Susie's Limits

[Paul Clifton]

This trip gallery was posted to the bikepacking forum on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/vpan76/plenty_of_good_times_a_broken_frame_rowdy/

I don't know the riders or anything, but the gallery shows what I think are 3 Susie/Gus bikes and one other bike I don't recognize. There's an orange Susie hauling about a gallon of water, a full front basket, and a massive saddle bag. It's frame cracked.

I'm usually one to scoff at load limits, but I guess at some point, they're to be taken seriously. I'm glad these guys were able to get the frame fixed and finish their trip. It looks like a really good time!

But still, I thought y'all would be interested to see what it takes to break a Susie. As a chronic over packer and heavy person, I'm even more glad I picked the Gus!

Paul in AR

[Wesley]

Huh, I wonder what happened! Reddit jumbles the comments based on upvotes, so it's pretty tough to find information. Do you know how he broke the downtube? It seems weird to me (not a frame maker, designer, nor engineer) that it broke in the middle rather than near one end.

[Paul Clifton]

None of the comments mentioned any specifics, and I didn't pose the question. The Reddit poster isn't the Susie owner though. I also think it's a weird break, but I know basically nothing about what makes a frame break.

Paul

[Ryan Frahm]

Wow! I’d fully expect the top tube to fail first. When I called Riv, I  was recommended the Susie at my 170lb weight. I did fail to mention that I tow my daughter in a burley trailer, I was just excited by the bike. 30lbs would be a lot of gear for me on the bike, but I guess I better not get rowdy towing her… Makes me a bit more nervous of my choice now. Definitely interested to know rider and gear weight. 

[Joe Bernard]

From the product copy at Rivbike: 

"It’s like the Gus but for riders under 205 pounds and who promise to ride them with loads of 25lbs or less, and no jumps or canyon-crossings."

The original weight max was even lower, that bike isn't intended to do what that rider was doing. 

Joe Bernard 

[brendonoid]

Originally it was 160 pounds, one of the main reasons I didn't jump on the first batch. Over six foot that was a very low weight limit and it made me nervous. Somewhat Ironically, photos of this exact bike made me think, actually I'd be fine.

I rode down the stairs to the underpass on the weekend, I wont do that again. Surprise surprise, Grant knows his bikes best.

[Ryan Frahm]

I did tell them that I ride semi aggressive and would be bikepacking, I just don’t do any big jumps. They still told me Susie at my weight. So I’d imagine there was some other factors for that break. But I guess I’d be crazy loaded if I got over it 200 total with me and my camp gear. 

I can say that it rides smoother than anything I’ve ever ridden, I wonder if the Gus truly has that same ride. I only have 60 or so miles on it and it has been mostly bike path. We’ll see how it goes when I get a chance to take it on some real trails!

[Eric Norris]

I find the weight limits very interesting. Rivendell has always marketed their bikes as the “anti-racer” or “not light” alternative to wispy aluminum and carbon bikes. Selling a bike with a weight limit most of us would exceed seems strange. A max of 160 pounds implies to me a bike unlike what I would expect from a company that urges us to take their products, load a bunch of stuff on them, and ride on unpaved trails to an overnight campout. After all, if I put 10 pounds of stuff on the bike, I can only weight 150 pounds myself?

Am I missing something?

--Eric “Heavier than 160 Pounds” Norris
campyo...@me.com
Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy
YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[Wesley]

Well, they do offer the same bike in a version that will support a heavier rider. But I agree that people who fit the largest sizes are going to be flirting with Susie's weight limit even before adding gear. For instance I've got a 93cm PBH and weigh 190+, so I wouldn't be able to put much on a Susie and keep within the limits.

-W

[Wesley]

All else being equal (especially tubing size - which, maybe it's not the same across sizes?), the larger size will be less strong than the smaller sizes, while generally having a heavier rider. I am very curious what the rider did to break his bike and I am also very happy to read that he has apparently shrugged it off and seems to derive some satisfaction from the repair.

[Richard Rose]

I have been thinking about this a lot lately in preparation for the trip I am currently on with my Clem. I have about 30lbs. of gear including the racks & 3 water bottles. Pretty evenly distributed f/r but perhaps biased towards the front. Bike handles good. Hope it’s ok.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 5, 2022, at 6:15 PM, Wesley <brooks...@gmail.com> wrote:

All else being equal (especially tubing size - which, maybe it's not the same across sizes?), the larger size will be less strong than the smaller sizes, while generally having a heavier rider. I am very curious what the rider did to break his bike and I am also very happy to read that he has apparently shrugged it off and seems to derive some satisfaction from the repair.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/83544226-52a4-46fd-9e8e-8bf30b9eec6dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Karl Wilcox]

Top tubes may be a good idea for loaded touring.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/623BAA89-0EF4-42AE-8113-717F13515EFC%40gmail.com.

[Wesley]

My understanding is that Clem has been built heavily to take a lot of abuse. Have fun, and let us know how it rides with a touring load!

-W

[Joe Bernard]

I've owned a Susie and several Clem Ls, the Clem is notably stouter. Ain't nobody breaking that frame. 

[Gill]

Yeah, I second what Joe said. The only thing I’ve managed to break on my Clem is a nipple and it took a concerted effort of dumbness to do that. That bike is bulletproof. 

[Paul Clifton]

The 160 limit seems extremely low, and has definitely been pushed successfully, which I reckon is why they raised it to 225-ish. I suspect having room for beefy tires encourages people to really put a bike through its paces, which may have influenced Grant's conservative load limits. It's like Nitto saying a rack will only hold 5 lbs because they know people will put 15 lbs on it, but people would probably put 40 lbs on it if they didn't say anything, and some people still do.

I think I remember something similar happening with the Sam. When it was introduced, it was "not intended for loaded touring", but people loaded it down and toured on it anyway, and Grant adjusted his thoughts about what it was capable of. That behavior may have also led to the second top tube. But this is all conjecture on my part.

Either way, I'm not really surprised that a Susie broke, and I still think it's unlikely anyone is going to break a Susie just riding along ...

Paul

[Johnny Alien]

It should be pointed out that no one knows whether the break had anything at all to do with loaded weight. It could have been run over by a car for all we know. (Unless someone read through that thread and determined what happened)

[Tim Baldwin]

That's my frame that was repaired. I had noticed a little extra flex riding into camp the night before and inspected the bike in the morning. It cracked around the water bottle boss. The tube did not crack in half or anything. I was able to ride the bike to the auto repair shop 5 or so miles away. I think someone else has photos of the crack. I'll post if I find some. I was more concerned with getting my frame fixed so I could ride the Big M trails. I almost made it to the trails on a trip four years ago and was taken out by pink eye. I did not want to miss out again. The shop may have gone a little overboard on the repair but it got me on the trails and back home. I covered it up with some sparkly nail polish to pretty it up and keep rust away.

As to the cause of the crack, hard to say. I weigh 150 pounds. I do carry a lot of water but the rest of my setup is pretty light. I doubt it's over 50lbs with water. I've had the frame a year and some change but it's been on a month trip on the west coast, two week trip on the east coast, local campouts, grocery duty and daily commuting. It's definitely been put to the test. I plan to keep riding it until something else happens...

Nothing lasts forever, enjoy the ride!

[Paul Clifton]

Hey Tim,

Thanks for the details! That definitely looks like a trip that was not to be missed. IMO the full story makes the frame failure even more interesting. It sounds like it did did it's job admirably for a lot of miles. Cheers.

Paul in AR

[Eric Daume]

Probably too late now, but it seems like this is something that could be a legit warranty claim. I can't see a use mode breaking the down tube around the middle like that, and it's suspicious it happened right around the water bottle boss.

It's great Tim is going with the flow. I'd be frustrated if this was my $2k frame.

Eric

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[Brian Turner]

I see three 64oz bottles and what appears to be a 36 or 40oz bottle. So, if they were full of liquid, and accounting for the weight of the bottles themselves, you're looking at approx. 20 lbs. just in that area of the bike alone. I'm no engineer, but that seems like a lot of excess weight to me - for a bike that has specific stated weight limitations. It also looks like he's carrying 1.5 - 2x that amount elsewhere on his bike. Is it an excessive amount of stuff? Who's to say. Whenever I'm riding, I'm typically bikepacking. The last 5-day trip I did, my entire gear weight (including bags + water) was less than 25 lbs.

[Brian Turner]

I'm guessing all those heavy containers filled with liquid (presumably) concentrated in that one central area of the frame created a lot of flex and stress compared to all the weight up front and on the rear. I bet that thing was flexing like crazy with every pedal stroke. I tried to find it, but it reminded me of a photo posted on one of the Riv blogs a while back of an orange Susie that was loaded down probably more than any other bike I've seen in my life - it even had a skateboard stowed on it. I remember thinking when I saw it, "I'm not sure that frame was meant to carry that much weight"... and it looks like the guy who broke his frame was loaded down similarly.

I like to load me bikes down, and I occasionally ride some rowdy terrain with heavy loads. That's why I went with the Gus!

[Johnny Alien]

IMO if the weight difference between a Susie and a Gus is as small as Rivendell says and there is no ride difference as stated by Rivendell and this is really a problem then they would only sell the Gus.  The Susie is still a robust frame. I think most of the "get this if you weigh less" marketing is just to make a similar frame desirable to people that don't do the tough stuff but like the look of it. With a rider at 150 I would think that should not have been too much weight on that frame. But I literally know absolutely nothing about frame design.