

The Clem feels more utilitarian to my riding sensibilities. Having said that, I think you might want to consider how much does the quality of the ride really matter to your sweetheart, and I'll use my better-half by way of example. She is not at all a connoisseur of these marvelous machines and would be equally happy with the ride of either bike, and would most certainly be upset with me for buying her the pricier steed if the more budget one was available.  Having said that, it would be awfully hard for me personally to NOT buy her the Platy.

Don't know if this helps or clouds the process, but good luck with your decision.

Al in VA

[Patrick Moore]

Al: Can you clarify what you mean by "more utilitarian"? 

I keep a Clem in mind as a future purchase, and for my use, if the difference with the Platypus is largely cosmetic, I'd choose the more utilitarian model if the ride is as good or better. 

Also, while I've asked this before, I keep forgetting. Riv designs the 59 cm model for "29 inch" tires but the build option page offers 45 mm Kendas (iirc) and 45s are good mostly on pavement in my area. How fat at 700C knobby tire can the Clem take without fenders? How fat a 700C slick tire? Can it take 700C X 60 mm Big Ones?

On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 8:48 AM a spen <tresba...@gmail.com> wrote:

... The Clem feels more utilitarian to my riding sensibilities.

[Patrick Moore]

I meant to add: if a 59 cm Clem can take true 622X60s I might just give up trying to find a Monocog replacement and get a Clem for sandy train riding -- we'll see. Next installment: weird non-deraileur drivetrains for a Clem.

--

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing services

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When thou didst not, savage, know thine own meaning,

But wouldst gabble like a thing most brutish,

I endowed thy purposes with words that made them known.

[Kim H.]

I, too, own a 52cm blue Clem Smith Jr L bicycle. For the record, I run 27.5x2.25mm Racing Ralph tires with Honjo Flat 65 fenders with no problem.

I see my Clem as a A. T. B. It's capable of riding on pavement and off road. The bike is very stable with it's long wheelbase. It is a heavy bike. My bike weighs 44 lbs with my Topeak trunk bag full of my tools and necessities. Despite the weight, I compensate for it very well by having low gears (34/20T rings and a 9 speed cassette 11-40T)

As a senior cyclist, I love the low bar for easy mounting and dismount and the upright riding position.

The 52cm frame works very well for me being 5'11" with a long torso and short limbs. I weigh in at 220 lbs.

Kim Hetzel.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QH338uJ1GGo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgt2hNzKphXCt%3D2iNnH8wnz4KfpLMNMvtjTw5Y3LG9yV7g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Joe Bernard]

I've just bought a 52cm Clem L (I've owned them before) and have a Riv Custom that was designed similarly to the Platypus: lugs, lighter pavement-oriented tubing, long chainstays, low stepover but not a true step-through like the Clem. 

My first impression after hopping off the custom and taking my first ride on the Clem yesterday is they ride remarkably similarly at the mellow-ish pace I prefer. Would I pick the Clem for speed? No, but that's not really my jam and it sounds like your wife rides like me. So my opinion - as a guy whose owned a Cheviot but not a Platy - is the Clem will be a lovely and comfortable ride for her IF you're committed to riding at her pace as you've suggested. 

Joe Bernard

Lake County CA 

[JAS]

I have both a 52 Clem and a 55 Platypus so I'll give you my 2 cents.  I'm 5'7" with long legs and a short torso so both are set up with Bosco handlebars and bars just above saddle height.  I like to sit up and look around; they're both very comfortable riders.  I'm 70 and retired; I ride at an easy pace and set up the Platypus as my "go fast" bike.  (My "go fast" is probably not the same as yours!)  Both bikes take me where I want to go and can haul groceries.  The Clem has a lower step-through, as Joe has mentioned.  Yes, the Platy is lighter and feels more agile, but what's interesting is the way I feel on the bikes.  With Clem, I feel like I'm "in" the bike where as I'm "on" the Platy.  I don't know if it's the difference in size of the frames or wheels and tires (650 vs 700), the other geometric design factors or tubing.  It's just a different feeling.  Both bring me joy!

I often ride the Clem on dirt trails and have knobby tires on it for mud.  The Platy has lighter, slightly more narrow, smooth tires and is mostly for pavement, but I've also ridden it on the same trails as Clem without any problems.  It's a do-anything frame depending on how you set it up.  Platy is more stylish with the swoopy lines and beautiful lugs.  Clem is heavier, but I don't really notice the weight when riding and don't have any trouble lifting it onto my rack.

Here's an idea.....you can buy a plane ticket to Seattle for your wife and I'll take her riding so she can decide!  (There are other Clem & Platy owners closer to Buffalo who would gladly allow her to try their bikes.  Are you going to the Philadelphia Bike Expo?)

Joyce

[Ryan]

Joyce makes a good point about finding a way for your

wife to try both and pick the one she likes best...and

Joyce owns both. One good thing seems 

to be that there is no bad choice

Good luck whatever you decide!

[Kim H.]

I decided to weigh my Clem without my rear trunk bag. My bike weighs 32 lbs with all of four of my empty water bottles and cages, rear rack, fenders and frame pump.

Kim Hetzel.

[SeanMac]

Thanks for all of your responses to my request for information.  I am very grateful.  Steve - your Platypus is gorgeous!  Is the terrain in that picture typical of the kind of riding?

Sarah and Al - you have kind of hit my dilemma.  I have really enjoyed the opportunity to bike with my wife, and I hope to do more of it in the future.  I want her to fall in love with a bike - and I think the Platypus may do that.  However, as she is not [yet] a bike person, the price tag is a bit of a stumbling block.  Joyce, you are very kind to offer test rides.  I wish that were an easy option.  My Cheviot is much to big for her, so my wife can see it, but not actually ride the bike.  Al - I think that she would be happy with either bike, and that either a Clem or Platypus would serve her well.  It is difficult to know which will bring the biggest smile to her fact - which is, of course, the ultimate goal.

Kim - thank you for the link to the earlier discussion about this topic.  I searched the list, but did not do as well as you. 

Thanks for giving us lots to think about.

Best -

Sean

[Tom Wyland]

My Platy with Bosco bars, Nitto R-14, large Saddlesack, tool kit, Dyad wheels, frame pump, dynamo lighting, etc weighs about the same as Kim's naked Clem. So from a weight perspective it's more about the "build and bags" than the frame, in reality.

Tom

[Johnny Alien]

I'm not sure I would call a Clem with 4 empty bottles/cages, rear rack, fenders, and a pump "naked" haha

[Tim Bantham]

Hi Sean, I'm over here near the Albany end of the Erie Canal trail. I've had similar circumstances with my wife. She owned a Trek mixte which she really enjoyed. For years I've been telling her about the magic of Rivendell Bicycles which mostly went in one ear and out the other. She always responded by saying "but I like my current bike".  Last summer a used Platypus came up for sale. I showed her pictures and she was very interested until she saw the price tag. Even used this was too much for her to comfortably pay. Later in the summer we ended up ordering a CLEM complete from Riv. The end result was exactly what I was hoping. Once she experienced the long wheelbase of the Clem combined with the wider tires the difference between her old bike and the new Riv clicked for her. If you are hoping for a similar result I think either bike would be a great choice but I wouldn't overlook the Clem. Hope that helps!

Tim

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 5:29:59 PM UTC-5 SeanMac wrote:

[Richard Rose]

“I wouldn’t overlook the Clem.” Truer words never spoken.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:47 AM, Tim Bantham <tba...@gmail.com> wrote:



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e6aaaf1b-fef2-4044-bb25-13f02a334483n%40googlegroups.com.

[Tom Wyland]

Ha Ha, yeah I never bothered to go find Kim's bike and look at it.  So yeah they're basically the same.  

[Nick Shoemaker]

So true, Richard!

I'm an unabashed Clem-lover (thanks for selling me yours, Al!), but with the arrival of the Complete Platypus, I'd almost certainly pay the extra $500 for all of its extra fanciness/elegance/what-have-you. Prior to these completes, the price difference was almost 2x (Clem @ $2k, Platy @ almost $4k), so I think the Clem's value proposition isn't what it used to be. That said, the Clem can do things that aren't  *as*  possible on a Platy - namely fitting massive knobbies and loading up for multi-day singletrack adventures (read: "bikepacking") - if you want to do these sort of rides, go with a Clem, otherwise, I'd snap up one of those $2500 Platys before the price goes up!

If you want to ride like this, choose Clem...

(FYI Patrick, this is my 64cm Clem with 2.6" (65) front, 2.35" (57) rear with plenty of mud clearance; the 2.6 also fits on the rear without rubbing, but with virtually zero mud clearance)

-Nick

[lucky...@gmail.com]

Damn now I want one, who has a 52 Clem in the Sacramento area I can look at?

-Liz

On Jan 3, 2024, at 11:03, Nick Shoemaker <fiddl...@gmail.com> wrote:

So true, Richard!

I'm an unabashed Clem-lover (thanks for selling me yours, Al!), but with the arrival of the Complete Platypus, I'd almost certainly pay the extra $500 for all of its extra fanciness/elegance/what-have-you. Prior to these completes, the price difference was almost 2x (Clem @ $2k, Platy @ almost $4k), so I think the Clem's value proposition isn't what it used to be. That said, the Clem can do things that aren't  *as*  possible on a Platy - namely fitting massive knobbies and loading up for multi-day singletrack adventures (read: "bikepacking") - if you want to do these sort of rides, go with a Clem, otherwise, I'd snap up one of those $2500 Platys before the price goes up!

If you want to ride like this, choose Clem...

<bsf_1.jpg>

<bsf_2.jpg>

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/648bcf35-a003-4cfa-906f-4a30ed2bc38en%40googlegroups.com.

<bsf_3.jpg>

<bsf_1.jpg>

<bsf_2.jpg>

[Kim H.]

@Tim -

Long live the Clem !

Kim Hetzel.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QH338uJ1GGo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

[Kim H.]

@Tim -

Here's my 52 blue Clem.

Kim Hetzel.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QH338uJ1GGo/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/7a95ed63-0efe-44a2-9420-3711d25d59ddn%40googlegroups.com.

[Pam Bikes]

Leah, aka Bicycle Belle Ding Ding would be a good person to comment since she has both.  I'd go for the Platypus.  I have the precursor which was the Betty Foy and love it.  And it's the follow up to your Cheviot.  Please let her pick out the color.  And all the RivSisters will have fun helping her accessorize it.  Please give her my email if she has any questions.  

[Sarah Carlson]

Yes, did you know when you you get your lady a Riv she has an immediate community of RivSisters? Pam has brought up the most wonderful point!

[Ben Compton]

also if you get a platypus you get to join the platypals, which is a thing I just made up

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/28811c70-7b71-4fa8-9a8d-e2a4685855b0n%40googlegroups.com.

[Roberta]

I've ridden the Betty (new to me), Cheviot and Platypus.  I've also ridden, but just a little bit (like just to get the feel), the Clem L. You cannot go wrong with any of the above.

Platy rides nicer than the Cheviot.  Clem L is more "Cadillac" like.  Platy "seems" faster.  My first Riv was an Appaloosa (more Cadillac than the Platy), and I was thrilled beyond belief with it.  If Leah hadn't talked me into a Platy step thru, I'd have kept it, as it was such a departure from my Specialized Hard Rock., with it's way too long reach.

If her heart is aching towards any one of the above, she should follow her heart--I don't think she'll be unhappy with either bike.  My motto "If I can afford it, I'll buy what I love."

Perhaps there is someone nearby, perhaps she can test ride.  Or, if you're in Philadelphia, give me a PM.

Roberta

Philadelphia

[Kim H.]

...or if you get a Clem, you are welcome to join the Clem Club.

Kim Hetzel.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAMopRjHP4UG8JUe2hXVjMdrTXo7qeEBN9UwewfPCkHiPKQu04w%40mail.gmail.com.

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

 I have weighed in on that thread that was quoted, but I’ll chime in again because my name got mentioned.

 I had both bikes, loved both bikes. But the Platypus is the better fit for me. I like to ride pavement and I do like to go fast, and that’s the sweet spot for a Platy. And, it fits me like a GLOVE. The wife in question doesn’t seem to have a preference, save that she doesn’t want to blow the budget. I surmise the OP would like to choose a bike that his wife might fall in love with and wish to ride more often. The Platy complete is a great deal, and if she’s a 50, they are in stock. And like Pam said, let her choose the color. If she falls in love with the bike you can get the parts she wants later. 

Oh, and give her a special little ornament of some sort. A charm she can hang or an enameled pin to put on her bag. Thoughtful details make us fall in love with the gifts our men give us. 

Leah

[Garth]

Obviously the Platy requires more material and labor for the extended mid tube. Bicycles are long term investments though, so letting a few hundred dollars get it in the way hardly qualifies as a valid reason to dismiss something base don that alone. Get the one that is appealing to look at every day. 

From my own subjective view, the Platypus has an appealing elegance to it with the extended swooping mid tube. Plus the purple accentuates it very well, of which direct sunlight will enhance it even more. 

Complete or build your own depends on if the included parts are agreeable or not. If you have nothing specific to change then they're fine. 

The Clem has a notably longer frame reach than the Platypus, which may only be noticed if you have both. The Platy with it's 50mm max tires is plenty for the type of riding Sean suggested. 

[Johnny Alien]

I stick by letting her pick. She is currently riding a 30 year old Trek hybrid so either one will fit her riding conditions. If she doesn't want to spend the extra cash then the Clem is a fantastic pick. I love mine and personally wouldn't trade it for another Riv (noting that I have a lighter RIvendell as well). But if they both work the only thing in the world that matters is that she likes it. Why talk her into the more expensive ride if the Clem will fit the conditions and she likes it?

[Johnny Alien]

I would also add that if someone forced me to get rid of one Rivendell and live with just one bike it would be the Clem. I think it is the most RIvendell bike ever in spirit. A cushy ride that will go anywhere and is not too fancy. Thankfully no one has made me make that choice.

[Kim H.]

My 52cm Clem Smith Jr L bicycle is my one and only favorite bike. I cannot see myself on any other Rivendell bicycle.

My old road bike has long been retired and no interest in riding it.

Kim Hetzel.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bf8c8fcc-e1bb-4c51-95ad-016e0373e7e0n%40googlegroups.com.

[SeanMac]

Hey everyone.  Wanted to take a moment to close the loop on this conversation.  Earlier today, after much discussion, my wife and I ordered a Platypus!  She snagged a web special - 50 cm in Sergio Green with a triple crank and a Billie Bar.  She [we] nearly pulled the trigger on a purple complete.  However, for a few hundred extra dollars the build put together by Antonio seems to be the smarter purchase.  

All that is left to do now is order a saddle.  I am going to measure the width of a saddle that she has the she likes and decide where to go from there.  Most likely will be a Brooks (B-17 or B-68) or a Rivet (Loveland).  Any thoughts?  I've tried a few Brooks, and currently have a B-17 on my Cheviot and a Berthoud Aspin on my Black Mountain Cycles Road Bike.  I've read a few good comments about Rivet, but never seen or ridden on one myself.

Thanks you all for your suggestions.  They all helped with the decision-making process.

Sean

[Leah Peterson]

I have Rivets! I would love to try the Loveland but only have the Sonora. It’s really great. Mount it level. For some reason the Brooks need a little nose-up, but the Rivets like to be flat.

Leah

On Jan 8, 2024, at 7:54 PM, SeanMac <sean...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hey everyone.  Wanted to take a moment to close the loop on this conversation.  Earlier today, after much discussion, my wife and I ordered a Platypus!  She snagged a web special - 50 cm in Sergio Green with a triple crank and a Billie Bar.  She [we] nearly pulled the trigger on a purple complete.  However, for a few hundred extra dollars the build put together by Antonio seems to be the smarter purchase.  

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4393b909-0aa7-44a9-a11e-17ed4da7590fn%40googlegroups.com.

[Johnny Alien]

Congrats to you and your wife! Thats a killer color too! We shall all demand photos when it arrives.

[Sarah Carlson]

CONGRATULATIONS on the new PLATYPUS! And that Antonio build is a fabulous choice. The Billie Bars are a dream, and if this set up doesn't make her fall in love in riding I don't know what will. I have a B67 on my Platypus. I was riding for a while on the Rivet Sonora which is by far my most beautiful saddle. For me it's a little narrow for the more upright positioning I have on the Platypus. I'm going to try it on my Homer build where the positioning is a little different. Rivet has a great return program... but I can't give it up because it is so pretty.  If they made the Loveland in Ivory I would get it. Meanwhile the B67 feels amazing on lady sit bones, even if it's the spring saddle and I feel a little silly with all the squeaking. There are so many options.... if you go with the Loveland I would be interested to hear back!

And for anyone on the search for a Platypus, there is a Sergio Green 55 Complete at Blue Heron Bikes in Berkeley CA (also a purple 50 complete).

Sarah