BB splines slight small?

[Joe Bernard]

I found a problem on my A/R I've never seen before. I'm trying to remove its cartridge BB with what look like the normal 20-spline pattern on Shimano, Tange, etc. bottom bracket cups. But two tools I've tried are slightly too big in diameter to slide into the splines. Do I need a different tool?

[Garth]

That's no fun Joe !   Do the bearings have any marking on them to identify the brand ? I know Tange does. Do you know anyone or have nearby a shop with tools that you could see if they fit ?   Sometimes these tools are not up to spec., at least I've found that with Park.  There's only the one tool type for that spline pattern. I recently had a Park cassette tool I had purchased years ago and never used, I went to use it and it was slightly too big to fit, definitely out of spec. I bought an IceToolz and it was perfect. I'd buy an IceToolz, Unior or Pedro's before I'd buy another Park. 

[Christopher Cote]

Any chance it's got a Phil Wood BB in there? If so, you'll need the Phil Wood tool. Possibly two of them when you go to reinstall. Easiest way to tell is if the non drive side cup doesn't have a shoulder outside the BB she'll like a Shimano or Range would have. In other words, both cups look the same.

Chris

[Joe Bernard]

Ah, there ya go, Christopher. I've never seen a Phil BB live in person, but this is an original Riv A/R so of course it's a Phil!

My issue is I need a smidge more spindle on the drive side; these BBs have an adjustment for that, right? Do I need two Phil tools to do it?

Btw, the title of this thread should say "slightly", not "slight". Whoops.

[George Schick]

IIRC, the instructions for mounting a Phil BB say that you can move the BB cartridge a couple of mm in either direction to adjust the drive line, but if a greater amount than that is required you should be using a BB with a different spindle length.  And yes, it's much easier to mount one if you have two of their tools instead of just one, but you can get by with just one if necessary.

[Joe Bernard]

Then two it is, I probably shouldn't try to weasel out of an extra $18. It'll probably put me over the free shipping threshold with Riv anyway cuz I need Paul Thumbies and isn't it amazing how much you can spend on a used bike that was complete when you bought it?? Sheesh!

[Bill Lindsay]

If the task on hand is to remove a Phil BB, take the frame to a mechanic with the tools and pay him/her a few bucks to remove it. Why buy tools that you’ll never use again?

If you are keeping the BB and intend to use it long term you should celebrate the opportunity to buy more tools. That’s fun!

When I needed to do it I borrowed the tools from Missing Link, but I worked there and I get ex-member privileges.

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito Ca

[George Schick]

Installing a Phil BB even with two of their tools can bit mentally challenging.  A run of the mill cartridge BB like an IRD is no problem because the drive side has a lip - so you just tighten it the recommended amount of torque and move to the other side.  BUT, since the drive side of a BB shell is reverse-threaded and the fixing cups of a Phil BB are lip-less, you're pulling both wrenches in the same direction to tighten, which is counter intuitive. 

[Joe Bernard]

Now I'm confused. I need to shift the spindle to drive side about a millimeter..do I need two wrenches at once, or can I loosen one side at a time? Oy, I have no clue how Phils work.

[George Schick]

If all you want to do is move an in-place BB over a bit you can certainly get by with just one wrench/spline tool.  Just keep in the back of your mind the fact that the drive side is reverse-threaded and you loosen by turning clockwise. Loosen drive side/tighten opposite side in small increments.  Phil recommends using a thread locker like Loctite on their fixing cups so it may turn with some difficulty (kinda interesting how they recommend a thread locker where others - the kind with a lip - recommend using grease).  And again IIRC, their instructions say to tighten to around 20 ft/lbs so as not to overload the bearings.

[Joe Bernard]

Ok that makes sense. Thanks, George!

[Joe Bernard]

Riv is amazing. My order shipped 15 minutes after I ordered it! 👏👏👏

[Bill Lindsay]

...”operators are standing by”