Soliciting opinions: help me pick the right Rivendell

[Bud Suttree]

Hi all,

Been enjoying these forums for a while now, with my first post I’d like to lean on the immense collective wisdom here and get some help with picking out the right Rivendell model. I’ve done quite a lot of personal research and spoken to Riv at least once but would like to open things up to the group for general discussion. 

Short sketch of my problem: I love bicycles, but haven’t enjoyed riding them in a long time. I have quite a few, and they all are unpleasant to ride for one reason or another. My priorities are, in descending order: comfort, performance (perceived), utility, price/aesthetics (tie), performance (actual), and at the end would be the ability to do any outer-boundary/end-of-spectrum type activity, riding across the country or racing crits, etc. My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage chipotle, beer, and post office runs. 

Every time I browse the Riv offerings I become convinced I need a different model. I’m thinking maybe the Atlantis would suit me, but I don’t necessarily love the double top tube, and I’d probably be between the 57 and 59. The Appaloosa seems pretty similar, but I’m not crazy about either of the current colors. Can’t say I can tell the difference between that one and the Sam, but I like the Sam aesthetic better. I’m also tempted by the gold Susie/Wolbis, but since I’ll be riding mostly around town, worry that it might not feel as agile as the bikes I’m use to riding do.

That’s the short version — would welcome any takes or opinions. 

Longer story:

Like the rest of you, I love bicycles. A substantial amount of my attention is given to them, day after day, in one way or another. Unfortunately, lately this has not translated into actually riding them very often. It’s a paradoxical state, induced by having too many (project) bikes, none of which I can tolerate to ride for more than half an hour. It’s mostly a comfort issue. FWIW, I am a not unhealthy late 20something male with probably poorish posture from desk-jockeying. I rode an aluminum Cannondale road bike daily for five years, crashed, broke some bones and swore it off for two, then entered this present cycle. 

Economic realities necessitate the need to flip bikes and parts to fund the passion. Maybe you think that’s a dirty trade; most are. I’ve had the good fortune to pick up an outrageously rare old school BMX bike for essentially nothing that should cover a very nice Rivendell build, and hopefully obviate the need to engage in as much cycling commerce. 

Along the way, I’ve acquired an interesting stable:

• 93 Bridgestone RB-1 and MB-2
• Custom 90s Ciocc w/ Columbus EL and Chorus
• 93ish lugged Trek 990
• 1985 Trek 620

and a cache of interesting parts, so it’s not been for nothing, but I don’t like riding any of those bikes. Had (still have?) big dreams for the RB-1, but cannot tolerate the reach. Have tried a bunch of stem/saddle options, no luck. Currently building it up w/ a Soma Highway bar and zero setback post, preliminary fit check not promising. Found a crack in the MB’s fork when I was tearing it down and don’t think I want to invest in it without the biplane fork. The Ciocc’s max tire clearance for Corsas is 23 rear/25 front. The 990 might be all right, and the 620 too, but both need a ton of work. 

I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile. 

Some considerations: 

I miss running errands on my bike. I don’t have as much free time as I’d like, but everyone has to go to the grocery store. I also miss long weekend adventure rides and casual group rides. I WFH, so don’t need an actual commuter. I like the idea of an overnight trip, and have most of the gear I’d need to do it. 

I have two really great handlebar options: the Soma Highway Ones and Ron’s Orthos. I’ve never spent much of any time on bars that weren’t drops, but think I’m leaning towards the orthos for this project. That said, it would be cool if I could use both. 

I want lots of gears. Live in a somewhat hilly town (Nashville) with steep climbs on most of my routes. Getting nearly anywhere usually requires at least some riding on busy streets w/o cycling lanes. 

No local Riv dealer anymore (AFAIK). 

With all that said, of the current offerings, what would y’all recommend? 

Thank you

[aeroperf]

Get a Sam with a 3x9 drive.

Strong enough to do the riding you want, versatile enough for errands and light touring, and very comfortable.

[Tony Lockhart]

+1    I think a Sam with a 3x9 drivetrain and 44mm tires will be perfect for your needs. Great with or without racks, amazing with drops or upright bars, and it looks great. Easy to basket and fender.

[Luke Hendrickson]

I suggest the Atlantis, though I am biased as I have one. I have it on good authority that the last run of them was also the last with a double TT. Moving forward, the Atlantis will have a single TT.

I have racked my bike, unracked it, fendered it, have a BOB trailer for it, commute 150 miles a week on it, climb up huge dirt passes, descend roads faster than I should while in an aero tuck (a little hard given I have a 62 and am 6’6”), and overall just really love it. So versatile, so comfortable, and so pretty.

[Mathias Steiner]

The Sam is certainly a good option.

But I'd be interested in why you didn't enjoy the
>> 1985 Trek 620

which many would consider a grail bike.

If the complaint was "too noodley with a load", step right up to a Sam or heavier.
If it's "too stiff and dead-feeling" then maybe a Roadini -- or maybe Rivs aren't for you, given how conservative they are with tube strength.

Also the Rivendell top tubes tend to be long, to accomodate upright handlebars. If you prefer drop bars and you felt "stretched" on the 620, that's going to be difficult.

I like what you said about wanting a bike for riding, not wrenching, but it's difficult when you can't try the specific models.

If you give us more information, the swarm may be able to help ;)

cheers -mathias

[Johnny Alien]

I like to think outside the box. Comfortable, nimble, useful......Platypus

[Joe Bernard]

"My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage chipotle, beer, and post office runs."

I had a Susie for a short time in a previous life and I really wish I'd kept it, it would have been perfect for the town and trail rides I do now. For the riding you're describing - including a high priority on comfort - I think this distinctive, beautiful and destined to be impossible to find in a few years bicycle would be perfect. 

Or if you can live with the colors and low toptubes, get a Clem L. I have one, it's wonderful. 

Joe Bernard 

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

[Ed Carolipio]

Sounds like you want the OG - the Atlantis. Here's Ron talking about his third Atlantis, which is also the bike he bent the Albatross for to create the Ortho bar:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_0qSPMps48

The Sam is also a good alternative: shorter chainstays and a slightly lighter frame. I don't own one but people report it is a bit nimbler on the trails than the longer chainstay models.

I'd exclude the Clem, the Susie/Gus, the Appaloosa, and the Platypus since IMO they won't work as well with bendy bars with their longish front-centers. I'd exclude the AHH, the Roadini, and the Roadeo since all take caliper brakes which limits the tire widths for off road or unpaved riding.

Good luck and hope you find a bike (Riv or otherwise) that helps you with your bike journey.

--Ed C.

Redondo Beach, CA

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

[DavidP]

"My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage chipotle, beer, and post office runs."

That's about 60/40 pavement/trail, add in the errands and other stuff and it's more like 70/30.

What tire size is ideal for the trails you are riding? What tire size is the minimum to enjoy them? I'd probably try to aim for something in the lower half of that range given the pavement/trail mix and desire for the bike to feel sporty.

If the tire size is less than 2" then that opens up the Sam (48s w/o fenders). If you'd rather have something in the 2" - 2.25" range that's Appaloosa, Atlantis, Platypus territory. Larger than that Clem or Susie.

-Dave

[Richard Rose]

I am curious about the specific nature of the trails you ride. Smooth dirt? Rocks & Roots? Lots of twists & turns? If pretty much innocuous I haven’t much to add to the conversation. But if the trails you ride get a little rowdy grab yourself a lugged Susie (or any Susie/Gus). Truly capable mtb’s and smooth as silk on pavement / gravel. Get yourself a second set of wheels reserved for dedicated pavement rides.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 6, 2024, at 8:58 AM, DavidP <dphi...@gmail.com> wrote:

"My ideal bike would be something that could ride 15-20 miles to the trail and then 10-15 more on the trail. And also manage chipotle, beer, and post office runs."

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[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

“I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile.”

This quote resonates. I hate to see collections of bikes. I love to see bikes that are actually RIDDEN. It’s such a pleasure to see the beausage and personalization on a well-loved bike (do you know Pam Murray yet?). Get what you want, ride off into the sunset and be delighted every darn day after.

I know my answer is predictable, but I think you should consider the Platypus. I have 2 built and am waiting on super specialty parts for a 3rd. I have them all set up differently - they are not a collection; they are all used and loved and ridden. Well, not the unbuilt one, but it will be soon! They are so easy and so comfortable, and if you’ve never had a mixte frame you owe it to yourself to get one. They are so practical that I don’t know why everyone doesn’t have one. Want to load up the back rack and not kill yourself trying to mount the bike? Get a mixte. Want to be able to suddenly stop and jump off the bike, no big deal? Mixte. Want to look dapper and whimsical and romantic? Mixte. I’ve ridden mine on gravel rides. Paved rides. Club rides. Grocery rides. I run errands and shop and I have the best time. There are a million threads about the most famous of the mixtes, Pam’s Rivendell Betty Foy, which has 76k miles on it now and she has been everywhere with it. Planes, trains, overnights, camping, major US cities, middle of nowhere, you name it. I never get tired, it’s a bike I can ride forever.

Get the mixte!
Leah

[Leah Peterson]

On Apr 6, 2024, at 11:34 AM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

“I’m tired of projects. Wrenching is fun but riding is better, and it was never my goal to be a collector of anything. So, instead of trying to make all these old bikes “like” the bike that I want, I’m just going to actually go and get what I want and then be done with it for awhile.”

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[Steve]

Another Platypus recommendation:

[Pam Bikes]

Platypus mixte.  I have the Betty Foy and use it for everything.  As Steve can tell you, I think he likes his alot.  I'm in Charlotte and have a Cheviot you can try.  It's the predecessor to the Platypus so it'd give you an idea.  Everyone who tries the Cheviot says it's the most comfortable bike they've ridden.  I ride mine daily and even if I'm under biking sometimes, it's always up to the challenge.

[Pam Bikes]

Steve - I'm so glad you are enjoying your Platypus.  I've never thought of having black fenders.  They look handsome on your bike.

On Saturday, April 6, 2024 at 1:49:25 PM UTC-4 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

[Eric Marth]

Hi Bud — Based on your description of intended use I'd suggest going with a Sam Hillborne. Put some fun bars on there and a nice front rack and basket (or a good front bag) and you'll be set up for rides and errands. Second place recommendation: an equal tie between an Atlantis and Appaloosa depending on availability and your color preferences. 

If you aren't riding the other bikes you listed and you aren't precious about them (doesn't sound like you are) I'd try and sell them off in the interest of diving the right bike for you, set up exactly the way you want it, that you will ride and love. Better to have one bike you'll ride than a handful that aren't quite right. Just sharing my mindset, seems you're thinking in this direction. 

The Atlantis and Appaloosa are very, very similar bikes. When they were introduced the Atlantis was a Japanese or US-made bike (depending on year and production runs) designed as a capable all-around model, though I think the most handy way to classify it is as a stout touring bike. It can certainly be used for trails and commuting as I can attest, and as Luke highlights above. The Appaloosa was introduced as a Made-in-Taiwan alternative to the Atlantis with a very similar tubing and geometry. I think of the Atlantis & Appaloosa together with a few minor differences, namely paint. Now both models are made in Taiwan. I was set on an Atlantis but switched my sights over to the Appaloosa once I realized I was too short to fit a double top tube model (dreams dashed!). 

The Sam Hillborne & Homer Hilsen are also very similar bikes in terms of geometry and tubing though consensus among the community is that the Hilsen is a bit lighter and more road-oriented. It also has different brake mounting. The Hillborne is set up for cantilevers or v-brakes, the Hilsen is designed around center-pull or side-pull brakes. I believe the Hilsen started out as their "country bike" made in Japan or the US (at Toyo or Waterford) and the Hillbornes were later introduced as a similar version made in Taiwan. 

I think a Sam set up with the Highway One bars could be fun, I have Noodles on mine. A swept back bar is also great. I have the Orthos on my Appaloosa and gotta say they are just insanely wide. Crazy wide! I'd consider something like the Billie bars as a nice, wide-enough, fun, handsome bar that isn't as e x t r e m e but that's just my 2¢. 

I like Keith's silver Hillborne with the Billies quite a lot. If I was building up a new one for your type of riding this is how I'd do it. Billies, dynamo, 2x drivetrain. I'd add a front rack and a Wald 137 attached with Voile straps for easy versatility. And max out the tires with some 48s! 

We are wishing you all the best as you whittle your decision down.

Eric

[Jason Fuller]

When this question arises, regardless of the circumstances we all tend to recommend the Riv that we have - which makes sense, since they are all fantastic and highly versatile bikes, plus we probably bought the one that best suited our own preconceptions. 

In that light I will wholeheartedly support the Hillborne. It's long versus old road bikes, but it's not long. I've said it many times already but I'll say it again; it is the most perfect evolution of the all-rounder in the lineup in my opinion. The tire clearance isn't huge, but you can fit as much tire with fenders as makes sense with fenders; and you can fit the same size tires we used to MTB on without fenders. I can't imagine being unhappy with the Hillborne. It works great with drops, flats, or swept bars (but not the super swept ones - Albatross is perfect on it).  The rear end is long enough you can fit panniers without heel strike, but short enough that it still feels road-ish in its manners. It can be loaded to the gills for a big tour, but it doesn't feel wrong when completely unloaded. 

I will always own a Hillborne, I'm sure of this, and that's the only bike I can say that about.  

[Erik]

Evening, 

Based on the parameters and details you provided, I think that a Hillborne or Appaloosa would work well.  Or an Atlantis instead of the Appaloosa.  I have all three, all set up very differently, but each has gone through a lot of iterations.  The key for me would be what type of trails you are wanting to ride, your size, and trail riding style.  The Hillborne is a great bike, fun on the road and pretty nimble on the trail.  The Hillborne has a smaller tire width max and lighter tubes.  The Appaloosa or the Atlantis are longer and have stouter tubes.  They also take up to a 2.2 tire.  I've run both as primarily trail bikes and they handled pretty much anything I wanted to ride except for the most extreme trails in my local parks.  They work really well as trail bikes.  I've run them with 1x 11 (50 large cog) set ups, 3 x 9  with 11-34 cassettes, and now as 2x.  I live in northern California and do a lot of climbing.  The gearing has always been fantastic.  My Appaloosa was my primary commuting bike for about five years.    

Here's my Instagram if you want to get a look at some of the set ups that I've used over the years.  It's mostly bikes: https://www.instagram.com/lith.o.carp.us/

Hope that helps!

Erik

On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 5:43:49 PM UTC-7 Bud Suttree wrote:

[Jason Glenn]

Hi, Bud, 

I'm sure this has been posted at some point in the past, but I stumbled upon this the other day and thought it might be of interest both to you and others on this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yx83uMhIgKA

Otherwise, for what it's worth, I think the suggestions above are great.  Based on your intended use, I would agree with those who suggest the Hilborne.  Don't have one, but had the good fortune to ride one for several weeks -- thanks, again, Max! -- and loved it.  If I had to downsize from my Homer and my Atlantis to a single bike that would suit the purposes they serve for me — long road rides, commutes, on and off road, etc. -- it would be my choice.

Best,

jason

[Tim Bantham]

I am a current Sam Hillborne owner. Like Jason Fuller said this is the bike that I'd never sell. I love it so much and it does everything that I need it to do on both paved and dirt roads. That would be a top pick based on your planned use case. I recently expanded my stable of Riv's to include both a Platypus and an A. Homer Hilsen. Based on my current offerings the Sam is the one I'd reach for if I plan to ride mostly dirt roads. I have 44's on it which makes it a great gravel bike. Also the chainstays are long without being super long making it a very stable descender. I've tried every handlebar configuration you can imagine and they all worked great on the Sam. I currently have it set up with wide drop bars and a short 5 cm stem. It rides great with this set up.

My Platypus is going to be my all arounder, grocery getter, bike path rider and maybe even an s240. My AHH is my dedicated road bike with 38's but I wouldn't hesitate to ride it on dirt if given the opportunity.

I would suggest the Sam.

[Michael Morrissey]

I ride an Appaloosa but if I had to pick another Rivendell I would just call it a day and buy a Clem. 

In the car world, people joke that Miata is always the answer, and I feel here a Clem is always the answer. 

[Roy Summer]

First, I would love to buy your Ciocc if it was a 52-54 and I didn’t already have 5 bikes I ride and 1 to sell (1994/5 Bontrager rebuilt for road). Second, although I don’t own a Riv, I do own a mostly original X0-1 (the precursor to all Rivs). It seems to be the best all around choice as it works for fast road riding as well as longer, hillier rides. I think the moustache bars combined with lighter road tires (I use Michelins that are no longer available, but read on for a suggestion) work really well (other bikes are drop bars and I often think X0-1 is best). So, my suggestion would be an Appaloosa or Atlantis with Albastache bars, gearing of your choice, and, if possible 26” wheels with Panaracer Pasela Protite 26x1.25 folding tires (light; flat resistant; fast on the road; wide enough for light off road/gravel; daughter rides them in NYC). And, yes, I understand the color issue and the dual top tube thing. Finally, strip the RB-1. It’s not safe. And if you want my Bontrager we can talk (but it won’t fit you and your Ciocc won’t fit me, so what’s the use).

[Greg Sonstein]

There is a lot of overlap in the Riv lineup. Most bikes can handle any road, paved or gravel, even the Roadini (though I would not buy it for off roading, it will take a 42mm tire which is plenty big for going on dirt). The Homers, Sams are more roadie than the Appaloosa, Atlantis and Platypus but can also easily go off road and take racks, fenders, and carry a decent load. The only difference between the Sams and Homers is really the brakes (v brakes/canti v. caliper/centerpull). Sams take a slightly larger tire, maybe 50mm over 48mm for the Homer. If you really want one bike to rule them all, I would get the Appaloosa or Atlantis, they are the same bike, take big tires (55mm), take heavy loads. Most people will not even notice the difference in the weight or stiffness. Also the longer chainstays make the ride more plush. Platy is just as useful and comfortable but the design is not for everyone. Clem is basically a cheaper Susie. Also the colors change every year so this years Apps will not be tbhe same as last year. 

• February - Clems
• March - Lugged Susies - kind of a new model
• April - Roaduno bikes and frames - new model
• May - Sam Hillbornes
• June - Appaloosas
• July - Platypus bikes and frames
• August - Charlie Gallop, nu model, bikes and frames, more info later
• September - Roadini