Cameras for Biking

[Deacon Patrick]

I've no longer a mobile phone and thus no longer have the incorporated camera and it's happy ability to take a burst of photos after a set delay of 20 seconds or so. Kai kindly recommended Sony, and in my research I ended up finding the simplicity of mirrorless, which presumably means heartier (I'll test that!), then, in looking for older models that do what I want so I don't pay for all the latest bells and whistles, I found Olympus' Pen E-PL8, which is long in the tooth and thus happily under $300 with lens for a step uyp from a point and shoot or adventure camera. I have it coming, along with a better tripod and a leather case. I plan to carry it in my XS Saddlesack handlebar bag.

Curious what folks going digital, who are into photography are doing/using. I love the simplicity of the mobile phone, but miss the qualities and settings of a higher end camera. It seems there are the point and shoots (not many as mobile phones do this), adventure cameras, which are a step up but still feature shy without spending a fortune, and then the higher end cameras (recommendations for ones that are weather proof and heartier?).

What do you like, not like about what you are using? How do you haul it, use it, etc?

With abandon,

Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

www.DeaconPatrick.org

www.CatholicHalos.org

www.ShepherdsandHalos.org

[eddietheflay]

i use the Panasonic ZS100, the predecessor to this model: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-zs200-tz200 

it is as complicated as you want it to be or can simply be point and stupid like me. i think this and the Sony RX are considered the best in the class of camera. when i take it on the bike it fits easily in this: https://www.revelatedesigns.com/index.cfm/store.catalog/Cockpit/MountainFeedbag

the camera is so much more capable than i am and it is like learning a foreign language and practicing in order to efficiently use all the manual controls.

i think the beauty of the cell phone for photos is the large high-quality screen where you can easily compose and appreciate a nice photo immediately.

[Nick Payne]

When I go touring, I take my phone and a Sony RX100 (I've had the RX100 original model, then the RX100 IV, and now the RX100 VII). The cameras in phones are now good enough that most of the photos I take are with the phone, and the Sony only gets used when I need the extra reach afforded by the zoom lens. The Pixel 4 phone I have actually has a two lens camera with the equivalent of 27mm and 50mm lenses, and it stacks multiple images to achieve the final photos it produces, but the Sony has a 24-200mm equivalent zoom.

Nick

[JAS]

Patrick,
I switched to mirrorless about 4 years ago from a digital SLR. I selected the Fuji X-T1 and have been really happy with it. It’s light and is weather sealed. It takes various lenses, though I find the 18-55 kit lens very useful, especially when cycling. Of course, Fuji has now come out with 3 newer versions...they recently released the X-T4. The analog style knobs for changing the shutter speed, ISO and exposure compensation really appealed to me. I can quickly change settings without having to wade through multiple menus and frankly, I love the classic look. If you learned on a film camera and understand the relationship between aperature, shutter speed and ISO, you will have no trouble using the analog dials. If not, you can always set it to auto and let the camera make the adjustments. Oh and yes, it has a timer you can set for a delayed shutter release.

Since the X-T1 is now the oldest version of the camera, one can find them on Craigslist for about $350. It’s a terrific camera. When cycling, I carry it cross-body on it’s strap, tucking it behind my left side. It sits atop my waist-pack without trouble. If it’s raining, I will put it into the pack.

Though it’s technically possible to shoot it with one hand and some folks do while riding, I always stop and use both hands. Carrying the camera cross-body allows me quick access while on my bike.

—Joyce

[Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY]

I recommended Canon before. Sony's great, but they're $$$$$.
This one is good, and you can collect lenses, and if you crunch it by accident it's not the end of the world.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1321345-REG/canon_eos_m5_mirrorless_digital.html
-Kai

[Tom Wyland]

I consider myself to be someone who likes trailing-edge reliable tech. I spent many years happily snapping away with my canon film SLR. I’ve had various iterations of Canon digital SLRs.. some even use my 15-year-old lenses.
I bought a Samsung mirrorless camera years ago and even put aside my DSLR for travel. The mirrorless is smaller and just as nice as my DSLR.
The newest iPhones with the multiple lenses and portrait mode take photos only rivaled by full-frame cameras. I’ll carry around a $700 camera all day but bulk at a friends $9000 full-frame camera kit.
Your results may vary.

Tom

[Christopher Cote]

I bought an Olympus E-M10 Mark iii camera last winter, and have already acquired a little collection of lenses, including the "prime trio" of 17, 25, and 45mm F/1.8 (35, 50, and 90mm equivalent in 35mm) lenses. I love the image quality, real "bokeh" (as opposed to the fake bokeh you get with fancy phone cameras these days), the normal and short tele perspectives, which are refreshing compared to the overabundance of 24-28mm equivalent phone camera pictures you see everywhere. I like the ability to shoot with manual settings, and the built-in Olympus art filters.

I know film camera (please don't call it analog) shooting is all the rage these days, but digital is so much cheaper and more convenient.

My primary outlet for photography these days is instagram. You can look me up @cj.biker there.

Finally, I think the Micro 4/3 format is brilliant. It doesn't match the image quality and light gathering of full-frame, but the smaller size and tremendous quality lenses for the price more than make up for it, IMHO.

Chris

[eddietheflay]

the big question is what will you do with the photos. many of us simply send them via the net to people we know or post on websites. how important is radical picture quality when looking on the average phone or tablet, or desktop monitor.

i too bout an EMIII a couple of years ago and realized photography was not going to be like my "all in" biking hobby, so bought great point and shoot...and it still sits a lot cuz me still gots me phone...which is with me nearly 100% of the time.

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 12:49:31 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Christopher Cote]

Yes, phone cameras are awfully convenient, and I always have mine on me. I will admit that I have a hard time combining cycling and photography. When I'm riding, I want to ride. If I want to take good pictures, I need to be focused (pardon the pun!) and patient. I find that difficult when riding. Also, I can drop my phone in my pocket, or a pouch I keep on one shoulder strap of my Camelbak when mountain biking, and it's instantly accessible. If I have to dig out my E-M10 from a backpack or saddlebag, it usually doesn't happen. I have an Outer Shell camera strap that works well for casual road rides and easy trail riding, but not for my favorite type of riding, non-Rivendell style mountain biking. You know, the kind with "body armor", suspension, etc.

I do enjoy it when I can successfully combine cycling and photography. I took a wonderful ride a week or two ago with my Atlantis and E-M10 on some back roads, and took the time to make some nice (IMO) pictures.

Chris

[eddietheflay]

then a next question is if you shoot digital, how much if any post editing does one do?

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 12:49:31 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Steve Palincsar]

On 6/8/20 8:51 AM, eddietheflay wrote:
> then a next question is if you shoot digital, how much if any post
> editing does one do?
>

In my case, always and ranging from minimal to extensive.

--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

[Eric Norris]

Deacon:

Have you thought about carrying your old cell phone? Or buying a used phone? Even without a SIM card, the cameras on phones still work. You can transfer the photos via Bluetooth or WiFi, or by plugging the phone into your computer. 

You can pick up a very nice used phone (especially Android phones) for very little money. Do that, and you’ll get the benefits of computational photography (using the power of the phone’s processor to create better photos) at a low cost and in a very slim package. Other pluses:

-Huge screen to compose shots

-Long battery life (with no SIM, you’re not running the phone’s cellular radio, after all)

-Will still run apps to edit the photos on the phone if you like

Just a thought.

Eric “Film Photography” Norris

On Jun 8, 2020, at 4:12 AM, Christopher Cote <christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Scott Calhoun]

I really like compact mirrorless cameras, and currently use a Panasonic Lumix GM5. At the time I bought it a few years ago, it was the smallest interchangeable lens mirrorless camera on the market (bar of soap size body). It has a solid feeling mostly metal body and the quality of construction seems great IMO. Panasonic makes a Leica that looks almost identical, so I consider this a poor man's Leica. I suppose the Leica has different software or some other tweaks, but I don't really know. There might be something smaller now. It uses the micro 4/3 system lenses. I have a couple of primes that are nice for cycling. One complaint is that the stock lens it comes with, a 12-32mm, has to be rotated about an 1/8 of a turn to be in shooting mode--if you shoot while riding, this is a problem. For that reason, I purchased a couple of primes: a Lumix 20mm 1.7 and an Olympus Zuiko 45mm 1.8. The 20mm lens is good for all around landscape and street shots and cycling stuff--Zuiko 45mm is excellent for portraits. 

I've also owned the first generation Fuji x100. I loved the quality of the images and the film simulation modes, but the large size of the body and really bad UI (not the manual controls, but the digital settings). 

If I was buying again today, I might consider the Lumix LX100 2 with the non-interchangable zoom. I find I don't change my lense as much as I thought I would. Paul Brodek is really up on the Lumix line and cameras in general so I hope he weighs in. 

Cheers,

Scott

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 12:49:31 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Scott Calhoun]

Forgot one important thing when choosing a cycling camera. A few years ago I did a long tour carrying a fixed lens Nikon with the little leaf-like plastic lens cover that opens and shuts when you turn the camera on and off. I kept the camera in a small relevate bag on my bars. I found that the lens cover would stick and not open and close fully when the camera got jostled around, got debris in there, etc. Same for another Sony I owned. For that reason, I prefer a camera without any lens cover that you can screw an ND filter onto and not worry about a lens cover or cap. If you are less rough on your cameras, this might not be a problem, but for me, the odds of some peanut shell or oatmeal duff getting lodged in that lens cover mechanicism has proven high. 

Scott

[aeroperf]

I use a Panasonic Lumix LX-3.  See my posts in “Just Pics from Your Good Ride Thread” for examples.
It has a very good Leica f2.0 lens and auto stabilization, thank goodness, because it is tough to take a good photo from a moving bike.
It only weighs 9.5 ounces.  I post process with the Panasonic correction application that takes out lens aberrations - pincushion, etc.
I carry it with the strap around my neck, shortened so it doesn’t swing into the handlebars.  Like Scott, I don’t use a lens cover on the ride.

My wife carries a Canon EOS Xsi DSLR with an EF-S 17-85 lens.  It weighs 2 pounds 5 ounces and she has to stop and use both hands for a good shot - it is stabilized but too heavy for a one-hand shot.  That said, her photos are visibly better than mine.

I have not had great luck using a phone.  So it stays in the bag on the back of my bike, in case of emergency.

[Nick Payne]

I said earlier that I travel with a phone and Sony RX100 as my cameras. I've just had a look back through an album of photos that I put together after our last European tour in 2018, and the great majority of photos I took using the phone. A lot of that is convenience, as it's a waterproof phone and sits in the map pocket of my handlebar bag - I also use it for navigation. So if I see something to photograph while riding, I can grab the phone and take the photo in a couple of seconds. About the only place where I consistently used the Sony was when photographing the world championship races in Innsbruck, where the burst mode and superior focusing capability of the Sony came to the fore.

Album here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/B2RriY2XXGPfh6VaA

Nick

[Michael Morrissey]

I love Micro four thirds! Get the Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens. I get so many compliments on my photos from it. Just like Rivendell bikes, on paper, looking at the technical specs only, micro four thirds cameras don’t seem that great. They’re not technically “the best.” But, when you get your hands on one in real life they’re way more fun than you expect. For real life use, they’re just inexplicably more practical than any other option.

Good call with the Olympus. You’ll like it a lot.

M

[EricP]

Another vote for the Sony RX100. Even though I have a mirrorless camera, more times than not I grab the Sony. It just works for me. The one big downside is the small form can get slippery. Added a grip to mine. In general will keep it on automatic and just use it without further thought. Mine is the first generation. The newer ones have more features (like viewfinder) and are more expensive. 

All the other suggestions are also good. 

Eric Platt

St. Paul, MN

[Glen]

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:

What do you like, not like about what you are using? How do you haul it, use it, etc?

With abandon,

Patrick

I was in the market for a smaller travel camera earlier this year and after a week of analysis paralysis settled on the Lumix GX9 with the kit 12-60 zoom and a 20mm f1/7 prime. 

As I narrowed the choices down the Sony RX100 would have been my 2nd choice. They both get great reviews.

Sadly haven't hauled it many places yet but will keep it in a Pelican box for river trips and in a small padded bag while biking. 

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I love the micro four thirds system too.  I'm a fan of the Panasonic GX line (small form with built-in viewfinder).  I have the GX1 and then upgraded to GX8.  It peaked there with the weather resistant body and was downgraded with the GX9.  The 20mm f1.7 lens is fantastic.  It has a great walk forward and backward zoom :) and is perfect for most things except wildlife, which may flee by the zoom actuation.  I use an old Lightroom (before they went subscription) with RAW images to get lossless exposure control.

Toshi

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[Deacon Patrick]

Great info, lads and lassies! Thank you!

I'm delighted to hear fans for the mirrorless system. Today's ride in 3" of snow, with clumps and powder blowing off the trees as I took photos, reminded me of the experiment this is. To get weatherproof mirrorless is pricy, so my choice to go with the Olympus trailing edge tech in the hope it works, but also with an eye on an adventure camera (yeah, that's a thing .. weren't all cameras adventure cameras back in the day? Sardonic grin.): Olympus Tough TG 6. Time will tell.

On the tripod side, I was delighted to find that Velbon still makes them, still in aluminum, and basically the same as I used for years but somehow misplaced. My GorillaPod fell apart to the point of unusable: the plethora of ball and socket joints just doesn't hold up to abuse well.

With abandon,

Patrick 

On Sunday, June 7, 2020 at 1:49:31 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:

[Karl]

I have no recommendations for you, but huge praises for being able to shed your cell phone. You are an inspiration Deacon!

Karl
Nash, TN

[Robert Tilley]

I also really like the Sony RX100 but I don't believe it has the timer functions the OP wants. I had the original version but mine finally died due to poor packing on an off-road tour last year. I picked up a replacement of the basic version since I didn't want to spend the $$ for the upgraded model. I like mine enough I didn't even look at what else may be out there now when deciding to buy a new one.

Robert Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my BlackBerry - the most secure mobile device

  Original Message  

Karl
Nash, TN

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[Augi]

I think the most important part of carrying a camera is how easy it is to get to.  I drop it into my stem/bar bag so I can pull it out at anytime.

https://www.outershelladventure.com/shop/7826r9hyzpjknnobe479ebu35yse8v

When I used to pack my camera in a real bag, I noticed I got too lazy to get it out and in a jersey pocket doesn't work for me.  I get too sweaty.

[Rob Klurfield]

Leica M8 with Canon 35 f2 LTM and Leica IIIf with 50 f2 Summitar (Legacy Pro 100 B&W film). Good to go. Also had a couple of tangerines in there.

 

[David Hays]

Nice cameras. And I love the Gordy’s strap! Very Bobish.

On Jun 9, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Rob Klurfield <pklurf...@gmail.com> wrote:

<IMG_4592.JPG>

Leica M8 with Canon 35 f2 LTM and Leica IIIf with 50 f2 Summitar (Legacy Pro 100 B&W film). Good to go. Also had a couple of tangerines in there.

 

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<IMG_4592.JPG>

[Eric Norris]

Amen! There’s a design concept called “friction” that seeks to make things as easy as possible (for instance, “Buy It Now” buttons on web sites). For me, this is directly applicable to photography while riding: If I have to do more than about three things to get to the point where I can take a picture, it’s too complicated and I find that I don’t even try. 

Basically, I like a camera that I can 1) reach into the bag and grab, 2) turn on/activate, and 3) put to my eye and shoot. Steps 1 and 2 should be possible without looking at the camera. Depending on the circumstances, I may just “aim” and shoot without using the viewfinder.

This is why I don’t like using my phone (other than the risk of dropping it). Getting the darn thing unlocked and then loading the camera app *or* pressing on the screen in the right place to start the camera is just too complicated and requires too much attention.

This is also why I’m trending toward auto-focus, auto-exposure point-and-shoot film cameras. I love rangefinders and have a bunch of them, but unless I set the focus and hope for the best, they’re not useful to me for bicycle shooting … unless I’m willing to stop, focus, meter (for cameras like Rob K’s Leica iii), compose, and shoot.

These days, I likes cameras like the Olympus XA-4, which allows me to zone focus and just point (wide angle lens makes it easier to aim). I also have a few 1980s-ish point and shoot cameras like the Yashica T3 and Minoltal HiMatic AF2 that are easy to use and do everything but push their own shutter button. Most of these cameras even load and advance the film automatically. I find I take more pictures when I carry these cameras.

This is based on almost 40 years of cycling photography. I started shooting pictures of rides in the early 80s, using disposable film cameras that by coincidence met the ease of use characteristics that I became aware of years later. 

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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[Christopher Cote]

I don't know what phone you're using, but with my Pixel 2, double-pressing the power button brings up the camera, even if the phone is locked. Pressing the - volume button takes a picture. Easy to do while riding. Most of the other phones I've owned allow similar shortcuts to bring up the camera app.

Chris

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[Eric Norris]

iPhone. I can activate the camera from the lock screen by pressing on a screen icon    Still involves looking at the screen and long pressing on the right spot, which is too hard to do while riding. 

–Eric N

On Jun 11, 2020, at 12:46 PM, Christopher Cote <christophe...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Rob Klurfield]

David, thanks. The Gordy's works well.

On Thursday, June 11, 2020 at 1:13:12 PM UTC-4, David Hays wrote:

Nice cameras. And I love the Gordy’s strap! Very Bobish.

On Jun 9, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Rob Klurfield <pklurf...@gmail.com> wrote:

<IMG_4592.JPG>

Leica M8 with Canon 35 f2 LTM and Leica IIIf with 50 f2 Summitar (Legacy Pro 100 B&W film). Good to go. Also had a couple of tangerines in there.

 

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[Paul Brodek]

Late to the party again. And a little rusty re: current camera market as I'm 3mos into covid furlough and expending energy elsewhere. I also have very little knowledge/experience/depth re: newer multi-sensor/multi-lens phone cams. I'm sure there's a lot you can do with them, but given the size of the sensors, I'm not sure how they'd stack up against a camera sensor 10x bigger with a good, fast prime lens. In general:

Whatevs: A good eye for subject/composition/color/etc/etc beats technology, for the most part. The camera/stove quote is on the mark. And anything you use is better than nothing.

Film vs digital: Whatever floats yer boat, I suppose, though digital certainly is handier, and post-exposure is a zillion times more flexible. I suppose if you get your film scanned and work from the digital files, you've got your flexibility back, but how much do you have to pay to get a scan from a neg that's going to match the native output from even a midrange digicam?

Sensor size/generations: Bigger sensors are better, more detail, less noise, more flexible files. But sensor age/generation matters as well, so a 5yr-old full-frame sensor might not hold up all that well against a very recent APS-C, M43 or even 1-inch sensor. As far as certain parameters are concerned. My 1st-gen Sony A7 full-frame with a 85mm f/1.2 lens shot wide-open is gonna give me better subject isolation out of the camera than any smaller sensor can, no matter how recent the smaller sensor. 

Point-and-shoot vs SLR/Mirrorless: P&S for compactness, bigger camera/sensor for better image quality. With the sole exception of the Panny LX100, which has the same sensor size as Panny's mirrorless bodies. Interchangeable-lens cameras obviously also give you lens choice/flexibility.

Mirrorless vs DSLR: Mirrorless all the way. DSLRs are dinosaurs after the meteor hit---their days are numbered. And unlike the dinos, they have little reason to exist any more. But I am prejudiced.

As for my faves/recs:

Point-and-shoot: Panny LX100/LX100II wins over Sony RX100 any version: if the bigger size isn't an issue, LX100 has a significantly bigger sensor, much better viewfinder and very nice set of analog controls. You're limited in telephoto reach, though, only 75mm, so if you need more, RX100vi or vii, whichever goes to 200mm zoom. Just know you're getting that zoom at the expense of lens maximum aperture/speed, and smaller sensor means less detail, more noise, less flexibility.

M43: GM5 is still the emperor for small size packing a big punch. I do like the newer GX85, and the even more recent GX9 for better vf, handling, quicker af and better sensors, but they are bigger.

Fuji: If you like the idea of the XT1/2/3/4, take a look at the XT10/20/30. Same generational sensors, still significant analog controls, significantly smaller. The viewfinder is also smaller, which is a negative, but the smaller overall body size can make up for that.

Bigger: If you want detail and soft backgrounds and all that stuff, there's no real substitute for full frame, fast primes and lotsa pixels. I'll sling a Sony A7RII and 85mm, 90mm or 105mm prime in a Think Tank MindShift 15 bag if I'm shooting bike pron. If you ain't sufferin', it ain't art.

Leica M8 & IIIf: Holy Hannah!

Paul Brodek
Hillsdale, NJ USA

[Deacon Patrick]

Aye, Eric, friction between riding and photo is a thing. For me the equation is complicated by the technical trails I ride, necessitating a mirrorless camera be in a protective case inside my bike bag. But, because of a number of factors, the form fitting leather case I got is not usable with the tripod I use (detachable plate conflicts with the case), so I have to remove the camera in case from the bike bag, then the camera from the leather case to take shots. Haven't found anything on the market that addresses these issues, short of a direct mount tripod, but I've not seen or looked hard for one equal to the Velbon EX-Macro. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1007229-REG/velbon_ex_macro_ex_macro_aluminum_tabletop_tripod.html?sts=pi&pim=Y

The good news, for me, is when I want to take pictures, I'm remote, and it's relaxed, so the extra friction is just part of using more purposeful gear.

With abandon,

Patrick

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[Eric Norris]

Deacon:

Your photos speak for themselves. Keep doing what you’re doing!

--Eric Norris
campyo...@me.com

Insta: @CampyOnlyGuy

YouTube: YouTube.com/CampyOnlyGuy 

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