WTT my Clem L for your Cheviot

[Dave Redmon]

I have a front hub motor and 36 volt battery installed on a 52cm Clem L. It's a nice rig but I had to locate the battery on top a rear rack and handling is not as stable as I'd like. A 55cm Cheviot looks like it has plenty of room for a battery low and centered between its top tube and downtube. Any comments on the suitability of a Cheviot as a modest e rig? If interested in a trade please contact me off list.

Dave in Kansas
aCheviot wanting to trade for a Clem L?
Dave in Kansas

[Joe Bernard]

I can verify a battery fits perfectly on a Cheviot. The only drawback for me was the caliper brakes, but that was my fault for putting a monster mid-drive kit on it..the damn thing was as fast as a small motorcycle! Your kit should be fine on one.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yY2z12rdpbrShbT9

[Dave Redmon]

Thanks, Joe! Three Qs:

1) What better brakes would you buy for the Cheviot if you wanted better stopping power? 

2) What is max tire width--with and without fenders?

3) What is the step-over height for a 55cm Cheviot? IOW, how much higher than a Clem L?

Dave

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 1:50 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can verify a battery fits perfectly on a Cheviot. The only drawback for me was the caliper brakes, but that was my fault for putting a monster mid-drive kit on it..the damn thing was as fast as a small motorcycle! Your kit should be fine on one.
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yY2z12rdpbrShbT9

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[Patrick Moore]

This thread, along with the consistently very positive reviews of Clems and Cheviots and other "cruiser"-type Rivendells makes me think about buying one of these long-stayed, upright Rivs with an electric motor of some sort, particularly as I progress ineluctably toward senility; perhaps a elegant Copenhagen wheel?

I myself put fewer than 200 miles on my old car between a mid-January 2020 oil change and mid June -- this is not virtue, this is simply a very quiet life and several bicycles and living near things; my daughter, Covid-ed home from college in mid-March, put another ~1,200 miles on it between 1st May and mid-July.

But for those days when it is windy, or rainy (I have Sou'wester hat and rain cape and spats), or when I want to carry big loads, an electric bike may be a real option, and if this bike retains something of the "feel" of the best Rivs I've already owned, then all the better.

With that windup, will you-plural post photos and descriptions of your electrified Rivendells? And tell us how much they can carry, and how you carry it?

Thanks. 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:50 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can verify a battery fits perfectly on a Cheviot. The only drawback for me was the caliper brakes, but that was my fault for putting a monster mid-drive kit on it..the damn thing was as fast as a small motorcycle! Your kit should be fine on one.
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yY2z12rdpbrShbT9

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and to those who have the relevant experience: taking into account nighttime riding, large and heavy loads (I mean Costco shopping for 1, maybe 2), and rainy day riding: what is better, an electrified Clem/Cheviot/Joe/whathave you, or a real electric moped?

[Joe Bernard]

Short answer now for Patrick, I'll work on Dave's Cheviot questions later: You're going to need a factory built ebike/moped/scooter for rain riding, I can't recommend any bolt-on kits for that. DIY mounting of motors and batteries and exposed wires is strictly dry-day territory.

[Robert Blunt]

Patrick,

I agree about buying a purpose built ebike rather than a kit. I have lots of bikes, including two ebikes. I like them a lot, but I like them because they are well designed and built for specific purposes like hauling large loads etc. I have a Riese and Muller Load which is a front loading cargo bike which has replaced my car for many things. I had parathyroid disease which caused a great deal of muscle atrophy so the pedal assist helped me become strong enough to use my regular bikes after a while including my Sam and my Soma Grand Randonneur. Just my two cents.

Best,

Rob Blunt

Pennington, NJ

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[Robert Tilley]

I agree that a purpose built e-bike would better suited for your use.  Xtracycle has some nice cargo e-bikes and Surly now offers an electric Big Dummy. I own a Tern S00 and I love it. It rides well even though it's made to fit a wide range of people (one size fits most) and it hauls almost everything I would care to carry on a bike. I do like the Xtracycle cargo platform better but the Tern takes up a lot less space in the garage.

I also really like the Bosch system. It does feel like riding a normal bike but with Lance legs instead of my puny legs. I have over 2,000 miles on mine since I picked it up late last year and have had no issues at all.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

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From: bert...@gmail.com Sent: August 7, 2020 12:35 PM To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Reply-to: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Electrified Rivendells

Oh, and to those who have the relevant experience: taking into account nighttime riding, large and heavy loads (I mean Costco shopping for 1, maybe 2), and rainy day riding: what is better, an electrified Clem/Cheviot/Joe/whathave you, or a real electric moped?

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 1:20 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

This thread, along with the consistently very positive reviews of Clems and Cheviots and other "cruiser"-type Rivendells makes me think about buying one of these long-stayed, upright Rivs with an electric motor of some sort, particularly as I progress ineluctably toward senility; perhaps a elegant Copenhagen wheel?

I myself put fewer than 200 miles on my old car between a mid-January 2020 oil change and mid June -- this is not virtue, this is simply a very quiet life and several bicycles and living near things; my daughter, Covid-ed home from college in mid-March, put another ~1,200 miles on it between 1st May and mid-July.

But for those days when it is windy, or rainy (I have Sou'wester hat and rain cape and spats), or when I want to carry big loads, an electric bike may be a real option, and if this bike retains something of the "feel" of the best Rivs I've already owned, then all the better.

With that windup, will you-plural post photos and descriptions of your electrified Rivendells? And tell us how much they can carry, and how you carry it?

Thanks. 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 12:50 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can verify a battery fits perfectly on a Cheviot. The only drawback for me was the caliper brakes, but that was my fault for putting a monster mid-drive kit on it..the damn thing was as fast as a small motorcycle! Your kit should be fine on one.
 https://photos.app.goo.gl/9yY2z12rdpbrShbT9

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

--

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Patrick Moore

Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

[J Imler]

I love my dyno’d, big Wald, double tt’d, mid-drive kitted Eppaloosa. There’s some heat shrink tubing on the connectors, I wouldn’t hesitate to ride in the rain. Costco runs are cake with a trailer. I got a “ride’m Cowboy!” on the way to pick up naan the other day.

[Joe Bernard]

Cheviot answers, which will be vague because I don't have it anymore:

1. The braking problem was because of the power of the motor, not an actual brakes problem. That ridiculous 1500W kit needs v-brakes or discs.

2. I used 650B × 41 Fatty Rumpkins. I never tried full fenders but I'm fairly confident that's the size limit for running them, I don't know how big a tire would fit without.

3. My very rough estimate of standover (I had a 55cm frame) is 69-70cm, which was noticeably higher than my 52 Clem L.

[Joe Bernard]

Speaking of Cheviots..if you don't buy one soon then keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming Platypus. It's going to be a Cheviot with v-brakes and more tire clearance, would make an excellent eRiv me-thinks.

[Robert Blunt]

I agree with Robert about the naturalness and quality of the bosch systems. They are very intuitive and are very dependable with a wide service network.

Best,

Rob

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[Dave Redmon]

Patrick, in the abstract I admire how you appear to be handling your shopping and leisure riding via cycling. To me, cycling is the highest and best form of transportation. However, only occasionally can I claim to be a part of that.  

You asked for a photo, so attached is a likeness of my sturdy and reliable Clem L with Tubus Tara front pannier racks installed but not in use right now. I've put more than 400 miles on this front hub driven (250-500W) rig over these past few months--about evenly divided between leisure riding and running errands when I sometimes carry objects such as library books and produce from our community garden four miles away. But truth be told, Patrick, we increasingly rely in Amazon (very mixed feelings on that, btw) for many goods and on our 2015 Prius for grocery shopping and most out-of-town trips to see family and friends. and larger items. 

I like what's left of the Rivendell "feel" on my cluttered Clem L but I now wonder if I would not have done better (and paid a bit less) by choosing an aluminum framed Aventon Pace 500.*  At age 76, I miss riding my earlier Bridgestone bikes--although I 

do manage 5 or 10 miles of mostly level, joyful riding on my MIT Sam Hillborne about once a week.

It's surprisingly hilly in Manhattan, Kansas and hereabouts and gosh it's nice when my puny legs suddenly feel a steady surge matching my pedal strokes when I need it most. With a 36V 14.5 Ah lithium battery, I have a range of 30-35 miles--more if I coast downhill or turn off my motor and just pedal for awhile.

Re the Copenhagen rear wheel unit, I too was attracted by its clean look, but I was taken aback by its lack of a throttle and relatively low range. At intersections and in other tight places I rely on a quick hit on my throttle to get me up to speed and out of harm's way.

Just my .02

Dave Redmon

* https://www.aventon.com/products/aventon-pace-500-step-through-complete-bike

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[Dave Redmon]

Joe, I thought I read something about the Gen 2 Cheviot having V brakes and other mods. Not true?

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 4:40 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Speaking of Cheviots..if you don't buy one soon then keep your eyes peeled for the upcoming Platypus. It's going to be a Cheviot with v-brakes and more tire clearance, would make an excellent eRiv me-thinks.

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[Joe Bernard]

True. Sorry if my post wasn't clear, the Platypus will have v-brakes and more tire clearance. It's going to be awesome!

[Mark Roland]

Are Bosch systems even available as kits, or do you need to buy a bicycle with the Bosch system?

If you can't get the various Bosch systems, what are folks finding reliable and moderately easy to install for pedal assist with some torque for hills (Asking for a friend. Seriously. Not that I am against them per se, but just don't need one right now.)

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[Robert Tilley]

I believe you need a frame that accepts the Bosch drive since the bottom bracket needs to be able to fit it. So retrofitting a Bosch drive to a standard frame isn't possible as far as I know.

Robert Tilley

San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device

From: absolut...@gmail.com Sent: August 7, 2020 5:28 PM To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Reply-to: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Electrified Rivendells

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[Joe Bernard]

My experience is with the Bafang BBSHD mid-drive system you see in my Cheviot pics, and its moderately less powerful cousin BBS02. Pedal assist and throttle, fairly straightforward to install if you're a competent wrench..if you can pull and replace cranks and bottom brackets you can do this job. Mine were reliable.

[Dave Redmon]

I have components from Grin Technologies in British Columbia. The Bafang front hub is their lightest geared unit, which is connected to their  controller and their Cycle Analyst V 3 "dashboard".  Power comes from lithium ion 36V 14.5 Ah made by EM3ev. The do offer decent support via email inquiries.

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[Jason Fuller]

Huh!  I live within a short walk of Grin Technologies and this is the first I've heard of them. 

Jason in Vancouver BC 

[Dave Redmon]

Small continent! Enjoy your discovery.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020, 9:18 PM Jason Fuller <jtf.f...@gmail.com> wrote:

Huh!  I live within a short walk of Grin Technologies and this is the first I've heard of them. 

Jason in Vancouver BC 

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[Robert Blunt]

Robert is right. Bike designers have to design the frame around the Bosch drive system shape so it is never offered as a kit. Most people who are interested in mid-drive systems (systems which help you pedal from the bottom bracket area) as kits, use the bafang mid-drive motors which are available in a variety of power levels. Hub motors are a different animal and aren't as effective in climbing plus changing the tire on a heavy wheel hub motor can be a pain. But they are generally cheaper and pretty reliable.

Best,

Rob

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[Patrick Moore]

Thanks very much, all of you for the variety of thoughtful opinions -- praise for variety and praise for thoughtful (and praise for replying!). I have read over and will go back and peruse the replies.

This is all thinking out loud for now, as I have 2, possibly 2 1/2 bike projects in the works, the biggest of which probably won't materialize until well into next year (new fork for new Chauncey; fix, easy or complicated, to get more fender clearance under seatstay bridge of old Matthews (this is the 1/2; this has 60 mm tires almost 30" tall), and full refurbishing of Libertas frame, after which it needs parts. But as you know, my lead outs are years long.

I fondly recall these from home leaves passing through France. I doubt they handled like a Riv, though.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 1:20 PM Patrick Moore <bert...@gmail.com> wrote:

[maxcr]

I bought a Copenhagen Wheel earlier this year, but that bike isn’t getting used much - less than 75m on it according to the app.

To be honest, I think it was a bad case of upgradeitis- I didn’t need the electric assist, but it seemed cool. I don’t have an outlet where I store my bike, so that’s also a problem.

I might consider parting with my wheel or I might put it on my wife’s commuter - send me a PM if interested, but please note that it would be next month at the earliest since I’m not home right now.

Max

[Mark Roland]

So what I am getting from this discussion is, dedicated ebike, get one with Bosch drive. Converting a Rivendell, one of the Bafang mid-drive systems offers pedal assist with enough power to be useful on hills, etc., is not overly complicated, and has good technical support, appears to be a going concern. Joe, better on a Plat or a Clem L?

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[Dave Redmon]

Max--

26" or 700 Copenhagen wheel?

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[Joe Bernard]

Mark,

I think the Clem L is a great platform for the juice, but as Dave alluded to it can be tricky to fit a battery on the toptube (where the bottle cage bolts are) because they're often the longer than the amount of real estate there. An ePlatypus would be great.

[Dave Redmon]

Joe, where can I see photos or renditions of the Platypus bike?

On Sat, Aug 8, 2020, 1:06 PM Joe Bernard <joer...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mark,

I think the Clem L is a great platform for the juice, but as Dave alluded to it can be tricky to fit a battery on the toptube (where the bottle cage bolts are) because they're often the longer than the amount of real estate there. An ePlatypus would be great.

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[maxcr]

700C