Running a Mark's rack/basket....AND a handlebar bag?!?!?!

[Ben Mihovk]

Hey all!

I recently set up my Atlantis with a Mark's rack and medium Walk zip-tied to it. I double strutted the rack and have the Irish strap connecting the tombstone to the bars (Chocos). 

I have an x-small saddle sack that I love and was offered a matching one at a great price. I love the way the x-small sack looks/fits on my handlebars, but I'm having some serious issues figuring out how to strap the tombstone for support while having a handlebar bag.

One solution I might have is to strap the tombstone to the headtube horizontally. I did it a minute ago and looped the Irish strap a bunch of times and tightened it up. Is this good enough for supporting the rack if the tange fails? Will the strap on the frame rub off the paint or top/clear coat? 

Any ideas on how to have both a Mark's rack and x-small handlebar bag are welcome. 

For what it's worth...I don't plan on ever exceeding the 4 pound recommendation on the rack. I've used it to carry my 3 pound laptop and charger (with a Captain Hook), to grab a 3 pound bag of groceries, etc...I may push it to a six pack of beer, but I have a rear rack and panniers if I need to carry anything heavy. 

Thanks!

Ben

[Ben Mihovk]

Here's a photo of what I'm thinking about doing with the strap and head tube...

The strap is looped through each side of the tombstone twice...once through and around the head tube on the opposite side, and then once though the inside of the tombstone and back on the same side of the head tube (if that makes sense).

It's snug...but my two concerns are...

1. it won't stop the rack/basket from crashing into the front wheel if the rack fails (I'm not a physics person...but I'm guessing there's more holding power vertically than horizontally)

2. The strap is going to dull up or rub off the paint on the head tube.

HOWEVER...as I was typing this, I found this...

https://13507435628737481763.googlegroups.com/attach/26c66c05ba4e4/IMG_1683.JPG?part=0.2&view=1&vt=ANaJVrEq-9QnruTkMcmxuNN9WRRDupm4Sh5lxv-I6NA_WVq9zMoW7YG8PJm6dkg0zmWGvc0jPMXrF4yVRs-NP2B3aA4xDxxQ3P78klLrAgHSI79Llf-AOr8

It looks like lashing the tombstone to the head tube has been an option for at least Soma and their "Manny Strap". I'm guessing I'm okay with it the way I have it.

Right? 

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

No, not ok. that's going to have ill, very ill, or maybe very very very ill affects on your steering when it's even remotely snug (it could tighten up at will). You're looking for a failsafe, not something to actually do anything until it's needed. You might try a fairly loose loop of paracord or heavy shoelace, just long enough to not catch or bind, but not too long or it'll get into your brakes and wheel. Tying off to the handlebar is straightforward because it moves with the rack, headtubes don't so keep it loose[ish]. And to keep it up and out of the moving bits, consider tying off to the horizontal top bar of your basket directly in front of the tombstone, that way it won't want to get fussy with your headset.

Have fun!

-Kai

[Ben Mihovk]

Holy smokes I didn't even think about steering! I've just been tinkering in the basement and haven't hopped on the bike to try any of these configurations.

So just to be clear, you think if I do something loosely connecting head tube to tombstone, it'd work okay as a failsafe? 

I appreciate it!

Ben

[Ben Mihovk]

Actually...even better, you mentioned the attachment doesn't need to do anything until it's needed...would there be any issue using the irish strap to handlebars connection but keeping it loose enough that it just goes behind the bag? That might be my best move. 

[Ben Mihovk]

Okay...I think I've got it sorted out.

I have two ways of going about this...

Here's my first attempt to run the strap around the bag...

There's a lot of slack and I'm a little worried that if the loaded rack fails, it will still tip forward because the bag will give if the strap is pulled forward. If I tighten up the strap much more than I have it here, it digs into the bag and seems kind of silly.

I think this is how I'm going to go with it.  I like that the strap is behind the bag and doesn't dig into it even though the strap is pretty taught. I looped the strap around the stem before connecting to the tombstone and tightening. I think this is as solid as I'm going to get.

-Ben

[spencer robinson]

I have a rack, basket and handlebar bag on my Sam. I do not have a strap on my basket, I do check all the mounting nuts and bolts when I clean and lube. I always have an Irish or full spectrum strap in the stuff I carry, then if I find a cool thing or 2 at a yard sale or carry home a 12 pack, I run the strap over the bag, from the stem, over the bars and to the front of the rack. Many times the heaviest thing I have in the basket is the coffee kit and a sweater.

[Ben Mihovk]

Yeah...for the little I'm carrying in the basket, I'm probably being overly cautious insisting on trying to find a permanent place for the strap. 

[Brian Campbell]

Why have the bag there at all? 

[Ben Mihovk]

Fair question! I was offered another x-small in royal by a member here at a great price and I LOVE the one I already have. Perfect size for my roadside tool kit, a tube, and a pair of gloves. I'd love a second bag for my phone, keys, wallet. I don't NEED this bag on the front, but I like how it looks and am going with it, 

[Bill Lindsay]

Ben is taking on the very worthwhile task of trying to insure he doesn't have a rack failure that causes him to fly over the bars.  

The cases where this CAN happen is on a rack with three points of attachment.  If the crown attachment fails, and the rack pivots around the fork blade attachment points and hits the tire.  If the tire is knobby, and "grabs" the rack, pulling it harder down onto the tire, then this locks the front wheel and flips you over the bars.  This is what we want to avoid.  It has happened a few times and it's really bad for the rider.  Here's a questionnaire about the situation:

1.  Does your rack have a welded-on metal tab, designed to allow you to attach a headlamp or reflector?  If YES, that's worse (more likely to send you over the bars).  If NO, that's better (less likely to throw you over the bars)

2.  Does your bike have fenders?  If YES, that's much better (if the fender makes it impossible for your rack to ever hit the tire, then it can't possibly lock up the front wheel).  If NO, that's worse.

3.  Do you run knobby tires?  If YES, that's worse (knobs can grab the rack and lock up the front wheel).  If NO, that's better.  

What I see on Ben's bike is that if the diving board fails, the rack will pivot forward onto the fender.  The fender will rub the tire, make noise, and slow Ben down.  I don't think it could possibly lock up the front wheel and throw Ben over the bars.  

I recommend that Ben unbolt the diving board from the rack and loosen the bolts at the mid-fork braze ons so the rack does pivot downwards.  Convince yourself that the rack will land on the fender and the fender will press on the tire.  That's a brake, but it's not a self-energizing launcher.  

If Ben convinces himself that's the worst that could happen, I'd recommend that a failsafe could be to replace one of the two diving board to rack bolts with a very long one, run through a spacer and through the fender itself.  Bolt the rack to the fender, and the fender will act as the failsafe for a failed diving board.  No strap needed.  

Bill Lindsay

El Cerrito, CA  

[Ben Mihovk]

Bill,

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough response. 

1. Yes, it's got the metal tab.

2. Yes, it does have fenders. I believe the tab on the front of the rack would hit the tire in front of the fender, but I'll experiment to be sure.

3. No knobs...Shikoros. 

I'm pretty happy with the strap positions that I've found, but I'll look into attaching the rack to the fender with a long bolt and spacers if I can convince myself the tab of the rack will hit the fender in a diving board failure. 

I really appreciate the ideas, Bill!

[S. Greco]

I think this setup always looks a little crazy but definitely works great when you need to carry lots of things.

[Ben Mihovk]

I like the way it looks on yours and mine!

[Andrew Letton]

One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet: I would be afraid that a strap that runs around the head tube, as you have shown, would abrade the paint and edges of the headbadge, especially when the strap picks up a little road grit/grime. If I wanted to run a strap, I would wrap it around the bottom of the stem, right above the headset, which rotates along with the fork/rack so there would not be any tendency to grind up the pain job.

cheers,

Andrew in Sydney

[Andrew Letton]

Doh! Just shows how carefully I'm reading this thread. I see now that you expressed concern for the paint in your initial post.

Your concern is well founded. Bikepacking bag straps regularly abrade paint. Some people wrap the contact areas with heavy duty clear tape ("helicopter tape") to protect their paint.

cheers,

Andrew

[Eric Norris]

I guess I missed this the first time, but it looks like the strap is there to keep the rack itself from bouncing around? I ask because I’m amazed that the rack would have that much movement. 

I see you’ve zip-tied the basket to the rack, so the problem isn’t with the basket moving around?

If the strap is to keep the *basket* from moving, and the rack itself is stable, then I would use some thick zip-ties between the basket and the “tombstone” part of the rack.

--Eric “Just Wondering” Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[David Person]

A Pfeifferhorn handlebar bag from Lone Peak works well with a Wald 137 on a front rack.  Not sure why you feel the need to strap the tombstone to the head tube since you have the rack secured to the brake mount with the metal strap.

[Ben Mihovk]

Okay...I think this saga is coming to an end! :)

To answer a few questions...

As Bill stated, my aim in strapping the tombstone to the bars/stem is to make sure that in the case of a failure of the diving board the rack/basket doesn't tip forward into the wheel and send me over the handlebars. The Mark's rack does not have a strut that extends vertically down to the front drop out (I guess I could do that, though...) so there is the possibility that the diving board fails and everything tilts forward, especially under a load.

Here's my best solution so far...

Running the strap through the leather loop keeps the taught strap from deforming the bag. I kind of like seeing the strap on the arm of the stem as I ride. 

Bonus...in testing out where the rack would hit if the diving board failed as Bill suggested...I loosened the bolts on the fork, I took out the bolts from the diving board, and much to my chagrin, I couldn't get the rack to move forward into the wheel. I tugged on it pretty good, too! I then realized that the tombstone was still attached to stem. So I took that as confirmation that if the rack fails at the diving board, the strap in its current position will keep it from crashing into the wheel.

I feel good about this. As the strap is merely a failsafe in case of failure of the rack, and I have a good amount of gap between the tab on the front of the rack and the tire, AND the fact that I will be absolutely rigid only carrying the NITTO's weight suggested weight limit on the rack...I think I'm good to go!